Cardiac Hill Poll Of The Week: Should Pitt Restore Its Royal Blue And Yellow Colors?, LINK!
- Thread starter CaptainSidneyReilly
- Start date
The answer to this question is obviously yes - 1,000 times yes!
However, it comes with the qualifier that if you're going to do it, please do it right. Enough nibbling around the edges and enough flirting with it. Let's just do it and put this issue to bed once and for all.
Let's go to the colors that nearly everyone associates with Pitt football. That's not navy blue and Vegas gold and it's not light blue electric yellow. It's royal blue and mustard gold.
Now, from there, if you want to get funky with uniforms and striping on the pants and jerseys, I am fine with that. I don't have a problem with modernizing the jerseys. The uniform does not have to look exactly like it did in 1983.
However, the primary mark should look like what everyone thinks of as your primary mark. It only took us about two decades to understand that basic principle.
Also, your primary colors should be the colors most people think of when they think of your company, product or in this case program.
We are still working our way through that brainteaser.
It doesn't matter what your original colors were and it doesn't matter what you think some stranger might like in the future.
What matters is what the market demands and it's incredible that we have taken such an incredibly easy fix and made it so complex and divisive.
However, it comes with the qualifier that if you're going to do it, please do it right. Enough nibbling around the edges and enough flirting with it. Let's just do it and put this issue to bed once and for all.
Let's go to the colors that nearly everyone associates with Pitt football. That's not navy blue and Vegas gold and it's not light blue electric yellow. It's royal blue and mustard gold.
Now, from there, if you want to get funky with uniforms and striping on the pants and jerseys, I am fine with that. I don't have a problem with modernizing the jerseys. The uniform does not have to look exactly like it did in 1983.
However, the primary mark should look like what everyone thinks of as your primary mark. It only took us about two decades to understand that basic principle.
Also, your primary colors should be the colors most people think of when they think of your company, product or in this case program.
We are still working our way through that brainteaser.
It doesn't matter what your original colors were and it doesn't matter what you think some stranger might like in the future.
What matters is what the market demands and it's incredible that we have taken such an incredibly easy fix and made it so complex and divisive.
"Dr. von Yinzer, post: 1932455, member: 3314"]The answer to this question is obviously yes - 1,000 times yes!
It is a No Brainer and always as been, and one knows it as Pederson opposed it, and Barnes brought officially the Script back, but design colors and helmets one can't see it as well, then the old one that made PITT SCRIPT prominent.
However, it comes with the qualifier that if you're going to do it, please do it right. Enough nibbling around the edges and enough flirting with it. Let's just do it and put this issue to bed once and for all.
Heather apparently needs Nike to Study it, and that is fine if she can't see USC does not chnage its Uniforms like Oregon changes so often help out Nike to do it elsewhere while using Pitt Money for Nike? Funny, Chairman of Nike is a Penn State Graduate Mark Parker that gave Paterno his first Shoe Contract the NCAA Discovery also used against the Paterno Estate Family Financials, they did not want published so Paterno's took Confidential Summary Judgment Praecipe Dismissal Under Seal.
Even more funny, Nike's Chairman Parker is not advocating changing Penn State Uniforms like Oregon is doing??? They made some slight change but not having a different one for every game?
Yet, Heather thinks Pitt needs it? Heather looks likes she wants to be a Pitt Athletic Decorator more than Pitt Athletic Director.
Heather spending Pitt money on Consultants just mor4 Pederson's Poison and Barnes OreGONE State Back Door Promotion for Mother????
Heather should be raising Sponsors and Boosters Contributions, but seems to have odd priorities like those other two Baboons & Buffoons.
Oregon also has some of the most Prolific College Football Facilities on Oregon's Campus paid for by Nike Money. I guess Heather wants to help that Oregon Duck Call for more Pitt Money. While Oregon State New Athletic Director Barnes Beavers don't need it? Never thought I would be seeing Beavers Ducking Nike and now add some Golden Gophers and we all can have Panther Party paid for by Pitt's Heather looking for Pitt's 10th Uniform Change since 1996!
Let's go to the colors that nearly everyone associates with Pitt football. That's not navy blue and Vegas gold and it's not light blue electric yellow. It's royal blue and mustard gold.
Funny, it was an easy choice by Johnny Majors in 1973 and Cas Myslinski was pleased to adopt it without one ounce of Complaint from the Golden Panthers Pitt Alumni and Sponsors that paid for it.
Now, from there, if you want to get funky with uniforms and striping on the pants and jerseys, I am fine with that. I don't have a problem with modernizing the jerseys. The uniform does not have to look exactly like it did in 1983.
This is acceptable as well as far as I am concern. I did not advocate the the exact same Uniforms of 1973. Just the Return of the Large Pitt Script on the Helmets that can be seen every game?
Heather if she wants to "LYKE"needs to Concentrate on Updating New Facilities by raising more Sponsors and Boosters, not Nike Oregon Consultants.
However, the primary mark should look like what everyone thinks of as your primary mark. It only took us about two decades to understand that basic principle.
Pitt seems to Hurt Pitt when finding the wrong people that care more about spending Pitt Money on Consultants and then wonder why they can raise more Money from Alumni, Sponsors, and Boosters???? Heather is missing that point and just been here a few months???? No one giving Money to Pitt for her to waste it and making a living for herself and her career, it must be for Pitt First!
Also, your primary colors should be the colors most people think of when they think of your company, product or in this case program. We are still working our way through that brainteaser. It doesn't matter what your original colors were and it doesn't matter what you think some stranger might like in the future. What matters is what the market demands and it's incredible that we have taken such an incredibly easy fix and made it so complex and divisive.
Exactly, and being able to rely on seeing PITT SCRIPT on the Helmets is always the Smarter sell for PITT Football and it was the Pederson Poison and Barnes Consultants and now "Heather Lyke Vice"-(Full Name) that is making the same mistakes the last Two Decades with Pitt Money Studies?
The Pitt Royal Blue & Mustard & Yellow are enough to sell Pitt anytime and not a VICE!
It is a No Brainer and always as been, and one knows it as Pederson opposed it, and Barnes brought officially the Script back, but design colors and helmets one can't see it as well, then the old one that made PITT SCRIPT prominent.
However, it comes with the qualifier that if you're going to do it, please do it right. Enough nibbling around the edges and enough flirting with it. Let's just do it and put this issue to bed once and for all.
Heather apparently needs Nike to Study it, and that is fine if she can't see USC does not chnage its Uniforms like Oregon changes so often help out Nike to do it elsewhere while using Pitt Money for Nike? Funny, Chairman of Nike is a Penn State Graduate Mark Parker that gave Paterno his first Shoe Contract the NCAA Discovery also used against the Paterno Estate Family Financials, they did not want published so Paterno's took Confidential Summary Judgment Praecipe Dismissal Under Seal.
Even more funny, Nike's Chairman Parker is not advocating changing Penn State Uniforms like Oregon is doing??? They made some slight change but not having a different one for every game?
Yet, Heather thinks Pitt needs it? Heather looks likes she wants to be a Pitt Athletic Decorator more than Pitt Athletic Director.
Heather spending Pitt money on Consultants just mor4 Pederson's Poison and Barnes OreGONE State Back Door Promotion for Mother????
Heather should be raising Sponsors and Boosters Contributions, but seems to have odd priorities like those other two Baboons & Buffoons.
Oregon also has some of the most Prolific College Football Facilities on Oregon's Campus paid for by Nike Money. I guess Heather wants to help that Oregon Duck Call for more Pitt Money. While Oregon State New Athletic Director Barnes Beavers don't need it? Never thought I would be seeing Beavers Ducking Nike and now add some Golden Gophers and we all can have Panther Party paid for by Pitt's Heather looking for Pitt's 10th Uniform Change since 1996!
Let's go to the colors that nearly everyone associates with Pitt football. That's not navy blue and Vegas gold and it's not light blue electric yellow. It's royal blue and mustard gold.
Funny, it was an easy choice by Johnny Majors in 1973 and Cas Myslinski was pleased to adopt it without one ounce of Complaint from the Golden Panthers Pitt Alumni and Sponsors that paid for it.
Now, from there, if you want to get funky with uniforms and striping on the pants and jerseys, I am fine with that. I don't have a problem with modernizing the jerseys. The uniform does not have to look exactly like it did in 1983.
This is acceptable as well as far as I am concern. I did not advocate the the exact same Uniforms of 1973. Just the Return of the Large Pitt Script on the Helmets that can be seen every game?
Heather if she wants to "LYKE"needs to Concentrate on Updating New Facilities by raising more Sponsors and Boosters, not Nike Oregon Consultants.
However, the primary mark should look like what everyone thinks of as your primary mark. It only took us about two decades to understand that basic principle.
Pitt seems to Hurt Pitt when finding the wrong people that care more about spending Pitt Money on Consultants and then wonder why they can raise more Money from Alumni, Sponsors, and Boosters???? Heather is missing that point and just been here a few months???? No one giving Money to Pitt for her to waste it and making a living for herself and her career, it must be for Pitt First!
Also, your primary colors should be the colors most people think of when they think of your company, product or in this case program. We are still working our way through that brainteaser. It doesn't matter what your original colors were and it doesn't matter what you think some stranger might like in the future. What matters is what the market demands and it's incredible that we have taken such an incredibly easy fix and made it so complex and divisive.
Exactly, and being able to rely on seeing PITT SCRIPT on the Helmets is always the Smarter sell for PITT Football and it was the Pederson Poison and Barnes Consultants and now "Heather Lyke Vice"-(Full Name) that is making the same mistakes the last Two Decades with Pitt Money Studies?
The Pitt Royal Blue & Mustard & Yellow are enough to sell Pitt anytime and not a VICE!
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Once again, some Pitt Atheltic Directors not from Pitt need to be sent and read this and asked when are they going to raise more money instead of being just be Athletic Decorators the last Two Decades?
Excerpts Showing No Need For New Uniform Experts:
"Unsteadiness at the top spot seeped into every corner of the program. Repeated wholesale changes in philosophy, method, and style--not to mention assistant coaches--caused frequent confusion, turmoil, and some wrong turns. During one 10-year period beginning in 1985, Pitt had a different tight ends coach every season. That was hardly helpful when it came time to recruit tight ends....................
PITT FORMULA FOR SUCCESS
From the moment Majors stepped back on the Pitt campus, it has been an article of faith on the Oakland campus that his second coming would result in the restoration of power to Pitt football. No one is more confident of this than Majors himself. "We have a system and a formula and a program that works," he says. "I am confident we will have success, even though there are some outside variables today that weren't present 20 years ago that affect the schedule and timetable of the formula.".............
GOAL TO GO
The sights and sounds of the construction work being done at Pitt Stadium this summer provided both a manifestation and a symbol of the rebuilding process of Pitt football under Johnny Majors, Part II. There is hardly any aspect of the program that is not in the process of being updated, upgraded, and improved. From the speed in the secondary to the color of the uniforms, Majors is once again shaping the face of Pitt football in his own remarkable image. We're not talking about face-lifts and cosmetic changes. We're looking at a radical transformation. In Majors' world, there is no place for mediocrity, and no room for negativity. If something needs to be fixed, it gets fixed. It's that simple.........
LINK:
https://www.pittmag.pitt.edu/sep95/rememberh.html
............AND............
NY TIMES ARTICLE SCRIPT RETURNS:
"When Majors arrived on campus from Iowa State, taking over a team that had won only one of 11 games the year before, he decided to give the program a makeover in every way. He put together a real weight room, but he also wanted his team to look good on Saturdays. “I looked at their uniforms, and I thought they were pretty dull,” Majors said. So Majors redesigned them. The school colors are old gold and navy blue, but Majors decided that a mustard yellow and royal blue looked sharper — in part because Pitt would not resemble the Notre Dame Fighting Irish as much. He added double “Northwestern stripes” (one wide stripe bordered by two thinner stripes) to the jerseys and a thick blue stripe, a nod to the N.F.L.’s Pittsburgh Steelers, to the pants. He wanted a helmet insignia that stood out in newspaper photos, on television and on magazine covers. Majors dreamed big from the start. Majors liked the “Ucla” script insignia on U.C.L.A.’s helmets. So he told an artist, whose name he cannot remember, to draw something similar for Pitt. ................
When Majors’s second stint as Pitt’s coach ended, the Panthers moved to navy blue jerseys with “Pittsburgh” in block letters on the front and shiny gold pants and helmets — which carried an insignia of a growling panther. Majors said he never liked putting the name of his teams on the front of their uniforms. “You learn to be recognized by the way you play,” he said. But the insignia was worse. It was widely referred to as Dino Cat, and not in a positive way. Majors said it “looked like a dog,” pronouncing it “dawg.
LINK:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/...in-a-return-to-its-signature-script.html?_r=0
Heather better start to understand Pitt does not need a Return of Steve Pederson or Dumb Jock Barnes Cosmetic Consultants, Pitt Needs To Return To PITT Football if she wants new Make Up, pay for it herself?
Excerpts Showing No Need For New Uniform Experts:
"Unsteadiness at the top spot seeped into every corner of the program. Repeated wholesale changes in philosophy, method, and style--not to mention assistant coaches--caused frequent confusion, turmoil, and some wrong turns. During one 10-year period beginning in 1985, Pitt had a different tight ends coach every season. That was hardly helpful when it came time to recruit tight ends....................
PITT FORMULA FOR SUCCESS
From the moment Majors stepped back on the Pitt campus, it has been an article of faith on the Oakland campus that his second coming would result in the restoration of power to Pitt football. No one is more confident of this than Majors himself. "We have a system and a formula and a program that works," he says. "I am confident we will have success, even though there are some outside variables today that weren't present 20 years ago that affect the schedule and timetable of the formula.".............
GOAL TO GO
The sights and sounds of the construction work being done at Pitt Stadium this summer provided both a manifestation and a symbol of the rebuilding process of Pitt football under Johnny Majors, Part II. There is hardly any aspect of the program that is not in the process of being updated, upgraded, and improved. From the speed in the secondary to the color of the uniforms, Majors is once again shaping the face of Pitt football in his own remarkable image. We're not talking about face-lifts and cosmetic changes. We're looking at a radical transformation. In Majors' world, there is no place for mediocrity, and no room for negativity. If something needs to be fixed, it gets fixed. It's that simple.........
LINK:
https://www.pittmag.pitt.edu/sep95/rememberh.html
............AND............
NY TIMES ARTICLE SCRIPT RETURNS:
"When Majors arrived on campus from Iowa State, taking over a team that had won only one of 11 games the year before, he decided to give the program a makeover in every way. He put together a real weight room, but he also wanted his team to look good on Saturdays. “I looked at their uniforms, and I thought they were pretty dull,” Majors said. So Majors redesigned them. The school colors are old gold and navy blue, but Majors decided that a mustard yellow and royal blue looked sharper — in part because Pitt would not resemble the Notre Dame Fighting Irish as much. He added double “Northwestern stripes” (one wide stripe bordered by two thinner stripes) to the jerseys and a thick blue stripe, a nod to the N.F.L.’s Pittsburgh Steelers, to the pants. He wanted a helmet insignia that stood out in newspaper photos, on television and on magazine covers. Majors dreamed big from the start. Majors liked the “Ucla” script insignia on U.C.L.A.’s helmets. So he told an artist, whose name he cannot remember, to draw something similar for Pitt. ................
When Majors’s second stint as Pitt’s coach ended, the Panthers moved to navy blue jerseys with “Pittsburgh” in block letters on the front and shiny gold pants and helmets — which carried an insignia of a growling panther. Majors said he never liked putting the name of his teams on the front of their uniforms. “You learn to be recognized by the way you play,” he said. But the insignia was worse. It was widely referred to as Dino Cat, and not in a positive way. Majors said it “looked like a dog,” pronouncing it “dawg.
LINK:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/...in-a-return-to-its-signature-script.html?_r=0
Heather better start to understand Pitt does not need a Return of Steve Pederson or Dumb Jock Barnes Cosmetic Consultants, Pitt Needs To Return To PITT Football if she wants new Make Up, pay for it herself?
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I can explain from experience that companies in apparel have industry stats galore on the marketability of colors, among other things.
Returning to script was wise, but not easy. Changing colors, even if "traditional" (and I recall Pitt football long before Majors) has implications on many fronts.
You don't like Heather, that's fine. But do you think ridiculing her persuades anyone? I don't. I see it as appealing to the minority of people who would rather rabble rouse than find a solution.
Captain, you are being antagonistic.
I can explain from experience that companies in apparel have industry stats galore on the marketability of colors, among other things.
Returning to script was wise, but not easy. Changing colors, even if "traditional" (and I recall Pitt football long before Majors) has implications on many fronts.
You don't like Heather, that's fine. But do you think ridiculing her persuades anyone? I don't. I see it as appealing to the minority of people who would rather rabble rouse than find a solution.
Acceptable criticism and fair too. But Pitt does not need just New Athletic Decorators, Pitt needs Great Coaching Support, Stable Coaching Staffers and Salaries, more Sponsors, Boosters, and Plans for Facilities Renovations.
Heather argued Oregon attracts Recruits due to Uniforms made by Nike, but it was really Great Coaching by Kelly and Nike Sponsored Super Facilities paid for by Nike and has actually gone down in Wins due to Poor Coaching and NOT New Uniforms making them Win or Recruit more, Coaching is First and Foremost no need for Consultants with Pitt Money.
I will also back up my Postings with Independence Verification Links to think how other Top Programs have returned to their Old Styles and Winning with Great Coaching in their Old Uniforms:
Make Pitt bright again
Pitt’s 1997 move to the current colors came at a time when the specter of dark and dull colors haunted the sports world. In 1996, the Philadelphia Eagles abandoned the beautiful kelly green hyper-elusive quarterback Randall Cunningham wore in favor of the comparatively gross “midnight green” that Nick Foles was painfully mediocre in. In 2000, the St. Louis Rams made a move identical to Pitt’s turning in its bright yellow and blue for a duller palate. Most drastically, the Los Angeles Kings turned in their yellow and purple for silver and black, drastically reducing strain on the eyes. But the tide has begun to turn in a Fauvist fashion once again. The Buffalo Bills have gone back to their former royal blue and red combination. The Washington Redskins have started to wear mustard yellow pants on a regular basis, something they did not do for 20-plus years. In a 2014 interview with 94WPI Morning Show, Don Smolenski, president of the Eagles, suggested that the team is contemplating a return to the old, brighter green — something much of the fan base has wanted for years. Teams are starting to realize that dull colors do not make them more menacing but instead lull their fans to sleep. Hopefully, Pitt realizes this too.
LINK:
http://pittnews.com/article/111922/opinions/columns/make-pitt-bright/
Pitt's throwback football jerseys are beautiful:
LINK:
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...ame-against-Georgia-Tech/stories/201608160144
Campus Insiders’ 2017 Tournament Of Uniforms: Final Four:
We put the best of the best uniforms in college sports head-to-head in the first ever Campus Insiders uniform tournament.
Well we started with 64 teams in this tournament, and now we’re down to the Final Four: Pitt (football), Arizona State (baseball), UCLA (basketball), and Notre Dame (hockey)........Pitt comes into the Final Four as our lowest seed of the bunch, so kudos to them for the effort they’ve shown to make it this far. One could argue that the Panthers had the toughest road to the Final Four of any of the remaining teams. After all, college football is home to some of the greatest uniforms in all of sports, so to say that you were voted as having the best football uniform in the nation is by no means a small feat. But could they muster up the energy to pull off another victory to make it to the Final?
LINK:
https://campusinsiders.com/news/campus-insiders-2017-tournament-of-uniforms-final-four-03-28-2017/
Retro uniforms we'd like to see return to the SEC in 2016:
Retro football jerseys. Fans love them. Recruits love them. Everyone gets a kick when their team bursts from the tunnel donning the garb of eras past. Until your team loses badly while wearing them, of course. Teams are always tinkering with their look. Maybe not as nutso as Oregon — who could wear a different uniform combination for every game through the year 3344 — but programs (and sponsors) are always seeking fresh new looks. Even if it means channeling the past. Here’s a look at several retro uniforms we’d like to see revitalized in 2016 and a brief history behind the colors............
10 AND 50-YEAR ANNIVERSARY, FLORIDA GATORS
WHITE HELMETS, ALABAMA
HERSCHEL WALKER-ERA, GEORGIA BULLDOGS
ORANGE JERSEYS, AUBURN
MATTE-CATS, KENTUCKY WILDCATS
LINK:
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/sec-throwback-uniforms-wed-like-to-see/
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The best reason ever for going back to the Johnny Majors I era uniform color. Tony Dorsett was arguably the best ever recruit, and he liked those uniforms.
There. It's settled.
nailed it.....
Same with the stadium debate....if the big time recruits like the idea of playing at HF...then that is where we should play.
I would rather watch an 11-2 team in an NFL stadium than an 8-5 team on campus.
But hey, that just me.....
Should we go back to the royal blue and yellow colors?
Did Rose Kennedy own a black dress?
Of course we should! Or we could keep our current colors and look like Notre Dame...
Did Rose Kennedy own a black dress?
Of course we should! Or we could keep our current colors and look like Notre Dame...
But wasn't that the rationale for why we went to the Vegas gold and navy blue in the first place?
I mean it's not like the fans were clamoring for a change. It was something decided from on high and descended on the lowly fans/customers.
We were told that the Pitt brand had lost value because we got blown out that one time by Ohio State that for us to get top level recruits we needed new uniforms.
I swear I remember that being part of the talking points back in the mid 90s.
We still went 7-6 and 8-5 at best.
Maybe instead of a bunch of 30 and 40 and 50-year-old men trying to guess what the most athletic 18-year-olds like based on tweets and other highly scientific evidence, we should FINALLY stop chasing our tails by assuming that A.) they all think the same, B.) their opinions are static and never change, and C.) we have any idea whether or not that correlates to them choosing a school?
Perhaps we should just stick with what we know works and is attractive to the people actually funding the operation.
Perhaps we should just stick with what we know works and is attractive to the people actually funding the operation.
What most amazes me about the uniform issue is how non-polarizing it is. It's basically the one issue on which just about every Pitt fan agrees.
And yet, somewhat astoundingly, the Pitt administration STILL refuses to meet the needs/demands of its customers.
Unreal.
I mean, what more could we want? They did return to the traditional and nationally recognized script Pitt...after an inexplicable a 20 year hiatus in which they tried approximately 147 other marks first.
Why are we making the EXACT SAME mistake with the uniforms? Can anyone honestly answer that, because I cannot?
And yet, somewhat astoundingly, the Pitt administration STILL refuses to meet the needs/demands of its customers.
Unreal.
I mean, what more could we want? They did return to the traditional and nationally recognized script Pitt...after an inexplicable a 20 year hiatus in which they tried approximately 147 other marks first.
Why are we making the EXACT SAME mistake with the uniforms? Can anyone honestly answer that, because I cannot?
I host a tailgate every week that, depending on the opponent, can grow to as many as 100 or so people in a given week.
I meet a lot of different people all the time and of course we talk Pitt football. I would say the two most popular topics are the on-campus stadium idea and the uniforms.
Some are agnostic to one issue or the other and some are ambivalent to both. That's fine, I respect that.
Also, I have spoken with people who think that going back on campus would be a bad idea for any number of reasons including traffic related reasons, cost related reasons, the Steeler relationship, etc. I wouldn't say those folks constitute the majority of the people I speak with about it but they absolutely do exist.
Conversely, I have never met ONE PERSON - not one - who thinks that our uniforms are just great. Usually, the best you can get is, "Hey, they are at least better than they used to be."
Talk about damning with faint praise.
As I said, you do occasionally get people making the point that our issues are bigger than uniforms and of course those people are right.
However, you never get people making the point that our current uniforms are better than what we had prior to 1996. It just doesn't happen. Name one other school that has clearly taking a step backwards with their uniforms and which the fans almost uniformly hate to varying degrees, and yet stubbornly refuse to improve them?
That doesn't make any sense.
People say they are sick of this topic and I couldn't agree more. I'm dead sick of this topic. I'm also sick of our uniforms being such a negative issue. Every other program in the country uses uniform changes as a reason for optimism and excitement. They literally use it to unite the fan base when they don't have anything else to be united over.
We see uniforms as a source of division and consternation. It's hard to win when what you wear is always controversial and divisive.
The reason uniforms remain a topic of conversation is because Pitt screwed up and refuses to acknowledge and fully correct it.
Everyone wants what's best for the program, so of course they are going to continue to bellyache whenever they see something that is clearly a mistake but people won't fix for whatever reason.
Previously it was ego, now it is cost, next time it will be something else.
Why don't we simply fix it, go back to what the vast majority wants and put this issue to bed once and for all? Why is this still an issue 2+ decades later? It makes no sense – it has never made any sense.
I meet a lot of different people all the time and of course we talk Pitt football. I would say the two most popular topics are the on-campus stadium idea and the uniforms.
Some are agnostic to one issue or the other and some are ambivalent to both. That's fine, I respect that.
Also, I have spoken with people who think that going back on campus would be a bad idea for any number of reasons including traffic related reasons, cost related reasons, the Steeler relationship, etc. I wouldn't say those folks constitute the majority of the people I speak with about it but they absolutely do exist.
Conversely, I have never met ONE PERSON - not one - who thinks that our uniforms are just great. Usually, the best you can get is, "Hey, they are at least better than they used to be."
Talk about damning with faint praise.
As I said, you do occasionally get people making the point that our issues are bigger than uniforms and of course those people are right.
However, you never get people making the point that our current uniforms are better than what we had prior to 1996. It just doesn't happen. Name one other school that has clearly taking a step backwards with their uniforms and which the fans almost uniformly hate to varying degrees, and yet stubbornly refuse to improve them?
That doesn't make any sense.
People say they are sick of this topic and I couldn't agree more. I'm dead sick of this topic. I'm also sick of our uniforms being such a negative issue. Every other program in the country uses uniform changes as a reason for optimism and excitement. They literally use it to unite the fan base when they don't have anything else to be united over.
We see uniforms as a source of division and consternation. It's hard to win when what you wear is always controversial and divisive.
The reason uniforms remain a topic of conversation is because Pitt screwed up and refuses to acknowledge and fully correct it.
Everyone wants what's best for the program, so of course they are going to continue to bellyache whenever they see something that is clearly a mistake but people won't fix for whatever reason.
Previously it was ego, now it is cost, next time it will be something else.
Why don't we simply fix it, go back to what the vast majority wants and put this issue to bed once and for all? Why is this still an issue 2+ decades later? It makes no sense – it has never made any sense.
These were very well done. I don't care about the shade of yellow and if it's mustard enough. It's already done, everyone liked them including players and recruits. It's a more modern version and I think they're better than 70s or 80s versions. Make a white shirt with blue numbers for away games and be done with it.
I will agree that at least that move would put us in the right church. We may not quite be in the right pew, but we would at least finally be in the right church.
I would be interested in seeing the road uniforms. I would also be curious to see what white helmets look like with those colors?
I just think the whole, "recruits like such-and-such uniforms" argument is super specious. There's just no evidence to support it one way or the other. People invariably point to a tweet here or a quote there, but there's really no data out there that shows that it's having an impact or what level of an impact it's having.
Conversely, donations are eminently quantifiable and donor engagement is extremely reliable in gauging the trajectory of your program.
That's why I would always target donors first because they are much more invested in the whole product and they fund the entire operation. If you can get that part of the machine working, everything else will fall into place.
I would be interested in seeing the road uniforms. I would also be curious to see what white helmets look like with those colors?
I just think the whole, "recruits like such-and-such uniforms" argument is super specious. There's just no evidence to support it one way or the other. People invariably point to a tweet here or a quote there, but there's really no data out there that shows that it's having an impact or what level of an impact it's having.
Conversely, donations are eminently quantifiable and donor engagement is extremely reliable in gauging the trajectory of your program.
That's why I would always target donors first because they are much more invested in the whole product and they fund the entire operation. If you can get that part of the machine working, everything else will fall into place.
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Few know this but I will reveal it, in the negotiations that brought Johnny Majors to Pitt, Johnny would not sign until he saw the money for Pitt Renovations was in a Bank Account. When the Pitt Alumni caught the attention of Chancellor Posvar to Rebuild the Pitt Program they all got together and started to raise the money. I just got a call as a Pitt Fan of Football by a number of Pitt Alumnus Friends and pledged it.
We were all waiting to seeing when Johnny would sign, and i got a call, you have to give your money now, Johnny won't sign without seeing Pitt is Committed to New Facilities and other demands he wants to be the next coach, but wants to see Boosters Money behind Pitt first.
I Wrote the Check out and drove to Dr. Mick House. Many Pitt Former Alumni Doctors, Lawyers and Dentists were coming in out too. Johnny signed, that week.
New Colors and Uniforms did not come until that summer just before 1973 Season. Donation$, Renovation$, Coache$, Recruit$ & Rebuilding Program Resource$ more important than Uniform$!
Never saw Pants win a Game but Legs in them on Great Coaching Game Plans with Great Preparation for Players Execution make any TD's look good in any Uniform, Great Coaching produces Top 25 Winning and more Booster Revenues to build Great Facilities and Recruits come that way too.
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YES! YES!!! YES!!!!! Love those! Why be boring and look just like ND, Navy, GT and the rest of the Navy & Gold conference.
I like her, and if she want Nike to Study it so be it. Add in Under Armor to do it too. Competition is s good thing.
But she also said Pitt needs better facilities but no plans on that at Pitt?
New Sports Facilities are built with Glass, Aluminum, and Stone-Bricks and Pitt has PPG, AlCOA, and plenty of Quarry's near it. Try taking a Bus Trip to PPG & ALCOA and drum up some Sponsors and Supporters to Show Case their Innovations just like the Civic Arena once served.
The City and State can always Eminent Domain some Shadyside Properties that have been bought up with New York Investment Money these past few years. Worked on getting land to build a New Prison in Greene-Fayette County a New Jersey Investor held out wanting millions more than it was worth. Until we went to Eminent Domain it and he settled, but by that time, New Governor came in and deal pulled and the entire community lost out.
I would suggest the change to Vegas / Navy and Pitt to Pittsburgh was to wash this program of all perception. The program was worse than a blowout loss to Ohio State. it was 11 ,000 at home against Rutgers...where SP personally shook every patrons hand that night......
The uniform shift we are discussing today includes a football program that knocked off the national champions in their house and took the Big Ten Champs to the woodshed. This....with recruiting on the upswing and a stability in this program that has been missing for years.
We all have our favorite colors and combos. I happen to think the all whites suck......and the throwback gold equally sucks.....
but if the best players in PA and NJ and Fla like them....and want to wear them......
then so do I.......
See, this is it my point. It's not about what colors you prefer or I prefer or what you or I speculate some 18-year-old kid in New Jersey might like or what 18-year-olds from New Jersey might like 7–10 years from now?
It's about research and data. This is honestly the simplest marketing principal in the world. They should honestly just walk down the street to Tepper and ask them to conduct the study. It would take about three days to wrap up.
Find out who your customers are and what they want and phucking give it to them. It's not remotely complicated. Why we have made this so complex is positively baffling?
That's why for years there was all this speculation about how the Steelers somehow secretly owned the script Pitt mark and refused to let the University use it.
Do you guys remember that moronic theory? Of course it was incorrect – it was one of the dumbest theories I've ever heard. However, people believed it because it made more sense to them than the University simply refusing to give the people what they want and what they have always wanted.
I am telling you that the Nike study is going to come back and say that Pitt donors relate more to the royal blue and mustard gold than any other color combination.
How do I know that? Because when I go to the Pitt games each week, I see as much throwback gear as I do contemporary gear.
It's weird and it doesn't make sense! You don't see this lunacy anywhere else.
It's about research and data. This is honestly the simplest marketing principal in the world. They should honestly just walk down the street to Tepper and ask them to conduct the study. It would take about three days to wrap up.
Find out who your customers are and what they want and phucking give it to them. It's not remotely complicated. Why we have made this so complex is positively baffling?
That's why for years there was all this speculation about how the Steelers somehow secretly owned the script Pitt mark and refused to let the University use it.
Do you guys remember that moronic theory? Of course it was incorrect – it was one of the dumbest theories I've ever heard. However, people believed it because it made more sense to them than the University simply refusing to give the people what they want and what they have always wanted.
I am telling you that the Nike study is going to come back and say that Pitt donors relate more to the royal blue and mustard gold than any other color combination.
How do I know that? Because when I go to the Pitt games each week, I see as much throwback gear as I do contemporary gear.
It's weird and it doesn't make sense! You don't see this lunacy anywhere else.
As for "Pittsburgh" needing a complete rebrand at the time, maybe that was true but maybe not?
I know one thing, I sure would love to see the data supporting that radical decision. I don't believe they did a study. I think the key decision-makers there were desperate and they hired a guy who sold them a bill of goods.
If they did do a study, they certainly did not consult a public relations firm because the PR behind it was basically a case study in how not to rebrand a product.
They basically said to the Pitt fan base, "Here, we are no longer Pitt, we are now Pittsburgh. Our colors are no longer what you have always thought them to be. Rather, they are now two totally different colors. If you don't like it, too bad. Get over it and get with the program."
How do you think that heavy handedness would go over anywhere? How did anyone think that was going to fly in tradition obsessed Pittsburgh?
Morons. Every last one of them.
What I've never understood about that was why it had to be this or that? How can the University of California at Berkeley be both Cal and California; and the University of Connecticut can be both UConn and Connecticut; but the University of Pittsburgh cannot be both Pitt and Pittsburgh?
Of course they could be that but my guess is that the administrations of those other two schools have not forbidden the less formal name. If they tried that bush league horseshit at Cal Berkeley, I'm guessing that may not go over too well with that student body/Alumni base.
Call it a hunch.
I know one thing, I sure would love to see the data supporting that radical decision. I don't believe they did a study. I think the key decision-makers there were desperate and they hired a guy who sold them a bill of goods.
If they did do a study, they certainly did not consult a public relations firm because the PR behind it was basically a case study in how not to rebrand a product.
They basically said to the Pitt fan base, "Here, we are no longer Pitt, we are now Pittsburgh. Our colors are no longer what you have always thought them to be. Rather, they are now two totally different colors. If you don't like it, too bad. Get over it and get with the program."
How do you think that heavy handedness would go over anywhere? How did anyone think that was going to fly in tradition obsessed Pittsburgh?
Morons. Every last one of them.
What I've never understood about that was why it had to be this or that? How can the University of California at Berkeley be both Cal and California; and the University of Connecticut can be both UConn and Connecticut; but the University of Pittsburgh cannot be both Pitt and Pittsburgh?
Of course they could be that but my guess is that the administrations of those other two schools have not forbidden the less formal name. If they tried that bush league horseshit at Cal Berkeley, I'm guessing that may not go over too well with that student body/Alumni base.
Call it a hunch.
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When these discussions pop-up people invariably say who cares? Uniforms are not going to make average players perform better. Those people are absolutely right. However, the inverse is also true.
Pitt wasn't performing poorly because of its uniforms and had they started to win some games people would've quickly jumped right back on the brand because that's how sports works.
Pitt didn't need a brand change, they needed to dramatically increase their financial support of the program. I know that's tougher to pull off than some swanky new gear but it's the truth.
People wonder why the uniforms and stadium issues are so important to Pitt fans and I will happily answer that for anyone left pondering this issue.
It's because they are the perfect representation of that entire era and the decision making therein. It's basically the same principle as the Pirates deciding to go to red uniforms back at the turn-of-the-century. Pirates fans were not too happy about that and casual Bucco fans probably thought what's the big deal? However, if you're not going to spend any money on the actual franchise, then spare us all the the cheap money grab.
Pitt Stadium was an even better example.
People talk about what a mess Pitt Stadium was and how it had to come down when it did. And the sad truth is, those people are absolutely right…but only in the broadest possible sense.
The stadium only had to come down in the first place because we never put any money back into it.
That's completely ridiculous!
Who else does that? Ohio Stadium is the same age as ours and so is Michigan Stadium. Notre Dame Stadium and the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum are two more examples. California Memorial Stadium is yet another example of the stadium built in that era and which is still standing.
Those stadiums weren't built with fairy dust. They were built with the same brick and mortar and with the same technologies that were used to build Pitt Stadium.
However, amazingly they all somehow had the foresight to understand that if you don't put money back into an aging structure it will quickly deteriorate.
Holy cow – those people must all be geniuses to have understood how aging infrastructure works and the importance of maintaining it.
It just rings so hollow for the officials at the University of Pittsburgh to never put any real money back into its crown jewel athletic facility for decades and then to turn around to the public and say, "Hey, you see the rubble in sections of the stadium. What do you want us to do?"
And it's completely dumbfounding that there are people out there who are dumb enough to not consider the question of how did it get to the point of dilapidation in the first place?
Pitt wasn't performing poorly because of its uniforms and had they started to win some games people would've quickly jumped right back on the brand because that's how sports works.
Pitt didn't need a brand change, they needed to dramatically increase their financial support of the program. I know that's tougher to pull off than some swanky new gear but it's the truth.
People wonder why the uniforms and stadium issues are so important to Pitt fans and I will happily answer that for anyone left pondering this issue.
It's because they are the perfect representation of that entire era and the decision making therein. It's basically the same principle as the Pirates deciding to go to red uniforms back at the turn-of-the-century. Pirates fans were not too happy about that and casual Bucco fans probably thought what's the big deal? However, if you're not going to spend any money on the actual franchise, then spare us all the the cheap money grab.
Pitt Stadium was an even better example.
People talk about what a mess Pitt Stadium was and how it had to come down when it did. And the sad truth is, those people are absolutely right…but only in the broadest possible sense.
The stadium only had to come down in the first place because we never put any money back into it.
That's completely ridiculous!
Who else does that? Ohio Stadium is the same age as ours and so is Michigan Stadium. Notre Dame Stadium and the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum are two more examples. California Memorial Stadium is yet another example of the stadium built in that era and which is still standing.
Those stadiums weren't built with fairy dust. They were built with the same brick and mortar and with the same technologies that were used to build Pitt Stadium.
However, amazingly they all somehow had the foresight to understand that if you don't put money back into an aging structure it will quickly deteriorate.
Holy cow – those people must all be geniuses to have understood how aging infrastructure works and the importance of maintaining it.
It just rings so hollow for the officials at the University of Pittsburgh to never put any real money back into its crown jewel athletic facility for decades and then to turn around to the public and say, "Hey, you see the rubble in sections of the stadium. What do you want us to do?"
And it's completely dumbfounding that there are people out there who are dumb enough to not consider the question of how did it get to the point of dilapidation in the first place?
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I am all for Pitt changing their Football Colors back to something close to Royal Blue and Yellow. I love that look. However, and I am curious what others here think, I wouldn't mind if the Basketball, Baseball, Soccer, Gymnastics, etc. stay with the current scheme. If it has to be one or the other, then I will still be for changing the colors back. I just hope they take some thought in the redesign for the other sports or they could be god awful.
This is sadly hilarious, and a point I have tried to make which has fell on mostly deaf ears for a long time. People remember the bathrooms at Pitt Stadium and they compare them to the updated bathrooms of Heinz Field, as if that sole misguided point justifies moving to Heinz. This point is often made with complete lack of the realization that bathrooms can, in fact, be updated.
The bathrooms are just a microcosm of course, but yes, the lack of Pitt Stadium renovations compared to what other institutions have done over the decades is stunningly stupid. Nobody had the courage to do something about it, so instead we get new logos and colors repeatedly, which fractures the fan base even more, leading to less revenue for the things that matter most, and the cycle continues. And of course, whenever a change is made we don't actually give fans what they want, but end up adding a special touch that isn't what anybody wanted or asked for, like the current "cathedral arch font" uniforms. Of course if Lyke has Nike studying the uniform/logo/color issues again (and I'm just repeating what some have posted here so I'm not sure if that is true) then we aren't likely to get what the fans actually want, once again. Instead we will have something 'cute' that Nike comes up with attempting to connect the 'heritage of Pittsburgh's work ethic' or some other PR nonsense. Can't wait. Constantly entertaining.
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What I'd love to have would be a European style Pitt soccer jersey, with blue and yellow vertical stripes.
Well chronicled. But the answers will be the same. Administration sycophants here will blame lack of support ... sales, attendance, donors (not understanding or caring that these things don't occur in a vacuum). That lets them wipe their hands of it. "No matter what we invest, there's no support there, so why would we try harder?"
But they can't just sit on their wallets, these are multiple admins making at least 6 figures who have to try to justify their existence. So they need to show SOME kind of activity.
Logos and colors are invariably the answer.
Borrowing from Marx, or maybe it was Bruno Mars ... Logos and colors are Pitt's version of religion... the opiates of the masses. It's why the Pitt admins mess with it at least a little every year (or a lot, if times are especially dire). It distracts from their idiotic mismanagement.
So that answers the wailing question "why can't they get it right when it's so obvious?". Well duh. If they got it right, the masses might just turn their attention to what REALLY matters.
No doubt Pitt has unique challenges being in a pro city with a couple extremely well run successful franchises (and the, ugh, Pirates as well) as competition for fan and media interest not to mention surrounded by Ohio State, WVU, Penn State and some impact of Notre Dame. It's certainly not easy. But at the same time, the sports revenue pie is huge in this region and Pitt blows tremendous opportunities to grab its share. Those same franchises and programs above prove what exponential returns can be had with solid commitment.
I think this is as close to irrefutable as anything can be ... yet if somehow its totally wrong, that Pitt would never be any more popular or successful no matter how many championships we would attain, that we exclusively would be the exception to what all the other teams around us demonstrate regularly ... if somehow its impossible for Pitt and Pitt only ...
... then WHY THE HELL does Pitt bother at ALL?
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I really like these
thats because you are too young to remember these.....
Our "culture" is no different than anyone else's. We will get behind winners. They don't have to win all the time ... the Steelers and Penguin don't win ALL the time ... but have to be participating at the required levels as the winners.
There is nothing wrong with playing around with colors or Logos either ... once you've TCB of the things that really matter first. Then screw around with colors like Oregon ... and the Penguins ... for all I give a squat. If you are putting a championship caliber team on the field nobody will care if they are dressed in chartreuse and periwinkle. But guarantee you could duplicate Tony D or Ironhead or Fitz or Shady or whatever other look you like, if the team blows, the predominant colors are gonna be bright yellow (empty seats) and red (ink).
There is nothing wrong with playing around with colors or Logos either ... once you've TCB of the things that really matter first. Then screw around with colors like Oregon ... and the Penguins ... for all I give a squat. If you are putting a championship caliber team on the field nobody will care if they are dressed in chartreuse and periwinkle. But guarantee you could duplicate Tony D or Ironhead or Fitz or Shady or whatever other look you like, if the team blows, the predominant colors are gonna be bright yellow (empty seats) and red (ink).
We already know. Not well. Unfortunately, Nordy was so tone deaf he brought SP in twice.
Hindsight is always 20/20 but Pederson's best move in 97 would have been a rebranding back to the 1976 look ... But also tying it back to reviving the booster involvement of 76-ish as well.
In 1997 the remnants of that old network that had been idiotically chased off by the Killer B 'tards and garbage O'Connor admin, might have still been accessible.
Basically a giant "mea culpa" to the booster community from the admin ... admit the past errors, regrets for being snide snobs and morons at that time, but that new sheriffs were in town (and decidedly hands off now!). And (led by symbolism of the 1976 look), let's make the Spirit of 76 happen again! With a vengeance ... emphasis on the vengeance. Not only vengeance against Pitt's game foes, but the internal nannies and ninnies who had tried to destroy it.
It's a message that would have resonated. Type A egotistical types would have bought in.
The task would have been formidable, but easier in 97.
It still is an advisable strategy now, but by now many of the old guard likely have died off or back other more amenable causes, and a new generation of deep pocket Type A mega-booster would need recruited.
But there is a common thread... lust for victory and conquest over enemies. The REAL meaning of sports.
"HailtoPitt, post: 1933333, member: 56"]This is sadly hilarious, and a point I have tried to make which has fell on mostly deaf ears for a long time. People remember the bathrooms at Pitt Stadium and they compare them to the updated bathrooms of Heinz Field, as if that sole misguided point justifies moving to Heinz. This point is often made with complete lack of the realization that bathrooms can, in fact, be updated.
The bathrooms are just a microcosm of course, but yes, the lack of Pitt Stadium renovations compared to what other institutions have done over the decades is stunningly stupid. Nobody had the courage to do something about it, so instead we get new logos and colors repeatedly, which fractures the fan base even more, leading to less revenue for the things that matter most, and the cycle continues. And of course, whenever a change is made we don't actually give fans what they want, but end up adding a special touch that isn't what anybody wanted or asked for, like the current "cathedral arch font" uniforms. Of course if Lyke has Nike studying the uniform/logo/color issues again (and I'm just repeating what some have posted here so I'm not sure if that is true) then we aren't likely to get what the fans actually want, once again. Instead we will have something 'cute' that Nike comes up with attempting to connect the 'heritage of Pittsburgh's work ethic' or some other PR nonsense. Can't wait. Constantly entertaining.
Heather thinks she has to do something just like Barnes that just corrected Pederson's Poison, but heather really needs to stay in Pittsburgh, learn it, and develop Boosters, Sponsors, and support for Coach Narduzzi's Football Program and ALCOA and PPG know all about Aluminum and Glass and how to Re-Develop Properties that can Show Case their Products every Game Day!
I was surprised how inarticulate, unsure and confused on how she answered questions, she needs some Speech Lesson and Improv Training, but has no clue on Pitt Football and going to Nike won't help her, someone gave her some bad advice and I am surprise she cannot think on her own, until she does it and shows it.
She is going to end up looking like Barnes, she will announce her great Nike Study, and then bring them out, and watch as no one cares and just asked questions about how she will update facilities, and won't have any answers?
i can wait to see the one Recruits that chooses Pitt because of Heather Nike Uniforms? Heather is lost if she thinks will make Pitt is It, and she will be gone, just like she Barnes left for OreGONE and she left Eastern Michigan, unless she decides to stay and concentrate on making Pitt Football Prime One Project with Pat Narduzzi.
I do like other changes she is making but it is about Pitt Football, Pederson never got it and worst never had it, Barnes went to his Basketball Consultant and couldn't handle the Press Conference and left to be with Mommy, now Heather has got her eyes on Nike Uniforms Studies, what a bunch of blindness!
The bathrooms are just a microcosm of course, but yes, the lack of Pitt Stadium renovations compared to what other institutions have done over the decades is stunningly stupid. Nobody had the courage to do something about it, so instead we get new logos and colors repeatedly, which fractures the fan base even more, leading to less revenue for the things that matter most, and the cycle continues. And of course, whenever a change is made we don't actually give fans what they want, but end up adding a special touch that isn't what anybody wanted or asked for, like the current "cathedral arch font" uniforms. Of course if Lyke has Nike studying the uniform/logo/color issues again (and I'm just repeating what some have posted here so I'm not sure if that is true) then we aren't likely to get what the fans actually want, once again. Instead we will have something 'cute' that Nike comes up with attempting to connect the 'heritage of Pittsburgh's work ethic' or some other PR nonsense. Can't wait. Constantly entertaining.
Heather thinks she has to do something just like Barnes that just corrected Pederson's Poison, but heather really needs to stay in Pittsburgh, learn it, and develop Boosters, Sponsors, and support for Coach Narduzzi's Football Program and ALCOA and PPG know all about Aluminum and Glass and how to Re-Develop Properties that can Show Case their Products every Game Day!
I was surprised how inarticulate, unsure and confused on how she answered questions, she needs some Speech Lesson and Improv Training, but has no clue on Pitt Football and going to Nike won't help her, someone gave her some bad advice and I am surprise she cannot think on her own, until she does it and shows it.
She is going to end up looking like Barnes, she will announce her great Nike Study, and then bring them out, and watch as no one cares and just asked questions about how she will update facilities, and won't have any answers?
i can wait to see the one Recruits that chooses Pitt because of Heather Nike Uniforms? Heather is lost if she thinks will make Pitt is It, and she will be gone, just like she Barnes left for OreGONE and she left Eastern Michigan, unless she decides to stay and concentrate on making Pitt Football Prime One Project with Pat Narduzzi.
I do like other changes she is making but it is about Pitt Football, Pederson never got it and worst never had it, Barnes went to his Basketball Consultant and couldn't handle the Press Conference and left to be with Mommy, now Heather has got her eyes on Nike Uniforms Studies, what a bunch of blindness!
Uniforms are all about the apparel sales - Pitt and Nike couldn't care less about the impact on recruits.
The same morons who made the uniform decisions cut the refrain out of the Pitt Victory song...an anthem that was a 100 years old...what kind of moron makes those kinds of fan alienating decisions? Disgusting....
A few years ago, I found myself talking to someone within the athletic department about this issue at a birthday party for a mutual friend. Even she couldn't really fathom why we steadfastly refused to return to the traditional logo and colors?
I remember leaving that conversation wondering to myself, "If even one of the principal decision makers within the athletic department doesn't really understand why we are continually making this poor decision, then who is making that decision?"
She was very polite about the whole thing but it was very clear that she agreed with me but had to choose her words carefully.
I remember leaving that conversation wondering to myself, "If even one of the principal decision makers within the athletic department doesn't really understand why we are continually making this poor decision, then who is making that decision?"
She was very polite about the whole thing but it was very clear that she agreed with me but had to choose her words carefully.
