I quite agree, and the more talent recruited the tougher the competition and why some Players would do well to go elsewhere where they can play right away.
No Truer Words Spoken by you and I enjoy your postings on the Lair and BWI!
Dorsett Almost went to PSU
- Thread starter pittdan77
- Start date
No Truer Words Spoken by you and I enjoy your postings on the Lair and BWI!
Spot-on, Captain. Paterno believed in his heart that UPS football could not exist without him at the helm. But ironically, he was the main person who was holding them back from being better.
It was often said on these boards that Pitt fans should hope that Paterno stayed to coach UPS until he turned 100, because UPS would never be great again as long as he remained as the head coach.
Chad Henning, Kevin Jones and Terrelle Pryor all had hate mail after rejecting Penn State by some wayward PSU CULTists! Such fans do a disservice to Penn State University, Penn State Football, and only ends up hurting their favorite Team, and other Penn State Fans should condemn then but some egg them on to keep doing it.No argument about that.
Back then, just about everyone close to State College with a UPS offer would go to UPS - or risk having their house burned to the ground by The Cult.
Jackie would have broken JoePa in half over his knee.
Well, maybe not then, but several years later... boy did they not like each other.
Well, maybe not then, but several years later... boy did they not like each other.
Yep, and unfortunately, Pitt Harris was in position to take advantage of Paterno in his later years but he was burning out and just did not play the recruiting game as many other Head Coaches with High School Coaches.
When Wannstedt came on Board he really put Pitt back in with High School Coaches, but then Nordenberg brought back Pederson and Pitt went through another 4 Coaches until he was fired, building up recruiting classes and watching them dissolve with every change.
I blame Pitt for mistakes by Pitt and not finding the right people, not Paterno or Penn State or WVU? It is up to Pitt to figure it out not anyone else.
Why I love what Gallagher and Juhl did, they fired Pederson, and found Narduzzi and Barnes. And if they do it, find someone else too. It is not about Nordy, Pederson, or anyone it is about Pitt!
Pitt found the support and right people in 1972 they can do it again!
Compare that to what happened at UPS, when the President and the AD reportedly went to Paterno's house for the sole purpose of getting his resignation, but left with nothing more than their tails between their legs - and Joe coached on.
I know two guys, both starters, both very good, that played for PSU and downright hated Paterno. Never clear why. The one guy used to tell recruits not to go there. I know a few others that loved Paterno. I don't know, I hated a lot of my coaches too. Guess that happens anywhere.
Jackie knew Paterno was writing letters to the NCAA claiming Recruiting Violations. They did not like each other and Jackie talked to Bear Byant his mentor on how to grate on Paterno!
At the same time, Jackie will admit he got cocky and with a 14-0 lead did not start running the ball, and allowed Penn State to get back into the game and lost 48-14, and Jackie left that season for the money at A&M for $1.2 million Package!
Joe was making just about $60,000 and needed two $300,000 Loans to help make ends meet for his big family. Joe turned down many jobs while Jackie biggest regret was ever leaving Pitt.
Jackie was big enough to admit his mistakes too and Joe was not so vocal. At the very time Joe Paterno was condemning Jackie Sherrill and Barry Switzer on an "
Off The Record "Comments he blamed the Media for but underhandedly knew it would go Public, Penn State was using The Second Mile and approaching Disadvantage Children and Recruits and passing out PSU Players Cards and in the name of helping boys and were outright NCAA Violations??? So much for some Penn State Hypocrisy and later Crimes on Children by one of their Founders that was a PSU Player, Graduate, Coach, Professor, and Employee? And now all of a sudden a one man criminal that never existed as part of the Penn State Program, and is the only one to blame, even though Joe all of the sudden did all the right things by reporting it to Curley as abused continued and NCAA Violations and other Non-Compliance issues???? Yet, the people that fixed the University are wrong because they acted to reform the University and Football Program???? All of sudden nothing was wrong at Penn State???? So much for more abuse of logic, character, and ethics!Later it was Alabama that exposed Paterno's Private Apartments for their Players next to Penn State practice facilities when Joe claimed Penn State did not have Athletic dorms like Alabama and Bear Bryant just corrected Paterno into hypocrisy silence and beat him every time they played???
In addition, later in the 1980s, it was Alabama that exposed the bad Ref Calls that benefited Paterno's Penn State Teams by Ref Guman that had his own son playing in games he was an Officiating??? SEC passed Ref Rules after that no Ref could Officiate Any Games if he was a relative or knew any players. Paterno's National Title in 1982 was tainted by 4 Game Calls that help them win games that year.
Eastern Independents did not have a Conference Paterno kept picking Ref Guman in games until WVU, Pitt, Cuse, BC and other Coaches said, the game won't be played if Ref Guman is one of the Officials.
One reason why Paterno was so upset with Michigan, OSU, and other Big Ten Games is that he knew he was being robbed on some wins on some bad calls, and demanded Instant Replay or he would take PSU out of the Big Ten? Another indication that Penn State had no Institutional Control over Paterno by the way?
If the NCAA had actually investigated Paterno's Program over the Curtis Enis Agent Covering Up Gifts and being in the Penn State Locker Room all season long. The NCAA was giving Paterno passes when he and The Second Mile needed investigated and it all came back on the NCAA too!
One person's smart competitor looking for an edge is another person's criminal and hypocrisy is not the wrong word, in CFB History or today? Paterno exhibited both but the Media and Penn State Public Relations Protection Mobfia eventually led to The Worst College Football Scandal Of All Time?
Jackie after having a Make-Up Dinner requested by Joe & Sue came away saying nice things about Joe, but also portended, that Joe will have just one big problem, he won't know when to retire, and Jackie actually proved to be right on that aspect that caused Paterno to cry about his reputation and legacy before he died?
As a wise man once quipped, when you out live your critics you can brag about being more right than them? Jackie is still alive and Paterno cried his last days about what he did not do and ruined what he loved doing all his life, and he knew it.
Some Penn State Fans blame Corbett, NCAA, DPW, Sandusky, Erickson, Trustees, Joyner etc but Paterno knew the blame on on him and what he did and failed to do when it came to stand up and instead covered up and worried more about job then children in need of help as they cried in silence.
There is plenty of second guessing and blame to go around on many not just Joe, but Joe had to answer too?
In the meantime, many Penn State Fans are right to when they say he was still a great coach and he was too!
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It was a LOIC a clear case of a Lack Of Institutional Control and the NCAA should have investigated when it was reported in the Media. This is how most NCAA Investigations actually begin.
When you add in Department of Education Clery Act, Title IX Act, and other Non-Compliance issues, it is proof not everything was running noble, straight, and forthright at Penn State! Yes, Spanier is the one to blame too, because it is the University President to uphold NCAA Rules and DOE Compliance!
At the same time, Paterno was just too strong to be put in place and that is the fault of the Trustees but not like some Penn State Fans demand to protect the Program that was full of Non-Compliance, LOIC, and Crimes on Children!
How does one know that is a correct assessment? Today, the Penn State Football Head Coach and all Athletic Coaches and many Employees are under such Rules, regulations, and Laws, and must take seminars in making sure they know their duties and know their regulations.
Penn State University is a far better University under such Reforms and without Joe Paterno!
Wouldn't you've loved to be a fly on the wall during that conversation?
"Resign?!?!?!? Don't you know who you're talking to???!!!! I built this place! I am Penn State!!! And in case you've forgotten, I got enough on both of you to send your asses to prison for the rest of your days!!! Now get the hell out of my house, before I decide to fire you!!!!"
Blackmail Or LOIC Or Both? Either way, the Football coach was calling the Shots not the College President and the NCAA did not investigate after reported in the Media?
It seems clearer that Joe wanted Jay to take over and that any plan that didn't allow that was not going to fly.
I'll stop. That should be enough to stir the pot.
Looks to factual to be believed. That just doesn't compute, or should I say compost, with some people
Don't have the time but here are some LINKS!
Also, Joe was not responsible but President Spanier was, but Paterno insisted only himself could discipline his players, and Penn state was never in compliance with the Clery Act until 2012! Joe also played players that were suspended by the Unversity and it was often only found out after Recruiting Signing Day, so as not to show Joe did not run a clean Football Program as many thought and he promoted?
To be fair, many schools also updated their Clery Act Compliance, but many more schools were in complete compliance too.
Moreover to be even more fair, Penn State is a Model of Clery Act Compliance and goes beyond the requirements right now.
Furthermore, to be even more generous and fair Coach Franklin and all his Coaches are under the President of Penn State, Director of Ethics & Compliance, and Athletic Integrity Officer that Paterno was never under during his entire tenture at Penn State.
Franklin is actually doing a better job on discipline, compliance and following all rules, regulations and laws than Paterno ever did and is doing a better job in recruiting better players of character and talent.
LINK PENN STATE CLERY ACT VIOLATIONS BEFORE 2012:
http://www.centredaily.com/2013/07/15/3688570_penn-state-receives-preliminary.html?rh=1
Penn State has received a preliminary report from the U.S. Department of Education about whether the university violated a federal campus security law, officials said Monday.
Penn State will not release details from report from the Education Department, whose review of the university’s compliance with the Clery Act was triggered by the Jerry Sandusky child abuse case in November 2011. The review period covers 13 years, from 1998 to 2011.
By law, the Education Department has to keep the report confidential at this stage, and Penn State said it would uphold the confidentiality.
“The university is committed to fully engaging in the review process and will maintain the confidentiality of the report,” Penn State officials said in a news release.
Penalties include monetary fines, and at worst, a loss of federal student aid.
The ball is now in Penn State’s court. With the receipt of the report, Penn State will begin preparing its response and will submit that to the Education Department, whose authorities then will issue what’s called a final program review determination.
U.S. Rep. Glenn Thompson, R-Howard Township, continues to follow the Education Department’s review, a spokesman said Monday.
The Clery Act requires universities to publicly report when crimes, such as sex offenses, homicides, robberies and other felonies, occur on campus or certain off-site locations, such as fraternity or sorority houses or remote classrooms. The law also requires universities to publish a daily log of reported crimes and the nature of the crime.
Penn State President Rodney Erickson previously has said the university expects the review to find violations of the Clery Act before November 2011.
“We’re certainly well aware of some deficiencies that we had in terms of compliance with the Clery Act,” Erickson said in November 2012, in an interview reflecting on the first year of the Sandusky scandal’s effect on Penn State.
Penn State could face fines of $27,500 for each violation after 2002. Before 2002, the fine is $25,000 per violation.
In the time since the review of Penn State started, the university hired a full-time Clery Act compliance director, Gabriel Gates, who since March 2012 has worked to set up protocols for reporting. The university also put in place mandatory Clery Act training for employees.
It’s also given the Education Department “unfettered access” to records and information, according to a news release.
The Freeh report, released a year ago, could point to possible violations, said Clery Act expert S. Daniel Carter, of the 32 National Campus Safety Initiative in Washington.
For instance, Carter said, there was not an appropriate policy or guideline in place to collect information about crimes from people who were supposed to report them. That was changed in 2007, he said, but over the next four years, only one report was made.
“The lack of that process would probably be the main finding,” Carter said.
The Freeh report itself says the university’s failure to fully implement the Clery Act contributed to the 2001 shower incident involving Sandusky not being reported.
Another violation could be in the 1998 shower incident that was investigated by university police but was not prosecuted. On Penn State’s crime log, the incident was referred to as an administrative matter and not a reported sexual offense.
Police logs are one of the numerous documents the Education Department requested from Penn State when the two sides met in late November 2011 to start the review. The department also wanted a list that showed who had Clery Act reporting duties, a list of time warnings and emergency notifications from 1998 to 2011, and copies of annual security reports that are required by the law.
Thompson will weigh in once further information is made available concerning the department’s report, his spokesman said.
Carter thinks Penn State’s penalty could be larger that the record $350,000 against Eastern Michigan University. In that case, Eastern Michigan officials said they did not suspect foul play in a female student’s death in late 2006 but the Education Department’s review found that authorities thought it was suspicious. Another student was charged with rape and murder two months later, and that’s when the university announced a crime had occurred.
Mike Dawson can be reached at 231-4616. Follow him on Twitter @MikeDawsonCDT.
Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2013/07/...-receives-preliminary.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy
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I heard the recruiting story directly from Dorsett. PSU wanted him every bit as much as Pitt, but as a DB. Paterno told him he'd have an opportunity to play RB after a year or two. There was another player Pitt also recruited in the class who was really good friends with TD can't recall the name. Jackie Sherrill I heard on SiriusXM state he "got kicked out of Hopewell high school". The previous Pitt staff didn't show up there to recruit players in prior years so the Hopewell staff was skeptical of Pitt. Jackie stayed persistent and said he became really close with the Dorsett family as a result.
The Clery Act violations and (apparent) lack of penalties regarding PSU is a head scratcher. I guess it could be that it has been kept "confidential", but that information should be public record as is all crime related information on college campuses - hence - THE CLERY ACT.
I actually was involved with the roll out of this in the early 90's. It is not rocket science folks - it's just information gathering. But here's the sticky wicket - how does one "gather the information" if the information is never reported? In all fairness, I suspect many large campus towns have sat on reporting crime information, mainly because said towns rely 100% on the success of the University. It's a very incestuous relationship.
However, with PSU there were crimes reported which officials CHOSE not to report as was their obligation to the Department of Education. And the fact that PSU never even had a compliance office for this is mind boggling. The for profit schools I consulted with all created mechanisms to abide by the law. As I said above, it really isn't rocket science. Mind boggling that this has been swept under the rug.
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Thanks Captain,I didn't know too much about the Clery Act!But to be serious I don't know too much about anything but sports.
If you don't report the child rapes or any other crimes (which for over a decade psu had a 0% crime rate according to them) then of course it will not show in the cleary report you tool
This is why facts matter to form good opinions and someone that argues opinions to support his opinions, get silly and upset, later when it is pointed out.
Also, to be fair, Penn State has the most NFL #1 Draft Busts more than Pitt and that is because they put more Players into the NFL?
Yet, other Programs have put more Players into the NFL then Penn State and Penn State leads with the most Draft Busts, and this comes from the Paterno Era???
Yet, this really upsets only Penn State Fans and they say those facts don't matter????
Also, to be fair, Penn State has the most NFL #1 Draft Busts more than Pitt and that is because they put more Players into the NFL?
Yet, other Programs have put more Players into the NFL then Penn State and Penn State leads with the most Draft Busts, and this comes from the Paterno Era???
Yet, this really upsets only Penn State Fans and they say those facts don't matter????
From Pro-Football-Refernce.com. Penn State has had 356 players drafted in the NFL. Of those 356 players they have had 40 first team All Pros and 113 pro-bowlers. Pitt has had 295 players drafted. Of those 295 there were 41 first team All Pros and 121 pro-bowlers. As I said, PSU = quantity, Pitt = quality.
Hogwash.... TD is Pitt all the way!
He would have never of went to Ped State!!
He would have never of went to Ped State!!
Pitt out recruit Paturdo. Besides, Dorsett saved himself the exposure of knowing children were being raped by members of their coaching staff. Pathetic State "Success with Honor" HA HA
Just watched the NFL's top 100 for 2015. Four Pitt players (Donald, Fitzgerald, Revis, McCoy) Two from Penn State (Wake, Hali). None from WVU. Flacco was on it, a former Pitt recruit and player.
I did an Update that just rated all current players last year between the 3 schools, Pitt, WVU, Penn State and it included All Pro, PlayerS of the Years and by AFC and NFC Conferences , Rookies Of The Year by Conferences and League, and Hall of Fames.
Pitt had 50%m of the Players compared to Penn State but way bigger numbers of Awards, Records, Pro Bowls, and it really upset the Nittany Lion Fans that tried but could not refute it. WVU Fans accepted Pitt has had better players in NCAA and NFL Awards and Record Books, but the Penn State Fans just resorted in saying those numbers, statistics, awards, and records are not important???
I conceded that Pitt had less wins than Penn State and WVU the last 40 years and saluted them for it, and I put that blame squarely on Pitt, with no excuses.
It is just comical this upsets Penn State Fans and some like Load1076 came on the Lair and just re-posted much how Penn State BWI Posters attack Pitt on BWI saying those unimportant, it just reveals them for being upset about it.
They have a hard time of accepting that 46 Years of Joseph Vincent Paterno-Gerry Sandusky Era winning and beating Pitt with his Scandals of not following all the rules, regulations compliances and laws, and they are still chasing Pitt Records, Players, and Awards???
Including how Pitt in 2004 was cited as being in the Top Five of Quality Players put into the NFL after USC and Miami and in 2014 where Pitt is ranked just behind Miami, USC and Notre Dame, and Penn State not there.
They will bring up having more Wins and i congratulate and salute it and well deserved as I am concern, but boy they hate it when you show it led to Sanctions and shamed the name Penn State University!
There is something wrong a number of the Penn State Fans that only praise Penn State Accomplishments and tear down Pitt and many other Football Programs like Michigan, Notre Dame, USC, Ohio State, and Miami where Pitt is right up there with those Programs in College Football History and Penn State is still chasing to be there???
So, they knock down those Programs and Pitt to make themselves feel better and have no idea how much of a Loser they look like by other Programs Fans.
The good news now that the Penn State Scandal is known worldwide, all programs look down upon Penn State more these days and Penn State can no longer have that made-up delusional swagger that Paterno's self-created public relations that they were superior and later exposed under the sanctions and scandal.
Paterno cried because he knew his self-created publicity could no longer hide his complicity and later admitted he should have done more, and his legacy went up in the same smoke he made in covering up his Program. This upsets them even more, as the blame, the PSU Trustees, Media, NCAA, Corbett, Big Ten and everyone but Paterno-Sandusky Era?
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It's just typical arguing. You argue the point that makes your argument more valid. The name of the game in any sport is championships and in the last 40 years we have been about even, and overall Pitt has the edge. And that is why penn state and wvu fans try to downplay the past.
According to psu fans anything that happened before the 1960's doesn't count because it helps THEIR argument. With wvu it's anything before the 2000's.
So where are we today? None of the three teams have really torn it up on the field lately and since 2000 we have all been pretty much even with wvu having the edge. So they attack attendance and anything else that makes them look better. They know they haven't been much better, so attendance is all they can find. Of course I would like to win a lot of games and championships, but we don't have that luxury. But I would take Pitt's NFL success over attendance any day of the week. The goals for a lot of those kids playing in college is to make it in the NFL and for Pitt all that success does help in recruiting. Aaron Donald is someone that any kid would love to follow. Who expected this much from him?
As for psu fans, I understand the pride and school spirit thing. What I don't understand is their constant chest pounding and bragging in the wake of the worst scandal in all of sports. These tragedies are supposed to humble people, but it seems to have just made psu fans even more hard to take. I really don't get it. If that same thing happened at Pitt, I would still love Pitt, but I wouldn't be talking how great Pitt was to everyone that I came across. I would show a lot more humility. That is also why 409 means so much to them because it puts them at the top of something. Ironically to me, wouldn't mind if Pitt could brag about 409 but I also would ask myself if our coach had been here for 45 years and only won two national titles, they why did we keep him around so long? But that is just me. I think its makes them look bad. There are many coaches who were around a lot less time and won less games but won more titles.
According to psu fans anything that happened before the 1960's doesn't count because it helps THEIR argument. With wvu it's anything before the 2000's.
So where are we today? None of the three teams have really torn it up on the field lately and since 2000 we have all been pretty much even with wvu having the edge. So they attack attendance and anything else that makes them look better. They know they haven't been much better, so attendance is all they can find. Of course I would like to win a lot of games and championships, but we don't have that luxury. But I would take Pitt's NFL success over attendance any day of the week. The goals for a lot of those kids playing in college is to make it in the NFL and for Pitt all that success does help in recruiting. Aaron Donald is someone that any kid would love to follow. Who expected this much from him?
As for psu fans, I understand the pride and school spirit thing. What I don't understand is their constant chest pounding and bragging in the wake of the worst scandal in all of sports. These tragedies are supposed to humble people, but it seems to have just made psu fans even more hard to take. I really don't get it. If that same thing happened at Pitt, I would still love Pitt, but I wouldn't be talking how great Pitt was to everyone that I came across. I would show a lot more humility. That is also why 409 means so much to them because it puts them at the top of something. Ironically to me, wouldn't mind if Pitt could brag about 409 but I also would ask myself if our coach had been here for 45 years and only won two national titles, they why did we keep him around so long? But that is just me. I think its makes them look bad. There are many coaches who were around a lot less time and won less games but won more titles.
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ncyajleel, post: 241476, member: 2576"It's just typical arguing. You argue the point that makes your argument more valid.
I do not mind at all recognizing whenever WVU or Penn State does better than Pitt in College Football or any Sport. I believe competing against one another is good for all, and I respect many fine aspects of all 3 Schools. When they Post Information that I know to be accurate, I salute them. When they challenge aspects they do not like to admit about Pitt, I challenge them. I defend Pitt History and Accomplishments on the Lair without apologies. Moreover, I will not post derogatory information on BWI or Mountaineers Boards out of respect.
The name of the game in any sport is championships and in the last 40 years we have been about even, and overall Pitt has the edge. And that is why penn state and wvu fans try to downplay the past.
I understand that, but i also recognize the WVU just missed having a few more Championships like with Major Harris got hurt in against ND in NCS Title game of the 1980's. As well as, Pitt knocking them out in 2007.
Additionally, to be fair Penn State did have 4 Undefeated Seasons that in my opinion, did not get credit for NCS in 1968-69-74-94, and missed out against Bama in 1979. Still, Pitt also ended up #2 a number of times and missed out on even more.
According to psu fans anything that happened before the 1960's doesn't count because it helps THEIR argument. With wvu it's anything before the 2000's.
The 1980s was a remarkable Decade for Independents like PITT, PSU, WVU, ND, MIAMI, BC, CUSE, FSU, and BYU. They played in many of the 4 and 5 Big Bowls and often against each other, and kept all the Bowl Money. It caused SEC to propose the BCS and Conferences started to invite Independents to join in the 1990s, so that would no longer happen as much. Today, only ND & BYU are Independent and ND is ACC Related!
So where are we today? None of the three teams have really torn it up on the field lately and since 2000 we have all been pretty much even with wvu having the edge.
I agree and they hate pointing that out since WVU has had a New Coach for over 4 years, Penn state 2 years, and Pitt just again this year. I keep telling them we all need to get better and start playing each other again to grow in the ACC, B1G, and Big-12. But even the Penn Staters did not want Pitt in the Big Apple Bowl.
However, I do think Franklin is now in a position to win 9 and 10 games first, Holgrosen may be able to do it with many Players back, and Pitt offense should be pretty good, but again we are breaking in an entire New Coach & Staff? We shall see?
So they attack attendance and anything else that makes them look better. They know they haven't been much better, so attendance is all they can find.
I never saw a Fan win a game? But I have seen many Fans build and support a Program and I salute WVU & PSU for that too. Pitt needs to do more and Pederson Poison remnants is still in the system. Penn State also has many advantages on recruiting with 3000 invited to camps, coaching clinics, budgets, travel, and location.
Of course I would like to win a lot of games and championships, but we don't have that luxury. But I would take Pitt's NFL success over attendance any day of the week.
Although this is your opinion and I respect it, others that hate Pitt should respect it too. Even if they prefer Wins and I compliment and respect them on that too!
The goals for a lot of those kids playing in college is to make it in the NFL and for Pitt all that success does help in recruiting. Aaron Donald is someone that any kid would love to follow. Who expected this much from him?
WVU & PSU certainly have had good players put in the NFL too, but not what Donald did in his last year at Pitt and First Year in the Pros? The Penn State and WVU fans that say that is not important is because they fear Recruits will see they can learn and play at Pitt and prepare for the NFL sooner and better than at Penn State or WVU! This is a fact they cannot refute!
As for psu fans, I understand the pride and school spirit thing. What I don't understand is their constant chest pounding and bragging in the wake of the worst scandal in all of sports. These tragedies are supposed to humble people, but it seems to have just made psu fans even more hard to take. I really don't get it.
I understand it, but they blame everyone else and pray to Paterno when it all happen under the Paterno Years??? Especially the NCAA Rules Lack of Institutional Control, Compliance Violations, and Crimes and Alleged Crimes not just by Sandusky but by their own Players and President, Athletic Director and VP? They cannot accept that Paterno as Paterno even said, was a flawed Man and not a Saint. They know very well, what was exposed and many just want to bury their heads in denial?
Even worse, they ran O'Brien out of State College, and hated that Erickson, Trustees, and Joyner brought in Franklin but now love Franklin and do not give credit for those that enforced New Reforms Paterno refused to be under and violated many Rules and Laws?
If that same thing happened at Pitt, I would still love Pitt, but I wouldn't be talking how great Pitt was to everyone that I came across. I would show a lot more humility.
I think every Penn State Fan has a right to be very proud of how their university put in Reforms and came out of the Scandal a better University and there are Lair Posters I admire every much that disagree with me, I respect them too, just feel PSU did many right things and I have no problem with giving Penn State credit.
Franklin is doing much better in recruiting than Paterno ever did, and under all Laws, regulations, and F Rules, unlike Paterno Shamed Legacy, some PSU Fans just ignore!
What they also ignore is how Pitt had to put up with an ego manic Athletic director that cared more about his Buyouts than finding a Good Solid Coach because few to none wanted to work under Pederson? It is Pitt that had caused there own problems. But at least Pitt avoided Scandals unlike WVU and PSU?
That is also why 409 means so much to them because it puts them at the top of something.
They deserve proud about it and I salute it too, but it is also a Cleaner. and those wins came from Coaches not following all Rules and Laws?
Ironically to me, wouldn't mind if Pitt could brag about 409 but I also would ask myself if our coach had been here for 45 years and only won two national titles, they why did we keep him around so long? But that is just me. I think its makes them look bad. There are many coaches who were around a lot less time and won less games but won more titles.
In fairness to Joe Paterno, I still think Joe got jobbed out of a few NCS Games but the way he broke rules and demanded only he could discipline his players was a PSU Trustees, President, and NCAA problem too, he should have been investigated way back in the 1980s and 1990s and he was given a pass by the Media, NCAA, and Big Ten.
Today, at Penn State, No Coach in Any Sport, is over the President, Trustees, Athletic director, Director of Ethics & Compliance and Athletic Integrity Officer! Franklin was interviewed and approved by all of them!
Joe should have been investigated and fired in 1996 under the Curtis Enis Cover Up and perhaps earlier and certainly later in 1998, 2001, and 2004,with the antics he pulled, but Penn State lacked Institutional control over him.
Penn State wanted that 409 Wins too, and got them, then lost them, and got them back, but at the price of bringing shame to Penn State's Name?
In all Honesty, and upon reflection, no College Football Fans would want a record like that if Disadvantage Children were abused over 40 years, except a few at Penn State CULTists? In the end, even Paterno cried knowing what he did was wrong and his legacy long gone.
I still wish them good luck in 2015 and new dawn and age for Penn State Football. WVU too, and PITT especially!
Good post by the way on Hall of Fame Game Day!
Recruits can see "PITT IS IT" to Play their way into the NFL Pro Hall Of Fame!
I do not mind at all recognizing whenever WVU or Penn State does better than Pitt in College Football or any Sport. I believe competing against one another is good for all, and I respect many fine aspects of all 3 Schools. When they Post Information that I know to be accurate, I salute them. When they challenge aspects they do not like to admit about Pitt, I challenge them. I defend Pitt History and Accomplishments on the Lair without apologies. Moreover, I will not post derogatory information on BWI or Mountaineers Boards out of respect.
The name of the game in any sport is championships and in the last 40 years we have been about even, and overall Pitt has the edge. And that is why penn state and wvu fans try to downplay the past.
I understand that, but i also recognize the WVU just missed having a few more Championships like with Major Harris got hurt in against ND in NCS Title game of the 1980's. As well as, Pitt knocking them out in 2007.
Additionally, to be fair Penn State did have 4 Undefeated Seasons that in my opinion, did not get credit for NCS in 1968-69-74-94, and missed out against Bama in 1979. Still, Pitt also ended up #2 a number of times and missed out on even more.
According to psu fans anything that happened before the 1960's doesn't count because it helps THEIR argument. With wvu it's anything before the 2000's.
The 1980s was a remarkable Decade for Independents like PITT, PSU, WVU, ND, MIAMI, BC, CUSE, FSU, and BYU. They played in many of the 4 and 5 Big Bowls and often against each other, and kept all the Bowl Money. It caused SEC to propose the BCS and Conferences started to invite Independents to join in the 1990s, so that would no longer happen as much. Today, only ND & BYU are Independent and ND is ACC Related!
So where are we today? None of the three teams have really torn it up on the field lately and since 2000 we have all been pretty much even with wvu having the edge.
I agree and they hate pointing that out since WVU has had a New Coach for over 4 years, Penn state 2 years, and Pitt just again this year. I keep telling them we all need to get better and start playing each other again to grow in the ACC, B1G, and Big-12. But even the Penn Staters did not want Pitt in the Big Apple Bowl.
However, I do think Franklin is now in a position to win 9 and 10 games first, Holgrosen may be able to do it with many Players back, and Pitt offense should be pretty good, but again we are breaking in an entire New Coach & Staff? We shall see?
So they attack attendance and anything else that makes them look better. They know they haven't been much better, so attendance is all they can find.
I never saw a Fan win a game? But I have seen many Fans build and support a Program and I salute WVU & PSU for that too. Pitt needs to do more and Pederson Poison remnants is still in the system. Penn State also has many advantages on recruiting with 3000 invited to camps, coaching clinics, budgets, travel, and location.
Of course I would like to win a lot of games and championships, but we don't have that luxury. But I would take Pitt's NFL success over attendance any day of the week.
Although this is your opinion and I respect it, others that hate Pitt should respect it too. Even if they prefer Wins and I compliment and respect them on that too!
The goals for a lot of those kids playing in college is to make it in the NFL and for Pitt all that success does help in recruiting. Aaron Donald is someone that any kid would love to follow. Who expected this much from him?
WVU & PSU certainly have had good players put in the NFL too, but not what Donald did in his last year at Pitt and First Year in the Pros? The Penn State and WVU fans that say that is not important is because they fear Recruits will see they can learn and play at Pitt and prepare for the NFL sooner and better than at Penn State or WVU! This is a fact they cannot refute!
As for psu fans, I understand the pride and school spirit thing. What I don't understand is their constant chest pounding and bragging in the wake of the worst scandal in all of sports. These tragedies are supposed to humble people, but it seems to have just made psu fans even more hard to take. I really don't get it.
I understand it, but they blame everyone else and pray to Paterno when it all happen under the Paterno Years??? Especially the NCAA Rules Lack of Institutional Control, Compliance Violations, and Crimes and Alleged Crimes not just by Sandusky but by their own Players and President, Athletic Director and VP? They cannot accept that Paterno as Paterno even said, was a flawed Man and not a Saint. They know very well, what was exposed and many just want to bury their heads in denial?
Even worse, they ran O'Brien out of State College, and hated that Erickson, Trustees, and Joyner brought in Franklin but now love Franklin and do not give credit for those that enforced New Reforms Paterno refused to be under and violated many Rules and Laws?
If that same thing happened at Pitt, I would still love Pitt, but I wouldn't be talking how great Pitt was to everyone that I came across. I would show a lot more humility.
I think every Penn State Fan has a right to be very proud of how their university put in Reforms and came out of the Scandal a better University and there are Lair Posters I admire every much that disagree with me, I respect them too, just feel PSU did many right things and I have no problem with giving Penn State credit.
Franklin is doing much better in recruiting than Paterno ever did, and under all Laws, regulations, and F Rules, unlike Paterno Shamed Legacy, some PSU Fans just ignore!
What they also ignore is how Pitt had to put up with an ego manic Athletic director that cared more about his Buyouts than finding a Good Solid Coach because few to none wanted to work under Pederson? It is Pitt that had caused there own problems. But at least Pitt avoided Scandals unlike WVU and PSU?
That is also why 409 means so much to them because it puts them at the top of something.
They deserve proud about it and I salute it too, but it is also a Cleaner. and those wins came from Coaches not following all Rules and Laws?
Ironically to me, wouldn't mind if Pitt could brag about 409 but I also would ask myself if our coach had been here for 45 years and only won two national titles, they why did we keep him around so long? But that is just me. I think its makes them look bad. There are many coaches who were around a lot less time and won less games but won more titles.
In fairness to Joe Paterno, I still think Joe got jobbed out of a few NCS Games but the way he broke rules and demanded only he could discipline his players was a PSU Trustees, President, and NCAA problem too, he should have been investigated way back in the 1980s and 1990s and he was given a pass by the Media, NCAA, and Big Ten.
Today, at Penn State, No Coach in Any Sport, is over the President, Trustees, Athletic director, Director of Ethics & Compliance and Athletic Integrity Officer! Franklin was interviewed and approved by all of them!
Joe should have been investigated and fired in 1996 under the Curtis Enis Cover Up and perhaps earlier and certainly later in 1998, 2001, and 2004,with the antics he pulled, but Penn State lacked Institutional control over him.
Penn State wanted that 409 Wins too, and got them, then lost them, and got them back, but at the price of bringing shame to Penn State's Name?
In all Honesty, and upon reflection, no College Football Fans would want a record like that if Disadvantage Children were abused over 40 years, except a few at Penn State CULTists? In the end, even Paterno cried knowing what he did was wrong and his legacy long gone.
I still wish them good luck in 2015 and new dawn and age for Penn State Football. WVU too, and PITT especially!
Good post by the way on Hall of Fame Game Day!
Recruits can see "PITT IS IT" to Play their way into the NFL Pro Hall Of Fame!
Yeah. I'm sure he was smart enough to recognize a cult when he saw one and would have left there in a hurry for fear of being brainwashed or sacrificed or something.
Totally agree. It bothers me too that many PSU fans are still cocky and arrogant in their defense of their school. I understand the loyalty and pride bit, but I am with you. If Pitt went through a similar scandal, I would still love Pitt, but I would be humble and quiet, and hope that the issues were cleared up and go away over a period of time. I would definitely have been embarrassed and appalled that those things happened on my campus, and angry at the admin. They are so defensive when an outsider says anything about it, or PSU in general. Time heals, and people forgive, but they should have just been humble.
Dorsett would've been out after a year at Penn State.
LOL - as this is such a demonstration of being humble as is trolling on a Pitt board. Get over yourself.
I do not dispute you in any way, sure program have sins and mistakes and all look for an edge. Many always want to do the right things but wins make them do somethings no one is proud of and that include Jackie.
Bear Bryant had trouble at previous schools he coached until he got to Bama. Jackie was Bryant Player and by no means a saint and had trouble at A&m and Missy State?
Paterno on the other hand ripped on both and both Programs at times and while ignoring his own mistakes, some can blame others, some can blame the many stupid rules by the NCAA at those times, and some can blame coaches on their staff and contributors.
All sports have some hypocrisy but some Penn State Fans actually believed and knew their program has some warts and problems too, and still pointed at other Programs.
I cannot disagree with you and won't, but hypocrisy comes from how one views it. I respect your views and many Penn State and WVU fans too, very much. They are fair and informative and we can always agree to disagree!
Believe it or not, back then, Pitt and Penn State disliked each other, but it was more game banter. Pitt was just rebuilding and Penn State was established by Paterno's early career od 10+ wins almost every year. Both Programs were rowing but Penn state had the jump on all Eastern Teams with Paterno taking over in 1967 and then breaking the Big Four Agreement by taking 35 Red-shirts Recruits every year while WVU, Cuse and Pitt limited theirs to 10 or less. Joe was very competitive and very good coach too!
Dorsett had Penn State as a Finalists and not a big deal when he went to Pitt. Penn State was loaded too and we all were glad many stayed in Pennsylvania then go to ND, OSU, Oklahoma?
It was only after Pitt won the National Championship that Paterno & his Staff & Athletics turn to trashing Pitt and other Programs and creating favorable publicity that not always true about the Penn State Program?
Some of the Penn State Students, Fans, and Alumni started to fall for it, and really hated that Pitt won a National Title before Paterno and Penn State? the Pitt and WVU rivalry was always more hateful until Penn Staters started to hate Pitt even more over Pitt success!
We all enjoyed playing each other but over time just like OSU-Michigan, Bama-Auburn, USC-UCLA etc etc it grew and even though we no longer play as much, it is still alive with hate.
I like all 3 Programs and want all 3 to go 12-0 every year and hope to play all 3 in a NCS Playoff now. This is my dream, and I want Pitt to win it all, but will accept if WVU & PSU wins too.
I might add it is just a Dream too, right now, Pitt has so much to do! Yet, in 1970s, Eastern Football was just rebuilding and Penn state had the edge because Paterno built a solid program, and Pitt, WVU, and Cuse had to play "Ketchup" and I am not talking about Heinz Field?
Penn State Fans started to hate many Programs back then and many of the worse were from Philly, and Philly Fans often hate their own Teams and boo their own Teams too! They were known as the Boo Birds!
Joe Paterno, in my opinion, was just very competitive and helped caused problems even he regretted, I believe, but he also shamed Penn State name in the end too, so he paid the price of his own misdeeds! At that said, there is no downside in praising what Joe did right too, and that was more than he did wrong, in my opinion.
As stated, Dorsett did consider Penn State and could have gone to any University anywhere, but he chose Pitt!
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NTOP, he is just what I was referring to in my post. His comments on their board and now our board are ridiculous. He calls Dorsett 'stupid', and then makes comments like he does. Amazing !! He is not the only one over there, but you can find them on all boards.
