Ben Howland Question and Pitt

[NCanton Panther]

Well, as I posted last Spring when everybody else was recruiting kids for 2016 and we were still chasing Diallo, the grad transfers and three or 4 remaining uncommitted 2015 guys to fill out the roster, we have been behind the 8-ball since Adams, Gilbert, Zeigler, John Johnson and JJ Moore left in mass. We had only 6 scholarship players coming back, counting Chris Jones who had redshirted. Cam Wrght almost left, which would have given us barely a starting team. The program almost fell apart. We've never got our mojo back.

We tried to fill in with transfers like Uchebo, Randall, Trevor Lacey who signed with NC St, guys who had been released from LOI's like Mostella, foreign bigs like Doorson, Juco's like Houghton. We were scrambling for any live body we could find. Most of this was in the Spring after almost every usual recruit was signed already.

For the next class, we were setting our sights on guys we weren't going to get and ignoring guys who might have helped us. Arguably, getting early commitments from Rowan and Heron actually REALLY hurt us because we didn't recruit other guys at those positions and they decommitted anyway. I think hiring Slice and going after 5-stars was a serious mistake. Slice had never landed the caliber of guys he was trying for when we were a Top 20 team. And he left anyway for Kentucky cutting off any chance we would land those guys. We've been running so hard we haven't caught up to where we should be. Honestly, we might never catch up. When momentum is lost, recovering it is difficult.

Recruiting has a cycle. Mostly, it works by building relationships. There is a typical timing , due to the basketball seasons and NCAA regulations on when offers, contact, etc are allowed
Yeah, sometimes a new coach comes in and the cycle is broken and the excitement behind anew coach stimulates fast changes, but mostly, it takes a year or two for the cycle to happen. Williamson has been here 3 months less than 2 years. The '16 group, with Kithcart, Manigault snd Clark, with one more to come in the Spring is maybe better than any since Adams/Robinson, or at least as good. I honestly don't know if Dixon changed his philosophy or just signed guy he could get. The upcoming '17 group needs to be where we catch up. If it isn't we're maybe done in this iteration.

I don't think Smoke would have been my choice but he is the guy we hired. Now he delivers or not.

Excellent post that unfortunately highlights how far the program had/has sunk. The revolving door of players leaving, misses on recruiting and subsequent big time reaches just to get bodies. And you didn't even mention the 3 grad transfers we had to rely on this year to fill out the roster.

Here's hoping we can get back to a more stable foundation with the incoming and next recruiting class.

 

[Harve74]

Excellent post that unfortunately highlights how far the program had/has sunk. The revolving door of players leaving, misses on recruiting and subsequent big time reaches just to get bodies. And you didn't even mention the 3 grad transfers we had to rely on this year to fill out the roster.

Here's hoping we can get back to a more stable foundation with the incoming and next recruiting class.

There is no question recruiting completely fell off the map. It has transformed us from a team generally in the mix for a number one seed to a bubble team.Or worse.

There are many reasons which have been discussed. Turnover of recruiters is a pretty big one of them. Many people knowledgeable about basketball recruiting say stability is a huge factor. We have churned recruiters since Rice, Herrion, Skerry and then Slice left in short order and the results show the turmoil.

The guys here now have not recruited the kind of players our fans want. But, then again, with the exception of the 3 5-stars, we never really recruited those kinds of players. And, the production from those 5-stars was minimal. Recruiting MUST improve or we become BC.

I can't argue that staff changes wouldn't be helpful. But I can state with relative certainty that unless Dixon could find an assistant who has a couple good players in his pocket to bring in immediately or in November, making wholesale changes now would destroy the '16 and '17 classes and perhaps any chance we have of rebuilding the program without starting from scratch. Maybe we make one change, but it's just too late to start over.

 

[Harve74]

OK. Fair enough about Smoke. But really, and yes folks I am going there, what the hell is Barton bringing? I can trace the mediocrity we are wallowing in to his hiring. Not saying he is the sole or main reason, just he is obviously not part of the solution. He has been here for 5 years. So.....I think we have seen enough "cyclic" activity concerning Barton.

And for those of you who will counter with "well what about Brandin?" Yeah. Him too. I know, he got Kithcart, let's give him a 10 year extension also.

You're obsessed with Barton. If you were paying attention, he may have been the most producive recruiter lately, being the lead guy on Artis, Nix, Kithcart, and Clark.

Pitt has had real problems with recruiting. Pretty absurd to blame them on the #3 guy on the staff. If the '17 class isn't better, then it is time to blow up the staff. And, possibly the whole program.

But, remember, in most ways, we're a lot closer to BC than UNC or Duke. I bet most BC fans would prefer they had Al Skinner back.

 

[Piranha]

You're obsessed with Barton. If you were paying attention, he may have been the most producive recruiter lately, being the lead guy on Artis, Nix, Kithcart, and Clark.

Pitt has had real problems with recruiting. Pretty absurd to blame them on the #3 guy on the staff. If the '17 class isn't better, then it is time to blow up the staff. And, possibly the whole program.

But, remember, in most ways, we're a lot closer to BC than UNC or Duke. I bet most BC fans would prefer they had Al Skinner back.

In 4 years Barton has landed Artis. 1 guy, and he plays no defense, and is hot or cold. Is there anyone else that has done anything worthwhile on the court?