Dakich: Organized AAU

[Sean Miller Fan]

Dan Dakich: ‘College Hoops Is Spiraling Towards Organizing AAU’

Jay Wright, 60, retired as head coach of the Villanova University men's basketball team late Wednesday night. Considering his run of success and relatively young age, Wright’s deci

www.outkick.com

Spot on. I get it that Joe, Ski, and PharmaBro like the pick-up/AAU ball college basketball has become but fans of the sport do not.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Dan Dakich: ‘College Hoops Is Spiraling Towards Organizing AAU’

Jay Wright, 60, retired as head coach of the Villanova University men's basketball team late Wednesday night. Considering his run of success and relatively young age, Wright’s deci

www.outkick.com

Spot on. I get it that Joe, Ski, and PharmaBro like the pick-up/AAU ball college basketball has become but fans of the sport do not.

He's a former coach who is still friends with lots of coaches. Color me shocked that he doesn't like something that makes a coach's job more difficult.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

He's a former coach who is still friends with lots of coaches. Color me shocked that he doesn't like something that makes a coach's job more difficult.

Nobody likes it except you 3. I agree coaches have it the most difficult now and I have no sympathy for them. But the paying customers don't want to see pick-up ball

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Nobody likes it except you 3.

It's not that I "like" it, it's that I recognize that it's what is right.

You think that your entertainment is more important than doing what is right. And I get that. It's no surprise that someone as self-centered as yourself thinks that way.

 

[thebadby2]

He's a former coach who is still friends with lots of coaches. Color me shocked that he doesn't like something that makes a coach's job more difficult.

This is such a false and misguided narrative. This lazy overpaid coaches trying to protect their fiefdom B.S..

maybe these coaches think that the recent developments have irreparably torn the fabric of the sport they love and have spent their entire lives immersed in.

Nah, it’s just that “now their jobs are harder”. Which is utter nonsense. If anything, coaches’ jobs are easier. Now a coach doesn’t have to spend his time and career building a program “brick by brick” to quote someone we know, he can grab a few 1-2 year guys from the portal and maybe have a decent year or two with them even if he isn’t much of a coach.

That’s great. What an improvement.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It's not that I "like" it, it's that I recognize that it's what is right.

You think that your entertainment is more important than doing what is right. And I get that. It's no surprise that someone as self-centered as yourself thinks that way.

They should do what the customers want. And I'm not sure its right for these kids to be attending 3-4 different colleges.

 

[Drew1208]

They should do what the customers want. And I'm not sure its right for these kids to be attending 3-4 different colleges.

giving them the freedom and choice to do what they want with their lives even if it's a mistake is the right thing.
Guys paying money to watch a sport should dictate nothing to another man's life choices

 

[levance2]

They should do what the customers want. And I'm not sure its right for these kids to be attending 3-4 different colleges.

If the fans abandon the sport, that is probably a good thing.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

This is such a false and misguided narrative. This lazy overpaid coaches trying to protect their fiefdom B.S..

What is BS is people who think that the entertainment value that they get out of something is more important that doing what is right.

You would NEVER go to work for an employer who made you sign a contract that told you that if you didn't like your job, too bad, you weren't allowed to quit and take a job somewhere else. Why do you think that college athletes should be held to a higher standard than you would ever hold yourself to?

And I've asked this before and no one has ever given an answer, so I'll ask again. If allowing basketball players and football players to transfer without having to sit out a year is going to destroy basketball and football, why hasn't it destroyed all the other sports that have had that exact rule for a long, long time? If one free transfer kills basketball, why hasn't it already killed wrestling and volleyball and soccer and baseball and all the rest? Are soccer coaches simply better equipped to handle this than basketball coaches? Is there something inherently different about people who coach wrestling rather than football that enables them to hold their teams together better?

Or is it just that all those other coaches have figured out what they need to do to keep their teams together and they get on with it, rather than complain that allowing the players the same freedom that they have is just too hard?

 

[joeydavid]

If the fans abandon the sport, that is probably a good thing.

Interested has been waning and the recent developments are accelerating the problem.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Giving 18 year olds that kind of power is not good. Sorry. And Joe, it is about the product. You could care less about them if they were simply Chem majors. Let's face it, that is the only thing we care about. The only reason why these kids are even known to us. And is that pathetic? No. It's a sport. The sport is the product and the product is getting destroyed. So yeah, that's a problem. The fact that these kids can basically run away from any, even the most meager of academic requirements will be a problem.

What I don't want to hear in 10 years, some sort of 60 Minutes or Jimmy Roberts ESPN boo hoo piece on how these kids got nothing out of their education and they want to sue these institutions. Sorry. Nope. Keep digging those ditches. You can cry when it is break time, now keep on digging.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Sorry. And Joe, it is about the product. You could care less about them if they were simply Chem majors. Let's face it, that is the only thing we care about.

So your point is that because we care about athletes more than people who are simply Chemistry majors that we should put restrictions on athletes that we would never even think about putting on Chemistry majors? Would anyone ever try to tell a Chemistry major yeah, to can transfer from Penn State to Pitt, but for your first year at Pitt you aren't allowed to participate in anything other than going to class. No joining any professional societies, no joining any fraternal groups for chemistry majors, nothing other than going to class and studying?

Of course we wouldn't. So your argument boils down to exactly what I said. You care more about your entertainment than you do about doing what is right for the entertainers.

 

[thebadby2]

What is BS is people who think that the entertainment value that they get out of something is more important that doing what is right.

You would NEVER go to work for an employer who made you sign a contract that told you that if you didn't like your job, too bad, you weren't allowed to quit and take a job somewhere else. Why do you think that college athletes should be held to a higher standard than you would ever hold yourself to?

And I've asked this before and no one has ever given an answer, so I'll ask again. If allowing basketball players and football players to transfer without having to sit out a year is going to destroy basketball and football, why hasn't it destroyed all the other sports that have had that exact rule for a long, long time? If one free transfer kills basketball, why hasn't it already killed wrestling and volleyball and soccer and baseball and all the rest? Are soccer coaches simply better equipped to handle this than basketball coaches? Is there something inherently different about people who coach wrestling rather than football that enables them to hold their teams together better?

Or is it just that all those other coaches have figured out what they need to do to keep their teams together and they get on with it, rather than complain that allowing the players the same freedom that they have is just too hard?

And I’ll ask you this-how has the transfer portal made coaches jobs harder? That’s your retort every time a prominent coach bitches about it. So please explain how the portal operates to make his or any other coach’s job “harder”?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

giving them the freedom and choice to do what they want with their lives even if it's a mistake is the right thing.
Guys paying money to watch a sport should dictate nothing to another man's life choices

I hate this narrative. They always had freedom and choice. Nobody ever said they were forbidden to transfer. Just sit a year and focus on academics while living for free. That's a heck of a good deal for a 20 year old kid.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

What is BS is people who think that the entertainment value that they get out of something is more important that doing what is right.

You would NEVER go to work for an employer who made you sign a contract that told you that if you didn't like your job, too bad, you weren't allowed to quit and take a job somewhere else. Why do you think that college athletes should be held to a higher standard than you would ever hold yourself to?

And I've asked this before and no one has ever given an answer, so I'll ask again. If allowing basketball players and football players to transfer without having to sit out a year is going to destroy basketball and football, why hasn't it destroyed all the other sports that have had that exact rule for a long, long time? If one free transfer kills basketball, why hasn't it already killed wrestling and volleyball and soccer and baseball and all the rest? Are soccer coaches simply better equipped to handle this than basketball coaches? Is there something inherently different about people who coach wrestling rather than football that enables them to hold their teams together better?

Or is it just that all those other coaches have figured out what they need to do to keep their teams together and they get on with it, rather than complain that allowing the players the same freedom that they have is just too hard?

1. They were always allowed to transfer. I dont know what you are talking about. No one was forcing those kids to remain at their school against their will.

2. Please stop comparing basketball and football to Olympic sports. Nobody cares about Olympic sports. The majority of those kids are true students who just happen to play a sport. They make their decisions based a lot on academics, campus life, etc.

3. Olympic sports athletes should also sit a year

 

[Drew1208]

I hate this narrative. They always had freedom and choice. Nobody ever said they were forbidden to transfer. Just sit a year and focus on academics while living for free. That's a heck of a good deal for a 20 year old kid.

In what other world is a scenario like this even a thing?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

And I’ll ask you this-how has the transfer portal made coaches jobs harder? That’s your retort every time a prominent coach bitches about it. So please explain how the portal operates to make his or any other coach’s job “harder”?

Well first of all, THEY obviously think it's made their jobs harder. The fact that you don't realize that says a lot about how much you are invested in doing right by the millionaires instead of the players.

But in any event, it means that coaches have to do a better job working with and keeping the guys on their roster happy if they want to have them back. It means they can't bullshit a recruit and tell him about all the playing time he's going to get when he goes there when the coach knows that's BS and he's going to get backup minutes his first couple years at best.

I mean seriously you aren't this stupid, so for you to even suggest that this might not make coaches jobs harder defies belief. You know damn well it makes their job harder. Why the need to pretend otherwise?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

In what other world is a scenario like this even a thing?

Huh? They were always allowed to transfer. What are you talking about?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

In what other world is a scenario like this even a thing?

The funny thing is that he thinks that high school kids should be able to transfer to a new school and be eligible to play basically immediately. But he thinks that college kids should all have to sit out a year.

Because he doesn't derive any real entertainment value from high school kids, but he does from the college kids. And he wants those puppets to keep on dancing.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

2. Please stop comparing basketball and football to Olympic sports. Nobody cares about Olympic sports. The majority of those kids are true students who just happen to play a sport. They make their decisions based a lot on academics, campus life, etc.

That's the answer that you give that shows that you understand NOTHING AT ALL about big time college athletes in any sport. Go tell your average D1 college wrestler that nobody care about him and his sport and that winning isn't as important to him as it is to your average college basketball player and get back to us with his response.

 

[303vND]

I hate this narrative. They always had freedom and choice. Nobody ever said they were forbidden to transfer. Just sit a year and focus on academics while living for free. That's a heck of a good deal for a 20 year old kid.

Yeah that would be a good deal if these universities were really into educating these “student athletes”. But we all know it’s about eligibility not education.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The funny thing is that he thinks that high school kids should be able to transfer to a new school and be eligible to play basically immediately. But he thinks that college kids should all have to sit out a year.

Because he doesn't derive any real entertainment value from high school kids, but he does from the college kids. And he wants those puppets to keep on dancing.

A couple things:

- I do believe HS players should be able to transfer and play immediately if the family legitimately moves into that school district, even if for athletic reasons. We are talking about a family physically moving. That is an enormous sacrifice.

- I believe that schools without geographic boundaries should not compete for championships vs teams with geographic boundaries. So if private schools want to recruit and have new rosters every year, so be it

- HS sports don't have fans and don't make money. Its not "for-profit." Its not a billion dollar business. NCAA Basketball has to answers to its customers, the ones who pay the bills. The PIAA is so broke, they cant even afford to play their football championships at a legit stadium......because they have no fans.

Huge difference.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

That's the answer that you give that shows that you understand NOTHING AT ALL about big time college athletes in any sport. Go tell your average D1 college wrestler that nobody care about him and his sport and that winning isn't as important to him as it is to your average college basketball player and get back to us with his response.

Numbers are numbers. Nobody cares about college wrestling. A wrestler disagreeing with that is pointless. It makes money at maybe 10 places. Basketball and wrestling or volleyball are completely different cultures. Basketball players are future pros (they believe) who are in college as a means to an end. The vast majority at the P6 level, anyway. Its the path to the pros. For the majority of Olympic sports athletes, they are legitimate college students preparing for a real career and living more of a traditional college life than the Top 100 basketball recruit. Yea, some hope to go pro and do but its just not the same. How do you not know this?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Numbers are numbers. Nobody cares about college wrestling. A wrestler disagreeing with that is pointless. It makes money at maybe 10 places. Basketball and wrestling or volleyball are completely different cultures. Basketball players are future pros (they believe) who are in college as a means to an end. The vast majority at the P6 level, anyway. Its the path to the pros. For the majority of Olympic sports athletes, they are legitimate college students preparing for a real career and living more of a traditional college life than the Top 100 basketball recruit. Yea, some hope to go pro and do but its just not the same. How do you not know this?

What I know is that you keep saying the same thing, over and over and over and over again, just with a slightly different twist on it.

You think that it is OK to screw over certain college athletes because they provide YOU with entertainment. You don't care one bit about those kids, other than what they can do for you. And somehow in your me-centric view of the world that makes you right.

The fact that you think that young people, be they high school or college age, should be treated differently based on whether or not you derive pleasure from the fruits of their labor says a lot about you. And absolutely none of what it says is good.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

This is a silly conversation, if the entire Kansas bb team decided to transfer to Pitt and play for JC tomorrow everyone would be ecstatic .

I want everyone who makes the effort to further their education to be successful whether at Pitt , PSU or wherever , that includes athletes and non athletes , but to say limiting movements of athletes is an issue because of academics is BS .

No cares one bit about the academic achievement of the Fb or Bb team , you want them to win .and sure it would be ok if some them were actual students intent on getting an education , but not essential. Like Al Davis said just “win baby win . “

KS teams had one of the highest academic averages ever at Pitt for the Bb program, if not the highest …….enough said !

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

What I know is that you keep saying the same thing, over and over and over and over again, just with a slightly different twist on it.

You think that it is OK to screw over certain college athletes because they provide YOU with entertainment. You don't care one bit about those kids, other than what they can do for you. And somehow in your me-centric view of the world that makes you right.

The fact that you think that young people, be they high school or college age, should be treated differently based on whether or not you derive pleasure from the fruits of their labor says a lot about you. And absolutely none of what it says is good.

How is telling a kid they can go to school, live, eat, and travel with the team for free all while sitting out 30 basketball games, which they will get back at the end, screwing them? These kids get an extra year of free school

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

How is telling a kid they can go to school, live, eat, and travel with the team for free all while sitting out 30 basketball games, which they will get back at the end, screwing them? These kids get an extra year of free school

Because you are putting restrictions on what they can and cannot do based merely on your desire to be entertained. Why is what you want more important than what they want, when they are the ones doing the work?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Because you are putting restrictions on what they can and cannot do based merely on your desire to be entertained. Why is what you want more important than what they want, when they are the ones doing the work?

Because customers pay the bills of their teams. Customers dont want organized AAU. Telling a kid they are free to transfer but just have to sit out 30 games that they ultimately get back seems like a great compromise. Sitting out 1 year of games that you eventually get back is really not that big of a deal.

 

[Ski11585]

Because customers pay the bills of their teams. Customers dont want organized AAU. Telling a kid they are free to transfer but just have to sit out 30 games that they ultimately get back seems like a great compromise. Sitting out 1 year of games that you eventually get back is really not that big of a deal.

Then these guys are employees and should be earning a salary on top of what they’re able to acquire via NIL. Right?

 

[TUOwlsFan2004]

Then these guys are employees and should be earning a salary on top of what they’re able to acquire via NIL. Right?

Thank you. Either they're just students (and have all the rights granted to students) or they're employees (and have all the rights granted to employees). People can't have it both ways.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Because customers pay the bills of their teams. Customers dont want organized AAU. Telling a kid they are free to transfer but just have to sit out 30 games that they ultimately get back seems like a great compromise. Sitting out 1 year of games that you eventually get back is really not that big of a deal.

The market will speak. For anyone who doesn’t like it, stop being a customer.

You can whine all you want. It’s not going back. If anything it’s gonna shift even more toward the players.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Then these guys are employees and should be earning a salary on top of what they’re able to acquire via NIL. Right?

Yes, they should be employees and should earn salaries from the school instead of boosters.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Because customers pay the bills of their teams. Customers dont want organized AAU. Telling a kid they are free to transfer but just have to sit out 30 games that they ultimately get back seems like a great compromise. Sitting out 1 year of games that you eventually get back is really not that big of a deal.

Customers pay the bills for all sports teams. And most of the customers don't like the fact that their best players can become free agents and leave their teams for nothing when they are out of contract. So therefore there should no longer be free agency in sports, right, because most fans don't really like it. And most fans don't like it when players sign big multi-million dollar contracts either, so we need to stop that from happening too.

I mean who cares about those people, and hey, really, why are we even bothering to call them people, who cares about what the property wants, right? When they go to college they become nothing more than marionettes to dance on the strings for our entertainment, right? Who gives a damn if we do what's right by the puppets, as long as they keep dancing for our entertainment.

 

[USN_Panther]

Thank you. Either they're just students (and have all the rights granted to students) or they're employees (and have all the rights granted to employees). People can't have it both ways.

Nor can the players. If they are employees, they can be fired for having a bad game. And run out of sick leave for an injury.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Nor can the players. If they are employees, they can be fired for having a bad game. And run out of sick leave for an injury.

Not necessarily. Because when the players become employees (and the schools will fight that tooth and nail until there isn't any way left for them to fight) there is a really good chance that they will end up as part of a union. And the union could easily negotiate a deal that says that players can't lose scholarships for injuries and that players can't be run off for having a bad game.

And even if there isn't a union individual players could easily have stuff like that written into their contracts.

 

[USN_Panther]

Not necessarily. Because when the players become employees (and the schools will fight that tooth and nail until there isn't any way left for them to fight) there is a really good chance that they will end up as part of a union. And the union could easily negotiate a deal that says that players can't lose scholarships for injuries and that players can't be run off for having a bad game.

And even if there isn't a union individual players could easily have stuff like that written into their contracts.

And schools add buy out clauses to leave.
And if the scholarship is part of employee compensation, it is then taxable.
And those contracts will include minimum academic performance standards, and the poorly performing player will all of a sudden be failing their classes.
I think that the employment model is a step too far and many schools will drop sports if this happens.

 

[USN_Panther]

And schools add buy out clauses to leave.
And if the scholarship is part of employee compensation, it is then taxable.
And those contracts will include minimum academic performance standards, and the poorly performing player will all of a sudden be failing their classes.
I think that the employment model is a step too far and many schools will drop sports if this happens.

But not the Penn States and Alabamas. Teams like that will keep sports and drop school.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I think that the employment model is a step too far and many schools will drop sports if this happens.

As I said, the schools will fight that tooth and nail for as long as the possibly can.

 

[USN_Panther]

As I said, the schools will fight that tooth and nail for as long as the possibly can.

And what would stop a team from bringing a player in from the G league or overseas pro leagues after they left college? They would already be a pro while in college. Could a player stay in college for 8 years to keep playing for pay? The eligibility rules of 5 to play 4 may not hold up when looking at an employment model.
I agree that schools don't want this and it probably really ends title IX and harms women's sports.
It would be really messy.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

And what would stop a team from bringing a player in from the G league or overseas pro leagues after they left college? They would already be a pro while in college. Could a player stay in college for 8 years to keep playing for pay? The eligibility rules of 5 to play 4 may not hold up when looking at an employment model.
I agree that schools don't want this and it probably really ends title IX and harms women's sports.
It would be really messy.

I think where this will eventually end up 20 years from now is that the football and basketball programs will be separate entities from the school and they will become like Under 24 leagues. The National College Professional Basketball League. Contracts, unions, 6-7 years eligibility until age 24, etc.