Coach: You need to recruit better

[Sean Miller Fan]

I know its much easier to recruit at Penn State, but your boy in State College has recruited a CFP team while we may be looking at 4-8 or 3-9. Nobody is asking for Top 5 or Top 10 classes but we at least need Wanny-level classes.

More than anything, Narduzzi has to figure out a way to improve recruiting. Per Rivals, Md is 14th, Kentucky is 16th, Louisville is 19th, and Minnesota is 27th. No reason why we cant land a Top 20 or 25 class.

 

[bryanmills]

Finally. Someone who gets it.

 

[PittPoker]

Finally. Someone who gets it.

Oh there are a few people who "get it" but unfortunately, this site is filled with eternal optimists who will claim that we should forget the rankings, that all of Pitt's 2 and 3 star players are hidden gems and will develop fine.

And you know what, if we were in the MAC conference I'd agree. Unfortunately, we are in the ACC where talent matters as much as coaching and Pitt is severely lacking in both those areas.

And with 2018 looking pretty bleak as well so far in terms of recruits, you must be smoking something very strong if you think Pitt will be much better next season.

Narduzzi looks to be too stubborn and clueless about what works these days in college football and in the ACC. His coordinators suck, both of them. And most of his players belong in the MAC. But other than that, yeah hey we have a chance for greatness real soon.

 

[GEORGERDOG]

I know its much easier to recruit at Penn State, but your boy in State College has recruited a CFP team while we may be looking at 4-8 or 3-9. Nobody is asking for Top 5 or Top 10 classes but we at least need Wanny-level classes.

More than anything, Narduzzi has to figure out a way to improve recruiting. Per Rivals, Md is 14th, Kentucky is 16th, Louisville is 19th, and Minnesota is 27th. No reason why we cant land a Top 20 or 25 class.

Bull xxxx! He needs to coach better!

 

[Gep Dawg]

I don't know I'm pretty sure Michigan State never got many 4 or 5 star players and didn't they win the Big 10 and play in big bowl games with his top 10 defense?

I think the problem is his defensive philosophy works better in the B10 where most teams do not have remotely close to to skill position speed we have here in the ACC. It's why we played well again UPS but got torched by Okie State. Same in offense need more movement like we had last year.

Don't get me wrong recruiting more team speed is important too. But he has to find kids who fit the system and if the system isn't right tweak it so it does work against our schedule

 

[TD_istheman]

I don't know I'm pretty sure Michigan State never got many 4 or 5 star players and didn't they win the Big 10 and play in big bowl games with his top 10 defense?

I think the problem is his defensive philosophy works better in the B10 where most teams do not have remotely close to to skill position speed we have here in the ACC. It's why we played well again UPS but got torched by Okie State. Same in offense need more movement like we had last year.

Don't get me wrong recruiting more team speed is important too. But he has to find kids who fit the system and if the system isn't right tweak it so it does work against our schedule

I will make this easy, look at Big Ten team recruiting rankings , on this site or others and then ACC team recruiting rankings, you will get it then. I hope

 

[jt0716]

I have to laugh at the sheep that talk up recruits we beat mac schools for because they choose Pitt. Most boards they wonder what the hell is going on , not screaming IN DUZZ I TRUST. RANKINGS MATTER!

Again, that's just not true. Look at the recruits and their offer sheets. We're not beating mac schools for them. Could it/should it be better? Probably. His first full class was ranked 29th. We get it. You're a typical yinzer that always wants the backup qb, thinks the coach should be fired, blah blah blah. Just quit blabbering untruths.

 

[Cap pitt]

I know its much easier to recruit at Penn State, but your boy in State College has recruited a CFP team while we may be looking at 4-8 or 3-9. Nobody is asking for Top 5 or Top 10 classes but we at least need Wanny-level classes.

More than anything, Narduzzi has to figure out a way to improve recruiting. Per Rivals, Md is 14th, Kentucky is 16th, Louisville is 19th, and Minnesota is 27th. No reason why we cant land a Top 20 or 25 class.

As of the post last week, Oklahoma St does not recruit well, the last 7 or 8 years average mid 30s rankings, and they are a highly ranked team. They are the same type Duzz is recruiting, Pitt just needs the whole team Narduzzi recruits, no leftovers, I believe it will get better. ( replace the whole offensive line, at least the seniors)

 

[Alan Partridge]

Again, that's just not true. Look at the recruits and their offer sheets. We're not beating mac schools for them. Could it/should it be better? Probably. His first full class was ranked 29th. We get it. You're a typical yinzer that always wants the backup qb, thinks the coach should be fired, blah blah blah. Just quit blabbering untruths.

Creating fiction about Pitt football then getting himself all worked up about it resulting in incessant posting spasms here is his forte.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I know its much easier to recruit at Penn State, but your boy in State College has recruited a CFP team while we may be looking at 4-8 or 3-9. Nobody is asking for Top 5 or Top 10 classes but we at least need Wanny-level classes.

More than anything, Narduzzi has to figure out a way to improve recruiting. Per Rivals, Md is 14th, Kentucky is 16th, Louisville is 19th, and Minnesota is 27th. No reason why we cant land a Top 20 or 25 class.

As of the post last week, Oklahoma St does not recruit well, the last 7 or 8 years average mid 30s rankings, and they are a highly ranked team. They are the same type Duzz is recruiting, Pitt just needs the whole team Narduzzi recruits, no leftovers, I believe it will get better. ( replace the whole offensive line, at least the seniors)

And their defense has usually been trash. They have relied on running a system behind, typically, extremely good COLLEGE QB's like Zac Robinson, Brandon Weeden, and Mason Rudolph.

 

[FIVE4PITT]

Look at West Virginia they did not get real high recruiting classes but they're doing well now. Coach needs more time to develop the team after the recent past Pitt has had with coaching hires /fires. He needs to keep recruiting hard.

 

[TD_istheman]

Look at West Virginia they did not get real high recruiting classes but they're doing well now. Coach needs more time to develop the team after the recent past Pitt has had with coaching hires /fires. He needs to keep recruiting hard.

START or KEEP?

 

[Pizzaboy1]

Wait until late WVU gets into the meat of their schedule they'll get smoked!Why? because they havent recruited enough good defensive players.Holgy can't get the good players either.

 

[cashisking884]

I don't know I'm pretty sure Michigan State never got many 4 or 5 star players and didn't they win the Big 10 and play in big bowl games with his top 10 defense?

I think the problem is his defensive philosophy works better in the B10 where most teams do not have remotely close to to skill position speed we have here in the ACC. It's why we played well again UPS but got torched by Okie State. Same in offense need more movement like we had last year.

Don't get me wrong recruiting more team speed is important too. But he has to find kids who fit the system and if the system isn't right tweak it so it does work against our schedule

Exactly.
I'd be willing to bet if you broke down MSU's defensive recruiting vs teams PN was playing on a regular basis, they probably had about the exact same recruiting ranking. Basically it was MSU's low 3* recruits vs other Big Ten teams' low 3* recruits, with Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State being the exceptions.
PN's defense is tailor made for the Big Ten. A bunch of teams that can't recruit from athletic areas. So they load the box and try to smash you and control the ball. PN's defense is designed to flood the box and make you attack it on the outside with your speed and athleticism.

Look at West Virginia they did not get real high recruiting classes but they're doing well now. Coach needs more time to develop the team after the recent past Pitt has had with coaching hires /fires. He needs to keep recruiting hard.

But they haven't been. Since joining the Big XII, they were a few games above .500 before last year. Last year being the year the Big XII was really down.
Basically when WVU moved out of the Big East, their recruiting caught up with them.

 

[cashisking884]

As of the post last week, Oklahoma St does not recruit well, the last 7 or 8 years average mid 30s rankings, and they are a highly ranked team. They are the same type Duzz is recruiting, Pitt just needs the whole team Narduzzi recruits, no leftovers, I believe it will get better. ( replace the whole offensive line, at least the seniors)

That's because for the most part OSU plays a bunch of teams in their recruiting tier.
Looking at recruiting class rankings in a vacuum doesn't make sense, because you have to play other teams. If their recruiting class rankings are in your same recruiting tier, then it doesn't matter if you only rank in the 30's. If everybody else you play is also in the 30's, you all have about the same talent.
The only two teams in a tier or two above OSU in the Big XII are Texas and OU. Texas has sucked so OSU has been able to outperform their recruiting class rankings against them. OU usually destroys OSU every year because they bring in recruiting classes 2 or 3 tiers above OSU.
Right now Miami, UNC, and VT are all in a recruiting tier above the rest of the Coastal. So you'd have to do what OSU doesn't have to do on a yearly basis, and beat multiple teams that outrecruit you.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

I see comments PN needs to recruit better, and he needs to coach better?

Arent those his two main job responsibilities?

If he isn't good at those two things at this time in his life and coaching career "Houston We Have A Problem."

 

[doubleAA's]

Oh there are a few people who "get it" but unfortunately, this site is filled with eternal optimists who will claim that we should forget the rankings, that all of Pitt's 2 and 3 star players are hidden gems and will develop fine.

And you know what, if we were in the MAC conference I'd agree. Unfortunately, we are in the ACC where talent matters as much as coaching and Pitt is severely lacking in both those areas.

And with 2018 looking pretty bleak as well so far in terms of recruits, you must be smoking something very strong if you think Pitt will be much better next season.

Narduzzi looks to be too stubborn and clueless about what works these days in college football and in the ACC. His coordinators suck, both of them. And most of his players belong in the MAC. But other than that, yeah hey we have a chance for greatness real soon.

I dont know why I am responding to you, since I know your frame of reference is a non-pitt fan. But, I literally have never read a single person on here say that 2 and 3 star players are all hidden gems and we will be fine.

In fact, I see the exact opposite, from the negative to the positive posters.

That is itself is huge hyperbole, and pretty dumb, but saying Narduzzi is clueless and coordinators suck. You realize we lost good coordinators each year right? Are you saying it is Narduzzi's job to offer them more money to retain the good ones (by the way, I remember debating you with me defending the Matt Canada hire, and you claiming he was the worst hire every and Narduzzi needs to be fired then)? You talk out of your ass. Again, I know you are a Penn State guy, but enough is enough. You have to at least try to make intelligent post. The 2 people like 'liked' this post, I am assuming are your aliases?

 

[doubleAA's]

I see comments PN needs to recruit better, and he needs to coach better?

Arent those his two main job responsibilities?

If he isn't good at those two things at this time in his life and coaching career "Houston We Have A Problem."

Absolutely, he said he needs to get better at both of these this year.

Obviously he has a long history of being a very very good coach. And last year, did a great job. Recruiting has been very good compared to other Pitt HCs the past 30 years, with the notable exception of Dave Wannstedt, which most on this board hated.

 

[DiehardPanther]

I dont know why I am responding to you, since I know your frame of reference is a non-pitt fan. But, I literally have never read a single person on here say that 2 and 3 star players are all hidden gems and we will be fine.

In fact, I see the exact opposite, from the negative to the positive posters.

That is itself is huge hyperbole, and pretty dumb, but saying Narduzzi is clueless and coordinators suck. You realize we lost good coordinators each year right? Are you saying it is Narduzzi's job to offer them more money to retain the good ones (by the way, I remember debating you with me defending the Matt Canada hire, and you claiming he was the worst hire every and Narduzzi needs to be fired then)? You talk out of your ass. Again, I know you are a Penn State guy, but enough is enough. You have to at least try to make intelligent post. The 2 people like 'liked' this post, I am assuming are your aliases?

He is the same guy who was going nuts after we lost to Wichita State in the tournament. He was calling for Dixon's head at that junction.

 

[Jpripper88]

As of the post last week, Oklahoma St does not recruit well, the last 7 or 8 years average mid 30s rankings, and they are a highly ranked team. They are the same type Duzz is recruiting, Pitt just needs the whole team Narduzzi recruits, no leftovers, I believe it will get better. ( replace the whole offensive line, at least the seniors)

So, that is a wholly different situation. Against their peers in the B12, only 2 teams actually out recruit them: Texas and Oklahoma. Texas has been in shambles the last 7 years with coaching instability and OKState has taken advantage by beating them most of the time. Oklahoma still beats OkState almost all the time. So, for Oklahoma State to win the B12 (they have only done it 1 time) they need to pull 1 upset. Beyond that, their success has correlated with the QB position. Without that, you aren't going to be any good, unless you are supremely talented everywhere else.

The best case you can make for Pitt/HCPN is we are recruiting in the middle of the pack and are behind FSU, Clemson, Miami, VT, and UNC. So, for us to win the ACC, Pitt needs to upset at least 2 teams in division, maybe 1 out of division, and then likely 1 in the ACC CG. That is much, much harder than what OkState is up against.

It is the same issue in the SEC. In the SEC, if you have average the #15 recruiting class in the country you are below average against your competition.

 

[cashisking884]

I've posted this link before, but it's such a great reference to understanding how you should judge recruiting classes, which is not isolated but instead against your competition.

The Big XII recruiting ranking tiers are:

5 star: OU and Texas.

4 star: Nobody

3 star: OSU, WVU, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor,

2 star: Kansas

1 star: Kansas state, Iowa State

ACC recruiting ranking tiers:

5 star: FSU

4 star: Clemson, Miami, VT, UNC

3 star: Pitt, Lville, UVA

2 star: GT, NC State

1 star: Duke, Wake, Boston College, Syracuse

OSU has to play 2 teams in a recruiting tier above them. Texas has been such a dumpster fire, it's completely mitigated their talent advantage. And OU dominates OSU every year because they are a whole two tiers above OSU in talent.
Pitt has 5 teams above them in the recruiting tier. And this study ended with the 2013 class. Clemson has since moved into the 5 star tier. And Miami under Richt looks like they are about to recruit in that tier. At the very least Miami, VT, and UNC will be on the schedule every year. You have to figure one of Clemson or FSU will be waiting in ACCC game. And then there are the years when one of Clemson and FSU are the cross-divisional game.
Basically, people saying "lets just be Oklahoma State" don't understand what is actually allowing Oklahoma State to be successful relative to their conference. And even under the "Oklahoma State" model, the path in the ACC is far more difficult than what Oklahoma State faces.

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2...-matters-why-the-sites-get-the-rankings-right

 

[pittdoc57]

Too many of you are tilting at windmills and splitting hairs. The bottom line is, you have to recruit a lot of 4 star players, period. If you don't, and you win, it is an accident. And it is an accident that doesn't get repeated.

If a coach is so good that he is constantly coaching up 2-3 star players into a situation where they are beating the teams that are all 4-stars, then they move up to those teams. That's how rare it is. And nobody can name a single exception.

Bottom line is, in college football, you have to be able to recruit, period. There are plenty of guys who can recruit, but can't coach, and they get fired but rehired all the time. The guys who can't recruit get fired, and they hardly ever get rehired at that level.

If Narduzzi, or Franklin, or Holgerson, or whomever can't recruit players, then they are on life support, period. Any other statement to the contrary is wishful thinking.

 

[Pittfan85]

I'm not a big fan of recruiting rankings, but am a fan of judging recruits and classes 3 years down the road.

The early returns for narduzzi, frankly, are alarming.

 

[sibleyfan91]

I'm not a big fan of recruiting rankings, but am a fan of judging recruits and classes 3 years down the road.

The early returns for narduzzi, frankly, are alarming.

I'm pretty disappointed that guys like Pugh and Pine weren't automatically better choices than the LB this year. Heck, last year too.

Makes you wonder of the true coach - em - up ability of the guy and staff. As in, there may not be any.

 

[joeydavid]

Please list the recruits that only had MAC offers under HCPN.


Or simply admit you have no idea what you are talking about.

I have to laugh at the sheep that talk up recruits we beat mac schools for because they choose Pitt. Most boards they wonder what the hell is going on , not screaming IN DUZZ I TRUST. RANKINGS MATTER!

 

[revampedpanthers]

Too many of you are tilting at windmills and splitting hairs. The bottom line is, you have to recruit a lot of 4 star players, period. If you don't, and you win, it is an accident. And it is an accident that doesn't get repeated.

If a coach is so good that he is constantly coaching up 2-3 star players into a situation where they are beating the teams that are all 4-stars, then they move up to those teams. That's how rare it is. And nobody can name a single exception.

Bottom line is, in college football, you have to be able to recruit, period. There are plenty of guys who can recruit, but can't coach, and they get fired but rehired all the time. The guys who can't recruit get fired, and they hardly ever get rehired at that level.

If Narduzzi, or Franklin, or Holgerson, or whomever can't recruit players, then they are on life support, period. Any other statement to the contrary is wishful thinking.

Wisconsin is one example of a team that has won for a long time without recruiting well. WVU has consistently outperformed their typical dismal recruiting. There are others. It's similar to a small market baseball team it can be done its just harder

 

[bobfree]

His recruiting could be better but I don't think that's the main issue....

His schemes are an issue, player development seems to be an issue. Who's better than they were last year? I honestly don't see one person who has shown even a little improvement besides Lopes, Moss, and Hamlin. Possibly Maddox.

We look slower, less motivated, less prepared.

Very disappointing.

 

[jt0716]

Please list the recruits that only had MAC offers under HCPN.


Or simply admit you have no idea what you are talking about.

He has no idea. None.

 

[Pittfan85]

Wisconsin is one example of a team that has won for a long time without recruiting well. WVU has consistently outperformed their typical dismal recruiting. There are others. It's similar to a small market baseball team it can be done its just harder

You have to run a scheme and system that is gimmicky, at least on offense, to mask the talent deficiencies.

On defense, well, you can't put bad corners in man coverage constantly.

 

[pittdoc57]

Wisconsin is one example of a team that has won for a long time without recruiting well. WVU has consistently outperformed their typical dismal recruiting. There are others. It's similar to a small market baseball team it can be done its just harder

Andersen went to Oregon State. Bielema went to Arkansas. It's true that the Wisconsin system as run by Alvarez is successful, but the coaches leave.

Point taken, though. Wisconsin is an interesting outlier.

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

Andersen went to Oregon State. Bielema went to Arkansas. It's true that the Wisconsin system as run by Alvarez is successful, but the coaches leave.

Point taken, though. Wisconsin is an interesting outlier.

TCU, Okie State, Stanford, among others.

 

[bobfree]

I'm not a huge breakfast guy.

Cherrios once and awhile

 

[pittdoc57]

TCU, Okie State, Stanford, among others.

Stanford is usually in the teens. TCU is usually in the 20's. Pitt isn't close to them.

Oklahoma State does seem to get good value out of their recruiting.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Wisconsin is one example of a team that has won for a long time without recruiting well. WVU has consistently outperformed their typical dismal recruiting. There are others. It's similar to a small market baseball team it can be done its just harder

So you are saying, that because a neighbor wins the lottery and retires, then that should be your retirement plan?

 

[cashisking884]

Andersen went to Oregon State. Bielema went to Arkansas. It's true that the Wisconsin system as run by Alvarez is successful, but the coaches leave.

Point taken, though. Wisconsin is an interesting outlier.

Wisconsin is one example of a team that has won for a long time without recruiting well. WVU has consistently outperformed their typical dismal recruiting. There are others. It's similar to a small market baseball team it can be done its just harder

But Wisconsin is not an outlier. People keep pointing to these teams like OSU and WI that are suppose to go against the norm, but they don't.

Here are the recruiting tiers in the Big Ten:

5 star: OSU, MI
4 star: Nebraska, Penn State
3 star: Iowa, Michigan State, Rutgers, MD
2 star: WI, Ill, IU, Minn, NW, Purdue,
1 star: None

Here is Wisconsin's schedule broken down by tiers:

1. 1 star
2. 1 star
3. 2 star
4. 2 star
5. 4 star
6. 2 star
7. 3 star
8. 2 star
9. 2 star
10. 3 star
11. 5 star
12. 2 star

They play 4 games all year against teams that outrecruit them. That's it. Even if they split those games, that's a 10 win season if they take care of the rest. And that's going by the 2013 study. Nebraska's recruiting tier has since fallen since then. So they are now a 3 star tier. Which is still above Wisconsin, but not as bad.
Their coaches deserve a lot of credit for routinely beating the 2 star and below teams that dominate their schedule, but they do not routinely outperform their recruiting tier.

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2...-matters-why-the-sites-get-the-rankings-right

 

[Jpripper88]

Wisconsin is one example of a team that has won for a long time without recruiting well. WVU has consistently outperformed their typical dismal recruiting. There are others. It's similar to a small market baseball team it can be done its just harder

Wisconsin doesn't. They beat the teams they are on the same level with and almost always lose to the teams with better talent.

WVU won when their competition was the same or worse than they were. The only BE team with really better recruiting rankings was us and we had Dave Wannstedt as HC.

 

[Jpripper88]

But Wisconsin is not an outlier. People keep pointing to these teams like OSU and WI that are suppose to go against the norm, but they don't.

Here are the recruiting tiers in the Big Ten:

5 star: OSU, MI
4 star: Nebraska, Penn State
3 star: Iowa, Michigan State, Rutgers, MD
2 star: WI, Ill, IU, Minn, NW, Purdue,
1 star: None

Here is Wisconsin's schedule broken down by tiers:

1. 1 star
2. 1 star
3. 2 star
4. 2 star
5. 4 star
6. 2 star
7. 3 star
8. 2 star
9. 2 star
10. 3 star
11. 5 star
12. 2 star

They play 4 games all year against teams that outrecruit them. That's it. Even if they split those games, that's a 10 win season if they take care of the rest. And that's going by the 2013 study. Nebraska's recruiting tier has since fallen since then. So they are now a 3 star tier. Which is still above Wisconsin, but not as bad.
Their coaches deserve a lot of credit for routinely beating the 2 star and below teams that dominate their schedule, but they do not routinely outperform their recruiting tier.

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2...-matters-why-the-sites-get-the-rankings-right

Yep. And I would say Wisconsin has probably moved up to the 3 star tier.

If we follow the same results, with our schedule, our ceiling is 8-4 and no chance to win the ACC.

 

[cashisking884]

Wisconsin doesn't. They beat the teams they are on the same level with and almost always lose to the teams with better talent.

WVU won when their competition was the same or worse than they were. The only BE team with really better recruiting rankings was us and we had Dave Wannstedt as HC.

We're at that point that baseball was a few years ago. When we had this wealth of advanced metrics developing, but people weren't fully exposed to them or understanding them yet, so we still had "batting average" being used as the standard for a good hitter.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I'm not a big fan of recruiting rankings, but am a fan of judging recruits and classes 3 years down the road.

The early returns for narduzzi, frankly, are alarming.

If this is truly how you feel, they how on earth can judge the early returns as alarming? Based on your own criteria, you should be judging the 2015 class this year. He had one month to recruit his guys into that class.

Again, by your criteria (which I tend to agree with), you'll judge his first full class of 2016 next year. A lot of these guys are already seeing significant playing time.

 

[Pittfan85]

If this is truly how you feel, they how on earth can judge the early returns as alarming? Based on your own criteria, you should be judging the 2015 class this year. He had one month to recruit his guys into that class.

Again, by your criteria (which I tend to agree with), you'll judge his first full class of 2016 next year. A lot of these guys are already seeing significant playing time.

Hopefully they progress and start to play better. They are either RS Sophs or juniors at this point, and the early returns on them are alarming. I know that by year 3 chryst's first class was producing WAY more.