Attendance

[Cap pitt]

I think it's a shame that there was a lot of people dressed in yellow at the Duke game. What was the matter was it too cold, to many fair weathered fans, if I'm not mistaken there was over 50,000 season tickets sold with only 35,000 in attendance, I'll bet the ones that complain the most are the ones that don't show up, just like the trump protesters are the ones that didn't vote, I am not a steeler fan but they fill the stadium the weather doesn't bother steeler fans. The Pitt fans that don't show are not really Pitt fans. Just complainers. I don't know if ther has been other post regarding attendance but, so what,

 

[Pitt Law '04]

I think it's a shame that there was a lot of people dressed in yellow at the Duke game. What was the matter was it too cold, to many fair weathered fans, if I'm not mistaken there was over 50,000 season tickets sold with only 35,000 in attendance, I'll bet the ones that complain the most are the ones that don't show up, just like the trump protesters are the ones that didn't vote, I am not a steeler fan but they fill the stadium the weather doesn't bother steeler fans. The Pitt fans that don't show are not really Pitt fans. Just complainers. I don't know if ther has been other post regarding attendance but, so what,

The issue is the stadium. It's too big. We will not have a true home field and a home field advantage until we build a right-sized stadium.

Playing in a rented stadium was a huge mistake--that should be obvious to everyone by now. There's a reason why schools are moving to get back into their own stadiums.

We are going to have to deal with this issue eventually because Heinz Field (or following the Steelers to their next stadium) is not a long term solution.

 

[ThePanthers]

It's not the stadium. The size makes it look worse, but 30K people were probably showing up whether it was in 70K Heinz, or a 45-50K Pitt stadium.

Which is a shame. This team is really fun to watch.

For the most part I've stopped worrying. The only thing that sort of bothers me is that you are correct, the ones that complain the most that we can't get recruits, etc are the ones not showing up.

 

[Pitt Law '04]

It's not the stadium. The size makes it look worse, but 30K people were probably showing up whether it was in 70K Heinz, or a 45-50K Pitt stadium. .

Huh?

Of course it's the stadium. The home field needs to be a HOME field, it needs to have an atmosphere that provides an advantage in games and for recruiting.

Kids don't care as much if it's 70K fans or 50K fans, so long as there's an atmosphere.

Further, we're never going to get to a place where there's any demand for tickets when we've got a stadium that's way too big for the fan base.

A right sized stadium solves all of these problems. A 45K or 50K stadium and our home crowds look just fine.

The issue is the venue.

 

[PantherDave724]

I hate Heinz Field. I hate it for Pitt games and Steelers games. It has a nice view, past that...it sucks. For as bad as it sucks, it's better than almost every college stadium in America in terms of amenities. But, I don't care about amenities. I care about a 45,000 seat stadium filled most Saturdays with turf and a giant Pitt logo in the middle. I just want something unique to Pitt so that we can take pride in what we have for once. I'm just exhausted making excuses for why the atmosphere sucks at Heinz Field

 

[CaptainMurphy]

It's not the stadium. The size makes it look worse, but 30K people were probably showing up whether it was in 70K Heinz, or a 45-50K Pitt stadium.

I'm not sure. I think you see more students on campus. And 35K in a 45K stadium wouldn't look bad (certainly better than in 65K Heinz Field). Look at TCU's stadium...it looks massive but only seats 45K. I do think the 30K we saw for Duke was unacceptable for coming off the Clemson win but it is what it is. I don't think it is the norm moving forward, though I think attendance will suffer playing Syracuse when students are on break. That game was an easy draw when it was WVU but I don't think students are coming back early for Syracuse.

I do think there is a lack of excitement at Heinz, at least partially due to the perception of a sparse crowd, even when there are 45K+ people there. I don't think it is remedied anytime soon by anything other than winning and a lot of it. I've been ambivalent on Heinz through the years but I'm slowly coming around to the fact that it really sucks for Pitt.

I do hope that we can someday build a cool stadium wedged into campus somewhere. I think Nippert is a great venue to model after, though anything we would build would need to be a good bit larger. Probably not in my lifetime (and I'm not that old) but who knows.

 

[Pitt Law '04]

Let me break the news to a bunch of you.

Pitt is never going to consistently fill a 70,000 seat stadium. No matter how much Pitt wins. We could win the national title and the next time we play Duke at home--Heinz Field won't be sold out.

So we might as well get on with fixing the problem by getting into a right sized stadium that will provide an atmosphere, recruiting advantage, and create some demand for tickets.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Let me break the news to a bunch of you.

Pitt is never going to consistently fill a 70,000 seat stadium. No matter how much Pitt wins. We could win the national title and the next time we play Duke at home--Heinz Field won't be sold out.

So we might as well get on with fixing the problem by getting into a right sized stadium that will provide an atmosphere, recruiting advantage, and create some demand for tickets.

Which is closer to the mother ship Univ of Pittsburgh.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Huh?

Of course it's the stadium. The home field needs to be a HOME field, it needs to have an atmosphere that provides an advantage in games and for recruiting.

Kids don't care as much if it's 70K fans or 50K fans, so long as there's an atmosphere.

Further, we're never going to get to a place where there's any demand for tickets when we've got a stadium that's way too big for the fan base.

A right sized stadium solves all of these problems. A 45K or 50K stadium and our home crowds look just fine.

The issue is the venue.

Its akin to tearing down the Pete and moving basketball games down to PPG Paints. 10K people at the Pete is a great atmosphere and a nice sized crowd. 10K people downtown would feel pretty sparse in an 18K arena. I don't think anyone would argue against that logic for basketball so I'm not sure why it doesn't apply to football. I get the finances, lack of land, etc... But to say that Heinz is a perfectly good fit for Pitt football is absurd.

 

[GT74]

I don't know if it is the stadium or not. But, Pitt's attendance, although varying somewhat with results and opponents, has never been total sellouts. I believe even in '76 with the NC team, in Pitt stadium, the avg. was less than 50k, if I'm not wrong. It is tough being in a Pro town with the Steelers, Pens, and Pirates, really popular. Other pro cities have the same problem. If the late season games are for big stakes, against top opponents, the fans will be there in bigger numbers. Take that Cinci game for a BCS bowl a few years back with Wanny. It was very cold and snowy, yet Heinz was packed. It was a great atmosphere. If the PSU game were next week, it would sellout. I don't know what we'll have for Syracuse, even though it is senior night, but the hardcore fans will be there.

 

[pittmeister]

Lots to consider...

Pitt is not a big land grant university. It doesn't have the huge alumni base that bigger schools have. Therefore, Pitt doesn't have a deep pool of donors to pay for a stadium.

Would having a cheap 45,000 seat stadium a couple of miles closer to the campus make a difference in attendance, especially considering the traffic it would cause going in and out of Oakland? It didn't matter in our heyday (70's & 80's). The best attendance Pitt football has ever had is when they moved to Heinz Field.

Would the stadium only be used for 7 games a year? Would we also use it for practices? One of big draws that high school players like about Pitt is sharing the practice facilities with the Steelers. How would a new stadium affect that relationship? If we had a campus stadium, why bus kids to the practice facilities if you have a stadium right there to practice on?

What about parking?

Could the money be used for other things like retaining coaches, investing in the brand, and constant upgrading of facilities?

These are the things that have been discussed in the past.

Instead they have chosen to try and make Heinz Field the best possible football atmosphere they can.

I do agree that tarping the upper deck in games that do not feature high profile opponents would help.

 

[CorsosRevenge]

Anyone crying about traffic going into and out of Oakland hasn't been on a road trip to UVA or Clemson. It's not like Oakland is some unique animal with traffic problems. All of
These college towns have traffic issues and
Make it work.

 

[Jpripper88]

The issue is the stadium. It's too big. We will not have a true home field and a home field advantage until we build a right-sized stadium.

Playing in a rented stadium was a huge mistake--that should be obvious to everyone by now. There's a reason why schools are moving to get back into their own stadiums.

We are going to have to deal with this issue eventually because Heinz Field (or following the Steelers to their next stadium) is not a long term solution.

There were maybe 25K people there for Duke. That has absolutely nothing to do with the stadium size. This weekend it would have looked bad no matter the size of the stadium.

 

[pittmeister]

Anyone crying about traffic going into and out of Oakland hasn't been on a road trip to UVA or Clemson. It's not like Oakland is some unique animal with traffic problems. All of
These college towns have traffic issues and
Make it work.

Agreed, but it becomes another excuse not to attend. It is easier however, to get in and out of Heinz

 

[CorsosRevenge]

Lots to consider...

Would having a cheap 45,000 seat stadium a couple of miles closer to the campus make a difference in attendance, especially considering the traffic it would cause going in and out of Oakland? It didn't matter in our heyday (70's & 80's). The best attendance Pitt football has ever had is when they moved to Heinz Field..

College football also wasn't as popular then as it is now. Some numbers for you:

Texas Darrell K Royal Stadium
1970s capacity: 77,000. Current: 100,0000

Beaver Stadium - PSU
1970s capacity: 60,000. Current: 106,000

Bryant Denny stadium - Alabama
1970s capacity: 60,000. Current 101,000

Doak Campbell Stadium- FSU
1970s capacity: 51,000. Current: 79,000.

 

[pittmeister]

College football also wasn't as popular then as it is now. Some numbers for you:

Texas Darrell K Royal Stadium
1970s capacity: 77,000. Current: 100,0000

Beaver Stadium - PSU
1970s capacity: 60,000. Current: 106,000

Bryant Denny stadium - Alabama
1970s capacity: 60,000. Current 101,000

Doak Campbell Stadium- FSU
1970s capacity: 51,000. Current: 79,000.

True, but it doesn't answer the other questions. Everything I mentioned has been discussed behind the scenes by the new administration . It is not a dead issue, but it won't happen anytime soon...

 

[pbrad]

College football also wasn't as popular then as it is now. Some numbers for you:

Texas Darrell K Royal Stadium
1970s capacity: 77,000. Current: 100,0000

Beaver Stadium - PSU
1970s capacity: 60,000. Current: 106,000

Bryant Denny stadium - Alabama
1970s capacity: 60,000. Current 101,000

Doak Campbell Stadium- FSU
1970s capacity: 51,000. Current: 79,000.

Are any of those stadiums in a pro town? Are the campuses landlocked like PITT? Yes college football is more popular but so is pro football, hockey, baseball and just about every game is on TV. I sat in PITT stadium when USC came in, packed, when Oklahoma came in, packed. Also sat there when Temple played a night game here in a downpour, not a bad crowd. The thing is there was no local TV for those games. Now a Duke comes in and the weather is on every 10 minutes telling you rain dropping temps and snow and the game is televised.

 

[SVPanther]

The issue is the stadium. It's too big. We will not have a true home field and a home field advantage until we build a right-sized stadium.

Playing in a rented stadium was a huge mistake--that should be obvious to everyone by now. There's a reason why schools are moving to get back into their own stadiums.

We are going to have to deal with this issue eventually because Heinz Field (or following the Steelers to their next stadium) is not a long term solution.

Look, except for a few years in the late 70's early 80's Pitt Stadium wasn't doing any better than Heinz and normally worse. Come to Stanford (second deck tarped and lower only half full, or any west coast schools, many big 10 and just about anything outside the SEC or a couple ACC schools, and you won't see much difference from Pitt's attendance. Winning at a top ten level is the only anecdote I see. It's a tired subject, IMO.

 

[UPitt '89]

No team is ever made it to the playoffs or the BCS title game based on attendance.

No team has gained a single spot in the rankings based on attendance.

Recruits look at 4 things primarily when deciding on a school:

1. Will I get early playing time?.
2. Will I have a chance to be playing on Sundays?
3. Will I have a chance to compete for championships?
4. Do I feel comfortable with the coaching staff?

Way down at the bottom of the list is the number of people who are attending the games.

Players don't care whether there's 100,000 people at a game or 30,000 people.

The only people that care about it or fans, and they overvalue it way too much.

This is a completely stupid subject that has little bearing on anything.

Every Pitt fan who posts an attendance thread, is doing the bidding of the nitters and hoopies .

Especially since 90% of the posts about attendance are by people who don't go to the games.

Let. It. Go.

 

[ThePanthers]

Huh?

Of course it's the stadium. The home field needs to be a HOME field, it needs to have an atmosphere that provides an advantage in games and for recruiting.

Kids don't care as much if it's 70K fans or 50K fans, so long as there's an atmosphere.

Further, we're never going to get to a place where there's any demand for tickets when we've got a stadium that's way too big for the fan base.

A right sized stadium solves all of these problems. A 45K or 50K stadium and our home crowds look just fine.

The issue is the venue.

I'm specifically talking about the number of people showing up. It's not the stadium.

I agree with you with regards to atmosphere.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Anyone crying about traffic going into and out of Oakland hasn't been on a road trip to UVA or Clemson. It's not like Oakland is some unique animal with traffic problems. All of
These college towns have traffic issues and
Make it work.

The Clemson game ended at 7:00. I got in my car at 8:50 after and even then, there was traffic. Though by that time, the traffic was moving at a decent rate. But, almost 2 hours after the final whistle, you still had folks trying to leave and we drove past at least one parking lot that still had a long line of cars waiting to leave.

Traffic is a part of college football given the mostly rural settings. In a pro town though, I admit that traffic won't do an on-campus stadium any favors. It would just take a creative approach such as having hundreds of free shuttles throughout Allegheny County. Instead of bussing students, we can bus fans in.

 

[yourhired]

One of things that hurts Pitt home attendance is that the Pitt game is on TV. If fewer Pitt home games were on TV the attendance would be better. The ratings for Pitt has always been consistently good. So people watch the games I'll be the first one to admit I was going to go but I saw the weather forecast said oh I'll stay home and watch it. The same thing will happen this week

 

[GT74]

Attendance didn't matter to the recruits at Miami, USC, etc, when they won national championships. If the recruit thrives on the attention he gets from spectators at a game to be excite or motivated, there is something wrong. How about the attention attributed to a big city, its media outlets, and exposure to pro teams? Then, if not getting to the NFL, which only a small percentage do, the internships and work opportunities. Attendance at home games is 7 days a year, what about the other 358 living there, and spending time with teammates and others?

 

[GT74]

There were maybe 25K people there for Duke. That has absolutely nothing to do with the stadium size. This weekend it would have looked bad no matter the size of the stadium.

I would say 35+. Many were in the clubs and underneath to escape the wind and cold, get food, beverages or whatever. They were still there, just not in their seats. Not making excuses for those not there, but just the way it is.

 

[YourPittDanceTeam]

No team is ever made it to the playoffs or the BCS title game based on attendance.

No team has gained a single spot in the rankings based on attendance.

Recruits look at 4 things primarily when deciding on a school:

1. Will I get early playing time?.
2. Will I have a chance to be playing on Sundays?
3. Will I have a chance to compete for championships?
4. Do I feel comfortable with the coaching staff?

Way down at the bottom of the list is the number of people who are attending the games.

Players don't care whether there's 100,000 people at a game or 30,000 people.

The only people that care about it or fans, and they overvalue it way too much.

This is a completely stupid subject that has little bearing on anything.

Every Pitt fan who posts an attendance thread, is doing the bidding of the nitters and hoopies .

Especially since 90% of the posts about attendance are by people who don't go to the games.

Let. It. Go.

How do you know what recruits are looking for??? I am willing to bet you that most recruits want all of the things that said in your post and would love to play in a stadium that is full of people watching them. They are all seeking attention, that's why they are all over television making their announcements.
I have personally know two local recruits who got D-I scholarships and both of them talked about how cool it was to see full stadiums when they took their official visits.
Face it, Pittsburgh is not the "City of Champions" that most yinzers believe that it is. Too many fair-weathered fans in this town, jumping on and off the bandwagon as needed.

 

[e-fresh]

Close the upper sideline on the home side.
For those that say they don't want to move to the lower bowl, I'm sure we can fit the people into the same section on the opposite side. Make the upper end zone general admission. That will help get people there a little earlier to get a better seat. TV won't see upper home side line. Out of sight out of mind.

With all of that said, attendance does not effect my level of fandom. I like a lot music that most other people in the world do not. This does not diminish my enjoyment of this music. Same with Pitt football. Would it be cool if there were more folks who attended? Sure, but it won't change the way I feel about the program.

 

[pittmeister]

How do you know what recruits are looking for??? I am willing to bet you that most recruits want all of the things that said in your post and would love to play in a stadium that is full of people watching them. They are all seeking attention, that's why they are all over television making their announcements.
I have personally know two local recruits who got D-I scholarships and both of them talked about how cool it was to see full stadiums when they took their official visits.
Face it, Pittsburgh is not the "City of Champions" that most yinzers believe that it is. Too many fair-weathered fans in this town, jumping on and off the bandwagon as needed.

"I have personally know two local recruits who got D-I scholarships and both of them talked about how cool it was to see full stadiums when they took their official visits."

Most kids want two things:

1. to play right away

2. to play for a winner

Attendance is nice, but it's not why they chose a school. If it were, most of the 4 star players on the roster would be playing elsewhere.

The "City of Champions" label has bestowed on Pittsburgh back in the 1970's because of the excellence of their sports teams, not because they filled up the sports venues.

Players that seek attention usually don't pan out.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I would say 35+. Many were in the clubs and underneath to escape the wind and cold, get food, beverages or whatever. They were still there, just not in their seats. Not making excuses for those not there, but just the way it is.

For some reason Pitt is the only stadium in the country where at any given time 10,000 to 15,000 people are at the game but not actually in their seats.

Well, either that or the attendance numbers that Pitt announces, including the 35,000 they announced on Saturday, are a complete and utter fiction. Here's a hint. It's the second one, not the first one. And it's been that way for a long, long time. And not just for football attendance.

 

[Somerset Panther]

Anyone crying about traffic going into and out of Oakland hasn't been on a road trip to UVA or Clemson. It's not like Oakland is some unique animal with traffic problems. All of
These college towns have traffic issues and
Make it work.

Or Annapolis for that matter. Two hours to get out of a parking lot at Navy last December was horrible.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Tired of the Pitt attendance whiners.

Tarp it to Right Size and move on (7 home games, 28 hours per year )

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[Pitt-Chains]

Tired of the Pitt attendance whiners.

Tarp it to Right Size and move on (7 home games, 28 hours per year )

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

With you growl, gets old.
Too many half empties instead of half full.

 

[PantherO]

God Please Stop these POSTS!

What is the point? The stadium is too big for our fan base. Nothing we can do about that. The die-hards are there every game. YAY!
The previous admin alienated a lot of people....will take time to get back. The casual fan base will only show up for a winner...that will come in time.

Negative posting about the attendance is basically annoying and whiney.

 

[dave97]

For some reason Pitt is the only stadium in the country where at any given time 10,000 to 15,000 people are at the game but not actually in their seats.

Well, either that or the attendance numbers that Pitt announces, including the 35,000 they announced on Saturday, are a complete and utter fiction. Here's a hint. It's the second one, not the first one. And it's been that way for a long, long time. And not just for football attendance.

Joe,

I disagree. I think the fans are just not in their seats. Even during the Penn state game which was oversold to capisity, there were thousands of empty seats while fans sat around near the vending areas. It was frustrating.

Hail to Pitt!

Dave

 

[CorsosRevenge]

The Penn State game was also 90 degrees and bordering on unbearable in the first half as the sun pounded the stadium.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

I would say 35+. Many were in the clubs and underneath to escape the wind and cold, get food, beverages or whatever. They were still there, just not in their seats. Not making excuses for those not there, but just the way it is.

There were lots of people huddling in the common areas out of the wind.
We went to our favorite bar after the clock hit 0.0.It and other bars were jammed.
Lots of people in the area but as usual they were doing other things like sitting at their tailgate or hanging out in a bar to escape the weather.
One of the problems is the Northshore has a lot to offer and fans have lots of options other than walking in the stadium.
Most college stadiums are isolated which leaves fans two options sit in your car or truck and listen to the game or sit down in the stadium.

 

[Phantomrecruit]

So many excuses from so called Pittsburgh fans, Alumni, and Students.
STOP

1. Pitt tickets are dirt cheap compared to most other schools.
2. Heinz field is easy to get in and out.
3. Plenty of places to tailgate, as well as bars and resturants.
4. Plenty of cheap parking downtown and easy walk to stadium.
5. Students are provided transpiration for free.
6. Winning team.
7. Power 5 conference opponents.

Tarp off 15k if need be, but do it now and stop all the media bullshit.
If you have tickets not sold, give them to all the youth football organizations for free (will help recruiting in future)
I don't want to hear about previous admin, or new on campus stadium (EXCUSES)
SPEND A COUPLE OF DOLLARS AND SUPPORT THE UNIVERSITY.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

So many excuses from so called Pittsburgh fans, Alumni, and Students.
STOP

1. Pitt tickets are dirt cheap compared to most other schools.
2. Heinz field is easy to get in and out.
3. Plenty of places to tailgate, as well as bars and resturants.
4. Plenty of cheap parking downtown and easy walk to stadium.
5. Students are provided transpiration for free.
6. Winning team.
7. Power 5 conference opponents.

Tarp off 15k if need be, but do it now and stop all the media bullshit.
If you have tickets not sold, give them to all the youth football organizations for free (will help recruiting in future)
I don't want to hear about previous admin, or new on campus stadium (EXCUSES)
SPEND A COUPLE OF DOLLARS AND SUPPORT THE UNIVERSITY.

good post.

 

[quip]

The issue is the stadium. It's too big. We will not have a true home field and a home field advantage until we build a right-sized stadium.

Playing in a rented stadium was a huge mistake--that should be obvious to everyone by now. There's a reason why schools are moving to get back into their own stadiums.

We are going to have to deal with this issue eventually because Heinz Field (or following the Steelers to their next stadium) is not a long term solution.

Pitt Stadium held 60,000 and was on campus. Despite that, Pitt rarely drew more than 40,000 per game.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Let me break the news to a bunch of you.

Pitt is never going to consistently fill a 70,000 seat stadium. No matter how much Pitt wins. We could win the national title and the next time we play Duke at home--Heinz Field won't be sold out.

So we might as well get on with fixing the problem by getting into a right sized stadium that will provide an atmosphere, recruiting advantage, and create some demand for tickets.

The only possible rightsizing is tarping the upper decks. Anything else is fantasy of the highest regard.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

I don't know if it is the stadium or not. But, Pitt's attendance, although varying somewhat with results and opponents, has never been total sellouts. I believe even in '76 with the NC team, in Pitt stadium, the avg. was less than 50k, if I'm not wrong. It is tough being in a Pro town with the Steelers, Pens, and Pirates, really popular. Other pro cities have the same problem. If the late season games are for big stakes, against top opponents, the fans will be there in bigger numbers. Take that Cinci game for a BCS bowl a few years back with Wanny. It was very cold and snowy, yet Heinz was packed. It was a great atmosphere. If the PSU game were next week, it would sellout. I don't know what we'll have for Syracuse, even though it is senior night, but the hardcore fans will be there.

I have posted this many times in the past, but the beloved on campus stadium in the next to the last game against Miami with a decent Pitt team didn't hit 40k. So tell me again how the on campus stadium is going to be the silver bullet?

Also the 1984 opener with BYU, featuring the 3rd ranked Pitt team, I believe had under 45k.

The only thing in a pro town that cures attendance problems is winning.