Does 6-6 vs 7-5 vs 8-4 matter to you?

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Say we don't win the Coastal... do you care about being a game or two better or worse?

I honestly don't know that I do. Maybe it's the recent success in conjunction with how bad the division is, but I can't see 8-4 feeling much different from 6-6 this season. Either would be a disappointment with a division that is there for the taking. And all three records would yield a meaningless bowl, and perhaps even the same bowl either way since there is some flexibility in who they select.

I get that we're Pitt, so I hate to be a snobby fan to this degree. But that's just how I feel as we sit here today. I thought Miami would be better heading into the season. And if we can't win this division, it's kind of just whatever regardless if we finish a game out or three/four games out. Now that the players have reiterated just how even more meaningless the bowls now are, I find myself assuming more of an NFL mentality toward this: You either win the division or you don't. That'd be subject to change in future years with a younger team.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Context matters. 6-5 was the greatest thing ever in 1997 when we had nearly seen the program get axed.

After winning a conference championship and coming in to the year with many things having come together fortuitously, in particular the retention of (what was thought to be) a good OL, and optimism about the transfer QB, more was expected. That optimism was unfounded obviously, so any old record north of 5 wins and under 9 is mostly the same, especially since the Bowl deal that gets brokered will find us in the least attractive option regardless of the record.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

the success / failure line for me is winning the coastal. if we win this putrid division, im happy. If we dont, im not..

not sure what or how i'll measure success next year when they get rid of divisions.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Context matters. 6-5 was the greatest thing ever in 1997 when we had nearly seen the program get axed.

After winning a conference championship and coming in to the year with many things having come together fortuitously, in particular the retention of (what was thought to be) a good OL, and optimism about the transfer QB, more was expected. That optimism was unfounded obviously, so any old record north of 5 wins and under 9 is mostly the same, especially since the Bowl deal that gets brokered will find us in the least attractive option regardless of the record.

That's where I'm at. If we had a young team and were playing with the QB of the future, I'd want us to rip off every win we can.

But this season is more like the waning stages of the apex/beginning stages of denouement in this cycle. So I don't know how much there is to build off. It's more like we either do it or we don't.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

the success / failure line for me is winning the coastal. if we win this putrid division, im happy. If we dont, im not..

not sure what or how i'll measure success next year when they get rid of divisions.

Yeah, I think I would feel differently if Miami was some juggernaut. But after seeing how bad everyone sucks again, not winning this division would feel deflating.

Even if we do win it at this point, that GT game taints the season... but I'd still take it. But that was a worse loss than I think this board is even giving it credit for. GT lost its last four games against P5 competition by a total of 183-10. They are SO bad.

 

[Pitt79]

I'm not Reece Bobby, I don't buy "If you're not first your last" Every additional win makes me feel better, And even Reece didn't remember saying that, because he was high at the time.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I'm not Reece Bobby, I don't buy "If you're not first your last" Every additional win makes me feel better, And even Reece didn't remember saying that, because he was high at the time.

I hear you to an extent. Like I said, I think it's some combination of our recent success, our expectations, how bad the division is, and the fact that teams don't care about bowl games anymore (i.e. if they don't care about an extra win or loss one way or the other, it's hard for me to).

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

the success / failure line for me is winning the coastal. if we win this putrid division, im happy. If we dont, im not..

not sure what or how i'll measure success next year when they get rid of divisions.

The overall college football environment is going to impact the thinking there. If a similar off-season occurs, with constant conference jumping, humongous NIL deals among the super powers raiding the helpless peons like us, with inevitable GOR challenges (there’s loopholes in every contract, just a matter of skilled weasel attorneys finding them) and particularly the dropping of all remaining transfer rules and the like (I expect we’ll start to see kids changing schools like underwear midseason)… I might be too jaded to even care.

At some point, if not now then in a couple more years, we’re going to be similar to the B12 or worse, with up to a third of the ACC schools inked to either the B1G or SEC but forced to ride it out due to the divorce settlement, playing grudgingly in the ACC for a couple lame duck years, with the Have Nots in the dust with dubious prospects. That will likely be the end of interest for me.

If things are surprisingly calm and stable, I’ll be more interested in how the new setup works, likely delusional and complacent, but interested.

 

[Upg bobcat]

I guess it all depends on expectations. I was expecting 8-4 or 9-3, so 8-4 would not come as a surprise or disappointment to me (and after I saw the WVU game, my expectations dropped to 8-4 or 7-5). 6-6 would be disappointing.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Need a top 25 finish this year. Narduzzi achieved one last year so it's not like his job is on the line if he doesn't achieve it, but you have to maintain the momentum created from the previous season. Especially as next year is shaping up as rebuilding with more new starters and a difficult schedule.

So 9-3, not a coastal champ (Miami finally figures it out) that finishes with a bowl win, ranked maybe 23rd in final polls, would be considered a successful season. Less than that is a disappointment.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I guess it all depends on expectations. I was expecting 8-4 or 9-3, so 8-4 would not come as a surprise or disappointment to me. 6-6 would be disappointing.

I said before the season that I expect to be 9-3 and hope to be 10-2, and 8-4 is the low end of what I would deem to be acceptable. Not sure I feel that way now. I'm in worry mode a bit with our program. We lost three of our last four against the P5, and we were kind of gifted the one we won.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Need a top 25 finish this year. Narduzzi achieved one last year so it's not like his job is on the line if he doesn't achieve it, but you have to maintain the momentum created from the previous season. Especially as next year is shaping up as rebuilding with more new starters and a difficult schedule.

So 9-3, not a coastal champ (Miami finally figures it out) that finishes with a bowl win, ranked maybe 23rd in final polls, would be considered a successful season. Less than that is a disappointment.

Yeah, I'm cool with 9-3. Chance to get to double digits in a bowl game where both JV squads face off, ha, and a very good chance to finish ranked. I'm starting to think UNC is going to win this division. But it could definitely be Miami or Pitt. But, man, we are really behind the 8-ball after losing a freebie.... at home, no less.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

I said before the season that I expect to be 9-3 and hope to be 10-2, and 8-4 is the low end of what I would deem to be acceptable. Not sure I feel that way now. I'm in worry mode a bit with our program. We lost three of our last four against the P5, and we were kind of gifted the one we won.

I always thought 8-4 a disappointment, even more so seeing how the ACC looks this year. I'll stick with my post above, 9-3, final ranking (probably need a bowl win to be ranked, but a bowl loss and ranking is still a success).

Being ranked at the end of the season is the measuring stick.

 

[pittdan77]

With the preseason expectations, it's difficult to say eight wins feels okay but when you look around a the number of injuries, it's almost easy to wonder if the season will eventually fall apart. We did see this team bounce back after a humiliating loss last year so I don't see anyone quitting. Also pays to remember that the Coastal is still a realistic goal.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

the winner of the coastal division will be a non ranked team, with a most likely 8-4 type record or even 7-5.

our goal is to win it and well, that makes a 7-5 season look a lot better.

 

[Pitt79]

I hear you to an extent. Like I said, I think it's some combination of our recent success, our expectations, how bad the division is, and the fact that teams don't care about bowl games anymore (i.e. if they don't care about an extra win or loss one way or the other, it's hard for me to).

I see every game as not a part of some bigger goal, I see every game as a stand alone entertainment event, that's why I can enthusiastically watch game 12 if we're 0-11, and each win is one more day that I'm happy about what I watched that day, even if it doesn't lead to anything "bigger".

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

the winner of the coastal division will be a non ranked team, with a most likely 8-4 type record or even 7-5.

our goal is to win it and well, that makes a 7-5 season look a lot better.

that would stink, I don't think anyone was happy being coastal champ at 7-5 in 2018. Kind of like being co-champ of the Big East in 2010 with WVU & UCONN.

Need to ranked at end of the season with at least 9 wins. Heck even Wanny turned in a 10 win and 9 win season back to back

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

With the preseason expectations, it's difficult to say eight wins feels okay but when you look around a the number of injuries, it's almost easy to wonder if the season will eventually fall apart. We did see this team bounce back after a humiliating loss last year so I don't see anyone quitting. Also pays to remember that the Coastal is still a realistic goal.

I hope you're right about not quitting. Things were looking questionable at the end of last game. Sims running that ball in on 2nd and goal from the 22 or whatever, when we knew he was running it, raised my suspicions. And there were a few lackadaisical arm tackles in that 4th quarter. Arm tackle attempts, I should say.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

that would stink, I don't think anyone was happy being coastal champ at 7-5 in 2018. Kind of like being co-champ of the Big East in 2010 with WVU & UCONN.

Need to ranked at end of the season with at least 9 wins. Heck even Wanny turned in a 10 win and 9 win season back to back

You’d rather be ranked 25th then win the division?

That makes no sense. I was happy after 2018

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I see every game as not a part of some bigger goal, I see every game as a stand alone entertainment event, that's why I can enthusiastically watch game 12 if we're 0-11, and each win is one more day that I'm happy about what I watched that day, even if it doesn't lead to anything "bigger".

Well yeah. There's no doubt my feelings on a particular day would be affected if we won or lost (at least I think so... I'm already to the point where I can just laugh and shrug a Steeler loss off within seconds). I'm talking more about, for example, a week after the season. Looking back on it.

 

[Pitt79]

Well yeah. There's no doubt my feelings on a particular day would be affected if we won or lost (at least I think so... I'm already to the point where I can just laugh and shrug a Steeler loss off within seconds). I'm talking more about, for example, a week after the season. Looking back on it.

Me too, I don't get upset at losses, but I do feel better on winning days.

 

[Upg bobcat]

You’d rather be ranked 25th then win the division?

That makes no sense. I was happy after 2018

I think Clemson is less of the juggernaut now than it was in 2018. If we win the Coastal this year, we are probably a still a big underdog, but I'd like to think we'd have more of a chance of winning the ACC than in 2018. And winning the ACC should be the main goal each year for Narduzzi.

So this season, I'd say winning the division is more important than finishing ranked.

 

[pittdan77]

I hope you're right about not quitting. Things were looking questionable at the end of last game. Sims running that ball in on 2nd and goal from the 22 or whatever, when we knew he was running it, raised my suspicions. And there were a few lackadaisical arm tackles in that 4th quarter. Arm tackle attempts, I should say.

Yeah, it wasn't a great effort in the 4th. I suppose we'll see.

 

[pittdan77]

Me too, I don't get upset at losses, but I do feel better on winning days.

I don't get mad about games I don't play in although I was sort of flabbergasted that I stayed up to watch that mess.

 

[PittGuy00]

Yeah, I think I would feel differently if Miami was some juggernaut. But after seeing how bad everyone sucks again, not winning this division would feel deflating.

Even if we do win it at this point, that GT game taints the season... but I'd still take it. But that was a worse loss than I think this board is even giving it credit for. GT lost its last four games against P5 competition by a total of 183-10. They are SO bad.

Saturday was GT’s last win of the season. That’s how bad of a loss it was.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I think Clemson is less of the juggernaut now than it was in 2018. If we win the Coastal this year, we are probably a still a big underdog, but I'd like to think we'd have more of a chance of winning the ACC than in 2018. And winning the ACC should be the main goal each year for Narduzzi.

So this season, I'd say winning the division is more important than finishing ranked.

I kind of view the season as the ACC Championship as being the Super Bowl. It's as good as Pitt can do.

I guess my feelings might change once the playoff expands, but I don't think so. We'll have a more realistic chance at getting to it, but we won't have a more realistic chance of winning it.

I remember being really happy after we won certain bowl games back in the day, but I just can't trick myself into believing they matter these days.

 

[Pitt79]

So this season, I'd say winning the division is more important than finishing ranked.

Definitely, College Football is such eye test, subjective BS, I'd rather win a trophy they give you just because you won certain games, than a trophy you get because people have an opinion that you are good.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I remember being really happy after we won certain bowl games back in the day, but I just can't trick myself into believing they matter these days.

yeah, as every year passes, bowl games are less relevant. seniors sitting out, coaches treating it like an exhibition so i dont care about winning or losing those, not nearly as much as a regular season game and not even in the same category as a conference championship game.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Well yeah. There's no doubt my feelings on a particular day would be affected if we won or lost (at least I think so... I'm already to the point where I can just laugh and shrug a Steeler loss off within seconds). I'm talking more about, for example, a week after the season. Looking back on it.

I rarely can regard a game without the context of the overall impact on the full season. For example the 13-9 WVU game didn’t impact me very much, it was fun in the sense it destroyed WVU’s chances of a championship forever. But as a Pitt game, I watched and contemplated it almost in disgust, with the realization the team would quite probably had done far better than 5-7 that season if it had been coached up to play the outstanding, unpredictable defense it played that evening. The best feeling I got out of it was that it SURELY predicated better things to come the following season (which of course it did NOT). But even today when someone waxes with enthusiasm about 13-9, I don’t join in. 5th win. Big whoop.

Someone wrote on a thread on the board today, to the effect that last season was the best Pitt will ever have again, so you better have enjoyed it. I enjoyed it ok, quite a bit, but what I also enjoyed about it was the optimism generated for this season, to take it to a new level. And that now has mostly evaporated. So Pitt can go out Saturday and paste VT like it should, that’ll be all well and good but placed in context, it won’t do much for me as the season is tarnished already. Bad or stupid attitude, go ahead and heap the scorn but that’s how I’m wired.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

yeah, as every year passes, bowl games are less relevant. seniors sitting out, coaches treating it like an exhibition so i dont care about winning or losing those, not nearly as much as a regular season game and not even in the same category as a conference championship game.

My best friend isn't a college football fan and always tells me he doesn't know how I could even follow Pitt knowing that they have no shot. I always responded that college football is a different animal from the pros; it's not championship-or-bust; many teams can end their season on a high note; blah blah.

I still think that's completely true. It's just that the high note is a conference championship, not simply winning a bowl game. I'm not even sure that I'll watch a bowl game this year. I was always against the people who bitched that there were too many bowl games. I always figured more football = better, and they don't have to watch them if they don't want to. Now, they actually make me mad because people take things from them that they shouldn't. Our team was 17 - 21 points better than Michigan State's team last season. It pisses me off that anyone would think different (or give the BIG a check over the ACC) because of what transpired in an exhibition game. It shouldn't be a blemish on your record like it used to be. It's starting to irk me that we're still playing them.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I rarely can regard a game without the context of the overall impact on the full season. For example the 13-9 WVU game didn’t impact me very much, it was fun in the sense it destroyed WVU’s chances of a championship forever. But as a Pitt game, I watched and contemplated it almost in disgust, with the realization the team would quite probably had done far better than 5-7 that season if it had been coached up to play the outstanding, unpredictable defense it played that evening. The best feeling I got out of it was that it SURELY predicated better things to come the following season (which of course it did NOT). But even today when someone waxes with enthusiasm about 13-9, I don’t join in. 5th win. Big whoop.

Someone wrote on a thread on the board today, to the effect that last season was the best Pitt will ever have again, so you better have enjoyed it. I enjoyed it ok, quite a bit, but what I also enjoyed about it was the optimism generated for this season, to take it to a new level. And that now has mostly evaporated. So Pitt can go out Saturday and paste VT like it should, that’ll be all well and good but placed in context, it won’t do much for me as the season is tarnished already. Bad or stupid attitude, go ahead and heap the scorn but that’s how I’m wired.

I hear you, but I just never thought elevating our program beyond what we did last season was realistic.

It actually concerned me when I heard so many players mentioning a national championship before the season, because it made me think, "Does that mean they're just going to cash out on the season once we lose our second game?"

Of course, I didn't expect that to come so soon.

The season, in my opinion, is still a success if we win the Coastal. But I have some major doubts as to the feasibility of that. I watched Kansas play the other night, and they SUCK. Combine that with what Texas did to a WVU team we barely squeaked by, and I'm starting to think we might be a lot worse than I want to accept.

Us not beating the doors off VT or Tennesse struggling at LSU this week might be the next stage(s) in that acceptance.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

My best friend isn't a college football fan and always tells me he doesn't know how I could even follow Pitt knowing that they have no shot. I always responded that college football is a different animal from the pros; it's not championship-or-bust; many teams can end their season on a high note; blah blah.

I still think that's completely true. It's just that the high note is a conference championship, not simply winning a bowl game. I'm not even sure that I'll watch a bowl game this year. I was always against the people who bitched that there were too many bowl games. I always figured more football = better, and they don't have to watch them if they don't want to. Now, they actually make me mad because people take things from them that they shouldn't. Our team was 17 - 21 points better than Michigan State's team last season. It pisses me off that anyone would think different (or give the BIG a check over the ACC) because of what transpired in an exhibition game. It shouldn't be a blemish on your record like it used to be. It's starting to irk me that we're still playing them.

i like them because they are almost like a preview of the upcoming season. i honestly like when most graduatinng seniors and early nfl draft enrollees dont play in them, i prefer that they dont.

I dont want to see a 5th year senior play left tackle in the sun bowl over a redshirt freshman who will be on the team in the upcoming season..

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

There’s a big difference between 8-4 and 6-6. Let’s not get it twisted. A good coach at Pitt averages 8 wins a year. We are in the 40-50 range in regards to financial support and it isn’t an easy place to win.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

The goal of playing each game is to win that game therefore the more games won the better

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

There’s a big difference between 8-4 and 6-6. Let’s not get it twisted. A good coach at Pitt averages 8 wins a year. We are in the 40-50 range in regards to financial support and it isn’t an easy place to win.

As a general rule of thumb, I would agree. This is more about how I feel this specific season.

Although I don't think most of the country is able to differentiate between 4-8 and 8-4 when it comes to Pitt. Before last season, so many national writers would talk about us like we were in a class with freaking Illinois and Cal and whatnot. It's like they only look at your high points. If you go 8-4, 7-5, 8-4, 7-5, you're completely irrelevant. But if you go 4-8, 11-1, 8-4, 6-6 they'll remember that 11-1 season and give you more respect... even though you won one less game in that same amount of time.

Our "floor" has been one of the more impressive things about this program since Walt Harris took over. We don't have the 3-9 seasons that even some really good programs do. But it's just like nobody cares about that. They just want to see your highlight tape and evaluate based on that.

 

[cpc247]

the success / failure line for me is winning the coastal. if we win this putrid division, im happy. If we dont, im not..

not sure what or how i'll measure success next year when they get rid of divisions.

This is spot on. We have a talented roster for this division. We need to play better offense. College football comes down to throwing the ball down field. Having a dual threat QB who can run the option when needed. Lastly running off tackle. We have the talent to win this division and should be disappoint with anything less.

 

[Jim Z]

With a weak schedule and playing in the weakest division in Power 5 football either record should be unattractive to honest fans

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

You’d rather be ranked 25th then win the division?

That makes no sense. I was happy after 2018

yep, thought Wanny's 2009 3rd place Big East season that finished in the top 25 was much better than the 2018 Coastal championship season with a 7-7 record that also featured a loss to your bitter rival by over 40 points.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

yep, thought Wanny's 2009 3rd place Big East season that finished in the top 25 was much better than the 2018 Coastal championship season with a 7-7 record that also featured a loss to your bitter rival by over 40 points.

I agree in retrospect, but that was after a drubbing against Clemson. I'd like to at least have a chance to play in the ACC Championship games this season.

That said, at this point, I would take either of:

1) 9-3, a top 25 finish, no Coastal Championship

2) A Coastal Championship

The more I think about how bad GT is and how bad our offense and linebackers look, the more I'm starting to wonder if we can do better than 7-5.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

As a general rule of thumb, I would agree. This is more about how I feel this specific season.

Although I don't think most of the country is able to differentiate between 4-8 and 8-4 when it comes to Pitt. Before last season, so many national writers would talk about us like we were in a class with freaking Illinois and Cal and whatnot. It's like they only look at your high points. If you go 8-4, 7-5, 8-4, 7-5, you're completely irrelevant. But if you go 4-8, 11-1, 8-4, 6-6 they'll remember that 11-1 season and give you more respect... even though you won one less game in that same amount of time.

Our "floor" has been one of the more impressive things about this program since Walt Harris took over. We don't have the 3-9 seasons that even some really good programs do. But it's just like nobody cares about that. They just want to see your highlight tape and evaluate based on that.

Washington seems a good example. One really good year —- 2016ish? Flirted with playoff if I recall? Maybe another good season after (but not to that level). Not much since, think they only won 5 the last couple years. But I’d bet that more are impressed by them than us.