Dumb realignment hypothetical

[HailToPitt725]

It’s the off-season, so who cares. FireballZ, feel free to insert your “😂” emoji now.

Let’s say the Big Ten expands to 24 teams and are much more proactive than the SEC, eventually poaching away Clemson, Florida State, Miami, and North Carolina from the ACC in addition to adding Notre Dame, Oregon, Stanford, and Washington.

Does the SEC feel the need to match the Big Ten, or even expand to 20? If so, who are they taking? NC State would likely be one of them due to their presence in the Carolinas and their large alumni base. Maybe they add Virginia or Virginia Tech, but the latter’s value is waning nowadays.

After that, who’s left? And- here’s the dumb hypothetical- does the SEC feel at all inclined to expand further north, potentially making Pitt a viable option? We’d bring strong academics, a good football tradition, and proximity to several large markets that SEC schools have alumni living in.

 

[FireballZ]

S-E-C...S-E-C...I love it.

 

[Drew1208]

It’s the off-season, so who cares. FireballZ, feel free to insert your “😂” emoji now.

Let’s say the Big Ten expands to 24 teams and are much more proactive than the SEC, eventually poaching away Clemson, Florida State, Miami, and North Carolina from the ACC in addition to adding Notre Dame, Oregon, Stanford, and Washington.

Does the SEC feel the need to match the Big Ten, or even expand to 20? If so, who are they taking? NC State would likely be one of them due to their presence in the Carolinas and their large alumni base. Maybe they add Virginia or Virginia Tech, but the latter’s value is waning nowadays.

After that, who’s left? And- here’s the dumb hypothetical- does the SEC feel at all inclined to expand further north, potentially making Pitt a viable option? We’d bring strong academics, a good football tradition, and proximity to several large markets that SEC schools have alumni living in.

Much rather be competitive in the 3rd best league where we have a chance to win or be at the top than never being able to compete again in either.

 

[Gep Dawg]

With how the playoffs are set up…with the the Top 6 conference champions getting in and Top 4 getting byes…I personally believe it’s better staying where we are. All that extra revenue doesn’t actually mean all of the teams in the Big 2 will now be better on the field as well. I think football will now start to be more like college basketball where teams outside of the power conferences (alla Butler and FAU) can make runs to and make and win national championship games.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

I believe schools see value in maintaining conferences for basketball and all the non revenue sports. The Big Ten, ACC, SEC etc continuing as there are more or less right now. I think the conferences are reaching limits of revenue gains from poaching who is left out there (at least if the ACC GOR is seen as iron clad to break).

However, I see the top football schools eventually pulling football out of conferences completely and organizing the top tier football league. Maybe of 16 schools. Unfortunately IMO Pitt won’t be included in that.

However, the current P5 schools left that play football (many of which will be programs with pretty decent pedigree) will indeed give football a go as a B league.

Pitt will certainly be welcomed in the B league, though I’m not sure Pitt would find it financially viable. IMO Pitt needs the perception in this region as being “Major league” to be relevant (aka draw attendance and coverage in this region). Recall how we all saw it incredibly dubious for Pitt to continue football in the Big East after the more significant (perceptively) programs were poached by the ACC.

What may ultimately decide Pitt’s football fate: There will almost certainly be legal fights/antitrust threats from the “B League” to force the premier league to include a small number of the B league schools in a Master Playoff. It won’t be equitable (perhaps 6 premier teams and 2 B league)…but that inclusion, that small window into the master playoff, might be enough to make Pitt’s participation in the B league to seem viable.

That probably all sounds far out, but IMO no less so than Pitt being invited to the SEC … unfortunately.

 

[DORT]

One problem with a B league is that the A league will remove most of the talent from the B league every year in the transfer portal.
Interest will fade for the B league eventually.

 

[jivecat]

As long as we are going to put out crazy conferences, if we are part of the "have nots", I'd like a strong regional conference to form with these members.

PITT
BC
CUSE
TEMPLE
ARMY
WVU
CIN
NAVY
Virginia
VA Tech
NC State
Duke
USF
UCF

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

One problem with a B league is that the A league will remove most of the talent from the B league every year in the transfer portal.
Interest will fade for the B league eventually.

I believe similar, regarding the poaching of star players.

However, the alternate is that many of the high rated high school A league kids don’t immediately pan out, so they get over-recruited quickly and thus become good candidates to transfer down to the B league. This Is how we’re increasingly getting players right now in fact. And many of these guys are solid to excellent players, but just got caught up in a numbers games with the blue blood they originally joined. Only 11 guys can be in the field at once (well, maybe Notre Dame is allowed more than that at home 😆).

Still, Narduzzi is correct in pointing out how things are increasingly getting very cynical with this sport. I believe it’s good that more players are able to share in the spoils, but overall it’s become pretty sordid and seems destined only to become more so.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

As long as we are going to put out crazy conferences, if we are part of the "have nots", I'd like a strong regional conference to form with these members.

PITT
BC
CUSE
TEMPLE
ARMY
WVU
CIN
NAVY
Virginia
VA Tech
NC State
Duke
USF
UCF

Give or take a couple, this line up sounds plausible. I might suggest subbing Kentucky or Purdue (2 that I don’t see making the A league cut) for a couple of the others shown here (for example, the service academies don’t thrill me like they do some others). But that would be nipping at the edges.

Problem is that most of these other than WVU (Thanksgiving annual matchup?) may not move the attendance needle much for us unfortunately. Just like they don’t today, unless the game has some meaning in the standings.

This is why I fear we NEED even just a theoretical path into the “major” playoff to give interest to our games. If the B league “champion” ends right there with that, it won’t get any buzz in this region, especially with the evil empire being in the A league. It’ll be akin to winning the NIT or CBI. Patronizing mention at best.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Much rather be competitive in the 3rd best league where we have a chance to win or be at the top than never being able to compete again in either.

Same. We're already there, really. We just don't acknowledge it, because there is this fake hope that we could actually compete with the big boys, even though we haven't in 40+ years.

 

[cashisking884]

I think football will now start to be more like college basketball where teams outside of the power conferences (alla Butler and FAU) can make runs to and make and win national championship games.

Why would that start to happen?

You can do that in college basketball because one player can dominate so much.

The most games in a regular season Lamar Jackson could win is 9.

Is the “Butler” of college football ever going to do better than landing a Lamar Jackson?

 

[Pitt2009]

Pitt has a better chance of landing in the SEC than Big Ten. That being said, unless they expand to 30 teams each we’ll end up in whatever third conference is left standing.

 

[Burgh15]

Pitt has a better chance of landing in the SEC than Big Ten. That being said, unless they expand to 30 teams each we’ll end up in whatever third conference is left standing.

If any of these conferences get to over 20, let alone 30, the game will be completely different. A one or two 30-team league is game over as we know it as that would be a single or two-league sport different than the rest of college football. Even thinking about the original post, 24 teams with very limited playoff sports just doesn't make competitive sense for most teams. It really feels like if the Big 10 wanted to add that many teams, they'd also want to kick out teams not pulling their weight in terms of competitiveness and a drain on economic resources.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Same. We're already there, really. We just don't acknowledge it, because there is this fake hope that we could actually compete with the big boys, even though we haven't in 40+ years.

Without a ‘major league’ association, the continuation of Pitt football might be viable for about 5 years give or take before having to withdraw from the sport due to utter lack of attention, attendance, and subsequent loss of money.

But at least we might be ‘competitive’ in some of those 5 years …

 

[AZULDOS]

Who right now is the best "B" League? If , or when :/, the big name ACC Guys or at least 2-3 of them move "up" what is left of ACC? Is it what is left of the ACC and a few strategic additives be next best? I even think WVU would love an "Old" Big East but it would not be smart of them to move out the Big 12 imho. More stable and exiting enough of a league to still be relevent in the national spotlight, ala TCU. IDK if SEC, Big 12 would not take Pitt there best bet would have to be a make your own schedule independent for max interest. I don't know how hard an ala cart schedule would be but you could make something happen. If not that, and I thought it would have worked in the dark error of Oval Jaynes, move to the MAC. Just the talent level then, but if a dystopic future it would be regionality that works better than people would want to admit. It would "justify" the acceptance of a glorified Columbis Crew 25-30000 compact stadium into the tight spaces instead of believing only a 50000 seat one is needed to be acceptable for "A" league football. Fairly easy roadtrips for the 20000 rain or shine fans. Looking at what is left to combine if others get pillaged this is somewhat a realistic scenario imho. Lol i know some of you will ask if I need drug intervention but if a "Memphis" or similar best of the rest don't make a newer similar perceived older Big East, ironically not too different than ACC with truly 1-2 big dogs that carry it, type conference, not many options. In the Past Big East realistically was Miami/VT with WVU for the Slaton/Smith years. Your looking at Sun belt and USA as possible "regional" fits. Better weather but further travel than MAC in general. A pieced together now Big East would be getting some independents, Academies and the rest of ACC others dont want to maybe have a higher perception for tournament time.

Also asked this I know it comes down to "$" in some way but I don't see why it would not end up saving more money for these "big" leagues than forcing them to "stay". Why can't there be an arrangement particularly with Olympic sports similar to what the I.E. Duquesne and formerly Robert Morris with NEC football conference is. No disrespect but lets be honest it is less scholarship football essentially higher level PSAC football whom are not even the best in d2. But the "bell cows" sport is basketball which is in a mid major most year multiple invite basketball league. They were grandfathered in to have fcs football but without the "YSU" level commitment. There are a "lower" scholarship d1 level conference that is "independent" of NEC, A10 etc. Just a group of regional schools that agree to a lesser scholarship levels acceptable enough to be "D1", it gives you a chance still, but you may have less lottery balls in the machine but you can get into the dance. With all of the bigger conference issues and looming cuts why not be able to regionalize these sports. Let the kids get early season treats to "Florida" etc but make softball/baseball a bus league once the season begins with like minded financial budgeting for these one off sports. This can help keep Title 9 if anything keep I.E. softball fully scholarship but baseball less scholarship and cost to keep things equal. You should be able to save money and overcost to be able to field something. Let those sports "go" and let the schools spread their wings. Again even though they may want to give more scholarships but a D1 league that may agree to 2 scholarships under the 11.7 9 min, which is technically D2 max could make regional conference. Say to the ACC we want ot offer 9.5 scholarships and just play the tri state area etc. Your not running with the big dogs in most cases anyways like the sunny florida or SoCal, Texas teams. Could or would D1 conference allow this? I assume for prestige the ACC most likey included I guess but B10, SEC have enough money to send their teams to Japan for a treat to play ball but can they give the option for realistically are what is becoming "B" conferences or the few that don't have all the extra capital a way to keep sports but justify spending extra capital on the money sports while not really cutting the olympic sports that help enrich student lives. Keep those leagues bus leagues. No expectation of top scholarship amounts and far road trips. Besides early season treats to nice weather in season no weekday flights/long bus rides to Florida etc. Go to class, Drive to Ohio be back early evening to eat on campus and back to your dorm to sleep. Like I said in some of these sports you are not going ot the dance anyways except the same big name billion dollar "franchises" under the guise of college athletics. Is that not what all of these really started as. Atlantic Coast, SouthEast , Pacific, SouthWest etc. Football/Basketball are totally different animals. Bring those other sports back if anything to the regional roots. Ultimately, especially if the tournament expands, that is what will die first or suffer the most. handcuffing "lesser" sports to make these same travels without the reality of generating the money themselves. if about money that has to be cheaper and smarter?

 

[cashisking884]

Who right now is the best "B" League? If , or when :/, the big name ACC Guys or at least 2-3 of them move "up" what is left of ACC? Is it what is left of the ACC and a few strategic additives be next best? I even think WVU would love an "Old" Big East but it would not be smart of them to move out the Big 12 imho. More stable and exiting enough of a league to still be relevent in the national spotlight, ala TCU. IDK if SEC, Big 12 would not take Pitt there best bet would have to be a make your own schedule independent for max interest. I don't know how hard an ala cart schedule would be but you could make something happen. If not that, and I thought it would have worked in the dark error of Oval Jaynes, move to the MAC. Just the talent level then, but if a dystopic future it would be regionality that works better than people would want to admit. It would "justify" the acceptance of a glorified Columbis Crew 25-30000 compact stadium into the tight spaces instead of believing only a 50000 seat one is needed to be acceptable for "A" league football. Fairly easy roadtrips for the 20000 rain or shine fans. Looking at what is left to combine if others get pillaged this is somewhat a realistic scenario imho. Lol i know some of you will ask if I need drug intervention but if a "Memphis" or similar best of the rest don't make a newer similar perceived older Big East, ironically not too different than ACC with truly 1-2 big dogs that carry it, type conference, not many options. In the Past Big East realistically was Miami/VT with WVU for the Slaton/Smith years. Your looking at Sun belt and USA as possible "regional" fits. Better weather but further travel than MAC in general. A pieced together now Big East would be getting some independents, Academies and the rest of ACC others dont want to maybe have a higher perception for tournament time.

Also asked this I know it comes down to "$" in some way but I don't see why it would not end up saving more money for these "big" leagues than forcing them to "stay". Why can't there be an arrangement particularly with Olympic sports similar to what the I.E. Duquesne and formerly Robert Morris with NEC football conference is. No disrespect but lets be honest it is less scholarship football essentially higher level PSAC football whom are not even the best in d2. But the "bell cows" sport is basketball which is in a mid major most year multiple invite basketball league. They were grandfathered in to have fcs football but without the "YSU" level commitment. There are a "lower" scholarship d1 level conference that is "independent" of NEC, A10 etc. Just a group of regional schools that agree to a lesser scholarship levels acceptable enough to be "D1", it gives you a chance still, but you may have less lottery balls in the machine but you can get into the dance. With all of the bigger conference issues and looming cuts why not be able to regionalize these sports. Let the kids get early season treats to "Florida" etc but make softball/baseball a bus league once the season begins with like minded financial budgeting for these one off sports. This can help keep Title 9 if anything keep I.E. softball fully scholarship but baseball less scholarship and cost to keep things equal. You should be able to save money and overcost to be able to field something. Let those sports "go" and let the schools spread their wings. Again even though they may want to give more scholarships but a D1 league that may agree to 2 scholarships under the 11.7 9 min, which is technically D2 max could make regional conference. Say to the ACC we want ot offer 9.5 scholarships and just play the tri state area etc. Your not running with the big dogs in most cases anyways like the sunny florida or SoCal, Texas teams. Could or would D1 conference allow this? I assume for prestige the ACC most likey included I guess but B10, SEC have enough money to send their teams to Japan for a treat to play ball but can they give the option for realistically are what is becoming "B" conferences or the few that don't have all the extra capital a way to keep sports but justify spending extra capital on the money sports while not really cutting the olympic sports that help enrich student lives. Keep those leagues bus leagues. No expectation of top scholarship amounts and far road trips. Besides early season treats to nice weather in season no weekday flights/long bus rides to Florida etc. Go to class, Drive to Ohio be back early evening to eat on campus and back to your dorm to sleep. Like I said in some of these sports you are not going ot the dance anyways except the same big name billion dollar "franchises" under the guise of college athletics. Is that not what all of these really started as. Atlantic Coast, SouthEast , Pacific, SouthWest etc. Football/Basketball are totally different animals. Bring those other sports back if anything to the regional roots. Ultimately, especially if the tournament expands, that is what will die first or suffer the most. handcuffing "lesser" sports to make these same travels without the reality of generating the money themselves. if about money that has to be cheaper and smarter?

Hit the space bar a few more times.

 

[Drew1208]

Hit the space bar a few more times.

Get some paragraph in there too

 

[HailtoPitt]

Conferences aren't likely to add teams that will decrease per team revenue.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Conferences aren't likely to add teams that will decrease per team revenue.

So in a hypothetical Big Ten expansion where they add all the valuable ACC teams, would they SEC just stay put? Would they be fine with “only” having 16 teams versus 20 or 24?

 

[HailtoPitt]

So in a hypothetical Big Ten expansion where they add all the valuable ACC teams, would they SEC just stay put? Would they be fine with “only” having 16 teams versus 20 or 24?

Yes, I think so.

 

[HOF Coach]

With how the playoffs are set up…with the the Top 6 conference champions getting in and Top 4 getting byes…I personally believe it’s better staying where we are. All that extra revenue doesn’t actually mean all of the teams in the Big 2 will now be better on the field as well. I think football will now start to be more like college basketball where teams outside of the power conferences (alla Butler and FAU) can make runs to and make and win national championship games.

You're famous!

 

[Pitt79]

S-E-C...S-E-C...I love it.

How many conference championships would we win, or would it just be fun to you going 4-8 every year as a designated doormat?

 

[Gep Dawg]

You're famous!

View embedded media

My 5 minutes of fame! I'm not sure what I wrote is that crazy…he must be a big SEC fan. I think the NCAAT has proven the larger the tournament gets and the more accessible it is to more teams the LESS likely it is to be dominated completely by a handful of blue blood programs. Look at college basketball before the 70s and it was a handful of teams who won it all every year just like College football now because only 4 teams play in the playoffs every year and its always the same 4-5 teams! There was more parity when the polls decided!

 

[Conemaugh]

As long as we are going to put out crazy conferences, if we are part of the "have nots",

So in a hypothetical Big Ten expansion where they add all the valuable ACC teams, would they SEC just stay put? Would they be fine with “only” having 16 teams versus 20 or 24?

Let's be honest. The Big Ten reacts to the SEC...... not the other way around. If the SEC decided to constrict by kicking out Vanderbilt, Northwestern would be gone a few years later.

 

[joeydavid]

If any of these conferences get to over 20, let alone 30, the game will be completely different. A one or two 30-team league is game over as we know it as that would be a single or two-league sport different than the rest of college football. Even thinking about the original post, 24 teams with very limited playoff sports just doesn't make competitive sense for most teams. It really feels like if the Big 10 wanted to add that many teams, they'd also want to kick out teams not pulling their weight in terms of competitiveness and a drain on economic resources.

So they need to drop over half of the league 🤔...

 

[Ray-Ray]

Who right now is the best "B" League? If , or when :/, the big name ACC Guys or at least 2-3 of them move "up" what is left of ACC? Is it what is left of the ACC and a few strategic additives be next best? I even think WVU would love an "Old" Big East but it would not be smart of them to move out the Big 12 imho. More stable and exiting enough of a league to still be relevent in the national spotlight, ala TCU. IDK if SEC, Big 12 would not take Pitt there best bet would have to be a make your own schedule independent for max interest. I don't know how hard an ala cart schedule would be but you could make something happen. If not that, and I thought it would have worked in the dark error of Oval Jaynes, move to the MAC. Just the talent level then, but if a dystopic future it would be regionality that works better than people would want to admit. It would "justify" the acceptance of a glorified Columbis Crew 25-30000 compact stadium into the tight spaces instead of believing only a 50000 seat one is needed to be acceptable for "A" league football. Fairly easy roadtrips for the 20000 rain or shine fans. Looking at what is left to combine if others get pillaged this is somewhat a realistic scenario imho. Lol i know some of you will ask if I need drug intervention but if a "Memphis" or similar best of the rest don't make a newer similar perceived older Big East, ironically not too different than ACC with truly 1-2 big dogs that carry it, type conference, not many options. In the Past Big East realistically was Miami/VT with WVU for the Slaton/Smith years. Your looking at Sun belt and USA as possible "regional" fits. Better weather but further travel than MAC in general. A pieced together now Big East would be getting some independents, Academies and the rest of ACC others dont want to maybe have a higher perception for tournament time.

Also asked this I know it comes down to "$" in some way but I don't see why it would not end up saving more money for these "big" leagues than forcing them to "stay". Why can't there be an arrangement particularly with Olympic sports similar to what the I.E. Duquesne and formerly Robert Morris with NEC football conference is. No disrespect but lets be honest it is less scholarship football essentially higher level PSAC football whom are not even the best in d2. But the "bell cows" sport is basketball which is in a mid major most year multiple invite basketball league. They were grandfathered in to have fcs football but without the "YSU" level commitment. There are a "lower" scholarship d1 level conference that is "independent" of NEC, A10 etc. Just a group of regional schools that agree to a lesser scholarship levels acceptable enough to be "D1", it gives you a chance still, but you may have less lottery balls in the machine but you can get into the dance. With all of the bigger conference issues and looming cuts why not be able to regionalize these sports. Let the kids get early season treats to "Florida" etc but make softball/baseball a bus league once the season begins with like minded financial budgeting for these one off sports. This can help keep Title 9 if anything keep I.E. softball fully scholarship but baseball less scholarship and cost to keep things equal. You should be able to save money and overcost to be able to field something. Let those sports "go" and let the schools spread their wings. Again even though they may want to give more scholarships but a D1 league that may agree to 2 scholarships under the 11.7 9 min, which is technically D2 max could make regional conference. Say to the ACC we want ot offer 9.5 scholarships and just play the tri state area etc. Your not running with the big dogs in most cases anyways like the sunny florida or SoCal, Texas teams. Could or would D1 conference allow this? I assume for prestige the ACC most likey included I guess but B10, SEC have enough money to send their teams to Japan for a treat to play ball but can they give the option for realistically are what is becoming "B" conferences or the few that don't have all the extra capital a way to keep sports but justify spending extra capital on the money sports while not really cutting the olympic sports that help enrich student lives. Keep those leagues bus leagues. No expectation of top scholarship amounts and far road trips. Besides early season treats to nice weather in season no weekday flights/long bus rides to Florida etc. Go to class, Drive to Ohio be back early evening to eat on campus and back to your dorm to sleep. Like I said in some of these sports you are not going ot the dance anyways except the same big name billion dollar "franchises" under the guise of college athletics. Is that not what all of these really started as. Atlantic Coast, SouthEast , Pacific, SouthWest etc. Football/Basketball are totally different animals. Bring those other sports back if anything to the regional roots. Ultimately, especially if the tournament expands, that is what will die first or suffer the most. handcuffing "lesser" sports to make these same travels without the reality of generating the money themselves. if about money that has to be cheaper and smarter?

CliffNotes please.