Defensive Upgrade in 2017

[PhPanther1]

Below is how I see the defensive looking next year. I think there's a major TALENT increase across the board, except with Price. The LB position is still thin and not getting Adams to be the backup and future MLB really hurts imo. This team will have a rough time out the gate, but by mid next year, you'll start to see what a Pitt/Narduzzi defense should look like.

Price -> Hendrix/Weaver
Jarrett -> Watts/Wheeler
Soto -> Taleni/Camp
Blair -> Edwards/Blair

Bradley/Cap -> Pugh/Pine
Galambos -> Wirginis
Idowu -> Brightwell/Zeise

Lewis -> Hamlin/Miller
Maddox -> Maddox/Coleman
Webb/Mitchell -> Garner/Ford
Whitehead -> Whitehead/Campbell

 

[Piranha]

Look at our starting lineup on defense.
Edwards, Jarrett, Idowu, Galambos, Caprara, Maddox, Lewis, Soto, Webb - None of these guys had major offers or were rated highly.

 

[PhPanther1]

Dave Andrews needs to be all over Watts imo. That kid has extremely high potential and needs to muscle up, weight down and keep his motor running all game long. I expect him to make the biggest jump next year as he did not go through a year long program yet.

 

[Las Panteras]

I agree that the talent can only get better.

Can someone confirm Watts/ Camp....did either or both lose their redshirt?

Also.....whats up with Hamlin? Hurt?, Just not ready?

Thanks

 

[9nationalchampionships]

I would like to see Pugh move to MLB and agree we are still thin at LB.

The positive is that we can't be any worse in defense so an uptick is likely. The negative is our offense may take a step back with the loss of 3 starters on OL inc. Orondorff.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

I agree that the talent can only get better.

Can someone confirm Watts/ Camp....did either or both lose their redshirt?

Also.....whats up with Hamlin? Hurt?, Just not ready?

Thanks

From what I could gather Hamlin was never quite right from the injury he had - which I think was a sports hernia. And it sounds like since he played so late a RS can't be done. Some speculated that he could get a hardship, others said no way.

Watts played yesterday I think. 34 was on the field and that's his #. He got hurt earlier this year too in a game but guess he healed up.

Not sure about Camp.

 

[oldpanther]

From what I could gather Hamlin was never quite right from the injury he had - which I think was a sports hernia. And it sounds like since he played so late a RS can't be done. Some speculated that he could get a hardship, others said no way.

Watts played yesterday I think. 34 was on the field and that's his #. He got hurt earlier this year too in a game but guess he healed up.

Not sure about Camp.

I don't believe he played this year.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

I don't believe he played this year.

That's my belief as well but wasn't sure.

 

[PhPanther1]

I don't remember Camp playing at all, so his RS is safe.
Narduzzi said he rushed Watts in and wasted his RS year and didn't use him enough early on. Hindsite is always 20/20, but I bet if he could take it back, Watts would not have been on the field this year.

I hope Pugh gets moved to the middle also, but not sure how much speed he'll lose as he bulks up. MLB has to play sideline to sideline all game long.

 

[BScott78]

Nobody has any clue if these players will be upgrades. Yes, I know it can't get worse, but there are no sure fire studs outside of Whitehead and Ford. Hamlin needs to get stronger and already has injury problems. Hendrix has never played meaningful snaps and also injured. Pugh is being moved to DL. This defense is still 2 to 3 years away from potentially be "really good" and the key word is "potentially." Some of the guys listed already played this year (brightwell, Watts, Taleni, ) and while they showed some good things, none of them jumped out as a sure fire stud

 

[PhPanther1]

Nobody has any clue if these players will be upgrades. Yes, I know it can't get worse, but there are no sure fire studs outside of Whitehead and Ford. Hamlin needs to get stronger and already has injury problems. Hendrix has never played meaningful snaps and also injured. Pugh is being moved to DL. This defense is still 2 to 3 years away from potentially be "really good" and the key word is "potentially." Some of the guys listed already played this year (brightwell, Watts, Taleni, ) and while they showed some good things, none of them jumped out as a sure fire stud

Who credible have you heard Pugh to the DL? I have yet to hear it from anybody I know.

These guys are going to be lightyears better than the stiffs Chryst recruited. Anybody who can't see that these guys are D1 athletes vs the "hard working" classroom guys Chryst brought in doesn't have a good eye for football.

 

[88Pitt88]

Below is how I see the defensive looking next year. I think there's a major TALENT increase across the board, except with Price. The LB position is still thin and not getting Adams to be the backup and future MLB really hurts imo. This team will have a rough time out the gate, but by mid next year, you'll start to see what a Pitt/Narduzzi defense should look like.

Price -> Hendrix/Weaver
Jarrett -> Watts/Wheeler
Soto -> Taleni/Camp
Blair -> Edwards/Blair

Bradley/Cap -> Pugh/Pine
Galambos -> Wirginis
Idowu -> Brightwell/Zeise

Lewis -> Hamlin/Miller
Maddox -> Maddox/Coleman
Webb/Mitchell -> Garner/Ford
Whitehead -> Whitehead/Campbell

I think that next season you will be pleasantly surprised that a position of weakness becomes a strength. The defensive backfield will be much better next year. Look for the big plays we give up in both the run game and the passing game to slowly disappear. Our safeties from day one will be Whitehead and Ford. They will arguably be the two best safeties Pitt has ever had on the field together. They are big play erasers and will make it tough for offenses to attack our deep middle.

Out on the edge at corner we get 2 of Hamlin, Maddox, Coleman, Miller or Garner. Other than Maddox, who was easily our best this season, and would be amazing if he was 4" taller, we are going to be bigger, stronger, and faster.

I am still not sure what we get at linebacker. Hope to see Brightwell,Pine, Ziese and maybe McKee? I think they are trying to make Pugh the second coming of Ejuan Price, which I don't mind, because we will desperately need a play maker off the edge.

Bottom line, we are going to be younger but more talented with way more upside at nearly every position. The line and linebackers will have to grasp the system quickly and work really hard to get there. Next season we will see what Narduzzi is all about. A significant collection of his talent will be infused, and I am betting we see major improvement. In fact, I would be willing to bet most offenses will be trying to run on us next season, and the aerial blitz we endured this season will be a distant memory.

Since the Duzz's D is predicated on stopping the run, if our line and linebackers can give us even marginally improved play, we should start to get a look at what we envisioned when the Duzz was hired. If we can keep from getting blown off the ball, I am really excited to see Ford and Whitehead together. These guys are serious difference makers and will really have a chance to shine in this scheme. Not one, but two safeties with NFL caliber talent and instincts is going to make a monumental impact on a defense that lacked playmakers this season.
This year opposing QB's avoided Whitehead and challenged Webb. That is a no-brainer. Next season, they will have to pick their poison! After yesterday, it is hard to be positive, but as a Pitt fan, I am stoked to see what those two can do together, you should be too!

 

[PhPanther1]

As much as I LOVE Ford, I think a lot of people are sleeping on Garner at Safety. I know the staff likes him a lot and imo he'll be starting game 1 just from being 1 year into the system. As the year goes on, Ford's ability will make it impossible to stay off the field. I guess we'll see how much Ford can learn and how quick. It's definately a good problem to have.

Pugh to DE is a mistake imo. We have a serious lack of depth and talent at LB. The only way I would move him was if you were going to bulk up Miller or Campbell and make them LB's. There's plenty of bodies in Hendrix, Edwards, Blair, Folston, Weaver, Jones to get by next year.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

I feel good about the direction of the program under Coach N. Eight win seasons and back to back bowl games put us into the national discussion for consideration for the top 25.

With another year of recruits added to the talent mix we should be patient and look for improvement in the defense by the middle of the 2017 season.

If the offense remains productive I would hope for a season with another 8 wins next year. In 2018 the staff should be asked to have us competitive for an ACC championship and a major bowl.

 

[Burgh15]

Pitt needs a lot more speed at linebacker and in the secondary. On paper it looks like they'll get some next year.

 

[4Mark_Marty]

Dave Andrews needs to be all over Watts imo. That kid has extremely high potential and needs to muscle up, weight down and keep his motor running all game long. I expect him to make the biggest jump next year as he did not go through a year long program yet.

Watts has AD like quickness

 

[4Mark_Marty]

As much as I LOVE Ford, I think a lot of people are sleeping on Garner at Safety. I know the staff likes him a lot and imo he'll be starting game 1 just from being 1 year into the system. As the year goes on, Ford's ability will make it impossible to stay off the field. I guess we'll see how much Ford can learn and how quick. It's definately a good problem to have.

Pugh to DE is a mistake imo. We have a serious lack of depth and talent at LB. The only way I would move him was if you were going to bulk up Miller or Campbell and make them LB's. There's plenty of bodies in Hendrix, Edwards, Blair, Folston, Weaver, Jones to get by next year.

I know a coach who coached against Garner and Hamlin. He said Garner is the better of the two.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Who credible have you heard Pugh to the DL? I have yet to hear it from anybody I know.

These guys are going to be lightyears better than the stiffs Chryst recruited. Anybody who can't see that these guys are D1 athletes vs the "hard working" classroom guys Chryst brought in doesn't have a good eye for football.

CP has reported Pugh to DE.

 

[PhPanther1]

I know a coach who coached against Garner and Hamlin. He said Garner is the better of the two.

They play different positions. Garner had a ton of speed and can cover a lot of ground. Hamlin has elite skills at rge CB position....we'll see it if he gets healthy.

CP saying the move is full time or that he took some reps at DE? I think he took some reps to keep himself versitile and it's not a FT move. Guess we'll see in the spring.

 

[Jeffburgh]

They play different positions. Garner had a ton of speed and can cover a lot of ground. Hamlin has elite skills at rge CB position....we'll see it if he gets healthy.

CP saying the move is full time or that he took some reps at DE? I think he took some reps to keep himself versitile and it's not a FT move. Guess we'll see in the spring.

I would LOVE to see him at MLB, but the report is that he's at DE now.

 

[thebadby2]

As much as I LOVE Ford, I think a lot of people are sleeping on Garner at Safety. I know the staff likes him a lot and imo he'll be starting game 1 just from being 1 year into the system. As the year goes on, Ford's ability will make it impossible to stay off the field. I guess we'll see how much Ford can learn and how quick. It's definately a good problem to have.

Pugh to DE is a mistake imo. We have a serious lack of depth and talent at LB. The only way I would move him was if you were going to bulk up Miller or Campbell and make them LB's. There's plenty of bodies in Hendrix, Edwards, Blair, Folston, Weaver, Jones to get by next year.

But it's about more than just having enough bodies, it's about getting your best players on the field in positions where they can have maximum impact. I want to see Pugh atvLB as well but if the clacked move him to DE, there will be a good reason for it.

 

[PittHOFs]

Moving Pugh to DE must also mean there is someone that can play MLB. Basically trying to get as much talent on the field at once is what it looks like to me.

 

[PhPanther1]

You need 6 LB's out of:
Wirginis, Brightwell, Pine, Zeise, Reynolds, McKee, Idowu, Bright, Nunn, Tucker.

You need 4 out of:
Hendrix, A. Edwards, Blair, Folston, Weaver, Jones, D. Edwards, Gilbert, VanLynn, Alexandre, plus 1 more recruit

I'm not sure after looking at that group how you can think the DE position needs Pugh more than LB.

 

[vegasgreed]

Next year LB is going to be a weak spot.

 

[thebadby2]

You need 6 LB's out of:
Wirginis, Brightwell, Pine, Zeise, Reynolds, McKee, Idowu, Bright, Nunn, Tucker.

You need 4 out of:
Hendrix, A. Edwards, Blair, Folston, Weaver, Jones, D. Edwards, Gilbert, VanLynn, Alexandre, plus 1 more recruit

I'm not sure after looking at that group how you can think the DE position needs Pugh more than LB.

Maybe because most of those DEs aren't good enough to be legit starters. Gilbert may never play football again. Several of that group are redshirt or true freshman, Pugh might be a lot better than they are. The coaches know what they have and what they need. We'll see.

 

[PhPanther1]

Next year LB is going to be a weak spot.

Gonna be a lot of boom/bust plays till they get experience. Only experience they have is part time duty from Brightwell and 3rd down blitzing from Wirginis. I think Narduzzi should have used Wirginis more and sat Galambos more often.

 

[PhPanther1]

Maybe because most of those DEs aren't good enough to be legit starters. Gilbert may never play football again. Several of that group are redshirt or true freshman, Pugh might be a lot better than they are. The coaches know what they have and what they need. We'll see.

What makes anybody think Pugh is any better than what Hendrix, A Edwards or Blair have done? He played end and LB at aliquippa. I doubt he had any DE technique playing AA ball and just blasted through people.

Weaver was a Michigan commit at DE for like 8 months and had an offer from PSU.

Jones had offers from VaTech and Cal and was an early enrolee last year.

Pugh playing a couple practices at DE doesn't mean he's made a fulltime move. Where he lines up in the spring will tell us what is going on. If he does move from LB, expect a DB (miller is my guess) to move up to LB.

 

[vegasgreed]

That is a one of the reasons I said that. Some of it is talent and the other part is not nearly enough experience. That goes for the D overall. Many our mentioning all these kids for next year, problem is they haven't been through the fire. That can play against lower level competition but against quality ACC foe, it's a tough task.

The first recruiting class at LB is hurting us. Brightwell and McKee were recruited and we're not close to being ready. Really undersized, waiting 3-4 years is not optimal. Speed is great but it's not the only thing. We need to do a better job of finding kids that are ready to play sooner. Kind of like Richt did at Miami this year, he started multiple true freshman...and they produced. At least 3 of them.

It would be a huge boost if the light goes on for McKee

Another thing to keep in mind. Over the last two years, what players have the defensive coaches made better? It's just not the players but also the coaching.

The whole Pugh thing people are glossing over, you have to add another year of development.

 

[thebadby2]

What makes anybody think Pugh is any better than what Hendrix, A Edwards or Blair have done? He played end and LB at aliquippa. I doubt he had any DE technique playing AA ball and just blasted through people.

Weaver was a Michigan commit at DE for like 8 months and had an offer from PSU.

Jones had offers from VaTech and Cal and was an early enrolee last year.

Pugh playing a couple practices at DE doesn't mean he's made a fulltime move. Where he lines up in the spring will tell us what is going on. If he does move from LB, expect a DB (miller is my guess) to move up to LB.

The fact that the coaches have made the decision to move a prized defensive recruit from a known position of need to DE should give you some idea as to how comfortable the coaches are with the rest of the players at the position.

 

[raleighpanther]

Nobody has any clue if these players will be upgrades. Yes, I know it can't get worse, but there are no sure fire studs outside of Whitehead and Ford. Hamlin needs to get stronger and already has injury problems. Hendrix has never played meaningful snaps and also injured. Pugh is being moved to DL. This defense is still 2 to 3 years away from potentially be "really good" and the key word is "potentially." Some of the guys listed already played this year (brightwell, Watts, Taleni, ) and while they showed some good things, none of them jumped out as a sure fire stud

Guys who end up being great in their college careers seldom stand out as sure fire studs in their first year. No one could've predicted that Aaron Donald would become the best defensive player in the country his senior year after watching him play his first season. Yes, he showed some good things too, but that was about it.
Narduzzi has said he really wants to redshirt the entire freshman class because seldom are freshman really ready to play. Whitehead was an exception. Typically, other than RB, you don't see more than a handful of players in the country that are standouts in their freshman year.

 

[88Pitt88]

Next year LB is going to be a weak spot.

There is no way that linebacker can possibly be weaker next season, especially outside backer. Sure there will be a learning curve and growing pains, but after the 5th or 6th game these kids will be better than what you witnessed this year. It will be addition by subtraction, out with the old, in with the new and improved. Plus, as they play those first 6 games or so, they will blow assignments, but, Pitt will have the best to safeties they have ever had to erase those mistakes.

 

[vegasgreed]

We'll talk next year. Let me ask you a question. As a core what will the LB be better than? Better than safety's? Better than OL? Better than WR? Better than CB's? Better than RB's?

My point is the LB core will be near the bottom. We've recruited a few guys with talent but the LB recruiting could be better. Just to be clear, nowhere in my last post did I say it will be worse than last years LB. It may or may not be. To early to tell with a lot of our starters next year have little to no experience. I just said the LB core overall is going to be a weak spot on the team compared to the grand scheme of our team.

On many good ACC teams, Wirginis would be the weak link. Next year on our team, he will be counted on as one of the best LBers.

There is no way that linebacker can possibly be weaker next season, especially outside backer. Sure there will be a learning curve and growing pains, but after the 5th or 6th game these kids will be better than what you witnessed this year. It will be addition by subtraction, out with the old, in with the new and improved. Plus, as they play those first 6 games or so, they will blow assignments, but, Pitt will have the best to safeties they have ever had to erase those mistakes.

 

[88Pitt88]

We'll talk next year. Let me ask you a question. As a core what will the LB be better than? Better than safety's? Better than OL? Better than WR? Better than CB's? Better than RB's?

My point is the LB core will be near the bottom. We've recruited a few guys with talent but the LB recruiting could be better. Just to be clear, nowhere in my last post did I say it will be worse than last years LB. It may or may not be. To early to tell with a lot of our starters next year have little to no experience. I just said the LB core overall is going to be a weak spot on the team compared to the grand scheme of our team.

On many good ACC teams, Wirginis would be the weak link. Next year on our team, he will be counted on as one of the best LBers.

Everything you said is fair. I misinterpreted your post which is my fault. It surely will be one of the weaker positions that we have. We can survive and be decent with guys like Galambos and Wirginis in the middle. What we can't have is the poor outside linebacker play coupled with some bad defensive end play. We looked so poor against the run in that bowl game, it was just sinful for a P5 team to play like that.

We will be better because we are going to be replacing MAC level or lower guys with P5 level athletes that had real offers from real schools. Will they excel immediately, probably not. However, after playing for half a season and spring ball, assuming they are physically ready, we should be able to see marked improvement.

Athletes matter! If we had Whitehead at SS in the bowl game, that Northwestern back would have had considerably less yardage even with the poor outside backer play. He stops and holds plays to 10 to 20 yards that without him go for 50 to a TD. Adding Ford will be like having two Whiteheads back there next season. If we can put significantly better athletes at linebacker in front of these two, our defense has to get leaps and bounds better.

I can't wait to talk to you and others next year about this defense. Things are going to be quite different and it will provide for some interesting discussions!

 

[Swervin27]

Next year LB is going to be a weak spot.

This year it was a weakness too

 

[PhPanther1]

If Pugh did move to DE, sadly, I think the LB's will be terrible again.

Expext 0 pt for Nunn and Tucket next year as both are transitioning from different positions. I think Reynolds is too slow and is about the same as a Cap or Galambos, but in a backup role. Idowu is a joke. Is McKee ever going to add weight or "get it"?

That leaves you Wirginis, Brightwell, Pine, Zeise and Bright. Bright will be a true freshman....so how much can he really add? I can't wait for spring to see who is moving to LB to help this crew.

 

[Swervin27]

If Pugh did move to DE, sadly, I think the LB's will be terrible again.

Expext 0 pt for Nunn and Tucket next year as both are transitioning from different positions. I think Reynolds is too slow and is about the same as a Cap or Galambos, but in a backup role. Idowu is a joke. Is McKee ever going to add weight or "get it"?

That leaves you Wirginis, Brightwell, Pine, Zeise and Bright. Bright will be a true freshman....so how much can he really add? I can't wait for spring to see who is moving to LB to help this crew.

Good post. We are in a position where we really need zeise to be a legit backer at star. Not exactly something that should be expected, more hope than anything.

Maybe someone like Campbell can be a star backer.

 

[vegasgreed]

I know Peak reported Pugh is moving to DL. I will wait on more confirmation on that. Especially considering the current state of our LBers.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Our D was one of the worst in all of P5 land. The chance of it being even slightly better is strong. I can not imagine LBs less athletic than what we played this year. The only splash play from our LBs was Brightwell's int and return.

Defensive recruits should be lining up to play for us....... Early playing time!

 

[PhPanther1]

I know Peak reported Pugh is moving to DL. I will wait on more confirmation on that. Especially considering the current state of our LBers.

Can anybody say when it was reported? Was it more than a....hey big guy, we're thin in bowl week practices for DE, go put your hand in the dirt for a few days and see if you can get to the QB? Or was it a move made back in October?

 

[vegasgreed]

Ph, I first reported it on this site after hearing Peak mention it in one of his free podcast's. Not sure of exact date but it was about 2 weeks ago.