Didn't we all say that firing KS even with a big buy-out was a great move?

[PittSqueak]

I may be remembering this wrong, but I feel like the board 3 weeks ago was near unanimous that Lyke did a great thing that showed Pitt was willing to do whatever it took to get past KS, and showed it wasn't still a cheap school that was going to sit around with fans boiling while contemplating that $10m buy-out. Am I wrong?

I get that some people are upset that Hurley picked another school and we didn't immediately sign a plan B, but I thought the board consensus very recently was "Anyone is better than KS and will move us forward; fire him ASAP, pay the buy-out like a big-boy school would, and get us anyone else" quickly followed by "Lyke being willing to pay that buy-out shows she knows what she's doing."

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Lots of easily panicked cowards in our fanbase

 

[FireballZ]

I may be remembering this wrong, but I feel like the board 3 weeks ago was near unanimous that Lyke did a great thing that showed Pitt was willing to do whatever it took to get past KS, and showed it wasn't still a cheap school that was going to sit around with fans boiling while contemplating that $10m buy-out. Am I wrong?

I get that some people are upset that Hurley picked another school and we didn't immediately sign a plan B, but I thought the board consensus very recently was "Anyone is better than KS and will move us forward; fire him ASAP, pay the buy-out like a big-boy school would, and get us anyone else" quickly followed by "Lyke being willing to pay that buy-out shows she knows what she's doing."

Pitt's fan base hasn't been paying close enough attention to the administration over the last century plus and has too much of a pro mentality, which is why the majority thought that was a good plan to jettison KS in lieu of barring through another year of Stallings, hoping he could stabilize the program. No 'hot' coach was ever going to dive into this steaming mess even if Pitt overpaid. I'll be the first to write a donation check if I'm wrong and they pull a rabbit out of the hat here in the next few weeks.

 

[pittman71]

fans had stopped attending Pitt games and the team was 0-19 there was no way he could have been brought back. Before I thought Pitt would be able to recover but I don't believe it anymore, they will be bad for years to come.

If fan support doesn't improve I still believe the ACC will try to get rid of Pitt. People cite Wake Forest but they are an original ACC member, they will never get booted.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

the majority thought that was a good plan to jettison KS in lieu of barring through another year of Stallings, hoping he could stabilize the program.

And oddly enough, the majority was right.

 

[FireballZ]

And oddly enough, the majority was right.

I don't have a ton of hope that you are correct, but I'll do a somersault if Pitt hires a good coach and he's able to retain a handful of the exiting players.

You simply cannot say with any level of certainty as of right now that they made the correct decision. If all the core players leave and you get an unexciting retread hire, then you're worse off, for sure. No additional fans and tickets sold, no returning players that you wasted a year building experience with, plus another Stallings'-level coach.

 

[PHATWOOD]

fans had stopped attending Pitt games and the team was 0-19 there was no way he could have been brought back. Before I thought Pitt would be able to recover but I don't believe it anymore, they will be bad for years to come.

If fan support doesn't improve I still believe the ACC will try to get rid of Pitt. People cite Wake Forest but they are an original ACC member, they will never get booted.

You need to stop with this silly narrative about Pitt being removed from the conference.

Because that's precisely what it is, silly.

 

[bobfree]

Lots of easily panicked cowards in our fanbase

 

[Jpripper88]

I may be remembering this wrong, but I feel like the board 3 weeks ago was near unanimous that Lyke did a great thing that showed Pitt was willing to do whatever it took to get past KS, and showed it wasn't still a cheap school that was going to sit around with fans boiling while contemplating that $10m buy-out. Am I wrong?

I get that some people are upset that Hurley picked another school and we didn't immediately sign a plan B, but I thought the board consensus very recently was "Anyone is better than KS and will move us forward; fire him ASAP, pay the buy-out like a big-boy school would, and get us anyone else" quickly followed by "Lyke being willing to pay that buy-out shows she knows what she's doing."

Things won't get worse on the court, but if the buyout is >$9M AND Lyke had no plan to hire a decent coach, it was a waste of money. We have no chance with Stallings, but we also have no chance with Schmidt or Cluess. Of course, the question stands, if Lyke couldn't be ready with 2+ months to prepare for this search, would another year make her any more ready to make a hire? That seems doubtful, but maybe the roster would have been in better shape for a coach taking over and not an 0-19 record blinking across the bottomline.

 

[Seneca_Valley]

I don't have a ton of hope that you are correct, but I'll do a somersault if Pitt hires a good coach and he's able to retain a handful of the exiting players.

You simply cannot say with any level of certainty as of right now that they made the correct decision. If all the core players leave and you get an unexciting retread hire, then you're worse off, for sure. No additional fans and tickets sold, no returning players that you wasted a year building experience with, plus another Stallings'-level coach.

I made these very same points over a month ago. No one is right until we know the final outcome. Check in a year from now.

But it also doesn't take a genius to realize given where we are today that what you outlined is more likely to happen than not.

 

[ameoba defense]

You need to stop with this silly narrative about Pitt being removed from the conference.

Because that's precisely what it is, silly.

People need to realize that Pitt was not brought in for basketball, but to be a solid second tier program in football, kind of like Wisconsin, Iowa, and MSU are in the B10. We're not there yet, but wins the last two years over Clemson, Penn St., and Miami shows that the potential is there. Football is important at Pitt, which is why Clemson, and Florida St. signed off on our admission. If we start going 0-10 in football, then you get worried.

 

[PittSqueak]

In summary....

fans shouldn't demand an end to "the nightmare" (whatever it is in whatever sport) if they don't understand the complexity of how to fix things outside of immediately scrapping the people/system that is currently in place. Sounds like a sensible piece of advice to fans in the future that I can get behind.

 

[pittbb80]

Lots of easily panicked cowards in our fanbase

I'd add that some "Pitt fans" take more pleasure in Pitt failing or perceived to be failing than they do in their success.

 

[pittiswhereiamfrom2]

In summary....

fans shouldn't demand an end to "the nightmare" (whatever it is in whatever sport) if they don't understand the complexity of how to fix things outside of immediately scrapping the people/system that is currently in place. Sounds like a sensible piece of advice to fans in the future that I can get behind.

Fans demanding and administration doing hold different levels of responsibility.

 

[FireballZ]

In summary....

fans shouldn't demand an end to "the nightmare" (whatever it is in whatever sport) if they don't understand the complexity of how to fix things outside of immediately scrapping the people/system that is currently in place. Sounds like a sensible piece of advice to fans in the future that I can get behind.

It's the "fire everybody" and "put in the backup" mentality that doesn't even ring effective in professional sports, and especially not at the collegiate level.

 

[Pittx9]

I only panicked when I heard the name mark Schmidt. Other than that I'm not worried.

 

[pittbb80]

It's the "fire everybody" and "put in the backup" mentality that doesn't even ring effective in professional sports, and especially not at the collegiate level.

So they should have given sleepy more time to run the program further into the ground?

 

[FireballZ]

So they should have given sleepy more time to run the program further into the ground?

Yes - I believe we may very well see that we weren't yet even at 'rock bottom' under "sleepy". Compounding mistakes (hiring KS in the first place and then firing him too early) wasn't going to get our heads back above water any more quickly. The best pathway, was always in my opinion, to give KS 3 years and hope he could get back to the 6/7 ACC win-level and then you move-on. It's a lot easier to sell that, coupled with a returning core of juniors to a new coach than 0-19 with NOBODY coming back.

 

[pittbb80]

Yes - I believe we may very well see that we weren't yet even at 'rock bottom' under "sleepy". Compounding mistakes (hiring KS in the first place and then firing him too early) wasn't going to get our heads back above water any more quickly. The best pathway, was always in my opinion, to give KS 3 years and hope he could get back to the 6/7 ACC win-level then move-on. It's a lot easier to sell that, coupled with a returning core of juniors to a new coach than 0-19 with NOBODY coming back.

So you were 100% behind keeping Dixon and were against the Stallings hire?

 

[FireballZ]

So you were 100% behind keeping Dixon and were against the Stallings hire?

Of course I was against the Stallings' hire; I've watched a lot of college basketball this century. However, I don't think he is as bad as the fan base chose to believe, I don't think the young nucleus was as bad as believed and I don't think next year would have been as bad as projected by our 'fans'.

As for as JD, I was fine with the mutual decision to separate. I accepted it once it occurred and chose to believe in the best possible pathway back to respectability once they hired KS, which was for him to stabilize the program after year 3. Most people could see last year was going to be a disaster regardless of the coach and I thought Luther getting hurt was actually a bonus because we'd get him back for an additional year and it allowed us to better see what was there with the freshman in what was a lost season anyways.

We'll never know what happened behind closed doors with JD in his final days here. If he was pushed to upgrade staff and he refused than shame on him. If he wasn't given the money to upgrade the staff on his own, then effing shame on us for self-destructing the program.

We were unlikely to ever get better than Dixon unless Howland was a shoe-in to come back. I never had an issue w/ JD's scheduling, as I don't live near Pittsburgh and don't go to home games. He figured out a niche for corrupting the RPI, which was fine with me, because I don't think we'd ever win more than 10/11 games consistently in the ACC, so I think that strategy was needed to continually make the NCAAT. Would he ever overachieve once there? Track record suggests not, but stranger things have happened. It just takes that one year where the stars align. Look at this year's bracket.

 

[pittbb80]

Sorry a good coach doesnt turn the program into a dumpster fire in less than two years. You also dont nudge dixon out without having a significant upgrade on hand, Given Stallings burned the thing to the ground and his recruiting was terrible, you dont give him more time. Admit your mistakes and move on Hoops isnt like football There should be clear signs after year two that the program is headed in the right direction. This team was horribly coached.

 

[FireballZ]

Sorry a good coach doesnt turn the program into a dumpster fire in less than two years. You also dont nudge dixon out without having a significant upgrade on hand, Given Stallings burned the thing to the ground and his recruiting was terrible, you dont give him more time. Admit your mistakes and move on Hoops isnt like football There should be clear signs after year two that the program is headed in the right direction. This team was horribly coached.

We simply do not agree and the reason why is the root of the divide within the fanbase. #1 - I think KS inherited a program where the gasoline was already poured in the dumpster and the selfish star players left behind were enough to ignite the fumes. #2 - I don't think Jamie was pushed out. #3 I thought the 2017 class had potential to be a good base if given the chance to gel for 2 years together.

If you say the 2018 recruiting class wasn't good enough and warranted the firing, I may agree with the first part, but not the latter. However, I think that it's at least a reasonable perspective.

Simply believing like I always have that we'd be in a better position to make a good hire after next season as opposed to right now doesn't mean that I believe KS was the long-term answer. It simply means that I feel it was the most strategic play knowing Calapari or Miller weren't coming in here with a satchel of four and five star recruits to save us overnight.

 

[hoopsguy72]

Yes - I believe we may very well see that we weren't yet even at 'rock bottom' under "sleepy". Compounding mistakes (hiring KS in the first place and then firing him too early) wasn't going to get our heads back above water any more quickly. The best pathway, was always in my opinion, to give KS 3 years and hope he could get back to the 6/7 ACC win-level and then you move-on. It's a lot easier to sell that, coupled with a returning core of juniors to a new coach than 0-19 with NOBODY coming back.

100x this ^^^^

 

[TD_6082]

It was a dumb decision for several reasons, and I thought so at the time.

 

[Panther_in_Kentucky]

I may be remembering this wrong, but I feel like the board 3 weeks ago was near unanimous that Lyke did a great thing that showed Pitt was willing to do whatever it took to get past KS, and showed it wasn't still a cheap school that was going to sit around with fans boiling while contemplating that $10m buy-out. Am I wrong?

I get that some people are upset that Hurley picked another school and we didn't immediately sign a plan B, but I thought the board consensus very recently was "Anyone is better than KS and will move us forward; fire him ASAP, pay the buy-out like a big-boy school would, and get us anyone else" quickly followed by "Lyke being willing to pay that buy-out shows she knows what she's doing."

Yes it was and a high school coach who can stay awake during recruiting is better than KS.

 

[Delpanther]

So you were 100% behind keeping Dixon and were against the Stallings hire?

Keeping Dixon? What does that mean given he had 6 years left on his contract when he skipped town?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

You simply cannot say with any level of certainty as of right now that they made the correct decision.

Sure you can. I mean assuming that you have at least a half a brain.