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Winning Time, the Story about Lakers Dynasty on HBO

recruitsreadtheseboards

recruitsreadtheseboards

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The first episode was last night. It is absolutely fantastic. John C Reilly stars as Jerry Buss who was buying the Lakers from stodgy Jack Kent Cooke. Anyone my age will love, if you are an NBA fan you will love it. It also shows you how low the NBA was on the American sports totem pole, it was lower than the NHL is now believe it or not.

It chronicles how Buss managed to get the money to buy the Lakers. The Lakers won a coin flip to get the #1 pick. And Magic Johnson was the standout pick. Larry Bird was already selected by the Celtics the year before, but he stayed in school (different rules then). Norm Nixon (Duquesne) was already the Lakers PG and a good one at that. Jerry West was the Lakers coach and did not want to draft Magic because he was "too tall" for a point guard. It is hilarious, Jerry West is portrayed as a childish jackass throughout the first episode. And every other word from him was an F bomb. Can take the Boy away from the Hoopies, but can't that the Hoopie out of the boy I guess.

Anyway, Buss is convinced that Magic was going to be a star, not just because of his talent but also is personality especially compared with the sullen Kareem Abdul Jabbar. So last night was Episode 1 but I really suggest you guys watch it if you can. It has gotten pretty good reviews. Interesting cast with Reilly as Buss, "Danny Noonan from Caddyshack" plays Jack Kent Cooke, Jason Clarke (Zero Dark Thirty) plays West. The actors portraying Magic, Nixon and Bird are spot on.

It is fun and again for folks my age who can remember having to stay up and watch the NBA finals on CBS ......ON TAPE DELAY at 11:30 at night will certainly appreciate it.
 
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I saw the trailer and it definitely is on my must watch list.
 
It's funny, so this caused me to look back at the NBA drafts back then. And one thing is apparent. Now there are only 2 rounds, back then there were 10. I forget what years, I think it whittled down to 7 then 3 and now 2. And I can see why. If you look at the NHL and NFL drafts, you see low round guys make it. Especially in the NHL where you are drafting guys from Sweden, Finland, Austria, and sometimes you don't know.

The NBA? Pretty much after round 3, no one made it. And especially after rd 4-5, you wouldn't find a guy who would even play 1 minute in the NBA. It was pretty stark. So cutting the draft back was probably easy decisions.
 
With respect to NBA vs. NHL popularity, my father went to college in Boston went the Celtics were in the midst of their 11 championships in 13 years (or something like that). He always said if you wanted a ticket to a Celtics game, it was easiest to get in town, they never sold out Boston Garden. In contrast, the Bruins were always sold out.

I get that this was in the northeast where hockey is still pretty popular, but it nonetheless I think demonstrates the totem pole of pro sports back then.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
It's funny, so this caused me to look back at the NBA drafts back then. And one thing is apparent. Now there are only 2 rounds, back then there were 10. I forget what years, I think it whittled down to 7 then 3 and now 2. And I can see why. If you look at the NHL and NFL drafts, you see low round guys make it. Especially in the NHL where you are drafting guys from Sweden, Finland, Austria, and sometimes you don't know.

The NBA? Pretty much after round 3, no one made it. And especially after rd 4-5, you wouldn't find a guy who would even play 1 minute in the NBA. It was pretty stark. So cutting the draft back was probably easy decisions.
Click to expand...
NBA has what? 12 roster spots, even a lot of 2nd rounders never make it.
 
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Pitt79 said:
NBA has what? 12 roster spots, even a lot of 2nd rounders never make it.
Click to expand...
It’s why expansion is coming. They can easily support 2 more teams with the amount of talent in the league right now. Even on the really bad teams, there is a lot of talent. The league has really never been deeper.
 
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The 2014 book this is based on ("Showtime") is excellent. Lots of funny anecdotes, like how Mark Landsberger almost blew up the team by being so "historically dumb" (Michael Cooper quote) as to talk publicly about the side girlfriends the players had, as if that might not be a sensitive topic. Cooper's wife was basically in charge of the women around the team and it gives you a sense of how much of basketball is not about what's on the court, but what happens to build or destroy chemistry off the court as well.
 
ratking17 said:
The book is great. Set the DVR to record it so hopefully it's good too.
Click to expand...
There was one very minor Pitt moment too -- Jason Matthews working out with the Lakers for a roster spot and losing a three point shooting contest to their new coach, Mike Dunleavy (who kept on his wing tips.)
 
Great first episode. based on Jeff Pearlman's book from a few years ago. That book was fantastic. The next episode might revolve around Tarkanian taking the job then declining after his agent was murdered and dumped in the trunk of his car.

How Showtime under Pat Riley evolved was all due to a bicycle accident. A bike accident for the Lakers and a Minnesota snowstorm that birthed UCLA's dynasty. No city deserved so much good fortune.
 
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Upg bobcat said:
With respect to NBA vs. NHL popularity, my father went to college in Boston went the Celtics were in the midst of their 11 championships in 13 years (or something like that). He always said if you wanted a ticket to a Celtics game, it was easiest to get in town, they never sold out Boston Garden. In contrast, the Bruins were always sold out.

I get that this was in the northeast where hockey is still pretty popular, but it nonetheless I think demonstrates the totem pole of pro sports back then.
Click to expand...
Well one thing they also hinted at in the NBA's lack of popularity then was because it was "too black".
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
The first episode was last night. It is absolutely fantastic. John C Reilly stars as Jerry Buss who was buying the Lakers from stodgy Jack Kent Cooke. Anyone my age will love, if you are an NBA fan you will love it. It also shows you how low the NBA was on the American sports totem pole, it was lower than the NHL is now believe it or not.

It chronicles how Buss managed to get the money to buy the Lakers. The Lakers won a coin flip to get the #1 pick. And Magic Johnson was the standout pick. Larry Bird was already selected by the Celtics the year before, but he stayed in school (different rules then). Norm Nixon (Duquesne) was already the Lakers PG and a good one at that. Jerry West was the Lakers coach and did not want to draft Magic because he was "too tall" for a point guard. It is hilarious, Jerry West is portrayed as a childish jackass throughout the first episode. And every other word from him was an F bomb. Can take the Boy away from the Hoopies, but can't that the Hoopie out of the boy I guess.

Anyway, Buss is convinced that Magic was going to be a star, not just because of his talent but also is personality especially compared with the sullen Kareem Abdul Jabbar. So last night was Episode 1 but I really suggest you guys watch it if you can. It has gotten pretty good reviews. Interesting cast with Reilly as Buss, "Danny Noonan from Caddyshack" plays Jack Kent Cooke, Jason Clarke (Zero Dark Thirty) plays West. The actors portraying Magic, Nixon and Bird are spot on.

It is fun and again for folks my age who can remember having to stay up and watch the NBA finals on CBS ......ON TAPE DELAY at 11:30 at night will certainly appreciate it.
Click to expand...
I thought the first episode was just ok. Buss and Magic were decent. I don’t like the camera stuff they did with characters and some of the other characters left some to be desired. I am not sure Kareem would tell a kid to F off. The reviews I have read for the whole season don’t sound great. Guess they don’t get to the playoffs till episode 8. I will watch but my expectations are lower than they we’re going into it.
 
rockypanther said:
I thought the first episode was just ok. Buss and Magic were decent. I don’t like the camera stuff they did with characters and some of the other characters left some to be desired. I am not sure Kareem would tell a kid to F off. The reviews I have read for the whole season don’t sound great. Guess they don’t get to the playoffs till episode 8. I will watch but my expectations are lower than they we’re going into it.
Click to expand...
In that Pearlman book, it was discussed just how terrible Kareem treated people, even kids.

And for how smart Jabbar always made himself out to be, he asked Magic why is it he is liked so much and got all the endorsements. Magic pretty much said 'I'm always smiling and I treat everyone with respect." Kareem was the exact opposite.

He was touched by all the money and support he received from the fans after his LA home burned down, but once his situation was back to normal, back to treating the fans like shit.
 
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LeftCoastPanther said:
In that Pearlman book, it was discussed just how terrible Kareem treated people, even kids.

And for how smart Jabbar always made himself out to be, he asked Magic why is it he is liked so much and got all the endorsements. Magic pretty much said 'I'm always smiling and I treat everyone with respect." Kareem was the exact opposite.

He was touched by all the money and support he received from the fans after his LA home burned down, but once his situation was back to normal, back to treating the fans like shit.
Click to expand...
Never knew all that. Probably should read the book. He did kind of look like a jerk.
 
whirlybird optio said:
It’s why expansion is coming. They can easily support 2 more teams with the amount of talent in the league right now. Even on the really bad teams, there is a lot of talent. The league has really never been deeper.
Click to expand...
Seattle and where else? Vegas?
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
Fun fact, Norm Nixon is being played by a guy named DeVaughn Nixon, who happens to be Norm's son.
Click to expand...
Oh really? I didn't know that. No wonder why he is spot on. Just like O'Shea Jackson playing Ice Cube in Straight Outta Compton and I looked on IMDB and said "oh crap that's his son!"
 
Kareem is a very interesting person. His personal growth over the years has been interesting. Very socially conscious but I believe by his own admission he has made plenty of mistakes over the years. I think with his age has come more wisdom. I absolutely believe he would have used that language during his playing days.
 
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Seattle and Vegas are the obvious top choices. Louisville and St. Louis would come behind them, along with a few others.

I would help the Penguins pack up and leave if it meant we got an NBA team.
 
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TheSpecialSauce said:
Seattle and Vegas are the obvious top choices. Louisville and St. Louis would come behind them, along with a few others.

I would help the Penguins pack up and leave if it meant we got an NBA team.
Click to expand...
why? What the without out a doubt most successful franchise/program in this city over the past 40 years? What are you stupid? You are aren't you?
 
Upg bobcat said:
Pittsburgh! ;-)

Pitt basketball has been tanking because they know this is a pro sports town and the NBA is coming, right?
Click to expand...
Ya know, it used to be a regular thing around here with talk of someone kicking the tires on a possible franchise.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
why? What the without out a doubt most successful franchise/program in this city over the past 40 years? What are you stupid? You are aren't you?
Click to expand...
Because NBA basketball is 100 million times more fun than hockey? Just hazarding a guess.

Edit: The NBA should never and will never come to Pittsburgh because it’s fanbase would be horrible. But if the option was available I, too, would sacrifice the Pens if necessary. It’s not about success, it’s about personal viewing preferences.
 
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Ski11585 said:
Because NBA basketball is 100 million times more fun than hockey? Just hazarding a guess.

Edit: The NBA should never and will never come to Pittsburgh because it’s fanbase would be horrible. But if the option was available I, too, would sacrifice the Pens if necessary. It’s not about success, it’s about personal viewing preferences.
Click to expand...
I'd sacrifice Pitt basketball.
 
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This is great. I mean this is even before my time. But it shows the quality that went into the production for the NBA.

 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
The first episode was last night. It is absolutely fantastic. John C Reilly stars as Jerry Buss who was buying the Lakers from stodgy Jack Kent Cooke. Anyone my age will love, if you are an NBA fan you will love it. It also shows you how low the NBA was on the American sports totem pole, it was lower than the NHL is now believe it or not.

It chronicles how Buss managed to get the money to buy the Lakers. The Lakers won a coin flip to get the #1 pick. And Magic Johnson was the standout pick. Larry Bird was already selected by the Celtics the year before, but he stayed in school (different rules then). Norm Nixon (Duquesne) was already the Lakers PG and a good one at that. Jerry West was the Lakers coach and did not want to draft Magic because he was "too tall" for a point guard. It is hilarious, Jerry West is portrayed as a childish jackass throughout the first episode. And every other word from him was an F bomb. Can take the Boy away from the Hoopies, but can't that the Hoopie out of the boy I guess.

Anyway, Buss is convinced that Magic was going to be a star, not just because of his talent but also is personality especially compared with the sullen Kareem Abdul Jabbar. So last night was Episode 1 but I really suggest you guys watch it if you can. It has gotten pretty good reviews. Interesting cast with Reilly as Buss, "Danny Noonan from Caddyshack" plays Jack Kent Cooke, Jason Clarke (Zero Dark Thirty) plays West. The actors portraying Magic, Nixon and Bird are spot on.

It is fun and again for folks my age who can remember having to stay up and watch the NBA finals on CBS ......ON TAPE DELAY at 11:30 at night will certainly appreciate it.
Click to expand...

I remember the championship being on at 11:30 on tape delay and missing Magic's epic 40 point game (since it was on so late) filling in at center for an injured Kareem to win the finals. Things were really bad in the NBA mid-late 70's. SI did a big piece exploring how bad it was.

Bird & Magic single handedly saved the NBA. And having them play for the Lakers/Celtics was the biggest stroke of good fortune ever. If they played for the Nuggets & Suns, things may not have turned out the same way.

Then to have Jordan come along and play in Chicago, I guess it was the NBA's turn for a winning streak after the 70's almost killed it.
 
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whirlybird optio said:
It’s why expansion is coming. They can easily support 2 more teams with the amount of talent in the league right now. Even on the really bad teams, there is a lot of talent. The league has really never been deeper.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Seattle is a no brainer now that they have renovated Key Arena. Who else gets a team? KC might make sense given they have that still pretty new arena and no team? Vegas?
 
ratking17 said:
Kareem is a very interesting person. His personal growth over the years has been interesting. Very socially conscious but I believe by his own admission he has made plenty of mistakes over the years. I think with his age has come more wisdom. I absolutely believe he would have used that language during his playing days.
Click to expand...
He has said he even regrets how he treated the media -- because he lacked the connection that the media isn't just some entity out for itself but is the primary way (especially before Twitter, I would add) that fans are able to connect with the players. He's right, I mean we can all complain about journalists, but ultimately the good ones are asking the questions that we would want to ask ourselves but can't
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
This is great. I mean this is even before my time. But it shows the quality that went into the production for the NBA.

View embedded media
Click to expand...
Yep, the 1979 finals were shown on tape delay to low ratings. Magic and Larry didn't just take the NCAA tournament to the next level, within a couple of years they also took the NBA from marginal barnstorming league to big time TV -- allowing Michael and the Dream Team to take it global, and the rest is history.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
The first episode was last night. It is absolutely fantastic. John C Reilly stars as Jerry Buss who was buying the Lakers from stodgy Jack Kent Cooke. Anyone my age will love, if you are an NBA fan you will love it. It also shows you how low the NBA was on the American sports totem pole, it was lower than the NHL is now believe it or not.

It chronicles how Buss managed to get the money to buy the Lakers. The Lakers won a coin flip to get the #1 pick. And Magic Johnson was the standout pick. Larry Bird was already selected by the Celtics the year before, but he stayed in school (different rules then). Norm Nixon (Duquesne) was already the Lakers PG and a good one at that. Jerry West was the Lakers coach and did not want to draft Magic because he was "too tall" for a point guard. It is hilarious, Jerry West is portrayed as a childish jackass throughout the first episode. And every other word from him was an F bomb. Can take the Boy away from the Hoopies, but can't that the Hoopie out of the boy I guess.

Anyway, Buss is convinced that Magic was going to be a star, not just because of his talent but also is personality especially compared with the sullen Kareem Abdul Jabbar. So last night was Episode 1 but I really suggest you guys watch it if you can. It has gotten pretty good reviews. Interesting cast with Reilly as Buss, "Danny Noonan from Caddyshack" plays Jack Kent Cooke, Jason Clarke (Zero Dark Thirty) plays West. The actors portraying Magic, Nixon and Bird are spot on.

It is fun and again for folks my age who can remember having to stay up and watch the NBA finals on CBS ......ON TAPE DELAY at 11:30 at night will certainly appreciate it.
Click to expand...
It also shows you how low the NBA was on the American sports totem pole, it was lower than the NHL is now believe it or not.... I don't believe that. In any case, if so it just moved up one spot at most...

For me personally, and a lot of my old fart cohorts who enjoyed the Lakers/Celtics and the Piston and Bulls runs back in the day the NBA is dead to us...zero interest.
 
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upj87 said:
It also shows you how low the NBA was on the American sports totem pole, it was lower than the NHL is now believe it or not.... I don't believe that. In any case, if so it just moved up one spot at most...

For me personally, and a lot of my old fart cohorts who enjoyed the Lakers/Celtics and the Piston and Bulls runs back in the day the NBA is dead to us...zero interest.
Click to expand...
Well I think the biggest change is the NBA has gone global. It now has bigger global revenue than the NHL but also the English Premier League (or any other individual national level soccer league.)

Sorry getting sort of off topic from the TV show.
 
Slick Manager of Champs said:
I remember the championship being on at 11:30 on tape delay and missing Magic's epic 40 point game (since it was on so late) filling in at center for an injured Kareem to win the finals. Things were really bad in the NBA mid-late 70's. SI did a big piece exploring how bad it was.

Bird & Magic single handedly saved the NBA. And having them play for the Lakers/Celtics was the biggest stroke of good fortune ever. If they played for the Nuggets & Suns, things may not have turned out the same way.

Then to have Jordan come along and play in Chicago, I guess it was the NBA's turn for a winning streak after the 70's almost killed it.
Click to expand...
I quote this game all the time when people talk about "greatest players of all time". Magic absolutely has to be in the top 5. He was a 20 year old rookie when he did this.

Basketball great, Magic Johnson, plays center as a rookie, wins championships

On May 16, 1980, Los Angeles Lakers point guard Earvin “Magic” Johnson steps in for injured center Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and scores 42 points, leading the Lakers
www.history.com www.history.com
 
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Never looked it up before: Kareem had 40 points, 15 boards, and 4 blocks in game 5. People had to assume the Lakers were going to be toast the next game without him. Fascinating career arc: 83, gets destroyed by Moses who exposed his only weakness as an aging player struggling on the boards but still wins finals MVP in 85 at age 38.
 
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