Can't imagine "James From State College"
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Well, I don't think there is anything wrong with giving a kid information, as long as it is true.
For example, I would tell any kid, whether he is a football recruit or not, that if he is considering Penn State, that he should consider the fact that across the country, when the name of that university is mentioned, many, many people will immediately think of a child sex scandal involving the football program and the university's top administrators. Do you want to be associated with that?
There is nothing wrong with giving them something to think about. I would say the same to my own kids.
For example, I would tell any kid, whether he is a football recruit or not, that if he is considering Penn State, that he should consider the fact that across the country, when the name of that university is mentioned, many, many people will immediately think of a child sex scandal involving the football program and the university's top administrators. Do you want to be associated with that?
There is nothing wrong with giving them something to think about. I would say the same to my own kids.
The nitters have drawn a conclusion that Narduzzi is already negatively recruiting against them. (I actually could care less as most schools do it and politics---which this is----can be a dirty game.) Their evidence seems to stem from Bowers and a conversation that he had with Narduzzi. Now, how could the nitters glean this information is beyond me, which leads me to believe that they are getting nervous about the long term impact of Pitt's coaching staff going full court press, but they are now running with the narrative that when Bowers last talked to Narduzzi, that Narduzzi "yelled at Bowers for decommitting." Now if this is true, I don't like it, but to me it screams of a story made up by the nitters to puff their chests at their "moral coaches who would never do such a thing."
Meanwhile, didn't BOB tell Dorian Johnson that he was more likely to get shot in Oakland than State College? I seem to remember a story that his grandmother was privy to that information and mentioned that in an interview. Regardless of whether or not it is true, let's spread that rumor against PSU. Reminds me of the Nationwide commercial last night...
Meanwhile, didn't BOB tell Dorian Johnson that he was more likely to get shot in Oakland than State College? I seem to remember a story that his grandmother was privy to that information and mentioned that in an interview. Regardless of whether or not it is true, let's spread that rumor against PSU. Reminds me of the Nationwide commercial last night...
Everybody negative recruits and if our coaches aren't doing it, I'd wonder why. The key is that negative recruiting is an art form. James Franklin has proven to be a top of the list recruiter and considering he's going to recruit this area very hard, I would go as far as hiring a PR firm to come up with a "negative recruiting against PSU strategy."
Really? Cause I think only Pitt fans are associating PSU with this. Everybody else has moved on, especially the NCAA as they relieved the sanctions, allowing them to get Bowers and Petrishen, despite the school hiring the only coach involved with an active rape investigation and a president who presided over the cover up of Jameis Winston.
Pitt fans need to move past this as it has proven to be a mere speed bump for that program.
Everybody has moved on? I think you couldn't be farther from the truth. PSU is going to have to work hard to repair their image. Really, only much time and and running a super clean program will repair the national image. It is still tarnished, ask anyone.
It took OSU decades to overcome the Woody Hayes punch (a much, much lesser incident).
It took OSU decades to overcome the Woody Hayes punch (a much, much lesser incident).
The NCAA certainly moved on, because they are essentially powerless. I'm not so sure public opinion has moved on. I don't know why you think anyone should "move past this." Many children had their lives damaged in a horrible way. That's not something anyone should forget.
I don't want to speak for recruits on this, but my interpretation of what he had to say is that obviously the Sandusky affair did not hurt their program. They have continued on. Now, I disagree with Recruits from a moral standpoint, but when do morals have to play in college football these days. Kids see Sandusky in jail, and James from state college is a hip coach in the Obama realm of perhaps being underwhelming, but having personality and flair that can overcome that. I think Recruits is stating the obvious that some people felt the Sandusky affair would put PSU behind the 8ball for decades to come, but obviously that couldn't be further from the truth. Not that it makes it morally right, but when football is your god, anything goes...
From a recruiting aspect, you are probably right. Most of these recruits were early on in their high school days when the scandal really broke. I don't think general public will be anywhere near as eager to forgive and forget.
This is a very accurate post. Franklin is a "cool dude" in the eyes of 17 year olds. And PSU will never lose a single recruit because of the Sandusky crimes/cover-up. The Sandusky stuff is nothing more than message board fodder from now on.
this couldn't be further from accurate. If you believe that you don't venture outside of pantherlair too often. Go to the Rivals Mainboard. The national message board and look for any topic relating to ped state. I think you will realize just how wrong you are. They get destroyed every single time the school is brought up for any reason. Pitt fans are certainly not alone in this thinking.
It is one thing to protest on message boards about morals. But I work with 17 and 18 year olds daily. Hell, these kids were in middle school when Paterno was there. They see Franklin through different lenses than us adults. It doesn't make it right, but you have to remember that you aren't placating to adults here; you are communicating with kids. Again, it doesn't make what happened there morally right, nor do I believe that they will ever not be associated with it. This is an absolutely horrible analogy and I recognize it prior to stating it, but asking your grandparents and great grandparents about Germany is a little different than asking current generations about it.
Let me try one more analogy. Let's look at Franklin's "Hostess" program. I have no doubt that many schools do this and it would not surprise me one iota if PSU is doing it there (though you have to wonder about the "lookers" from state college.)
Now as an adult with a son, let's call this what it is: sanctioned prostitution. I don't live under a rock. I fully believe that these hostesses "seal the deal" anyway possible. I find it offensive. I find it illegal. I find it immoral. You name the words and that is how I see it.
On the other hand:
From the Hostess perspective, how is this any different than a bunch of college kids hitting the bar/party scene every weekend trying to get laid? If the hostesses want to get laid, then what the hell...this happens every day at every college in America.
From a potential recruit standpoint: you have a 21/22/23 year old woman willing to give you something that in some cases, you might never have had. So when Franklin pulls into your school on his helicopter, and you get to meet these girls, you get so overwhelmed in feeling important (add to it that you are getting laid), and you do a little inventory check:
Morals and the thoughts of Sandusky VS the hormones and feelings of a 17/18 year old. doesn't take a genius to figure out why recruits don't view this in a different light than us adults.
Again, it doesn't make any of this morally right, and I find these people to be vile filth, but I also can put myself into their recruits' shoes.
Now as an adult with a son, let's call this what it is: sanctioned prostitution. I don't live under a rock. I fully believe that these hostesses "seal the deal" anyway possible. I find it offensive. I find it illegal. I find it immoral. You name the words and that is how I see it.
On the other hand:
From the Hostess perspective, how is this any different than a bunch of college kids hitting the bar/party scene every weekend trying to get laid? If the hostesses want to get laid, then what the hell...this happens every day at every college in America.
From a potential recruit standpoint: you have a 21/22/23 year old woman willing to give you something that in some cases, you might never have had. So when Franklin pulls into your school on his helicopter, and you get to meet these girls, you get so overwhelmed in feeling important (add to it that you are getting laid), and you do a little inventory check:
Morals and the thoughts of Sandusky VS the hormones and feelings of a 17/18 year old. doesn't take a genius to figure out why recruits don't view this in a different light than us adults.
Again, it doesn't make any of this morally right, and I find these people to be vile filth, but I also can put myself into their recruits' shoes.
I still remember when Ron Cook's girlfriend Tom Bradley routinely went into the homes of parents and told them that Oakland was a ghetto with a high crime rate and their sons would be putting their lives in danger if they sent them there.
Again, message board fodder. No 17 year old gives a crap about Sandusky. Again, it will not cost them a single recruit.......ever.
In the grand scheme of things, that scandal barely affected Penn State at all. Admissions were down for a year or 2, they had some chump change penalty (its like fining the Federal Reserve), t-shirt sales were down for a year, and they had a couple less scholarships for a couple years. NO BIG DEAL.
I think both Holtz and Johnson came to Pitt because of the Scandal. I also think a few players transferred out.
too say it did not cost them a single recruit is inaccurate.
On the other end of things it could used as a positive. "We've had a lot of problems here and looking for a few good guys to right the ship. You could be part of the group that restores our image. Come and be part of something special"
More than anything its the recruiter and how he connects with the prospects. I still think Pitt affiliating with the Steelers is a draw - so is Ped State's attendance. Sort of depends on the kid
too say it did not cost them a single recruit is inaccurate.
On the other end of things it could used as a positive. "We've had a lot of problems here and looking for a few good guys to right the ship. You could be part of the group that restores our image. Come and be part of something special"
More than anything its the recruiter and how he connects with the prospects. I still think Pitt affiliating with the Steelers is a draw - so is Ped State's attendance. Sort of depends on the kid
You couldn't be more wrong, Owt.
Go to the message boards of any team in the country, but especially B1G teams, and see what they say about PSU.
My daughter goes to PSU (yeah, I know... she's the rebel of the family).... and most of the people I work with are in Southern California. When I go there and we get to small talk about our families and I mention my daughter goes to PSU, that's the FIRST thing they bring up.
Play word-association with anyone you know that is not from PA. Try these:
"SMU"
I bet 75% or more respond with "Death Penalty"
"Kent State"
Most would respond with "Four Dead in Ohio"
"Penn State"
... I think you know where I'm going with this.
Outside of PA, people's first thoughts when PSU is mentioned are related to Jerry Sandusky, Joe Paterno, and the scandal.
And also with Boyd. But probation and scholarship restrictions (ie lack of competitive teams) scared those teams away. PSU is not on probation and at full strength. It will never cost them another recruit ever again.
Yes, SMU is going to have a tiny, tiny stigma because of the Death Penalty..........which will never cost them another recruit.
Kent State is always going to have a tiny, stigma because of the incident (though I'd estimate 99% of HS kids never heard of the incident)
VT will always be associated with that tragedy (cost them a basketball recruit back then but will never cost them another recruit)
PSU will always be associated with the Sandusky stuff but they'll never lose another recruit because of it.
Basically, Penn State will be the but of jokes for about the next 10 years. "Oh, you went to Penn State? Insert joke, Sandusky comment." Every year it'll fade a little bit.
Penn State football is as strong as ever. If Franklin can coach at all, they'll be 10-0 before they start the season.
Re: PITT Like UW & MSU Recruiting Will Be Based On Winning 10+ Games!
This is why Coach Chryst was hired and followed by Coach Narduzzi with Coach Rudolph was under Finalists consideration.
The Barry Alvarez/Bielema/Andersen/Chryst Wisconsin Football Program and Dantonio MSU Football Program are based on not Top 25 Rankings in Recruiting but more on finding the recruits they develop into Top 25, 15, & 10 Rankings Winning Teams at consistent 10+ Game Winning! This is just one reason why Coach Pat was hired and the model Pitt has hopes to develop at Pitt. This is very possible with Pitt in the ACC now.
At this time and maybe never to come anymore, as the Northeast & Midwest continue to decrease as High Schools Recruits go lower in Quality and Quantity meaning that supply of Top Ranked Star Recruits has to be shared more while in the South it is growing.
There is no way Pitt and for that matter MSU, UW or Iowa has the Football Recruiting Resources of Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State have developed the last 40 years. They have multiple By Invitation High School Coaching Clinics whereby they meet, greet, and teach High School Coaches and develop relationships that results in being able to recruit Top Players.
At one time, Penn State and Ohio State actually used to bring as many as 700 High School Coaches per year. Pitt tried to the same thing under Walt Harris but they had trouble keeping up with such numbers and could not afford to do it. MSU and UW recognized this years ago too, but did not stop them from winning on that high level with less ranked recruits.
In addition, ND, Michigan, OSU, and PSU bring in no less than 3,000 young recruits from grades 8th through 12th, every year. They already know what is in these Recruiting Pipelines and more importantly can actually advise them academically to qualify for Admission. Again, Walt Harris tried to do the same thing holding Pitt summer camps where Ben Roethlisberger actually attended for a week and talked how it benefited him, but they seldom attracted less than 300. It is not just Pitt, Still, few Football programs can match what ND, OSU, Michigan, and PSU do in coaching clinics and recruiting summer camps by invitation
Moreover, these same schools often have Rosters that have 145 Players with just 85 on Scholarship. They can bring in and keep additional players sometimes many 5th year Role Players that have practiced and know their system and fill in when key injuries occur. Nebraska does the same thing by having a Walk On program that allows them to have 180 to 200 Player Rosters whereby they can actually have Second and Third Team Offensive and Defensive Units do has many Reps at Practice than the First Team.
This is how Tom Osborne did so well in winning when he often was unable to recruit in the Top 25 every year. These Schools have the Money Resources to cover all these additional Roster Players for insurance, meals, and the schools work on making sure they can get Student Financial Aid that at least helps pay for some of their education like any student and sometimes 3rd, 4th and 5th players are given a NCAA Scholarship for a year or two based on their contribution in the Coaches judgment.
Now compare that to what few knew about Pitt's Walt Harris Football Program from 1996 to 2002 whereby Pitt was only able to fund 67 to less than 85 NCAA Scholarships and was limited to having only 105-110 Roster Players let alone few to none 5th Year Players.
This is why when Wannstedt took over he actually went after Pitt contributors to Fund more scholarships, and made sure his Assistants were paid better too. Pitt was able to fund 85 scholarship after 2002 but even Indiana, and many other Football Programs were not able to do it until the Big TV Money has come into being now for most FBS Football Programs. This is just one factor why we are all seeing the rise of Programs with great Coaching Winning 10+ Games like Baylor, Missy State, and TCU.
There is no question not all College Football Programs are equal and a few have advantages as I just described, but now equal sharing of Power 5 Conferences Money, Great Coaches that do not recruit in the top 25 every year, along with being able to fund all 85 scholarships and more Roster Players can challenge some the Bigger Well Established and much bigger funded Football Programs that can pay higher for Coaches, Summer Recruits Camps, High School Coaching Clinics with more Players on the Rosters.
Penn State's Franklin is doing exactly what he promised to do, and is recruiting at a much higher level Paterno & Staff ever was able to do and I predicted he would be able to do this based on his shear personality but knowing the Recruiting Money Resources Penn State and all the benefits that come with it. Notre Dame is right up their too along with Ohio State and does even a better job than Penn State even this year. Michigan will be going back to that level under Harbaugh too. But you won't see MSU, Wisky, or Iowa doing it every year at that level.
Whether Franklin & Staff can win 10+ Games every year and beat Ohio State and Michigan with their higher recruiting classes still depends on their coaching and MSU's Dantonio's Teams will give them game like they have been doing to OSU & Michigan. Franklin Players at Vanderbilt won more games for him, but caused a scandal that Vanderbilt did not experience with Recruits and Players that let them down too.
This is the challenge Coach Pat & Staff has at PITT, and it is up to his Coaching & Staff to develop the Recruits they do get into Complete Teams as he himself learns to become a Head Coach. we will know in 2016 to 2019 if Pitt Teams can compete with the Penn State Recruiting Classes soon?
Until then, it is good to see Chancellor Gallagher Vision of using ACC Money Resources to attract and fund better coaching and a New Athletic Director and bring back Pitt Money Contributors that abandon Pitt under Pederson's Years, just like Missy State, Duke, and Ole Miss have done.
Or if Pitt got it right and found another KSU's Synder, TCU's Patterson, MSU's Dantonio, Baylor's Briles, and Alvarez's Wisky 10+ Game Winning Program whereby great coaching develop whatever Recruits and Players they have every year into winning Teams regardless of the Recruiting Rankings?
In my opinion, It is not just about Negative or Positive Recruiting anymore but keeping Top Coaches that do Positive Development Of Players into Top 10-25 Teams and whereby refuse to take jobs that offer bigger money and resources and yet when 10+ game winning does nit happen after 5 years, they are gone like we saw at Nebraska, Michigan, and Florida!
I expect Pitt is fighting Negative Recruiting every year from poor yellow seats attendance, to less Roster sizes, Contributors, Coaches salaries and expenses, stability selecting and keeping coaches, conference changes, summer camps, coaching clinics etc.
Nevertheless, Pitt still attracts recruits that turn into Top Quality Players like we may see from Jordan Whitehead that is the Dominant Player in Pennsylvania just like Fitzgerald, Revis, McCoy, and Boyd before him, but the challenge now is to develop 30 Players that may have been 2 to 3 stars Recruits into 10+ Winning Games Seasons
Especially without the Academic Scandal that happen at UNC and WVU, or NCAA Violations Scandal at USC and Ohio State, or Vanderbilt & Penn State Cover Up Scandals and Miami Booster Scandal that may have not hurt their winning but certainly hurt the image of their Universities.
Pitt Chancellor Gallagher Vision is just getting started as he is chose to hire Coach Pat Narduzzi and will choose a new Athletic Director that want to come to Pitt and return to excellence on the field and advancing such excellence when off the GridIron.
Many people have myopic visions by looking at the negatives especially unable to see things they cannot see in other's people visions, the facts are the things many can't see are the most important things on this earth. They're called visions towards excellence and learning to become excellent often comes from prior failures and then the refusal to keep making the same mistakes that caused those failures.
Finally, Pitt Athletics is paying the Head Coach and Assistants decent salaries to win 10+ games at Pitt every year and after that happens Pitt will fund to rebuild all aspects of the football program that was a place of excellence in the 1910-1939, 1955-1963, and 1973-1989, and that begins with a positive vision now unseen by results and they will find the people to do it by, of, and from Pitt too, and anyone else that wants to come to Pitt to do it.
This is Positive and will beat Negative Recruiting on any day!
This post was edited on 2/2 2:14 PM by CaptainSidneyReilly
This is why Coach Chryst was hired and followed by Coach Narduzzi with Coach Rudolph was under Finalists consideration.
The Barry Alvarez/Bielema/Andersen/Chryst Wisconsin Football Program and Dantonio MSU Football Program are based on not Top 25 Rankings in Recruiting but more on finding the recruits they develop into Top 25, 15, & 10 Rankings Winning Teams at consistent 10+ Game Winning! This is just one reason why Coach Pat was hired and the model Pitt has hopes to develop at Pitt. This is very possible with Pitt in the ACC now.
At this time and maybe never to come anymore, as the Northeast & Midwest continue to decrease as High Schools Recruits go lower in Quality and Quantity meaning that supply of Top Ranked Star Recruits has to be shared more while in the South it is growing.
There is no way Pitt and for that matter MSU, UW or Iowa has the Football Recruiting Resources of Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State have developed the last 40 years. They have multiple By Invitation High School Coaching Clinics whereby they meet, greet, and teach High School Coaches and develop relationships that results in being able to recruit Top Players.
At one time, Penn State and Ohio State actually used to bring as many as 700 High School Coaches per year. Pitt tried to the same thing under Walt Harris but they had trouble keeping up with such numbers and could not afford to do it. MSU and UW recognized this years ago too, but did not stop them from winning on that high level with less ranked recruits.
In addition, ND, Michigan, OSU, and PSU bring in no less than 3,000 young recruits from grades 8th through 12th, every year. They already know what is in these Recruiting Pipelines and more importantly can actually advise them academically to qualify for Admission. Again, Walt Harris tried to do the same thing holding Pitt summer camps where Ben Roethlisberger actually attended for a week and talked how it benefited him, but they seldom attracted less than 300. It is not just Pitt, Still, few Football programs can match what ND, OSU, Michigan, and PSU do in coaching clinics and recruiting summer camps by invitation
Moreover, these same schools often have Rosters that have 145 Players with just 85 on Scholarship. They can bring in and keep additional players sometimes many 5th year Role Players that have practiced and know their system and fill in when key injuries occur. Nebraska does the same thing by having a Walk On program that allows them to have 180 to 200 Player Rosters whereby they can actually have Second and Third Team Offensive and Defensive Units do has many Reps at Practice than the First Team.
This is how Tom Osborne did so well in winning when he often was unable to recruit in the Top 25 every year. These Schools have the Money Resources to cover all these additional Roster Players for insurance, meals, and the schools work on making sure they can get Student Financial Aid that at least helps pay for some of their education like any student and sometimes 3rd, 4th and 5th players are given a NCAA Scholarship for a year or two based on their contribution in the Coaches judgment.
Now compare that to what few knew about Pitt's Walt Harris Football Program from 1996 to 2002 whereby Pitt was only able to fund 67 to less than 85 NCAA Scholarships and was limited to having only 105-110 Roster Players let alone few to none 5th Year Players.
This is why when Wannstedt took over he actually went after Pitt contributors to Fund more scholarships, and made sure his Assistants were paid better too. Pitt was able to fund 85 scholarship after 2002 but even Indiana, and many other Football Programs were not able to do it until the Big TV Money has come into being now for most FBS Football Programs. This is just one factor why we are all seeing the rise of Programs with great Coaching Winning 10+ Games like Baylor, Missy State, and TCU.
There is no question not all College Football Programs are equal and a few have advantages as I just described, but now equal sharing of Power 5 Conferences Money, Great Coaches that do not recruit in the top 25 every year, along with being able to fund all 85 scholarships and more Roster Players can challenge some the Bigger Well Established and much bigger funded Football Programs that can pay higher for Coaches, Summer Recruits Camps, High School Coaching Clinics with more Players on the Rosters.
Penn State's Franklin is doing exactly what he promised to do, and is recruiting at a much higher level Paterno & Staff ever was able to do and I predicted he would be able to do this based on his shear personality but knowing the Recruiting Money Resources Penn State and all the benefits that come with it. Notre Dame is right up their too along with Ohio State and does even a better job than Penn State even this year. Michigan will be going back to that level under Harbaugh too. But you won't see MSU, Wisky, or Iowa doing it every year at that level.
Whether Franklin & Staff can win 10+ Games every year and beat Ohio State and Michigan with their higher recruiting classes still depends on their coaching and MSU's Dantonio's Teams will give them game like they have been doing to OSU & Michigan. Franklin Players at Vanderbilt won more games for him, but caused a scandal that Vanderbilt did not experience with Recruits and Players that let them down too.
This is the challenge Coach Pat & Staff has at PITT, and it is up to his Coaching & Staff to develop the Recruits they do get into Complete Teams as he himself learns to become a Head Coach. we will know in 2016 to 2019 if Pitt Teams can compete with the Penn State Recruiting Classes soon?
Until then, it is good to see Chancellor Gallagher Vision of using ACC Money Resources to attract and fund better coaching and a New Athletic Director and bring back Pitt Money Contributors that abandon Pitt under Pederson's Years, just like Missy State, Duke, and Ole Miss have done.
Or if Pitt got it right and found another KSU's Synder, TCU's Patterson, MSU's Dantonio, Baylor's Briles, and Alvarez's Wisky 10+ Game Winning Program whereby great coaching develop whatever Recruits and Players they have every year into winning Teams regardless of the Recruiting Rankings?
In my opinion, It is not just about Negative or Positive Recruiting anymore but keeping Top Coaches that do Positive Development Of Players into Top 10-25 Teams and whereby refuse to take jobs that offer bigger money and resources and yet when 10+ game winning does nit happen after 5 years, they are gone like we saw at Nebraska, Michigan, and Florida!
I expect Pitt is fighting Negative Recruiting every year from poor yellow seats attendance, to less Roster sizes, Contributors, Coaches salaries and expenses, stability selecting and keeping coaches, conference changes, summer camps, coaching clinics etc.
Nevertheless, Pitt still attracts recruits that turn into Top Quality Players like we may see from Jordan Whitehead that is the Dominant Player in Pennsylvania just like Fitzgerald, Revis, McCoy, and Boyd before him, but the challenge now is to develop 30 Players that may have been 2 to 3 stars Recruits into 10+ Winning Games Seasons
Especially without the Academic Scandal that happen at UNC and WVU, or NCAA Violations Scandal at USC and Ohio State, or Vanderbilt & Penn State Cover Up Scandals and Miami Booster Scandal that may have not hurt their winning but certainly hurt the image of their Universities.
Pitt Chancellor Gallagher Vision is just getting started as he is chose to hire Coach Pat Narduzzi and will choose a new Athletic Director that want to come to Pitt and return to excellence on the field and advancing such excellence when off the GridIron.
Many people have myopic visions by looking at the negatives especially unable to see things they cannot see in other's people visions, the facts are the things many can't see are the most important things on this earth. They're called visions towards excellence and learning to become excellent often comes from prior failures and then the refusal to keep making the same mistakes that caused those failures.
Finally, Pitt Athletics is paying the Head Coach and Assistants decent salaries to win 10+ games at Pitt every year and after that happens Pitt will fund to rebuild all aspects of the football program that was a place of excellence in the 1910-1939, 1955-1963, and 1973-1989, and that begins with a positive vision now unseen by results and they will find the people to do it by, of, and from Pitt too, and anyone else that wants to come to Pitt to do it.
This is Positive and will beat Negative Recruiting on any day!
This post was edited on 2/2 2:14 PM by CaptainSidneyReilly
Reallly? And they kicked our ass in recruiting this year. Big time. And the bowls lined up to get them. college football has rejoiced their return. They are one of those "too big to fail" type of programs. Don't get message board fanatics confused with reality. We live in an ADD type of society, things get forgotten pretty quickly. And PSU has done a great job of selling itself as the ultimate victim in all of this.
Re: Adamski TribLive Article & Link!
A good article on making some comparisons on Recruiting between Franklin compared to O'Brien under sanctions, and Paterno years of tenure. Expectations are high at Penn State to return to Top 25 Winning and the challenge awaits them against OSU, MSU and UM?
Article & Link!
More on Penn State's recruiting in Pennsylvania over the past decade
February 2, 2015 by Chris Adamski
In the lead-up to national signing day Wednesday, I was asked to do a story summing up Penn State's recruiting class. The writers for Pitt and West Virginia were asked to do so, too. The editors decided mine would go first and be the longest, a nod to the fact it was by far the highest-rated by the industry experts and websites. But instead of doing the general, easy "this class is rated so high - boy, can James Franklin recruit!" angle that would be, frankly, lazy, I wanted to dig into it and see if any other trends could be identified.
We had already done the locally-pushed angle of the PSU-vs.-Pitt aspect of this, too. After considering a positional breakdown or a look into the types of athletes/players/kids that were committing, it ended up the trend that was most identifiable was the in-state aspect of recruiting. In fact, what I found was surprising.
Citing Frankin's "dominate the state" mantra, again, has become clichéd and passé. Too many people have taken it and run with it. But at the same time, he did say it, and he knew when he did (he had to) that he'd be evaluated on it. So, that's a start. It takes away the "OHMIGOD THIS CLASS IS SO GOOD" look at it and instead break down a particular segment of it.
I knew Penn State had zero of the (per Rivals) top 10 PA players last season. But what I was absolutely blown away by was that, even well before the sanctions - and even as the team was in the top 10 on the field and playing in major bowls - that it STILL was not getting much at all of Pennsylvania's top talent over the final decade of the Joe Paterno tenure.
I went through and looked at the top 10 prospects in Pennsylvania every year that Rivals provided them (dating to 2003). I was floored at, on whole, how few were going to Penn State. As I wrote, just a quarter of the top 10 from each of those years (30 of 120) did. Since 2008, it's been even worse. Tossing aside a strong contingent of six from the overall-solid 2010 incoming class, there were a total of six from the previous six classes! That's almost unfathomable to me - astounding that a large, Power 5 conference school with rich history playing at the second-biggest stadium in the country would do so poorly in attracting kids from its home state.
Again, I'll say that Penn State was largely successful on the field in this time (until the NCAA stepped in, anyway), which just proves the overall point that (for better or worse) Pennsylvania isn't as rich of a talent base as some here like to believe. But still - six kids in six classes? Again, as I wrote in Monday's Trib article, just as an example, New Jersey (Rutgers) and Connecticut (UConn) are the only "name" state schools in 2015 have not attracted one of the top-10 Rivals prospects. (In some states, it wasn't THE state school, but even in some states, I used 2-3 schools, such as Florida/Florida State/Miami, for example - and they all got at least one top-10 kid).
This is all a long way of saying that Franklin and his staff emphasizing the home state doesn't sound very revolutionary. But the facts show that it's a different strategy than what PSU has used as a recipe in the past (or perhaps they are just much, much better at executing it than the staffs of Paterno and Bill O'Brien were).
All of a sudden, in one year Penn State went from the equivalent of Rutgers or UConn to its home state kids to being THE choice for almost all of them. According to the data on Rivals.com, Jordan Whitehead is the lone Pennsylvania senior who received a scholarship offer from Penn State who elected to go elsewhere. Yes, Whitehead is Rivals.com's No. 1 PA senior and yes PSU wanted him badly, but the 91 percent (10-for-11) "success" rate in getting who they wanted to get in-state is as astounding as the 25 percent rate of getting top-10 PA kids PSU had lugged over a span of dozen years into the Franklin era.
I'll insert my usual disclaimer here that recruiting rankings are what they are. They're imperfect. They're bound to overrate some and underrate others. They don't necessarily correlate to on-field wins-and-losses. Heck, even the four major sites themselves can't agree on much. Look at each's ranking of the top PA seniors: They all have different No. 1's.
Read more: http://blog.triblive.com/penn-state-sports/2015/02/02/more-on-penn-states-recruiting-in-pennsylvania-over-the-past-decade/#ixzz3Qd9KvgdZ
A good article on making some comparisons on Recruiting between Franklin compared to O'Brien under sanctions, and Paterno years of tenure. Expectations are high at Penn State to return to Top 25 Winning and the challenge awaits them against OSU, MSU and UM?
Article & Link!
More on Penn State's recruiting in Pennsylvania over the past decade
February 2, 2015 by Chris Adamski
In the lead-up to national signing day Wednesday, I was asked to do a story summing up Penn State's recruiting class. The writers for Pitt and West Virginia were asked to do so, too. The editors decided mine would go first and be the longest, a nod to the fact it was by far the highest-rated by the industry experts and websites. But instead of doing the general, easy "this class is rated so high - boy, can James Franklin recruit!" angle that would be, frankly, lazy, I wanted to dig into it and see if any other trends could be identified.
We had already done the locally-pushed angle of the PSU-vs.-Pitt aspect of this, too. After considering a positional breakdown or a look into the types of athletes/players/kids that were committing, it ended up the trend that was most identifiable was the in-state aspect of recruiting. In fact, what I found was surprising.
Citing Frankin's "dominate the state" mantra, again, has become clichéd and passé. Too many people have taken it and run with it. But at the same time, he did say it, and he knew when he did (he had to) that he'd be evaluated on it. So, that's a start. It takes away the "OHMIGOD THIS CLASS IS SO GOOD" look at it and instead break down a particular segment of it.
I knew Penn State had zero of the (per Rivals) top 10 PA players last season. But what I was absolutely blown away by was that, even well before the sanctions - and even as the team was in the top 10 on the field and playing in major bowls - that it STILL was not getting much at all of Pennsylvania's top talent over the final decade of the Joe Paterno tenure.
I went through and looked at the top 10 prospects in Pennsylvania every year that Rivals provided them (dating to 2003). I was floored at, on whole, how few were going to Penn State. As I wrote, just a quarter of the top 10 from each of those years (30 of 120) did. Since 2008, it's been even worse. Tossing aside a strong contingent of six from the overall-solid 2010 incoming class, there were a total of six from the previous six classes! That's almost unfathomable to me - astounding that a large, Power 5 conference school with rich history playing at the second-biggest stadium in the country would do so poorly in attracting kids from its home state.
Again, I'll say that Penn State was largely successful on the field in this time (until the NCAA stepped in, anyway), which just proves the overall point that (for better or worse) Pennsylvania isn't as rich of a talent base as some here like to believe. But still - six kids in six classes? Again, as I wrote in Monday's Trib article, just as an example, New Jersey (Rutgers) and Connecticut (UConn) are the only "name" state schools in 2015 have not attracted one of the top-10 Rivals prospects. (In some states, it wasn't THE state school, but even in some states, I used 2-3 schools, such as Florida/Florida State/Miami, for example - and they all got at least one top-10 kid).
This is all a long way of saying that Franklin and his staff emphasizing the home state doesn't sound very revolutionary. But the facts show that it's a different strategy than what PSU has used as a recipe in the past (or perhaps they are just much, much better at executing it than the staffs of Paterno and Bill O'Brien were).
All of a sudden, in one year Penn State went from the equivalent of Rutgers or UConn to its home state kids to being THE choice for almost all of them. According to the data on Rivals.com, Jordan Whitehead is the lone Pennsylvania senior who received a scholarship offer from Penn State who elected to go elsewhere. Yes, Whitehead is Rivals.com's No. 1 PA senior and yes PSU wanted him badly, but the 91 percent (10-for-11) "success" rate in getting who they wanted to get in-state is as astounding as the 25 percent rate of getting top-10 PA kids PSU had lugged over a span of dozen years into the Franklin era.
I'll insert my usual disclaimer here that recruiting rankings are what they are. They're imperfect. They're bound to overrate some and underrate others. They don't necessarily correlate to on-field wins-and-losses. Heck, even the four major sites themselves can't agree on much. Look at each's ranking of the top PA seniors: They all have different No. 1's.
Read more: http://blog.triblive.com/penn-state-sports/2015/02/02/more-on-penn-states-recruiting-in-pennsylvania-over-the-past-decade/#ixzz3Qd9KvgdZ
Captain just what academic scandal did wvu have pertaining to there athletic teams?I must have missed that one.Good read on your analysis of recruiting at Pitt and I agree on much of what you said!Being in public education and coaching at the high school level for 35 years I have to agree with the people that said 17-18 year olds could care less about the Jerry Sandusky scandal at PSU.There is a different breed of teenagers out there.Jerry will not effect Franklin's recruiting one bit.Proof is this years class rank.BWDIK
briano is correct. Penn State will always be associated with the Sandusky scandal. That being said, I don't think most people would be vocal about it in a 1:1 setting with a Penn State fan. tMB is an excellent example of this as more than half the people on there would never make their opinion known in real life but will when sitting at a keyboard. Regardless, the opinion is obviously there.
It doesn't help that many people were celebrating 409 as some type of proof of Pateno's innocence. It wasn't. It was simply an acknowledgement by the NCAA that they had done something they didn't have the legal right to do.
While the perception of Penn State mentioned above is prevalent amongst adults, I don't know if that is the case with the majority of recruits. It appears that the majority of them are not phased by it. In fact, I can only think of two cases where a recruit and/or his family voiced concern. The first was Joey O'Connor, who was the only recruit who said that he and his family were not comfortable with staying committed to Penn State because of what happened. I actually respected that more than what some of the other kids who bailed said. The second was Ryan Switzer's mother.
In regards to impact on recruiting, Joe Paterno not doing visits, Dick Anderson and Galen Hall not recruiting at all and Jay Paterno being incompetent at it had a much bigger impact on recruiting results than the scandal did. Not saying that's right, just saying.
Do you think his assistants constantly watch him to see if he checking out their wives? Yep they found their coach all right!
Rat that was Joe Manchin's daughter that got the Master's!I thought I missed where athletes were getting fake grades and degrees.I guess this wasn't a NCAA matter,just a politician's daughter getting a Masters that she didn't finish all the course work!Wouldn't happen at Cal U or Pitt?
Bingo. And while I think BOB is a better coach than James From State College, I don't think he was a particularly good recruiter. Finally getting rid of JoePa and his son, was a boon to your program.
PSU from the mid 90's to when Paterno was fired had some top ten recruiting classes and many top 20 in that time frame. PSU hardly had any real lower rated classes and that was with paterno being over the hill. But PSU class this year while good, is hardly going to turn any corner here. It will take three really good recruiting years and of course development and game day coaching to impact the program. Did PSU have a higher rated class this year yes. Will that be the case in year three, who knows. PSU had recruiting classes from 1996 to 1999 in the top 10. 2001 to 2004 saw PSU stink. They call them the dark years as if Sandusky cover up isn't dark. I don;t get carried away by ratings. I see Franklin as a showman who has not beat a good team in five years of coaching. Keep in mind he was at Vanderbilt. Michigan goes out and gets Harbaugh. OSU hires Meyer. Big difference in those programs. In fact I really can't see Pitt being behind the nits from here. The perceived advantage of PSU simply isn't playing out on the field anymore.
Disagree. PSU had a T25 recruiting class last year and will most likely have a T15 class this year. There is an awful lot of young talent on the current team. I think most fans who are realistic would be happy with a T20 team this upcoming season and then a push to make T15 or higher depending on what Hack does.
I do agree that coaching will be important. The only question right now is on offense. Our defensive coaching is the best it has been in forever and it is not even close. Somehow, people always complain about the offense and never give the defense the respect it deserves.
Penn State's scheduling is a complete joke however. You don't even TRY to make a decent OOC schedule.
And I understand a lot was in response to the sanctions, but the sanctions are done, so you should be forced to play a more reputable schedule. Now at least with Michigan seemingly on the rise, you guys should have another tough game. But it has been very Big East like save for playing Ohio State.
I mean next year, Temple, Army, Buffalo and SD State. Not going to blast you for playing Temple, but come on. TRY and schedule another P5 conference team. And your cross over games are Northwestern and Illinois. Yeesh.
Next year is bad. After that we have PITT for four years and then VT. I doubt the B1G gave us any type of break because of the sanctions but maybe. Penn State always has trouble with NW though so I like seeing that game on there. Wouldn't mind playing Iowa as a crossover either.
Most schools are trying to upgrade their OOCs now. Next year we have Iowa and ND. 2016 we have PSU, Okie State and Marshall.
I think this is good for college football.
I think this is good for college football.
I think it is a mixed bag. Some schools are and some schools aren't. With PSU only having one tough OOC opponent (on paper) each year they probably should have it be a T20 team. IMO, that's really the only difference between Penn State and some other teams that only play one formidable foe OOC.
You never know though. Who though UCF would be a T20 team in 2013 and VT wouldn't be in 2014? I would like to see one cupcake, one MAC (B1G has to play a MAC) and one tough one. If PITT is T20 when we are playing from 2016-2014 then I would be fine with the schedule.
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