Duzz lost the team?

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

The program was worse in 92 than 96.

Heck, buyout the road games at tOSU & Notre Dame, schedule 2 cupcakes and the 96 team would have qualified for a bowl game.

Duzz is head and shoulders above Walt. He has a better resume and better wins.

1990: 3-7-1
1991: 6-5
1992: 3-9
1993: 3-8
1994: 3-8
1995: 2-9
1996: 4-7
--------------
Insert Walt
--------------
1997: 6-6
1998: 2-9
1999: 5-6
2000: 7-5
2001: 7-5
2002: 9-4
2003: 8-5
2004: 8-4


I don't even like counting a new coach's record until his third year, because that's when the roster becomes predominantly his players. Give Narduzzi all the credit in the world for 8-5 in 2015 and 2016, but the fact remains that A) He did not recruit most of those contributors, and B) He's the reason we didn't win at least 10 in 2016. We went 8-5 that season in spite of Narduzzi. A few tweaks, and we might have been 11-1.

 

[TD_6082]

Maybe so….but no FB program is going to survive at ANY division 1 school where winning is subordinated to any number of other “ nice yo have” cultural attributes. This is a business and you’re paying a HC $5.7 M per year to run a successful program. Let me know the next time Lyke steps on a dais before s large group of Pitt supporters and tells them winning isn’t important but open you wallet and give me your cash because the players love the coach who just cratered the most recent season. You are whistling in the wind.

If winning meant that much to the boosters, the roster would be chock full of high end talent.

Majors/Sherrill was a result of boosters going all in for football. When Pitt shoved Mike Gottfried's head through the guillotine, that was the symbolic end to Pitt's dive into trying to play big boy football.

Clearly Pitt has no desire to outspend elite schools for roster talent.

 

[TD_6082]

1990: 3-7-1
1991: 6-5
1992: 3-9
1993: 3-8
1994: 3-8
1995: 2-9
1996: 4-7
--------------
Insert Walt
--------------
1997: 6-6
1998: 2-9
1999: 5-6
2000: 7-5
2001: 7-5
2002: 9-4
2003: 8-5
2004: 8-4


I don't even like counting a new coach's record until his third year, because that's when the roster becomes predominantly his players. Give Narduzzi all the credit in the world for 8-5 in 2015 and 2016, but the fact remains that A) He did not recruit most of those contributors, and B) He's the reason we didn't win at least 10 in 2016. We went 8-5 that season in spite of Narduzzi. A few tweaks, and we might have been 11-1.

You left out Walt's 10 win season and his outright conference title.

You're giving me a lot of "a few tweaks". & "he's the reason this wasn't better" type of hypotheticals.

It is what it is. Duzz is better than Walt. Even produced a superior QB than the QB guru.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

You left out Walt's 10 win season and his outright conference title.

You're giving me a lot of "a few tweaks". & "he's the reason this wasn't better" type of hypotheticals.

It is what it is. Duzz is better than Walt. Even produced a superior QB than the QB guru.

Yeah, Narduzzi "produced" him. Sure. Canada recruited him, and all Narduzzi did was promise him a good OC hire when UNC came sniffing around. He hired Shawn Watson. He then got backed into a situation where it was either bring back the guy he wanted to fire or Pickett was going to Notre Dame. He had about as much to do with Pickett's actual development as I did. Other than almost screwing his entire career over because someone's helmet fell off.

 

[Islanderpanther]

If winning meant that much to the boosters, the roster would be chock full of high end talent.

Majors/Sherrill was a result of boosters going all in for football. When Pitt shoved Mike Gottfried's head through the guillotine, that was the symbolic end to Pitt's dive into trying to play big boy football.

Clearly Pitt has no desire to outspend elite schools for roster talent.

At the end of the day, there will always be another school who will meet your price so don’t kid yourself in thinking that you will prevail simply on the basis of what you are willing to spend. Ultimately the HC has to sell what he’s peddling.

 

[Islanderpanther]

He's won the conference and is pretty easily the best coach in the last 40 years. Let's not act like he's only here because he's Mr. Rodgers.

I get that but they’re people trying to sell Narduzzi exclusively on the merits of things other than winning. Best coach in 40 years is a meaningless accolade in Pitt’s case, by the way. And this year’s team may be the worst coached Pitt squad I have ever seen and some of the worst personnel decisions by a Pitt HC I have ever seen.

 

[TD_6082]

At the end of the day, there will always be another school who will meet your price so don’t kid yourself in thinking that you will prevail simply on the basis of what you are willing to spend. Ultimately the HC has to sell what he’s peddling.

Some truth to that. But it's also painfully obvious Pitt isn't spending what they should be acquiring talent.

Which side of the ACC GOR a school comes down on is a tell tale sign if want to be a football school or not. Schools serious about football despise it while Pitt views it as some saving grace. Tell you all you need to know.

 

[Islanderpanther]

Some truth to that. But it's also painfully obvious Pitt isn't spending what they should be acquiring talent.

Which side of the ACC GOR a school comes down on is a tell tale sign if want to be a football school or not. Schools serious about football despise it while Pitt views it as some saving grace. Tell you all you need to know.

I get your point, although I would suggest that some of the schools assailing the GOR have an inflated view of their prospects in the future conference realignment lottery. If I read your post correctly, like you my reservations about Pitt’s FB program in this uncertain environment have more to do though with their commitment level than whether they have in the necessary assets to succeed. Pitt has a lot more inherent advantages than quite a few of the members of that gaggle of 7 whose FB traditions aren’t even in the same universe as that of Pitt’s. Outside of FSU and Miami, the rest of those schools have never done squat.

 

[bobfree]

What do you suppose that is going to prove? That a 2-6 team losing to the #4 team in the country somehow proves you right?

The same thing one 5th year senior tweeting love you boss man proves.

 

[pittmeister]

1990: 3-7-1
1991: 6-5
1992: 3-9
1993: 3-8
1994: 3-8
1995: 2-9
1996: 4-7
--------------
Insert Walt
--------------
1997: 6-6
1998: 2-9
1999: 5-6
2000: 7-5
2001: 7-5
2002: 9-4
2003: 8-5
2004: 8-4


I don't even like counting a new coach's record until his third year, because that's when the roster becomes predominantly his players. Give Narduzzi all the credit in the world for 8-5 in 2015 and 2016, but the fact remains that A) He did not recruit most of those contributors, and B) He's the reason we didn't win at least 10 in 2016. We went 8-5 that season in spite of Narduzzi. A few tweaks, and we might have been 11-1.

Based on the support he received, you make some good points about Walt. As a pure coach, I believe he’s not given enough credit. He was not a great recruiter, but he understood football and that offense wins games.

Harris did not receive nearly the support Narduzzi has received in his time at Pitt.

 

[TD_6082]

Based on the support he received, you make some good points about Walt. As a pure coach, I believe is not given enough credit. He was not a great recruiter, but he understood football and that offense wins games.

Harris did not receive nearly the support Narduzzi has received in his time at Pitt.

Offense, defense,and special teams win games. All are important and every coach making a paycheck understands that.

I don't know about support. Harris ushered in brand spanking new facilities & a huge rocketman marketing push.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

He was not a great recruiter, but he understood football and that offense wins games.

Yet his best offenses never ranked as high as his best defenses. Rhoades had 2 top 10 defenses and I believe Coyer might have had 1 too or very close to it. I'm not sure PITT ever had a top 25 offense under Walt. One thing about Walt was he used to be accused of being a "smoke and mirrors" coach as if that is some kind of criticism. Yet, in reality he never finished a season where he threw the ball more then he ran it. He was a pro-style coach who knew that if he was ever going to take the next step they had to be able to run the ball. His attempt at the spread was to help the run game not the pass game.

Also - Walt like Duzz wasn't beating down the door of the other side of the ball when it came to management.

 

[NCPitt]

You know it's 2023 not 1923 right? What you're saying may be true in the idealized state of college athletics, but nobody can look at the state of college athletics over the past 20 years and think it's anything but a big business driven by Ws.

I'm just glad that Pitt agrees with me.

 

[lilspainishflea]

I get that but they’re people trying to sell Narduzzi exclusively on the merits of things other than winning. Best coach in 40 years is a meaningless accolade in Pitt’s case, by the way. And this year’s team may be the worst coached Pitt squad I have ever seen and some of the worst personnel decisions by a Pitt HC I have ever seen.

How many P5 schools have won an outright conference title in the last 20 years? I think in the ACC it's 5 but only 3 unique winners in the last 10. Big Ten is 5. It's a significant accomplishment.

A lot of teams would love to have the single conference championship, conference win rate, and multiple upsets of top teams the way Duzz has done. If you polled this place 10 years ago every single person, every one, would say that a single outright conference title would be a win.

Yes, this year is ugly and who knows what the future will bring but to diminish his record "because it's Pitt" doesn't make sense. Go root for another program if that's how you feel.

 

[NCPitt]

Yeah, Narduzzi "produced" him. Sure. Canada recruited him, and all Narduzzi did was promise him a good OC hire when UNC came sniffing around. He hired Shawn Watson. He then got backed into a situation where it was either bring back the guy he wanted to fire or Pickett was going to Notre Dame. He had about as much to do with Pickett's actual development as I did. Other than almost screwing his entire career over because someone's helmet fell off.

Funny. A coach has a player for 5 years and yet the coach gets no credit for it. Haters are amazing in their rationalizations.

 

[Saboteur II]

The players an the player’s families have always loved duzz he might be a dick to the average fan. But the team loves him. So the haters can all bl**!me

I’ll just ignore.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

The same thing one 5th year senior tweeting love you boss man proves.

I thought the tweets, including from the same 5th year senior, is what had everybody butthurt about losing the team.

 

[ThePanthers]

I think Peak had the most level headed view (paraphrase)

Winning 11 games doesn’t mean you going to continue winning 11 games from that point on and winning 2,3,4 doesn’t mean you’ll stay on that trajectory either.

Pitt has led the ACC in NFL draft picks for 3 years now.. I think it’s taking its toll but Narduzzi has done a lot to elevate the program

Amen.

 

[Ski11585]

I'm just glad that Pitt agrees with me.

Not sure they do. If they did, they’d be vocal against conference realignment and the fact that money and big business is driving college athletics. Or they would be vocal for stricter more meaningful punishments for NCAA infractions. Or they’d drop to DII.

They want to have it both ways and end up taking no meaningful stance.

 

[TD_6082]

Yeah, Narduzzi "produced" him. Sure. Canada recruited him, and all Narduzzi did was promise him a good OC hire when UNC came sniffing around. He hired Shawn Watson. He then got backed into a situation where it was either bring back the guy he wanted to fire or Pickett was going to Notre Dame. He had about as much to do with Pickett's actual development as I did. Other than almost screwing his entire career over because someone's helmet fell off.

Narduzzi was the head coaxh. That whole blame/credit thing swings both ways and they both ultimately fall at the feet of the HC.

 

[NCPitt]

Not sure they do. If they did, they’d be vocal against conference realignment and the fact that money and big business is driving college athletics. Or they would be vocal for stricter more meaningful punishments for NCAA infractions. Or they’d drop to DII.

They want to have it both ways and end up taking no meaningful stance.

They hire coaches who want to develop young men. They don't hire coaches who cheat or push to win at any cost. That's all I ask.

Big money has nothing to do with my point. If you want to compete at the highest levels, then the actions you cite are necessary. But they have no relationship with way you compete.

 

[BreakingPitt]

pitt football ? whoa ...... what is this lady doing ?

 

[Ski11585]

They hire coaches who want to develop young men. They don't hire coaches who cheat or push to win at any cost. That's all I ask.

Big money has nothing to do with my point. If you want to compete at the highest levels, then the actions you cite are necessary. But they have no relationship with way you compete.

When you say "coaches who cheat," are you talking about big cheating, like Michigan, or run of the mill cheating and pushing boundaries? Because I think tampering to recruit Horton counts as cheating. And if you want to draw a hard line, guys like Dior or Dayon Hayes should have been booted off the team as soon as their respective DV charges hit.

All coaches cheat and push the envelope when as much is as stake as with D1 athletics. It just depends on how much you're willing to call cost of doing business.

 

[NCPitt]

When you say "coaches who cheat," are you talking about big cheating, like Michigan, or run of the mill cheating and pushing boundaries? Because I think tampering to recruit Horton counts as cheating. And if you want to draw a hard line, guys like Dior or Dayon Hayes should have been booted off the team as soon as their respective DV charges hit.

All coaches cheat and push the envelope when as much is as stake as with D1 athletics. It just depends on how much you're willing to call cost of doing business.

Urban Meyer had 35 players arrested in 5 years. Lincoln Riley bought Jordan Addison.

I know nothing about Horton's situation. I have no problem with allowing the justice system to play out. That's actually part of turning kids into adults - showing patience while letting the system work.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Not in college.

Yes , in college too
Tweets don’t win

 

[PittPharm2002]

College is about turning adolescents into adults. That is just as true in football as it is in academics. Yes, it is important to strive to win but a "win-at-all-costs" attitude is not appropriate for student-athletes.

Ya think that’s why Narduzzi got a big raise and extension?
Or was it the wins ?

Buddy - start buying tickets and actually attend a game , Doke Sr

 

[PittPharm2002]

Urban Meyer had 35 players arrested in 5 years. Lincoln Riley bought Jordan Addison.

I know nothing about Horton's situation. I have no problem with allowing the justice system to play out. That's actually part of turning kids into adults - showing patience while letting the system work.

Urban Meyer is a HOF coach who won everywhere he’s been
Duzz isn’t