Attendance

[GT74]

Attendance seems to be a hot topic for fans, especially for those that draw well. We all know the rural, large enrollment colleges draw big numbers, and the city schools, especially those with pro teams, don't always. It is what it is. Last night, albeit a Thursday, Pitt drew 43k+, TCU, a national championship contender, also playing a conference game drew 45k+. Pittsburgh was also hosting a Penguins hockey game. It helps if the visitors bring some people, but it is tough on a Thursday night for those living a distance away. What does it all mean? Basically very little. Pitt will be full next week for ND, and TCU will be full for Okla and Baylor. Opposing fans like PSU and WVU will demean the program because of these numbers, but it will not hinder the progress of the program, because not all recruits have attendance as a priority, and good teams execute despite it. Miami, USC and other city schools have won national championships without filling their stadium, teams like TCU will continue to compete for them, and others will still have successful seasons. If Pitt continues to progress under Narduzzi, attendance and interest will increase. Fans of the large schools will still harp on it, but it won't matter. Our job as Pitt fans is to show up, and support the program financially. The loss last night hurts, but it is a blip on the radar of the future of the program. We'll see how the rest of this season plays out, but the future looks bright.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Put the people in the upper decks into the lower bowl and the bowl would have been packed. I don't think anyone would have been complaining then! I agree though, if top tier programs like TCU or Baylor draw 40-45K, their stadiums are packed or close to it. We have 25K+ yellow empties and it makes us look bad on TV. Not sure if there is any way around it, aside from getting more butts in the seats. The Thursday night games are always going to draw a little less.

 

[pittdan77]

Hearing crap from PSU fans this morning. I remind them that Pitt is still middle of the pack in the ACC for attendance and not as terrible as it looks with those terrible seats. Personally, we let it bother us too much. Pitt does well enough and can do better. Starts with us.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Hearing crap from PSU fans this morning. I remind them that Pitt is still middle of the pack in the ACC for attendance and not as terrible as it looks with those terrible seats. Personally, we let it bother us too much. Pitt does well enough and can do better. Starts with us.

Right. Winning cures everything. I don't think Miami fans were ever too concerned about their attendance averaging in the low 40s through their glory years (the 80s). That being said, we can certainly do better.

 

[TD_6082]

The skyline looks great on TV. It beats an empty cow pasture.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

The skyline looks great on TV. It beats an empty cow pasture.

I also liked how all od the skyline shots were from about a decade ago!

 

[Panthergrowl13]

I also liked how all od the skyline shots were from about a decade ago!

I don't know why the Pitt administration just doesn't tarp the stadium down to about 50,000 seats(for a game such as ND sell individual game day tickets for the tarped sections for a 60,000 plus attendance). Start with 2nd tier end zone.

When the Pirates played in old Three Rivers Stadium, they tarped the stadium from 60,000 to about 30,000 seats for Pirate games.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

It looked and felt dismal in person to start last night.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

It looked and felt dismal in person to start last night.

traffic was insane, pens in town, wrecks on major highways, weeknight rush hour.....seriously mr happy, what did you expect at kickoff?

 

[TheOldPanther]

This horse died years ago, quit beating it! Dorset, Marino etc could not fill Pitt stadium except for the 3 games - WV, ND & PSU.

 

[DonP74]

Yes, because the visiting teams fan base travels well and takes over stadiums. Ron Cook said Heinz was only half full 32,000-35,000. When ND come in it will be full of energy as the Irish go for a Top 4 spot in the playoffs.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Yes, because the visiting teams fan base travels well and takes over stadiums. Ron Cook said Heinz was only half full 32,000-35,000. When ND come in it will be full of energy as the Irish go for a Top 4 spot in the playoffs.

someone should call Ron and ask why his beloved Pirates were playing to a house that was only 2/3 full for the most meaningful regular season game in 22 years.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

traffic was insane, pens in town, wrecks on major highways, weeknight rush hour.....seriously mr happy, what did you expect at kickoff?

I made it.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

I made it.

congrats, you get this

 

[GT74]

Attendance seems to be a hot topic for fans, especially for those that draw well. We all know the rural, large enrollment colleges draw big numbers, and the city schools, especially those with pro teams, don't always. It is what it is. Last night, albeit a Thursday, Pitt drew 43k+, TCU, a national championship contender, also playing a conference game drew 45k+. Pittsburgh was also hosting a Penguins hockey game. It helps if the visitors bring some people, but it is tough on a Thursday night for those living a distance away. What does it all mean? Basically very little. Pitt will be full next week for ND, and TCU will be full for Okla and Baylor. Opposing fans like PSU and WVU will demean the program because of these numbers, but it will not hinder the progress of the program, because not all recruits have attendance as a priority, and good teams execute despite it. Miami, USC and other city schools have won national championships without filling their stadium, teams like TCU will continue to compete for them, and others will still have successful seasons. If Pitt continues to progress under Narduzzi, attendance and interest will increase. Fans of the large schools will still harp on it, but it won't matter. Our job as Pitt fans is to show up, and support the program financially. The loss last night hurts, but it is a blip on the radar of the future of the program. We'll see how the rest of this season plays out, but the future looks bright.

Just discovered that Pitt attendance ranks 8th of 19 cities housing a pro team. And, the 7 above them all have a bigger metro population. So, to put it in perspective, Pitt's attendance is not all that bad, in fact, better than perceived. Not looking for validity for attendance, but OP and this stat are just reality.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

No its not.
Again, the stadium is too large.

 

[Pittx9]

Just discovered that Pitt attendance ranks 8th of 19 cities housing a pro team. And, the 7 above them all have a bigger metro population. So, to put it in perspective, Pitt's attendance is not all that bad, in fact, better than perceived. Not looking for validity for attendance, but OP and this stat are just reality.

That's actually a very good point. Look at Miami, probably the worst home game atmosphere of all the P5 teams. There's just one thing that baffles me about Pitt fans. I know we had the best player in the country in '03, but we lost to freakin' Toledo in September and we still had a great attendance season. Present day it almost seems like one loss and the fans just stop showing up.

We're not where we want to be as a team yet, but it's Narduzzi's first year and the program is most definitely on the rise. We've still got a chance to win some big games this season, hopefully we get a good crowd for these last 3 home games. That said I still agree with your main point, attendance really is not that bad compared to other similar schools. It can always be better though.

 

[JoeScaz]

Yes, because the visiting teams fan base travels well and takes over stadiums. Ron Cook said Heinz was only half full 32,000-35,000. When ND come in it will be full of energy as the Irish go for a Top 4 spot in the playoffs.

Um, that is the age old incorrect stadium. Notre Dame WILL NOT have 30-35k. Pitt "fans" also come out of the woodwork for the "name" opponent.

 

[Saboteur]

Attendance seems to be a hot topic for fans, especially for those that draw well. We all know the rural, large enrollment colleges draw big numbers, and the city schools, especially those with pro teams, don't always. It is what it is. Last night, albeit a Thursday, Pitt drew 43k+, TCU, a national championship contender, also playing a conference game drew 45k+. Pittsburgh was also hosting a Penguins hockey game. It helps if the visitors bring some people, but it is tough on a Thursday night for those living a distance away. What does it all mean? Basically very little. Pitt will be full next week for ND, and TCU will be full for Okla and Baylor. Opposing fans like PSU and WVU will demean the program because of these numbers, but it will not hinder the progress of the program, because not all recruits have attendance as a priority, and good teams execute despite it. Miami, USC and other city schools have won national championships without filling their stadium, teams like TCU will continue to compete for them, and others will still have successful seasons. If Pitt continues to progress under Narduzzi, attendance and interest will increase. Fans of the large schools will still harp on it, but it won't matter. Our job as Pitt fans is to show up, and support the program financially. The loss last night hurts, but it is a blip on the radar of the future of the program. We'll see how the rest of this season plays out, but the future looks bright.

OSU lead the nation in attendance and it sits in the middle of a city of over 1 million people.
I compare Pitt to the Pirates....if we had a 50,000 seat stadium, I expect we would fill it 90% of the time.
but we don't so we can't.

 

[Pitt Law '04]

At some point, Pitt's administration will come to understand what almost everyone else already knows (though it may take another 14-15 years)--that Heinz Field simply does not meet Pitt's needs for a stadium.

It is too large. We are never going to fill it, given the size of our fan base--and, consequently, on TV, it looks as though we fail to draw sufficient fans to games. Also, for those attending games, it provides no atmosphere and provides no home field advantage to our team. It looks and feels empty because it is a pro stadium.

Trying to fill it is essentially a fools' errand. Further, we do not get the benefit of being able to raise ticket prices or increased donations in order to buy seats because there is no demand for a ticket, given the 69,000 or so seat capacity.

Look at the capacity of stadiums for other teams in or around large metropolitan areas and/or with similar sized fan bases:

Boston College--44,500
Georgia Tech--55,000
Syracuse--49,250
Louisville--55,000
TCU--45,000
Baylor--45,140
Maryland--51,802
Rutgers--52,454
Northwestern--47,130
Minnesota--52,525
Utah--45,017
Stanford--50,000

Pitt is NOT the only school that has trouble selling out its stadium (look at the attendance for some of the programs above). But Pitt chose to give this issue to its rivals and some in the media as a means for criticism.

Pitt needs its own stadium--around 50,000 capacity--that can provide a true home field advantage, create a good atmosphere, and enable Pitt to take advantage of better supply and demand for tickets.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

At some point, Pitt's administration will come to understand what almost everyone else already knows (though it may take another 14-15 years)--that Heinz Field simply does not meet Pitt's needs for a stadium.

Pitt is NOT the only school that has trouble selling out its stadium (look at the attendance for some of the programs above). But Pitt chose to give this issue to its rivals and some in the media as a means for criticism.

Pitt needs its own stadium--around 50,000 capacity--that can provide a true home field advantage, create a good atmosphere, and enable Pitt to take advantage of better supply and demand for tickets.

and I need about $100k to pay for my kids medical school bills that will be likely coming soon. Where, pray tell, do you plan to put said 50K stadium in the footprint of Oakland that would get approval from the city planning commission?

 

[Pittx9]

OSU lead the nation in attendance and it sits in the middle of a city of over 1 million people.

The population of Columbus is however, obviously a benefit for Ohio State. They're also probably the top football program in the nation right now. Plus, there's only the Blue Jackets in Columbus, and they're a newer franchise that old school sports fans in the area probably don't care at all about. Ohio is huge for football and Columbus does not have an NFL team, so while Ohio State is as good as they've ever been throughout the Tressel and Meyer eras, even if they weren't winning they'll always get huge crowds there.

 

[Pitt Law '04]

and I need about $100k to pay for my kids medical school bills that will be likely coming soon. Where, pray tell, do you plan to put said 50K stadium in the footprint of Oakland that would get approval from the city planning commission?

I didn't say it had to be in Oakland. And this is not a one or two year endeavor.

Heinz Field probably has another 15 years before the Steelers will want something else--or will want to follow the Cowboys lead and build their own stadium, possibly in Butler County or Washington County. Pitt needs to start planning for this eventuality now--before fans and students need to drive 45 minutes to attend a "home" game.

There will not be an easy solution to this, but Pitt put itself in this position by tearing down its home. Pitt needs to look at what Minnesota did--partnering with the state and relying heavily upon corporate donations to fund the stadium.

 

[Saboteur]

The population of Columbus is however, obviously a benefit for Ohio State. They're also probably the top football program in the nation right now. Plus, there's only the Blue Jackets in Columbus, and they're a newer franchise that old school sports fans in the area probably don't care at all about. Ohio is huge for football and Columbus does not have an NFL team, so while Ohio State is as good as they've ever been throughout the Tressel and Meyer eras, even if they weren't winning they'll always get huge crowds there.

True.

 

[Pittx9]

possibly in Butler County or Washington County.

Good God. IMO that would be totally unacceptable for the Steelers. Monroeville is the absolute furthest from Pittsburgh I would ever consider reasonable. Agree though Pitt does not realistically have to move back to Oakland if they build a new stadium. It'd be nice, but it would very tough to build a new football stadium in that area.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

I didn't say it had to be in Oakland. And this is not a one or two year endeavor.

Heinz Field probably has another 15 years before the Steelers will want something else--or will want to follow the Cowboys lead and build their own stadium, possibly in Butler County or Washington County. Pitt needs to start planning for this eventuality now--before fans and students need to drive 45 minutes to attend a "home" game.

There will not be an easy solution to this, but Pitt put itself in this position by tearing down its home. Pitt needs to look at what Minnesota did--partnering with the state and relying heavily upon corporate donations to fund the stadium.

Not sure what is the more ridiculous supposition in your post, that the Rooneys would leave their ancestral homeland of the North Side for Washington County or relying on state/corporate donations for funding.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Good God. IMO that would be totally unacceptable for the Steelers. Monroeville is the absolute furthest from Pittsburgh I would ever consider reasonable. Agree though Pitt does not realistically have to move back to Oakland if they build a new stadium. It'd be nice, but it would very tough to build a new football stadium in that area.

It all runs in cycles. Placing stadiums back in city centers has been a recent (last 25 years or so) thing (moreso for baseball). For football, I don't think having a stadium downtown matters as much, especially if there is a crunch for parking and tailgating in 15 years. If you built the stadium the right way (totally enclosed to keep the sound in), you can't see your surroundings anyways. There is also the tax issue, along with the fact that there are probably better uses of the city central than a stadium that gets used a few dozen times a year (including concerts).

 

[MartyInLawrenceville]

John Steigerwald was on with Mark Madden this afternoon. Whether you like him or not, he made a good point. Pitt will always have it's 30-35,000 diehards that come no matter what. Pitt shouldn't worry about them. They need to get the population interested...in January, February, March. He said something to the effect of this, "as big as last night's game was with Pitt's start, did anyone hear anybody in town yesterday going, 'man, I've gotta get to the Pitt game tonight! Are you going to the Pitt game? We need to go to the Pitt game!'." He made the point that with college football in Pittsburgh, there's really not a walkup crowd like there might be for baseball. It's pretty much relying on the offseason to sell tickets, and that's it. So Barnes and the athletic dept staff needs to figure out how to get more season ticket packages sold.
I'm very curious as to how many people took advantage of the 6 tickets for $36 offer. I'm guessing not many.

 

[rojo36]

Hearing crap from PSU fans this morning. I remind them that Pitt is still middle of the pack in the ACC for attendance and not as terrible as it looks with those terrible seats. Personally, we let it bother us too much. Pitt does well enough and can do better. Starts with us.

That is pretty much all PSU can talk about is attendance. What else are they doing ?

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

6 for 36 ans still swaths of empties should tell you too much supply.

 

[GT74]

That is pretty much all PSU can talk about is attendance. What else are they doing ?

PSU talks about it, because it is favorable to them. It is the talking point for them when debating the two programs. They are mired in mediocrity as a program right now (as Pitt has been) and have been taking hits from all over regarding their inefficiencies on the field this year despite an extremely easy OOC schedule. In addition, Pitt has got some good PR this year, and seem to be getting some attention from recruits. So, they fall back on the attendance thing. I credit their fans for their loyalty and support, but they are in a favorable position to draw fans, and most know it. But, as long as they can outdraw Pitt (and most others) like they do, they will use it as a talking point.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

6 for 36 ans still swaths of empties should tell you too much supply.

Tells you too little demand, which we already know

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Begin by tarping out sections 518 through 527.

Don't sell any season tickets in that area and force everyone in the lower bowl areas.

Pretty simple, wonder why the Pitt Administration and our new AD don't consider this.

Put advertising on the tarps (banks,car dealers, retail stores etc) and sell the space.

Try it out for one year and see how it goes.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[Bakkush]

I sit in the Club seats and between the ten yard lines virtually all of those seats were sold out for the season yet many were empty at the game and one of the reasons is the Club lounges. On Saturday I venture to say there were at least a thousand people on the East side wing watching the game in the lounge on sofas and at the bar rather than in their seats. This doesn't happen at most other college stadiums with bleacher seats. there are very few with luxury lounges in which you can actually view the open seats.

 

[GT74]

I sit in the Club seats and between the ten yard lines virtually all of those seats were sold out for the season yet many were empty at the game and one of the reasons is the Club lounges. On Saturday I venture to say there were at least a thousand people on the East side wing watching the game in the lounge on sofas and at the bar rather than in their seats. This doesn't happen at most other college stadiums with bleacher seats. there are very few with luxury lounges in which you can actually view the open seats.

I mentioned this a few weeks ago in reply to an attendance thread. I am in the South Club, and during the several times I ventured underneath into the lounge area, it was noticeable how many fans were down there, eating, drinking and watching on the big screens. It is packed constantly.

 

[Black_Man_Panther]

Pitt has a tainted periphery fan base. How many times in the past 20 years have they been burned... come to the big game only to watch Pitt massively under-perform against in reality are very mediocre opponents. There is a sizable majority of these fans that will NOT come back. Ever.

John Steigerwald was on with Mark Madden this afternoon. Whether you like him or not, he made a good point. Pitt will always have it's 30-35,000 diehards that come no matter what. Pitt shouldn't worry about them. They need to get the population interested...in January, February, March. He said something to the effect of this, "as big as last night's game was with Pitt's start, did anyone hear anybody in town yesterday going, 'man, I've gotta get to the Pitt game tonight! Are you going to the Pitt game? We need to go to the Pitt game!'." He made the point that with college football in Pittsburgh, there's really not a walkup crowd like there might be for baseball. It's pretty much relying on the offseason to sell tickets, and that's it. So Barnes and the athletic dept staff needs to figure out how to get more season ticket packages sold.
I'm very curious as to how many people took advantage of the 6 tickets for $36 offer. I'm guessing not many.

 

[GT74]

Pitt has a tainted periphery fan base. How many times in the past 20 years have they been burned... come to the big game only to watch Pitt massively under-perform against in reality are very mediocre opponents. There is a sizable majority of these fans that will NOT come back. Ever.

That is a shame. They weren't real fans then, only fair-weather fans. The real fans will stick to the team through good times and bad, good games and bad.

 

[MartyInLawrenceville]

That is a shame. They weren't real fans then, only fair-weather fans. The real fans will stick to the team through good times and bad, good games and bad.

GT, no doubt. And there's 30-35,000 of us. Hence, why a 45,000 seat stadium would be appropriate. Oh well, I'm to the point of "it is what it is". No use worrying about it, because it's a moot point until the Steelers want to build another stadium...probably in Washington or Butler county, in the next 15 years.

 

[Pitt Law '04]

Minnesota plays Michigan at home tonight on ESPN at 7. Tune in and look at the stadium Minnesota built and see what is possible.

When you're offering $6 tickets and can't sell out the stadium, there's a problem of too much capacity.

And if you think don't think there's a problem when you have a ranked team playing a nationally televised game and the stadium is 1/3 empty, i don't know what to tell you.

This problem isn't going away. I'm extremely sympathetic to Pitt's current administration because they are listening to fans and doing everything they can to create an atmosphere and sell tickets. But I don't think it's possible to consistently fill Heinz Field with Pitt's fan base.

It makes me chuckle to think that Pitt's prior administrations decided to move into a rented pro stadium right before the point when many other schools decided to build their own stadiums or move back on to campus.

 

[GT74]

GT, no doubt. And there's 30-35,000 of us. Hence, why a 45,000 seat stadium would be appropriate. Oh well, I'm to the point of "it is what it is". No use worrying about it, because it's a moot point until the Steelers want to build another stadium...probably in Washington or Butler county, in the next 15 years.

That is probably correct. I don't have season ticket numbers, but 30-35k seems about right. Heinz would fill up for the big, important rival games when the visitors can bring some. I do think, though, that if Pitt recruits some blue-chip locals, the interest and base attendance will steadily increase, due to more local interest with those players alone, especially with some big wins under the belt. Interest due to winning is infectious, so hopefully we get to that point. In today's society, if you lose, people will not come. Penn St, for instance, has lost a %age of their crowd because they haven't been winning enough. If they start winning big again, they will get some of that 107k, which is their mantra, back for the lesser games.