Dixon said tcu was his dream job

[OhnoBilly!]

And I get that . It means that at the first chance, he would have jumped at it, right?

However, the job opened 4 years ago and he declined. If it really was his ultimate dream job, wouldn't he have left then regardless?

Something changed. The insight that DT gave was very good. Perhaps Gallagher didn't force Dixon out, but it does sound like he let those donors poison the situation, and I think it is obvious Jamie knew about it. Barnes could have simply said to hide donors thanks but we are fine with Jamie, but given how easily they let Dixon walk away, I am guessing he in some way at least was listening to those donors.

I hope this works out. I hope the next coach can do better than Dixon, not only on the court, but as a person and someone that runs a clean program. That will be hard to do though, and Barnes the pitt supporters that were vocal in wanting him gone will have egg on their face if the new guy flops.

 

[Piranha]

And I get that . It means that at the first chance, he would have jumped at it, right?

However, the job opened 4 years ago and he declined. If it really was his ultimate dream job, wouldn't he have left then regardless?

Something changed. The insight that DT gave was very good. Perhaps Gallagher didn't force Dixon out, but it does sound like he let those donors poison the situation, and I think it is obvious Jamie knew about it. Barnes could have simply said to hide donors thanks but we are fine with Jamie, but given how easily they let Dixon walk away, I am guessing he in some way at least was listening to those donors.

I hope this works out. I hope the next coach can do better than Dixon, not only on the court, but as a person and someone that runs a clean program. That will be hard to do though, and Barnes the pitt supporters that were vocal in wanting him gone will have egg on their face if the new guy flops.

JD was loyal to Nordy in particular, and he preferred staying in the BE. A lot has changed in 4 years.

 

[OhnoBilly!]

JD was loyal to Nordy in particular, and he preferred staying in the BE. A lot has changed in 4 years.

Except the problem with saying that is that dj isn't dumb. 4 years ago the big east was falling apart and Jamie would know that. He could have left then if that was one of the main factors.

 

[OhnoBilly!]

JD was loyal to Nordy in particular, and he preferred staying in the BE. A lot has changed in 4 years.

Actually, just double checked. Pitt joined the acc in 2011, and the tcu job was open in 2012.

 

[pittguy81]

The biggest change was Dixon's support system of Nordenburg, SP and Cochran all leaving. They gave him complete autonomy and unquestionably had his back. With the new Chancellor and AD in place some former Golden Panthers/donors made a power play in an effort to regain influence they had in the past. Jamie was getting squeezed and didn't like it.

TCU just put +$80M into basketball facilities renovations and the AD is a long time friend of JD's. He'll make the money he was making, have autonomy once again and much less pressure because there is nowhere to go but up.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I hope this works out. I hope the next coach can do better than Dixon, not only on the court, but as a person and someone that runs a clean program. That will be hard to do though, and Barnes the pitt supporters that were vocal in wanting him gone will have egg on their face if the new guy flops.

Which Dixon? 04-11 Dixon or 12-16 Dixon?

The new coach will absolutely not do better than 04-11 Dixon but Dixon himself would likely have never gotten close to that level again. Many, many coaches in the country could have gone 45-45 in conference and 1-3 in the NCAAT these last 5 years.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

He's saying a lot of things. Wonder if message boarders there will hang on his every phrase and post them for years like here.
'Wall' 'Splash' 'Dream' 'National'

 

[OhnoBilly!]

Which Dixon? 04-11 Dixon or 12-16 Dixon?

The new coach will absolutely not do better than 04-11 Dixon but Dixon himself would likely have never gotten close to that level again. Many, many coaches in the country could have gone 45-45 in conference and 1-3 in the NCAAT these last 5 years.

What about the last 4 years?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

And I get that . It means that at the first chance, he would have jumped at it, right?

However, the job opened 4 years ago and he declined. If it really was his ultimate dream job, wouldn't he have left then regardless?

Something changed. The insight that DT gave was very good. Perhaps Gallagher didn't force Dixon out, but it does sound like he let those donors poison the situation, and I think it is obvious Jamie knew about it. Barnes could have simply said to hide donors thanks but we are fine with Jamie, but given how easily they let Dixon walk away, I am guessing he in some way at least was listening to those donors.

I hope this works out. I hope the next coach can do better than Dixon, not only on the court, but as a person and someone that runs a clean program. That will be hard to do though, and Barnes the pitt supporters that were vocal in wanting him gone will have egg on their face if the new guy flops.

Again, Jamie was butthurt that people were openly questioning the direction of this program. Then that ridiculous coaching performance happened in Wisky, almost an F U to these boosters who wanted a more uptempo style.

As I said in another thread. What did you want or expect Pitt to do? "ohhh Jamie, I am sorry you are feeling kind of bad, here is another raise and extension?" Really? That would have been the worst decision.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

JD was loyal to Nordy in particular, and he preferred staying in the BE. A lot has changed in 4 years.

Including his job performance.

 

[OhnoBilly!]

Again, Jamie was butthurt that people were openly questioning the direction of this program. Then that ridiculous coaching performance happened in Wisky, almost an F U to these boosters who wanted a more uptempo style.

As I said in another thread. What did you want or expect Pitt to do? "ohhh Jamie, I am sorry you are feeling kind of bad, here is another raise and extension?" Really? That would have been the worst decision.

I expect pitt to retain the winningest coach it ever had in basketball and not cave to shortsighted fans and donors.

 

[Hero of the Oppressed]

He might get all of the autonomy he wants at TCU but the money they gave him combined with the investment in facilities will put pressure on him by year 3. I am guessing a 9-9 record in conference makes the AD happy. If Dixon doesn't have them at the .500 line then the meddling will start.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I expect pitt to retain the winningest coach it ever had in basketball and not cave to shortsighted fans and donors.

Again, would you be okay with Pitt giving him another raise and extension?

And "winningest" also means longest tenured. If you had an employee who was fantastic his first 5 years and mediocre in his next 5 years, do you give him raises and bonuses? You may not fire him, but you don't bend over backwards to keep him.

 

[OhnoBilly!]

Again, would you be okay with Pitt giving him another raise and extension?

And "winningest" also means longest tenured. If you had an employee who was fantastic his first 5 years and mediocre in his next 5 years, do you give him raises and bonuses? You may not fire him, but you don't bend over backwards to keep him.

This had nothing to do with money. It had everything to do with Barnes allowing a vocal group of ignorant fans in his ear, and because of that Jamie feeling he needed to leave.

 

[pittguy81]

He might get all of the autonomy he wants at TCU but the money they gave him combined with the investment in facilities will put pressure on him by year 3. I am guessing a 9-9 record in conference makes the AD happy. If Dixon doesn't have them at the .500 line then the meddling will start.

Since joining the Big 12 TCU is 8-60 in conference play. I think as long as they are making positive progress he'll be golden for a bit longer than 3 years, especially with his boy as AD. TCU is a football school anyhow.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

This had nothing to do with money. It had everything to do with Barnes allowing a vocal group of ignorant fans in his ear, and because of that Jamie feeling he needed to leave.

Last 5 years under Jamie Dixon:

112-63. Overall Record. Included in this is the CBI wins, and the ridiculous year by year OOC
45-45 Conference Record
1-3 NCAA Record
4-5 Conference Tourney Record
3 NCAA Bids
1 NIT
7-23 against ranked teams.
Average NCAA seed is a 9 seed.
Average record is 22-13.

Top 25 paid BB coach. You don't think people should have started to put pressure on him?

 

[DT_PITT]

JD was loyal to Nordy in particular, and he preferred staying in the BE. A lot has changed in 4 years.

This is true. Many felt a change could be in order. And when Dixon thought it was time for a change, then there was no doubt that it was.

 

[Jeffburgh]

This had nothing to do with money. It had everything to do with Barnes allowing a vocal group of ignorant fans in his ear, and because of that Jamie feeling he needed to leave.

JD has some ownership of this.

People were that openly disgruntled because he has spent over a half decade now floundering below the expectations he helped to create. His decisions in recruiting, his failure to slay the dragon that chocked him out in tournament play were the primary issues here.

I am on record here repeatedly as saying it was much better to try to get it turned around with him, but end of the day his performing below his own proven standards was the issue.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Since joining the Big 12 TCU is 8-60 in conference play. I think as long as they are making positive progress he'll be golden for a bit longer than 3 years, especially with his boy as AD. TCU is a football school anyhow.

It really was a neat trick - gets paid a lot more to have lower expectations ...

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Last 5 years under Jamie Dixon:

112-63. Overall Record. Included in this is the CBI wins, and the ridiculous year by year OOC
45-45 Conference Record
1-3 NCAA Record
4-5 Conference Tourney Record
3 NCAA Bids
1 NIT
7-23 against ranked teams.
Average NCAA seed is a 9 seed.
Average record is 22-13.

Top 25 paid BB coach. You don't think people should have started to put pressure on him?

How were the last 4 years? Last 6? With nearly a full roster back, would the 5 year window look better or worse after this coming season, in all likelihood?

You seem amenable to looking at various windows of time. You were, after all, banging the "last 4 years" drum all of last season.

 

[DT_PITT]

I expect pitt to retain the winningest coach it ever had in basketball and not cave to shortsighted fans and donors.

I don't think it's correct to say that Pitt "caved" to shortsighted fans and donors.

All the factors involved created a situation where Dixon felt the better choice for him was to go to TCU instead of staying here.

I don't think anyone is to fault anywhere -- including donors who put pressure on. I'll admit that kind of thing is not something I like very much, but it is something that goes with the territory of being a Div I Basketball Coach, especially when your results are not what they once were.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

How were the last 4 years? Last 6? With nearly a full roster back, would the 5 year window look better or worse after this coming season, in all likelihood?

You seem amenable to looking at various windows of time. You were, after all, banging the "last 4 years" drum all of last season.

Yeah. Last 4 years. And then this year, I am banging the "last 5 years". Why? Because they are the last 5 years. 5 is the result of 4+1. 5. If you want, if it would make you feel better, should we only count the odd years? Or the even years? I just focused on the last 5 years since we were a #1 seed, because you see, it was the last 5 years. That is usually how performance is measured. You know, the most recent seasons.

So if you are trying to discount my argument as "cherrypicking", you are doing a pretty poor job of it. Now see, if the last say 7 years were up and down and I only cherry picked the bad years, then yeah you can say I was not being fair. But I picked the last 5 years. Because.......everyone....THEY WERE THE LAST 5 YEARS! Meaning, the last 5 sets of data. Or...the most relevant data. You know, these last 5 years which also contained most of the same assistants. The entire program.

Recruiting. Performance. Scheduling. Post Season Performance. The last 5 years. Since you are a baseball guy, Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee were two of the best pitchers in MLB. If you are the Pirates, would you want them on this staff, especially at their salary? Of course not. Why? The last few years they have been injured and obvious decline. You don't go back to 2008 or 2010 when they were Cy Young guys to make decisions. You go on the most current information.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Yeah. Last 4 years. And then this year, I am banging the "last 5 years". Why? Because they are the last 5 years. 5 is the result of 4+1. 5. If you want, if it would make you feel better, should we only count the odd years? Or the even years? I just focused on the last 5 years since we were a #1 seed, because you see, it was the last 5 years. That is usually how performance is measured. You know, the most recent seasons.

So if you are trying to discount my argument as "cherrypicking", you are doing a pretty poor job of it. Now see, if the last say 7 years were up and down and I only cherry picked the bad years, then yeah you can say I was not being fair. But I picked the last 5 years. Because.......everyone....THEY WERE THE LAST 5 YEARS! Meaning, the last 5 sets of data. Or...the most relevant data. You know, these last 5 years which also contained most of the same assistants. The entire program.

Recruiting. Performance. Scheduling. Post Season Performance. The last 5 years. Since you are a baseball guy, Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee were two of the best pitchers in MLB. If you are the Pirates, would you want them on this staff, especially at their salary? Of course not. Why? The last few years they have been injured and obvious decline. You don't go back to 2008 or 2010 when they were Cy Young guys to make decisions. You go on the most current information.

You were pretty adamant last year that 4 years was the optimum number because it represented a full cycle of player eligibility. Feels like a whole lot of arbitrary end points being used.

I mean, you're right, you go by the most relevant data to make decisions, so why not stick with 4 years again? It is, after all, more recent. And it's consistent. And there was at least some thing to fall back on as a reason for using it that didn't scream "agenda-driven cherrypicking".

Arbitrary endpoints. That's all your response came down to trying to justify.

And, as a baseball guy, the only time that endpoints aren't considered arbitrary is if a drastic change occurs (pitcher adds a new pitch, injury, demotion to AAA, new mechanics, etc.). My argument, constantly, has been that recruiting changed in 2009. Changed again in 2013. The 2013 cycle should have been able to play out, which it wasn't.

There is no reason to use 2011-12 as the beginning of the data, other than convenience. It's totally arbitrary cherry picking.

 

[Hero of the Oppressed]

There was also the pressure felt from many empty seats. Surely Dixon felt that from being in the venue. Never a good thing.

 

[OhnoBilly!]

Last 5 years under Jamie Dixon:

112-63. Overall Record. Included in this is the CBI wins, and the ridiculous year by year OOC
45-45 Conference Record
1-3 NCAA Record
4-5 Conference Tourney Record
3 NCAA Bids
1 NIT
7-23 against ranked teams.
Average NCAA seed is a 9 seed.
Average record is 22-13.

Top 25 paid BB coach. You don't think people should have started to put pressure on him?

Last 4 years.

90-46
3 of 4 ncaa appearances
40-32 in conference

He had set a high standard, but the last 4 years were hardly a dumpster fire like most made them out to be.

 

[OhnoBilly!]

I don't think it's correct to say that Pitt "caved" to shortsighted fans and donors.

All the factors involved created a situation where Dixon felt the better choice for him was to go to TCU instead of staying here.

I don't think anyone is to fault anywhere -- including donors who put pressure on. I'll admit that kind of thing is not something I like very much, but it is something that goes with the territory of being a Div I Basketball Coach, especially when your results are not what they once were.

I'll defer to your judgement as you are more in the know than me, but I still don't like how it went down.

 

[DT_PITT]

Last 4 years.

90-46
3 of 4 ncaa appearances
40-32 in conference

He had set a high standard, but the last 4 years were hardly a dumpster fire like most made them out to be.

Agree, not a dumpster fire at all.

 

[paulbl99]

SIAP
But imo starting to think this split was not amicable as first posed in a few circles

Dixon's farewell to Pitt for me goes like this.....
Pitt gave me great opportunity ....to receive many offers to go somewhere else ...and now I've found it

Barnes farewell

We want to have fun
Speed it up
Still play D
That's how you win today

Just sayin????

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Last 4 years.

90-46
3 of 4 ncaa appearances
40-32 in conference

He had set a high standard, but the last 4 years were hardly a dumpster fire like most made them out to be.

Not a great record when you take into account the out of conference strength of schedule. Not terrible, but not great. That would be a pretty good conference record for the second tier of the ACC (GTech, FSU, NCState, Clemson, etc...), if that is the class we aim to be in.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Not a great record when you take into account the out of conference strength of schedule. Not terrible, but not great. That would be a pretty good conference record for the second tier of the ACC (GTech, FSU, NCState, Clemson, etc...), if that is the class we aim to be in.

My guess is that, with the roster returning and the attrition incurred around the Conference, the average of those 4-year numbers would have been bested next year.

 

[thebadby2]

Again, Jamie was butthurt that people were openly questioning the direction of this program. Then that ridiculous coaching performance happened in Wisky, almost an F U to these boosters who wanted a more uptempo style.

As I said in another thread. What did you want or expect Pitt to do? "ohhh Jamie, I am sorry you are feeling kind of bad, here is another raise and extension?" Really? That would have been the worst decision.

I have always been a Jamie guy,. but the bottom line is he didn't earn any kind of leverage or ring kissing with his performance over the last several years. What he did earn fair and square was some scrutiny and a warmer seat. Only the posters who think we should all just be grateful to make the NCAA tournament and win a postseason game once in a while feel otherwise. Frankly I don't understand that mentality in the slightest and I've been a Pitt fan all my life.

 

[fitzburgh]

Which Dixon? 04-11 Dixon or 12-16 Dixon?

The new coach will absolutely not do better than 04-11 Dixon but Dixon himself would likely have never gotten close to that level again. Many, many coaches in the country could have gone 45-45 in conference and 1-3 in the NCAAT these last 5 years.

Bingo! This isn't a 1-2 year blip in the radar, this is a 5 year consistent decline in a new conference with his support network gone. He'll get much more support from the TCU AD, and let's not forget this is his alma mater. No matter what we all say, when your school comes calling there's a different feeling in accepting the position.

 

[fitzburgh]

Last 4 years.

90-46
3 of 4 ncaa appearances
40-32 in conference

He had set a high standard, but the last 4 years were hardly a dumpster fire like most made them out to be.

That alone is a decent run; however, it came after the 2004-2011 run where we were one of the 5 most successful programs in the nation. If Dixon stayed, then I'd be happy, but there's a chance to find someone better (not guaranteed).

 

[VAPITTALUM]

My guess is that, with the roster returning and the attrition incurred around the Conference, the average of those 4-year numbers would have been bested next year.

So your choosing to use speculation rather than actual performance for your argument to give Dixon more time? What makes you think the players on the current team, running the same style of offense and defense, would have had more success next year?

I'd love to think that the guys coming in, along with adding another year to the current players while losing players due to eligibility periods ending, would result in a better team next year. However, I thought the same would happen for the 2011/2012 season with the introduction of a loaded recruiting class. We all know how that turned out. Who's to say that players like Artis, Young, Wilson, etc. aren't sick of Dixon's style and decide to transfer? A new coach may breathe some fresh air into a program that has gotten stale in the past 4 years.

Don't take my word for it, look at the numbers that matter; the money flowing into program. PITT used to be one of the hottest tickets in Pittsburgh, now the arena is half full, even against conference foes.

 

[pittbb80]

I don't think it's correct to say that Pitt "caved" to shortsighted fans and donors.

All the factors involved created a situation where Dixon felt the better choice for him was to go to TCU instead of staying here.

I don't think anyone is to fault anywhere -- including donors who put pressure on. I'll admit that kind of thing is not something I like very much, but it is something that goes with the territory of being a Div I Basketball Coach, especially when your results are not what they once were.

GREAT POST. THIS NEEDS TO BE PINNED!

 

[Pittbaseball11]

So your choosing to use speculation rather than actual performance for your argument to give Dixon more time? What makes you think the players on the current team, running the same style of offense and defense, would have had more success next year?

I'd love to think that the guys coming in, along with adding another year to the current players while losing players due to eligibility periods ending, would result in a better team next year. However, I thought the same would happen for the 2011/2012 season with the introduction of a loaded recruiting class. We all know how that turned out. Who's to say that players like Artis, Young, Wilson, etc. aren't sick of Dixon's style and decide to transfer? A new coach may breathe some fresh air into a program that has gotten stale in the past 4 years.

Don't take my word for it, look at the numbers that matter; the money flowing into program. PITT used to be one of the hottest tickets in Pittsburgh, now the arena is half full, even against conference foes.

I'm saying that there is one period of time for which a valid argument could be made that Dixon was really struggling and, conveniently, that was the period used pretty consistently in pumping up an otherwise facile argument.

Given the 4-year trend last year compared to the 4-year trend this year, there was improvement. I like Dixon's chances of holding this roster together better than the next coach (although it's both possible the old coach holds it together or it falls apart under Dixon -- Matt put a 25% chance on Artis and Young leaving to go pro so it was on the table).

And, sure the money going into the program is clearly what's important. But people getting all defensive when the reaction from everybody outside of Pittsburgh is, "yeah, know your place and don't be an ingrate", then of course I'm going to point out that the argument against Dixon was, quite literally, based on one period of time (and altered to suit purposes all willy nilly in the hopes that nobody would notice the inherent inconsistencies and the tenuousness of the position in general).