Defensive identity clear, offensive identity not so much...

[thebadby2]

We are an aggressive, downhill, attacking defense in the Narduzzi/MSU tradition. Very obvious.

Offensively, I couldn't tell you what we're supposed to be. We're not a power running offense, we're not a vertical offense, we're not a spread offense, not a true pro style offense, not an I-formation offense. We show elements of all of those things at various times. I'm not sure what the idea is there, but I'm concerned about it. Perhaps it's a reflection of Chaney having some freedom to do what he wants, and he has coached all of the above at various past jobs. But I think we have to develop some sort of identity on offense and work toward establishing some consistency with it. That will help the players, especially the O linemen with their execution. I'm also concerned about the play calling, which has been head scratching at times. I haven't seen this offense in any kind of rhythm yet, but when you're I-formation 2 tights and a H back one play, and shotgun I with 3 wide the next, I'm not sure how you could find any. We need to decide what we are and who we are offensively and go with it. I think Narduzzi needs to make it clear to Chaney what he wants to see and Chaney needs to get it established.

Otherwise, we will continue to struggle offensively, and while a strong defense is important, you have to be able to move the ball and score particularly in the second half.

 

[Delpanther]

With the young OL, I think we should go back to the I when we run the ball. The extra blocker makes a big difference. We also need to start throwing to the backs in the flat and throwing to the backs underneath coverage. We've done very little offensively that would serve to loosen up the other team's LBs which would make running the ball inside easier. We don't spread the field and allow the other team to crowd the line of scrimmage. Leads to long third down situations and blitzing by the opponent.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

And this is fine. Right? I mean we lost our All American RB in Game 1. We lost our potential All American or All ACC OT in the summer. We switched QB's, so there is a lot of upheaval. I think it will come.

But man, how the defense responds, and who doesn't love an attacking defense? The best friend for a Defensive Backfield you are unsure about.....is BLITZ, ATTACK! Even Wanny never understood this.

The other thing.,....it is fun and looks fun. Recruits will follow.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Look, at this point, Nards and company are simply working miracles with the defense.

So, all we know at this point is that Chaney is not a miracle worker.

Again, he lost an AA caliber running back and just had a game where he, for all intents and purposes had one back. He has a QB who just stepped foot on campus three months ago who has never seen any meaningful game play. He lost the left side of his OL to gradution, and his plugged in starter at OT in Jones and had his LT dinged up going into the season. And, is installing a new system/scheme.

I think his "identity" is trying to achieve ... gasp .. balance.

But, his OL has not had a chance to come together, he has a redshirt frosh tailback who is growing on the job and the aforementioned QB, no established WRs past Boyd.

Has played two of four games in monsoon type weather ...

So, yeah, its a work in progress.

I think it is pretty clear what he is looking to do, but he is hamstrung by a QB that is early in his development, an OL that not established and no set offensive skill guys past Boyd, and the TEs, who he could use more, admittedly.

He wants to run with power and pass downfield, with a split between traditional pro sets and read option sets with pro set skill players (including TEs).

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Normally the Defenses are ahead of Offenses early in the season, but Pitt is breaking in a New OC, New QB, some Freshmen OLs, RBs, and looking for New WRs. This gives them the time for the Offense to adjust too!

The Defense and Special Teams are breaking in new Players as well, and doing better faster from what I can see! No one, and I mean no one expected the Defense to be playing better from lat year. I expect a breakdown or two too, but right now the Pitt Players are improving from game to game as the Coaches learn more too about them?.

 

[SteelCityChamps]

Look, at this point, Nards and company are simply working miracles with the defense.

So, all we know at this point is that Chaney is not a miracle worker.

Again, he lost an AA caliber running back and just had a game where he, for all intents and purposes had one back. He has a QB who just stepped foot on campus three months ago who has never seen any meaningful game play. He lost the left side of his OL to gradution, and his plugged in starter at OT in Jones and had his LT dinged up going into the season. And, is installing a new system/scheme.

I think his "identity" is trying to achieve ... gasp .. balance.

But, his OL has not had a chance to come together, he has a redshirt frosh tailback who is growing on the job and the aforementioned QB, no established WRs past Boyd.

Has played two of four games in monsoon type weather ...

So, yeah, its a work in progress.

I think it is pretty clear what he is looking to do, but he is hamstrung by a QB that is early in his development, an OL that not established and no set offensive skill guys past Boyd, and the TEs, who he could use more, admittedly.

He wants to run with power and pass downfield, with a split between traditional pro sets and read option sets with pro set skill players (including TEs).

Wasn't it Chaney's decision to play the new QB and bench the "veteran" who played all last year?
It's clear QB development under Chaney is an issue.
Every team has turnover on the OL every year.
Whose fault is it for not developing the secondary WRs? Maybe partly coaching.

Your last paragraph suggests Chaney wants to do everything. If you do that can you be great or specialize in anything one thing?
I worry that the offense if too complex.

Narduzzi's identity on defense is simplicity. Know your job and go out and execute.
The identity on offense is complexity. Mass volume of plays.
I'm curious to see how the Narduzzi/Chaney marriage works. Seems to be to polar opposite identities on each side of the ball.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Wasn't it Chaney's decision to play the new QB and bench the "veteran" who played all last year? No, it was forced because Chad not only did not progress, he regressed.
It's clear QB development under Chaney is an issue. No, dude has coached some fine qbs in his day ,including Drew Brees. Its been FOUR games.
Every team has turnover on the OL every year. No, not all teams turnover the ol every year. Most teams do, and like this team they struggle to come together based on the level of transition, which in this case was pretty significant.
Whose fault is it for not developing the secondary WRs? Maybe partly coaching. Sure, and the past staff did no better last year, indicating there is not a lot to work with.

Your last paragraph suggests Chaney wants to do everything. NO, IT DOES NOT. THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO READ INTO IT. If you do that can you be great or specialize in anything one thing? THERE IS MORE THAN ONE WAY TO SKIN A CAT. THERE ARE GOOD OFFENSES THAT RUN THE BALL, PRIMARILY, THAT PASS THA BALL PRIMARILY, THAT DO BOTH, THAT ARE SIMPLE LIKE CHRYSTS AND THATARE "COMPLEX."
I worry that the offense if too complex. COULD BE, way too soon to tell.

Narduzzi's identity on defense is simplicity. Know your job and go out and execute.
The identity on offense is complexity. Mass volume of plays. MOST offenses are more complex than most defenses.
I'm curious to see how the Narduzzi/Chaney marriage works. Seems to be to polar opposite identities on each side of the ball.

I see Chaney doing mostly what they did at MSU. THE TURNOVER AND OTHER ISSUES ARE REAL, THAT YOU DISMISS THEM OUT OF HAND INDICATES A BIAS OR LACK OF OBJECTIVITY.

NOTE, using caps because I am on a tablet and having a hard time using color or bold on my replies.

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

the weather has sucked for two of the past three games. hard to really establish an identity in monsoons.

 

[SteelCityChamps]

I see Chaney doing mostly what they did at MSU. THE TURNOVER AND OTHER ISSUES ARE REAL, THAT YOU DISMISS THEM OUT OF HAND INDICATES A BIAS OR LACK OF OBJECTIVITY.

NOTE, using caps because I am on a tablet and having a hard time using color or bold on my replies.

Are you capable of having a conversation on here?
It's taking me forever to go back and find what you said. All those functions work fine on my tablet.

You're right not every team loses an OL starter every year. So that's the excuse then, we lost 2 starters plus JJS? Well we got Rowell back and Bookser was supposed to play well, but the staff went with O'Neil.

If Chad regressed that's on Chaney. And did he even play enough for you to make that evaluation? You say to me it's only been 4 games, well Chad threw what 20 passes. About 10 in games with Boyd active.

Chaney was not the QB coach for Brees. Only started coaching QBs in 2012. Odd move for a career fat guy coach.

I would disagree that most offenses are more complex than most defenses. And yes, your last paragraph does suggest Chaney wants to do everything. Run power, downfield passes, pro sets and read option sets were your words. But you forgot triple option wishbone so I guess I was wrong.

What other issues am I dismissing? Injuries? Notre Dame has lost pretty much their entire 1st string offense including QB and keeps on rolling.

 

[Pittx9]

Call me crazy but I think Walt Harris would fit in very well with this teams as offensive coordinator. Probably never happen, but in a year, two, three, five, whatever, when Chaney is gone, I would take a serious look at him. Just look at the difference in how Palko played under him as opposed to Wannstedt.

 

[PITTLAW]

Call me crazy but I think Walt Harris would fit in very well with this teams as offensive coordinator. Probably never happen, but in a year, two, three, five, whatever, when Chaney is gone, I would take a serious look at him. Just look at the difference in how Palko played under him as opposed to Wannstedt.

LOL...and you probably thought "Back to the Future" was a great slogan when they brought Johnny back. Walt's retired and washed up...there will be far greater candidates that have life, vigor and a future that would love the Pitt OC job should Chaney need to be replaced in "two, three, five or whatever" years. Hail to Pitt!

 

[deepelemblues]

walt's very happily retired, no way he's getting back in the game and we should just enjoy his decision to stick around pittsburgh and support the program as much as he does.

 

[daminals76]

I'm tired of hearing a million excuses about how it's ok that the offense sucks!

It's not ok! Chaney has royally screwed up what was a very high powered offense last year.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Are you capable of having a conversation on here?
It's taking me forever to go back and find what you said. All those functions work fine on my tablet.

You're right not every team loses an OL starter every year. So that's the excuse then, we lost 2 starters plus JJS? Well we got Rowell back and Bookser was supposed to play well, but the staff went with O'Neil.

If Chad regressed that's on Chaney. And did he even play enough for you to make that evaluation? You say to me it's only been 4 games, well Chad threw what 20 passes. About 10 in games with Boyd active.

Chaney was not the QB coach for Brees. Only started coaching QBs in 2012. Odd move for a career fat guy coach.

I would disagree that most offenses are more complex than most defenses. And yes, your last paragraph does suggest Chaney wants to do everything. Run power, downfield passes, pro sets and read option sets were your words. But you forgot triple option wishbone so I guess I was wrong.

What other issues am I dismissing? Injuries? Notre Dame has lost pretty much their entire 1st string offense including QB and keeps on rolling.

"Career fat guys coach" pretty much confirms the lack of objectivity.

 

[Jeffburgh]

I'm tired of hearing a million excuses about how it's ok that the offense sucks!

It's not ok! Chaney has royally screwed up what was a very high powered offense last year.

Its not ok, and he didnt screw it up ...

 

[ThePanthers]

Its not ok, and he didnt screw it up ...

Yeah, I don't think he screwed anything up. They do need to fix somethings, but the original plan went out the door with Conner gone.

 

[Pittx9]

Conner going down is why the offense is struggling. Some bad play calling by Chaney has not helped though. If Peterman continues to improve, as well as Ollison, by year's end we may have a potent offense again. If that's the case, add that with our stellar defense, and we might just have a really good football team. As Narduzzi said after the game though, there's still work to be done.

 

[SteelCityChamps]

"Career fat guys coach" pretty much confirms the lack of objectivity.

From 1995-2009 he only coached OL and TE. The RBs for 2 years, then the move to QB.
15 years as a fat guy coach.
He has very little experience as a QB coach. It's on Chaney that Chad has regressed.

Its not ok, and he didnt screw it up ...

Lets see, the new variables from last year are: 1. New coach 2. Conner injury.
Also the return of Biz, DoJo, Rowell and Officer on the line. Boyd, Holtz and Orndoff as well.
Ollison has been serviceable so that leaves the coach.

Chaney hasn't done much right on offense.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

LOL...and you probably thought "Back to the Future" was a great slogan when they brought Johnny back. Walt's retired and washed up...there will be far greater candidates that have life, vigor and a future that would love the Pitt OC job should Chaney need to be replaced in "two, three, five or whatever" years. Hail to Pitt!

Agreed

 

[Scruffy the Panther]

Yeah, I don't think he screwed anything up. They do need to fix somethings, but the original plan went out the door with Conner gone.

So what's he gonna do next year with both Conner and Boyd likely gone?

 

[Jeffburgh]

From 1995-2009 he only coached OL and TE. The RBs for 2 years, then the move to QB.
15 years as a fat guy coach.
He has very little experience as a QB coach. It's on Chaney that Chad has regressed.

Lets see, the new variables from last year are: 1. New coach 2. Conner injury.
Also the return of Biz, DoJo, Rowell and Officer on the line. Boyd, Holtz and Orndoff as well.
Ollison has been serviceable so that leaves the coach.

Chaney hasn't done much right on offense.

As with most of what you have posted in this string, you are flat wrong about chaneys resume.

From 97 to 2005 he was purdues offensive coordinator.

 

[SteelCityChamps]

As with most of what you have posted in this string, you are flat wrong about chaneys resume.

From 97 to 2005 he was purdues offensive coordinator.

I never said he wasn't.
However he didn't coach the QBs those years.
I'm not wrong about anything. You may have a different opinion. That's fine. It's a discussion board, but lets not dispute Chaney's lack of experience coaching QBs.

 

[PittGuy00]

And this is fine. Right? I mean we lost our All American RB in Game 1. We lost our potential All American or All ACC OT in the summer. We switched QB's, so there is a lot of upheaval. I think it will come.

But man, how the defense responds, and who doesn't love an attacking defense? The best friend for a Defensive Backfield you are unsure about.....is BLITZ, ATTACK! Even Wanny never understood this.

The other thing.,....it is fun and looks fun. Recruits will follow.

"Nothing good comes from blitzing" -Dave Wannstedt

 

[Jeffburgh]

I never said he wasn't.
However he didn't coach the QBs those years.
I'm not wrong about anything. You may have a different opinion. That's fine. It's a discussion board, but lets not dispute Chaney's lack of experience coaching QBs.

Yes, you did.

"From 1995-2009 he only coached OL and TE."

Reality (his actual title as OC and QB coach for Tennessee from 09 to 12, as well as his extensive experience generally as an OC, and HCPN himself, disputes your assertion in regard to his "lack of experience coaching QBs."

"Jim Chaney brings outstanding experience and knowledge to our staff," Narduzzi said. "He has the expertise to run different offenses and tailor game plans to his personnel's strengths. Moreover, Jim is a brilliant quarterback coach who has tutored some exceptional college and pro players, including a Super Bowl MVP in Drew Brees."

 

[SteelCityChamps]

Yes, you did.

"From 1995-2009 he only coached OL and TE."

Reality (his actual title as OC and QB coach for Tennessee from 09 to 12, as well as his extensive experience generally as an OC, and HCPN himself, disputes your assertion in regard to his "lack of experience coaching QBs."

"Jim Chaney brings outstanding experience and knowledge to our staff," Narduzzi said. "He has the expertise to run different offenses and tailor game plans to his personnel's strengths. Moreover, Jim is a brilliant quarterback coach who has tutored some exceptional college and pro players, including a Super Bowl MVP in Drew Brees."

Only as in the only position group.
Darrin Hinshaw coached the QBs from 2009-2011. Chaney didn't take over until 2012.
Blaine Bennett Purdue QB coach 2001-2005.

Of course Narduzzi is going to point out Drew Brees. Chaney wasn't his position coach though and I still worry about his lack of a track record working with QBs.

 

[SteelCityChamps]

"Jim Chaney brings outstanding experience and knowledge to our staff," Narduzzi said. "He has the expertise to run different offenses and tailor game plans to his personnel's strengths. Moreover, Jim is a brilliant quarterback coach who has tutored some exceptional college and pro players, including a Super Bowl MVP in Drew Brees."

Another note. I'm glad you brought up that quote. I'll try to get back to the original topic of this thread so we can stop researching Chaney's history.

Yes, Chaney has run different offense at each stop he has been at, but can he pick one offense, "his offense," and make that the identity of the team.

That's the original topic of the thread and where I worry. Does he want to be a between the tackles running team? Well he sure calls a lot of pitch plays then.
Does he want to be a vertical passing team? Didn't see any shots against VT.

I know we're only 4 games in, but I have no idea what Jim Chaney wants this offense to look like.
"Tailor his game plans to his personnel's strengths." Then why is Peterman running the football? He's not a runner. Are we really calling the best run plays that our o-line can execute. I know Chris has brought up that issue on the radio show.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Another note. I'm glad you brought up that quote. I'll try to get back to the original topic of this thread so we can stop researching Chaney's history.

Yes, Chaney has run different offense at each stop he has been at, but can he pick one offense, "his offense," and make that the identity of the team.

That's the original topic of the thread and where I worry. Does he want to be a between the tackles running team? Well he sure calls a lot of pitch plays then.
Does he want to be a vertical passing team? Didn't see any shots against VT.

I know we're only 4 games in, but I have no idea what Jim Chaney wants this offense to look like.
"Tailor his game plans to his personnel's strengths." Then why is Peterman running the football? He's not a runner. Are we really calling the best run plays that our o-line can execute. I know Chris has brought up that issue on the radio show.

The discussion has veered a lot of different ways from my original response to the OP that you replied to.

You are drawing a lot of hard conclusions and basing loose associations on false information/assumptions/being flat wrong and a very short body of evidence of four games, and completely discount the very real turnover and injury issues that have played a role in the offense not humming like a well oiled machine after four games.

Chaney has a strong resume for an offensive coordinator, and along with that a solid background of working with QBs.

My original post in the thread stands. There may or may not be a problem here, but these four games, given losing Conner, Voytik not progressing and in fact regressing, losing the right side of his OL and having then normal adjustment period for an OL to come together further heightened by losing a groomed starter at OT in Jones, are simply not enough information to draw a conclusion either way.

My last go around on this.

 

[drunkinoakland]

I'm tired of hearing a million excuses about how it's ok that the offense sucks!

It's not ok! Chaney has royally screwed up what was a very high powered offense last year.

It really wasn't a high powered offense last year until at least mid season.