Corhen pulled down 2 boards tonight

[Sean Miller Fan]

And he held Ndongo under 20 rebounds. Only 17.

I am wondering under what circumstances you would actually take Corhen back next season. Like let's say he absolutely loves it here and desperately wanted to come back, I guess I would for $0 NIL and let him know that he will play 5-10 MPG in a backup role. He is very possibly the worst rebounding big in Pitt history. And he is a below average defender. What a miss!!!

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

His two rebounds were one, when he didn't even grab the ball he tipped it to a teammate (and I'm not saying he shouldn't get credit for that, just that he couldn't even actually grab it himself) and the other was on a missed Georgia Tech foul shot.

There were at least two times in the second half when he had perfect position with Ndongo on his back and the rebound actually came down in front of him and he still couldn't manage to get the ball before Ndongo got all the way around him and grabbed it. There might be a worse rebounding big in Pitt history, but I can't think of who it would be off the top of my head. And I really don't feel like contemplating something so depressing.

 

[PittAU]

Jerome Lane:
at a very generous 6’6”, averaged 5.1 rebounds per game in 1985-86. (Edited from my mistake of 9.1 RPG)
at a very generous 6’6”, averaged 13.5 rebounds per game in 1986-87.
at a very generous 6’6”, averaged 12.2 rebounds per game in 1987-88.

Jerome averaged, his sophomore and junior seasons, 5.3 offensive rebounds per game. Our leading offensive rebounder this season is GDG with 1.857 ORPG.

In 93 games J Lane averaged 10.4 rebounds per game

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

His two rebounds were one, when he didn't even grab the ball he tipped it to a teammate (and I'm not saying he shouldn't get credit for that, just that he couldn't even actually grab it himself) and the other was on a missed Georgia Tech foul shot.

There were at least two times in the second half when he had perfect position with Ndongo on his back and the rebound actually came down in front of him and he still couldn't manage to get the ball before Ndongo got all the way around him and grabbed it. There might be a worse rebounding big in Pitt history, but I can't think of who it would be off the top of my head. And I really don't feel like contemplating something so depressing.

Capel basically reiterated my take on rebounding by saying his best rebounders never even boxed out. He said Blake Griffin never boxed out. Same with Champagnie. They just had a knack for it. Ndongo is the same say. Some guys can just do it, regardless of size. Its an instinct. Yes, you should box out. But you can either rebound or you can't. Its not something you can coach or develop.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Capel basically reiterated my take on rebounding by saying his best rebounders never even boxed out. He said Blake Griffin never boxed out. Same with Champagnie. They just had a knack for it. Ndongo is the same say. Some guys can just do it, regardless of size. Its an instinct. Yes, you should box out. But you can either rebound or you can't. Its not something you can coach or develop.

The best rebounders have an instinct for it. They see the shot and can tell in their head where the ball is going to go before it goes there. That's why the ball seems to follow them.

However, there are a lot of good rebounders who don't have that kind of instinct. They make up for it by being technically sound and working their ass off. And you absolutely can coach and develop that.

And then there are other rebounders who don't have an instinct for it and who aren't technically sound and who don't work their ass off. And those guys take 30+ minutes to get their first rebound of the game, and get two total rebounds while their counterpart on the other team is busy pulling down 17 of them.

 

[DT_PITT]

Jerome Lane:
at a very generous 6’6”, averaged 9.1 rebounds per game in 1985-86.
at a very generous 6’6”, averaged 13.5 rebounds per game in 1986-87.
at a very generous 6’6”, averaged 12.2 rebounds per game in 1987-88.

In 93 games he averaged 10.4 rebounds per game

FWIW, Blair was a pretty generous 6-7 and we know how he rebounded also.

Also, small correction. Lane averaged 9.1 POINTS per game in 87-86, but 5.1 rebounds.

It's nothing short of remarkable at times how Cam cannot get to rebounds.

 

[DT_PITT]

The best rebounders have an instinct for it. They see the shot and can tell in their head where the ball is going to go before it goes there. That's why the ball seems to follow them.

However, there are a lot of good rebounders who don't have that kind of instinct. They make up for it by being technically sound and working their ass off. And you absolutely can coach and develop that.

And then there are other rebounders who don't have an instinct for it and who aren't technically sound and who don't work their ass off. And those guys take 30+ minutes to get their first rebound of the game, and get two total rebounds while their counterpart on the other team is busy pulling down 17 of them.

I also think that Cam is not a particularly quick jumper and doesn't have great hands.

Blair used to be able to suck down rebounds out of the air.

 

[PittAU]

FWIW, Blair was a pretty generous 6-7 and we know how he rebounded also.

Also, small correction. Lane averaged 9.1 POINTS per game in 87-86, but 5.1 rebounds.

It's nothing short of remarkable at times how Cam cannot get to rebounds.

Yup, my mistake on his freshman season.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I also think that Cam is not a particularly quick jumper and doesn't have great hands.

Blair used to be able to suck down rebounds out of the air.

Yes, but that goes under instincts. The best rebounder are able to get off the floor at the exact right time to time when the ball will be in the perfect spot to grab it. Ndongo didn't practice this in a Senagalese gym his whole life. He just has the instinct. Corhen and many other guys do not. Corhen has terrible rebounding instincts. It's just not something he can do and there is no possible way you can bring him back. Perhaps more than anything, the decision to sign him over other potential transfers is the reason for this failure.

 

[PittPoker]

And he held Ndongo under 20 rebounds. Only 17.

I am wondering under what circumstances you would actually take Corhen back next season. Like let's say he absolutely loves it here and desperately wanted to come back, I guess I would for $0 NIL and let him know that he will play 5-10 MPG in a backup role. He is very possibly the worst rebounding big in Pitt history. And he is a below average defender. What a miss!!!

Nobody should be back except for Cummings and Amsal(but he won't be) and perhaps Kante. Get rid of the rest of them.

 

[PittPoker]

His two rebounds were one, when he didn't even grab the ball he tipped it to a teammate (and I'm not saying he shouldn't get credit for that, just that he couldn't even actually grab it himself) and the other was on a missed Georgia Tech foul shot.

There were at least two times in the second half when he had perfect position with Ndongo on his back and the rebound actually came down in front of him and he still couldn't manage to get the ball before Ndongo got all the way around him and grabbed it. There might be a worse rebounding big in Pitt history, but I can't think of who it would be off the top of my head. And I really don't feel like contemplating something so depressing.

Terrell Brown maybe?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Terrell Brown maybe?

I did think of him. They were pretty similar but I remember Brown being a half-decent offensive rebounder.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Nobody should be back except for Cummings and Amsal(but he won't be) and perhaps Kante. Get rid of the rest of them.

I'd take Lowe back as the 2 guard.

 

[SteelBowl70]

I'd take Lowe back as the 2 guard.

I expect he will transfer with Cam and play lights out somewhere else next year

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I expect he will transfer with Cam and play lights out somewhere else next year

Yes but I think Lowe goes to a better program. Corhen will transfer down. Maybe A10 level or maybe there's a good team who brings him in for depth but he can't be a starter on a good team at the major D1 level.

 

[Upg bobcat]

Capel basically reiterated my take on rebounding by saying his best rebounders never even boxed out. He said Blake Griffin never boxed out. Same with Champagnie. They just had a knack for it. Ndongo is the same say. Some guys can just do it, regardless of size. Its an instinct. Yes, you should box out. But you can either rebound or you can't. Its not something you can coach or develop.

A player with a good "box out" isn't necessary a good rebounder in terms of the stat sheet. But the guy they are guarding won't grab 15+ boards. It's also true that a guy can log huge rebounding stats without being a good boxer outer. Cam is neither, unfortunately.

 

[JS School]

Ironically, 2 is the number of rebounds Corhen had in a game and is also the number of dollars SMF would like to pay to attend a game.

 

[pittchagg]

Yes but I think Lowe goes to a better program. Corhen will transfer down. Maybe A10 level or maybe there's a good team who brings him in for depth but he can't be a starter on a good team at the major D1 level.

I think there will be some other outdated high major staff out there who will be enamored with Corhen’s interior scoring percentage and think that they can fix the rest of it just like our outdated staff did. John Hugley has been at two high major schools since he left here. Someone will see the scoring and bite.

 

[JS School]

I think there will be some other outdated high major staff out there who will be enamored with Corhen’s interior scoring percentage and think that they can fix the rest of it just like our outdated staff did. John Hugley has been at two high major schools since he left here. Someone will see the scoring and bite.

Corhen could be of some value to a team that has good interior defenders but who struggle offensively.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Terrell Brown maybe?

I think Brown was probably a little better, but yeah, he's a possibility.

 

[Pittisit4me]

And he held Ndongo under 20 rebounds. Only 17.

I am wondering under what circumstances you would actually take Corhen back next season. Like let's say he absolutely loves it here and desperately wanted to come back, I guess I would for $0 NIL and let him know that he will play 5-10 MPG in a backup role. He is very possibly the worst rebounding big in Pitt history. And he is a below average defender. What a miss!!!

I wouldn't take him back unless he agreed to pay back the NIL he got this year, and since he wouldn't do this, I wouldn't take him under any circumstances. He is a low motor, low basketball IQ player. He really gives you nothing. Any offense he gives you is more than negated by his inability to rebound or defend. Most of the fouls he commits are really stupid as well. He just doesn't have the mental or physical makeup to be successful. Calling him a miss is being polite.
Capel has been a serious clownshow when it comes to bringing in a real 5. We need physicality and defense from our 5, not scoring. Bring in a man! I dont care if he breaks the backboard with 10 foot jumpers if he can move, defend hard, and protect the rim.

 

[Pittisit4me]

I expect he will transfer with Cam and play lights out somewhere else next year

I don't doubt that at all. Lowe is talented. He will look great playing with some legit talent around him. Other than Leggett, he has nobody he can count on to finish anything here. I think he figured that out when the conference season began and since then decided he would need to shoot more and be a scorer. Unfortunately for him, he hasn't been able to carry the load.

 

[20-20Hindsight]

I recall Jerome Lane wanting to play point guard (or point forward) when Paul Evans was hired as HC. By all accounts, Evans told him that if he wanted the ball, then he needed to go and get it on the boards. The next two years, he did exactly that, and led the country in rebounding.

During stretches of the game last night, I couldn't believe my eyes when GT would get an offensive board with 3 Pitt players under the hoop. So I rewound some of those instances, and watched in slow motion - dumbfounded at how no Pitt player moved their feet at all, and certainly didn't look to put a body on someone. While instincts certainly help a great deal when it comes to rebounding, desire, effort and physicality are still the most important attributes in my opinion. Other than Ish, and often Austin, I see too many instances of guys not moving their feet and certainly not putting a body on anyone. It's a lack of desire.

The bottom line for this team is a lack of leadership and accountability. I don't see anyone getting upset out on the court, I don't see anyone trying to fire up themselves or other teammates. And I don't see anyone riding the bench when they consistently screw up or don't play with the energy needed. In fact, the only time I see anyone ride the bench is when they get into foul trouble. And that in itself has looked like a problem as well. Guys seem to know the only time they'll sit is if they get a couple of early fouls. So, it looks like they've found the answer to avoid the fouls - just don't play with any physicality or sense of urgency.

 

[Pittisit4me]

I recall Jerome Lane wanting to play point guard (or point forward) when Paul Evans was hired as HC. By all accounts, Evans told him that if he wanted the ball, then he needed to go and get it on the boards. The next two years, he did exactly that, and led the country in rebounding.

During stretches of the game last night, I couldn't believe my eyes when GT would get an offensive board with 3 Pitt players under the hoop. So I rewound some of those instances, and watched in slow motion - dumbfounded at how no Pitt player moved their feet at all, and certainly didn't look to put a body on someone. While instincts certainly help a great deal when it comes to rebounding, desire, effort and physicality are still the most important attributes in my opinion. Other than Ish, and often Austin, I see too many instances of guys not moving their feet and certainly not putting a body on anyone. It's a lack of desire.

The bottom line for this team is a lack of leadership and accountability. I don't see anyone getting upset out on the court, I don't see anyone trying to fire up themselves or other teammates. And I don't see anyone riding the bench when they consistently screw up or don't play with the energy needed. In fact, the only time I see anyone ride the bench is when they get into foul trouble. And that in itself has looked like a problem as well. Guys seem to know the only time they'll sit is if they get a couple of early fouls. So, it looks like they've found the answer to avoid the fouls - just don't play with any physicality or sense of urgency.

Agree with your post. This team sorely lacks aggression, energy, and competitiveness. Some of that is on Capel, but, some of these guys just go through the motions and that is on them. I have seen no desperation at anytime during this horrible stretch to make me think they really want to win.

 

[Pap45]

Capel basically reiterated my take on rebounding by saying his best rebounders never even boxed out. He said Blake Griffin never boxed out. Same with Champagnie. They just had a knack for it. Ndongo is the same say. Some guys can just do it, regardless of size. Its an instinct. Yes, you should box out. But you can either rebound or you can't. Its not something you can coach or develop.

Rebounding is largely an effort thing. If youre willing to scrap and throw your body around you can get some rebounds

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I recall Jerome Lane wanting to play point guard (or point forward) when Paul Evans was hired as HC. By all accounts, Evans told him that if he wanted the ball, then he needed to go and get it on the boards. The next two years, he did exactly that, and led the country in rebounding.

During stretches of the game last night, I couldn't believe my eyes when GT would get an offensive board with 3 Pitt players under the hoop. So I rewound some of those instances, and watched in slow motion - dumbfounded at how no Pitt player moved their feet at all, and certainly didn't look to put a body on someone. While instincts certainly help a great deal when it comes to rebounding, desire, effort and physicality are still the most important attributes in my opinion. Other than Ish, and often Austin, I see too many instances of guys not moving their feet and certainly not putting a body on anyone. It's a lack of desire.

The bottom line for this team is a lack of leadership and accountability. I don't see anyone getting upset out on the court, I don't see anyone trying to fire up themselves or other teammates. And I don't see anyone riding the bench when they consistently screw up or don't play with the energy needed. In fact, the only time I see anyone ride the bench is when they get into foul trouble. And that in itself has looked like a problem as well. Guys seem to know the only time they'll sit is if they get a couple of early fouls. So, it looks like they've found the answer to avoid the fouls - just don't play with any physicality or sense of urgency.

I would say rebounding is 80%-90% natural instincts/God given attributes that can't be taught. 10%-20% effort/fundamentals/boxing out.

This team has no one with natural rebounding instincts so it was always going to be a challenge even if these guys played hard as heck and had the most fundamentally sound box outs.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I would say rebounding is 80%-90% natural instincts/God given attributes that can't be taught.

You would say that, but you would be wrong.

 

[Franb]

You would say that, but you would be wrong.

It always amazes me when people put a percentage on something that is not possible to measure.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It always amazes me when people put a percentage on something that is not possible to measure.

I'm trying to figure out a witty way to throw a ridiculous percentage on something in reply here, but I am coming up empty.

😟

 

[Cap pitt]

I believe that corhen plays hard, has a nice shot inside, but has a challenged vertical leap, gets pushed around, no body strength. Does not play to the appearance of his physical body

 

[Upg bobcat]

I believe that corhen plays hard, has a nice shot inside, but has a challenged vertical leap, gets pushed around, no body strength. Does not play to the appearance of his physical body

You left out that he is very slow or at least runs the court poorly.

The bottom line for this team is a lack of leadership and accountability. I don't see anyone getting upset out on the court, I don't see anyone trying to fire up themselves or other teammates. And I don't see anyone riding the bench when they consistently screw up or don't play with the energy needed. In fact, the only time I see anyone ride the bench is when they get into foul trouble. And that in itself has looked like a problem as well. Guys seem to know the only time they'll sit is if they get a couple of early fouls. So, it looks like they've found the answer to avoid the fouls - just don't play with any physicality or sense of urgency.

This is so true. With respect to the foul trouble issue, they do seem to avoid fouls. I can't tell you how many times the other team has one guy on a fast break and we have one guy back ... I'm thinking to myself "just hack him and send him to the line and make him earn it, or better yet try and steal the ball before him gets to shooting and foul him on the floor." But we are so scared of picking up fouls that I don't think I've ever seen us do that once all year, we always just give them the lay-up. Another part of the problem is that our guys generally seem very weak physically so perhaps they lack the ability to foul someone so hard that they can't get a shot off.

 

[Black_Man_Panther]

It's nothing short of remarkable at times how Cam cannot get to rebounds.

It's no big mystery. I'm shocked none of you actually listen to Capel's press conferences but give him credit, he is honest and he knows basketball (despite what many on here think). He literally said (correctly), rebounding is effort and desire. He continued on saying, we obviously have neither. He finished up saying he could continue running drills with them but it would not matter.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It's no big mystery. I'm shocked none of you actually listen to Capel's press conferences but give him credit, he is honest and he knows basketball (despite what many on here think). He literally said (correctly), rebounding is effort and desire. He continued on saying, we obviously have neither. He finished up saying he could continue running drills with them but it would not matter.

Its only partly effort and desire. I can't rebound well at the D1 level no matter how much effort I give. Cam doesn't have the natural instincts. Even if he gave max effort he'd only rebound marginally better. He is very slow to get off the floor and never seems to be in the right spot to grab a rebound.

 

[Pittisit4me]

Its only partly effort and desire. I can't rebound well at the D1 level no matter how much effort I give. Cam doesn't have the natural instincts. Even if he gave max effort he'd only rebound marginally better. He is very slow to get off the floor and never seems to be in the right spot to grab a rebound.

Let me make it simple for you. Wherever he is underneath, he expects the ball to come to him. He never works to go to it. He is afraid to use his body. The next time he boxes someone out will be his first. He is lazy, he is weak, and he is not aggressive. There is no place for him to play well at this level. I also think he is mentally weak because it appears he can't be motivated or taught to make a weakness better. It is as if he doesn't understand that as a 5, one of your biggest jobs is to dominate the glass.

 

[Thee Jackie Treehorn]

I'm trying to figure out a witty way to throw a ridiculous percentage on something in reply here, but I am coming up empty.

😟

We could plagiarize Yogi Berra. Rebounding is 110% natural instincts. The other half is all desire.

 

[Black_Man_Panther]

Its only partly effort and desire. I can't rebound well at the D1 level no matter how much effort I give.

It is statements like this which is why no one takes you seriously. Act like a grownup.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It's no big mystery. I'm shocked none of you actually listen to Capel's press conferences but give him credit, he is honest and he knows basketball (despite what many on here think). He literally said (correctly), rebounding is effort and desire. He continued on saying, we obviously have neither. He finished up saying he could continue running drills with them but it would not matter.

And yet he keeps sending the same players out there who play with no effort or desire.

In life, you tend to get what you reward. And when you reward lack of effort and desire with playing time, all you are going to get is lack of effort and desire.