Texas built one to seat 10K in the lower bowl and curtains off the upper deck. Attendance is down. Interest in college hoops is down. Pitt needs to close the upper deck going forward and reduce lower bowl ticket costs. The days of filling The Pete are over unless we are a Final Four contendor. The arena is just too big.
Baylor has a new 7000 seat arena?
- Thread starter Sean Miller Fan
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SU and Miami were packed last year. Put out a good product and the place will be jumpin’ again this time of the year.
Saturday games though and we were challenging for the ACC Championship. Open up the upper deck when needed a few times per decade or when Duke or UNC come in.
Pete is too big. Need a nice compact 6-7k environment for buy games and weekday ACC games
No environment or home court advantage anymore.
I haven’t even heard of ushers telling people in the upper deck to move down this year like they’ve done in years past
No environment or home court advantage anymore.
I haven’t even heard of ushers telling people in the upper deck to move down this year like they’ve done in years past
When it was built, everyone kind of questioned why so big because we wouldn't even sell out the FH. But the opening coincided with the glory days and also an NHL strike and some bad Penguin teams. Perfect storm. Also, college basketball and the Big East in those days was sort of in its own Glory Days. I'd say the 90s with UNLV, Hurley/Laettner/Fab Five were the height of college hoops popularity but then it didnt have those types of teams and stars for awhile. Enter Melo, UConn, Gtown was back. Pitino at Lou. It was a great time for college hoops.
That's over now and I wished Pitt would use the Texas model. Friggin Texas. A large state school with great bball history in a large city doesnt use its upper deck. Pitt shouldn't either. Open up a few sections for Duke or UNC or if we are good and have a Saturday game. Beyond that, we are never drawing more than what the lower bowl can hold.
Yeah, college basketball is such a bad product now compared to what it was. It's sad. New team every year, and it's just not as easy to root for a team comprised of guys who have played for a combined total of like 20 different schools.
You honestly couldn't pay me to go to a Pitt basketball game. We used to have season tickets, and I remember walking to and from the Pete is some frigid temperatures, waiting in a parking garage, etc. Just no desire to do that more than every few years anymore. I went to the WVU game last year and it was awful. Students all over the upper deck just sitting wherever (including in my seats) because you could tell they're just not used to people actually being there and anyone actually caring about where they sit.
I also don't think I could watch a regular season college basketball game between two random teams these days. Used to love it. Now, I have no idea who's doing what or who is even in the top 25.
Just wished Pitt would realize its not 2003 anymore and create a different seating model. The Pete was so dead LAST year and this year when we were supposed to be good. Seating 5K-6K people in a 75% full lower bowl would have created a better homecourt advantage for Mizzou, Clem, Syr, etc. The cavernous Pete is now a disadvantage to us. Its simply too big for our needs.
Great, so Pitt's 2 revenue sports have facilities that are too big with too little demand? Someone's long term plan didn't work.
I still can't believe they built it as big as they did. As was mentioned, it's complete luck that this can got kicked down the road for as long as it has. Looked like a brilliant move for the first dozen years or so.
I always thought when built about 9K would do. Either way, it's a great venue and fun to see games there. It's not far too big like Heinz at least.
You obviously weren’t at the SU game last year. That was a packed house and great atmosphere. Miami was a packed house and the crowd got into it later in the game.
I was there. Sold out. But it was a perfect storm:
- Saturday game
- long-time rival
- playing for an ACC Championship
I wasnt at Miami but I know that was a good crowd as well. But again, a Saturday game. Open the upper deck for these Saturday games. I was at the Wednesday night "play-in" game as I called it vs Wake and there was nobody there.
We should only sell lower bowl season tickets. If we sell-out the lower bowl, then go ahead and sell the uppers. But having 1000-2000 people in the upper deck for lightly attended weeknight games is a little foolish. We need those people in the lower level.
These new smaller basketball arenas remind of when MLB started the smaller baseball-only stadium trend. So many empty seats in those multi-purpose stadiums. If money were unlimited, I'd build a cozy 8000 seat arena elsewhere on the Putt campus and then rip down the Pete and the volleyball arena and build a football stadium there
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12,500 really doesn't seem too big. That's probably in line with most other major conference schools that built a new arena around that time. Miami built one around 8,000, but they are a smaller private school with a NBA team in their back yard.
I hope Baylor fans that attend games love the new arena. For the ones watching at home, the camera angles make it damn near unwatchable.
I hope Baylor fans that attend games love the new arena. For the ones watching at home, the camera angles make it damn near unwatchable.
Baylor has won a NC and are a Top 10 program with a HOF coach. They had a 10,550 seat arena where they have lost only 16 times since 2003-04 and they thought that was too big. Ask yourself, if Pitt was required to build a new basketball arena, how many would it seat? I'd say 8000.
I think that’s a good number. Make it difficult to get in again. Attendance is down everywhere because of so many options of things to do. Make a good product, get about an 8-8500 seat arena, make tickets harder to get and you can make the same amount of money
I don't know. It's hard to say. Although basketball may be the primary driver behind these arenas, the University views them as multi-purpose facilities, so the capacity needs vary.
Baylor couldn't fill their old arena, despite their success. Baylor is also a smaller school in Waco, Texas. Compare that to Austin, TX where they built a new 15,000 seat facility, but just using creative methods to close it off to 10,000 for Longhorn basketball games.
The Pete is still a really nice facility. Pitt's problem is the product on the floor, not necessarily the size of the arena. An arena doesn't necessarily have to be jam-packed to create a great environment.
I doubt The Pete draws any more than 8000 for any of the 5 or 6 concerts per year that they have and even if so, that wouldn't be the reason to build an arena bigger than what's needed for basketball. I think you are going to continue to see college basketball attendance decline nationally.
Obviously some of the decline can be attributed to technology & the availability to watch at home.
A lot of attendance issues simply reflect the state of a certain program. We went to see UVA play at Wake Forest in 2020 (the game was played on the day Kobe Bryant was killed) and the environment was as sterile as place I've been. We went back last year, and the place was hopping. It was probably only 70 to 75% full, but still a very lively, fun crowd. It doesn't necessarily have to be a hard sell out with a butt in every seat to be a good environment.
But if you have no real hope of selling out or getting close to it, why would you use all available seats? Pitt is 0-5 at home vs P6 schools and 3-1 on the road. I think this is partly due to the depressing home court atmosphere. Its a let down. The Zoo is great but no one else is there. Even if you dont want to curtain off the upper deck, they shouldn't sell a ticket up there until the lower bowl is sold out. Like I said, Texas built essentially a joint basketball/concert venue with no intention of ever using the upper deck for basketball. Austin is a large city which doesn't have an NBA/NHL arena so it needed a concert arena. But that's the only time the upper deck will be used. There's nothing wrong with that.
Pitt sports teams have up and down years. The Pete is fine the way it is and the attendance size is about right. It's a great place to watch a basketball game. You have to win consistently same in football. Pittsburgh doesn't have a pro team so it's up to Pitt and Coach Capel to field a good team.
Also, when the Pete was built, the Penguins were playing in the Civic Arena, a venue that everyone knew was approaching the end of its natural lifespan. It wasn’t clear that the Consol Energy Center would be built, or if the Penguins would even still be in town. There was a legitimate chance that the Pete was going to end up being the largest indoor arena in the city, which changes the dynamic for capacity.
I think you could pretty easily justify from a demand perspective converting that upper deck end line section (basically the end zone that has the two new scoreboards and the Panther logo on the other side) into a new suite type of area, which would probably chop down capacity by a thousand or so. Seems like more suites, less GA is the direction sports are heading, and it seems like the IC Light baseline club on the other side has been a success. But would that renovation be worth what you’d get out of it? Maybe not.
I think you could pretty easily justify from a demand perspective converting that upper deck end line section (basically the end zone that has the two new scoreboards and the Panther logo on the other side) into a new suite type of area, which would probably chop down capacity by a thousand or so. Seems like more suites, less GA is the direction sports are heading, and it seems like the IC Light baseline club on the other side has been a success. But would that renovation be worth what you’d get out of it? Maybe not.
If you cannot curtain off the upper deck, these are the changes I'd make if money were unlimited.
- Demolish the seating across from the benches and start over. Get rid of the courtside luxury boxes and build the seating right up against the courtside seating. Then at the top of this section, make a club like at PPG where you enter your seats through the club.
- Rip out all the seats in the upper deck endzone and corners on the 1 side and build a bigger IC Light section over there. Convert the current IC Light section back to regular seating. Perhaps you can also fit in a miniature basketball court in the ripped upper corners where kids or anyone can participate in pregame or post-game contests.
The Pete isn’t too big. And we don’t need a Final Four contender, just need to get back to the expectation of yearly Tournament appearances.
Also…schedulers didn’t do us any favors. Basically 3 of our more popular opponents wound up being on Tuesday nights. Not gonna lie - while I would attend them,I didn’t go out of my way to try to convince my wife or bigger Pitt fan friends to go. It’s a tough sell on a Tuesday night when it looks like a non tournament team.
But no reason that place can’t be filled as long as we are at least “good” yearly.
The other feasible option to me…and no clue what this costs…would be to downsize the seating while upgrading the experience. That’s the trend in sports anyway. Maybe we get to 9-10k, but have some awesome new club or suite type seating.
Also…schedulers didn’t do us any favors. Basically 3 of our more popular opponents wound up being on Tuesday nights. Not gonna lie - while I would attend them,I didn’t go out of my way to try to convince my wife or bigger Pitt fan friends to go. It’s a tough sell on a Tuesday night when it looks like a non tournament team.
But no reason that place can’t be filled as long as we are at least “good” yearly.
The other feasible option to me…and no clue what this costs…would be to downsize the seating while upgrading the experience. That’s the trend in sports anyway. Maybe we get to 9-10k, but have some awesome new club or suite type seating.
It was empty during Dixon 2. Yinzer need a Final Four contendor or they cant be bothered.
I agree in downsizing seating and putting in premium sections or something
Once again, they already have the ability to curtain off the upper deck. They do it for all the women's games, although for some reason yesterday all the curtains were not down.
If you go to the game next week, look up there. It's not like they are hiding or hard to see. The retired numbers and other banners are hanging on them.
He would actually have to attend a game to know that. I mean, he has attended many in his warped mind and dreams, but reality it’s Zero..
Some may remember that when the Pete was completely full for most conference games in Big East days that some fans were trying to figure out how Pitt could increase the seating capacity a little by adding some seats at one end of the upper bowl. I believe someone back then suggested Pitt could add another 400-500 seats in there. Now fans want capacity decreased?
I really don't get why anyone really wants stadiums or arenas that are full or almost so for every game and don't mind if many people get turned away for important games because the demand greatly exceeds the capacity for those games. Just my personal opinion, however. To each his own!
I know they have curtains. We've been over this. Pitt could curtain off the upper deck like Texas does and you have a perfect 7500 seat arena. Open the curtains for Duke, UNC, or if we are good and have a Saturday game.
Yes, we have. Which is why it is so odd that you would say something like "if you cannot curtain off the upper deck...".
It's almost as if you can't remember things that don't fit in with your world view.
In the last 60’ s my dad was a basketball referee and I probably went to almost every high school playoff double header at the Civic Arena. 10,000 fans for the high school playoff double header was the norm not the exception. Man how times have changed.
Yea, but my point was that if they cant curtain off the upper deck for the fear of looking like small-time.
I saw highlights of the Dec 27 HS games at PPG and I'm not even sure the parents bothered to attend. The crowd was like 11 people.
So it looks small time to curtain off the upper deck, but it doesn't look small time for the upper deck to be open but there to be literally no one in it?
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