https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/04/18/european-super-league/
Elite European soccer clubs are forming a Super League despite major opposition
- Thread starter Pitt79
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I bet Joe a 1 year premium subscription that the domestic leagues DON'T kick out their super-clubs. Like the EPL is really going to boot Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, and Liverpool.
I agree with that, I doubt they kick them out too. Personally I won't like this, they are going from a March Madness model, to a CFP model, where it's THE SAME TEAMS EVERY YEAR. I'm a mid major fan (Olympiacos), I like watching my team upset the likes of Man U or Arsenal, even if they don't get to the round of 16, Now Europeans can have their own Bama vs. Clemson playoffs year after year after year, NO THANKS.
Frankly, I love it. I kind of liken the current leagues in each country somewhat like the NCAA for football. Yes, every once in a while a Northwestern team will make noise in the Big Ten but you mostly know it will be Ohio State, Michigan, Wisconsin at the top. Same with the SEC and other top conferences. Imagine if the NCAA pulled the top 15 teams and place them in their own separate league. Each weekend the games could be Alabama-Ohio State, Clemson-Texas, etc. Sure passionate Pitt fans would be angry and maybe even some Alabama fans because Auburn might not Be part of the super league and they couldn’t embarrass them every year. But casual college football fans would think it is awesome.
And quite frankly it would be even more awesome if the new league completely ignored NCAA rules and ran the league i the way they saw fit.
So, yeah I am a better than average European soccer fan and don’t mind seeing Swansea play Derby in some FA cup game sometime, but honestly when ManCity plays ManU, I am always watching. If Real is going against Liverpool in Champions League you bet your arse I am watching.
So, if there is a super league where every few weeks marquee matches are being played you bet I am watching even if I have to pay for a streaming service.
Here’s the problem I have with it.
the reason why the EPL is soooooo good is that every match matters partly because of the race for the top 4. Now there is no longer a race for the top 4. So big 6 clubs will have plenty of games that mean nothing once they fall out of the title race. Yesterday’s Liverpool vs Leeds game won’t matter anymore and matches like that will be happening all the time now.
it would never happen and it goes against history, but history is out the door now. My SMF type solution would be to have a top 4 playoff every year to determine league champ. This will keep most matches meaningful through April and it will even give hope to clubs who would never have a chance of ever finishing first. Clubs like Leicester, West Ham, Everton, New Castle (if they ever get their shit together), Villa, etc can squeak into a 4th place spot and have a chance to win their Premiership.
My thing is, I want to watch MY FAVORITE TEAMS over the top teams, I'd watch any Pitt game even against YSU or Delaware over tOSU vs Bama, In European soccer, I couldn't give a crap about Liverpool vs Barcelona, I'd rather watch Olympiacos vs ANYBODY, and dumping the current UEFA CL in favor of this Super League means turning European Futbol into the CFP and it's the SAME FEW TEAMS every year! Clemson vs Bama forever! The current Champions League is more like March Madness than the CFP, meaning WAY MORE INTERESTING.
Not sure about that, casual fans are more likely to watch maybe their own school than a super league matchup. Unless you are talking about people who like "matchups" more than rooting interest? People who don't have a favorite and just watch random games, If there was a CFB Super League with titanic matchups every weekend, I'd still just watch Pitt on Saturday and the Steelers on Sunday and not much else, because I couldn't care less about Alabama-Ohio State, Clemson-Texas, etc.
Umm, there rarely is a race for the top four. Once in a great while an interloper like Leicester comes in but it is typically the same clubs.
Hmmm, I guess that is why nobody watches the Super Bowl but the fans of the two teamS playing. 🤪
Plus that is only once a year, not every week, you can't compare the Super Bowl to a regular season game 2 months before between the same two teams.
How do you measure an “elite” club? It should be by what they do on the pitch. This “super” league doesn’t do that.
Tottenham? They haven’t won an EPL title since 1961. That’s 60 years ago. They haven’t won an FA cup since 1991. 30 years. Those are the two big domestic trophies. European trophies? They won the equivalent of the Champions League in 1963 and the equivalent of the Europa League twice, last in 2008.
Let’s compare that to Barcelona. Barcelona has won La Liga 26 times, with the last being in 2019. They just won the Copa del Rey, the Spanish equivalent of the FA Cup, for the 31st time, and they have won the Champions League 5 times and the equivalent of the Europa League 4 times.
Tottenham is not one of the elite clubs in Europe, either historically or now. They aren’t even in the race to win the Premier League and the almost certainly will not qualify for either European competition next year.
Their only qualification for this Super League is money. They have it.
What this league does is guarantees the richest teams — not the elite teams — a place in the competition with no chance of being relegated out of it. The great thing about European football always has been that it rewards excellence and punishes poor play. Leicester City can have a great year and win the Premier League as they did a few years back. Poor teams are relegated to the second division and have to work their way back by winning. Teams I remember watching in the Premier League in the 1980s and 1990s, like Nottingham Forest, Middlesbrough, Bolton Wanderers and Queens Park Rangers, now compete in lower divisions. If Nutting ran a soccer club in the UK, it probably would have been relegated twice by now and he would not be profiting from his mismanagement.
The same is true of the Italian teams. Juventus has been elite. AC Milan and Inter-Milan used to be elite, but haven’t been among the elite European teams for a decade. But, they are along with Juventus the richest Italian teams.
Right now, only two of the six Premier League teams are in qualifying positions for the Champions League next season. Two more are in the Europa League qualifying positions. Two more would be watching on television and bleeding lost revenues. This is a money grab, nothing else. It isn’t so fans will see the best teams play each other; it is so the richest teams will always have both greedy hands in the cash register.
Tottenham? They haven’t won an EPL title since 1961. That’s 60 years ago. They haven’t won an FA cup since 1991. 30 years. Those are the two big domestic trophies. European trophies? They won the equivalent of the Champions League in 1963 and the equivalent of the Europa League twice, last in 2008.
Let’s compare that to Barcelona. Barcelona has won La Liga 26 times, with the last being in 2019. They just won the Copa del Rey, the Spanish equivalent of the FA Cup, for the 31st time, and they have won the Champions League 5 times and the equivalent of the Europa League 4 times.
Tottenham is not one of the elite clubs in Europe, either historically or now. They aren’t even in the race to win the Premier League and the almost certainly will not qualify for either European competition next year.
Their only qualification for this Super League is money. They have it.
What this league does is guarantees the richest teams — not the elite teams — a place in the competition with no chance of being relegated out of it. The great thing about European football always has been that it rewards excellence and punishes poor play. Leicester City can have a great year and win the Premier League as they did a few years back. Poor teams are relegated to the second division and have to work their way back by winning. Teams I remember watching in the Premier League in the 1980s and 1990s, like Nottingham Forest, Middlesbrough, Bolton Wanderers and Queens Park Rangers, now compete in lower divisions. If Nutting ran a soccer club in the UK, it probably would have been relegated twice by now and he would not be profiting from his mismanagement.
The same is true of the Italian teams. Juventus has been elite. AC Milan and Inter-Milan used to be elite, but haven’t been among the elite European teams for a decade. But, they are along with Juventus the richest Italian teams.
Right now, only two of the six Premier League teams are in qualifying positions for the Champions League next season. Two more are in the Europa League qualifying positions. Two more would be watching on television and bleeding lost revenues. This is a money grab, nothing else. It isn’t so fans will see the best teams play each other; it is so the richest teams will always have both greedy hands in the cash register.
It's an Americanization, where money talks, like the Pirates can suck forever and never be relegated out
even in the MLS in the USA, no relegations because you basically BUY your spot in the top division forever, and Tottenham won't even have to get better to stay in this league. About this league, is the plan to stay in their domestic leagues and do this on the side?
You missed my point. I agree that 99% of the time the top 4 is comprised of 4 of these 6 teams. Leicester broke through once, and Blackburn or someone did 30 years ago. But the point is, there’s always a race and it keeps all the matches relevant up until championship Sunday. And there’s been plenty of seasons where 2 of these 6 teams did not finish top 6. Every. Single. One. Of. Them. And especially Arsenal and Spurs. Lol.
It appears to have had a brief but event-filled life. I think Chelsea saw the light when Chelsea fans prevented their bus from getting into the training grounds. That was after Liverpool fans went to Leeds for the away match (even though fans were barred from the stadium) to yell at the team. And Pep Guardiola came out strongly against it. In Barcelona, where the team is owned by more than 120,000 share-holding Catalans, they just had an election. But Cules were threatening Laporte with a recall if Barcelona went along. Real Madrid is also fan owned.
I don’t think any of these teams, especially the ones with American owners, expected the tidal wave of opposition.
This reminds me a little of the time right after the Glazer family bought Man U and held a press conference to announce the team needed a new government-financed stadium. If they didn’t get it, the hint was, the team might be forced to move. It almost resulted in the first beheadings in England in centuries.
The Glazers had no idea they couldn’t blackmail Manchester like they did Tampa. They quickly discovered that they could move and take their players with them. But, the name would stay at Old Trafford, as would the EPL berth. The Glazers could start out with their team in the 7th division and in seven years, with luck, they could be in the EPL. But, most of the players wouldn’t be going with them on that journey. Some had contracts which had opt-out clauses if MU didn’t qualify for European play; most had buy-out clauses where they could sign with other teams for a designated transfer fee.
Man U has a new stadium. The Glazers paid for it.
It’s over. All 6 Premier League teams have formally withdrawn. Arsenal and Liverpool even apologized to their fans. The entire Liverpool team had publicly posted its opposition. Pep Guardiola had publicly blasted it. Barcelona and Atletico Madrid were ready to pull out. Bayern Munich and PSG, two of the teams set to be announced later as members, publicly said No.
In Germany, by the way, they have an interesting law to govern teams going for the big money grab, threatening to move, etc. it is called the 50% +1 law. On any major action like this one, the Bayern fans would have to have been polled and would have had to approve it.
I guess if he really want to, Florentine Perez can have his Real Madrid Fascistas play the 3 Italian teams every Wednesday in the Summer. With no television and no one caring.
An interesting side note: Perez called a new election at Real Madrid a couple of weeks back and ended up as the only candidate, so he won again. To be president of Real Madrid, you have to personally assume as guarantor many of the club’s major debts. Obviously, no other owner (like Barcelona it is owned by more than 100,000 shareholders) was willing to do that since the pandemic greatly increased the debt. I wonder if Perez was willing because he saw this league as a way out of debt.
In Germany, by the way, they have an interesting law to govern teams going for the big money grab, threatening to move, etc. it is called the 50% +1 law. On any major action like this one, the Bayern fans would have to have been polled and would have had to approve it.
I guess if he really want to, Florentine Perez can have his Real Madrid Fascistas play the 3 Italian teams every Wednesday in the Summer. With no television and no one caring.
An interesting side note: Perez called a new election at Real Madrid a couple of weeks back and ended up as the only candidate, so he won again. To be president of Real Madrid, you have to personally assume as guarantor many of the club’s major debts. Obviously, no other owner (like Barcelona it is owned by more than 100,000 shareholders) was willing to do that since the pandemic greatly increased the debt. I wonder if Perez was willing because he saw this league as a way out of debt.
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The only bad thing about this falling apart so fast, which was entirely predictable to anyone who actually knows anything about European soccer, is that you will now claim that you weren't actually wrong so you don't need to pay up for getting this entirely wrong.
I said I wasn't sure this league would actually happen so I'm not surprised it fell through. But my entire point was that if these clubs went out and actually did this, their domestic leagues would not have kicked them out. Now, we'll never know. Lucky for you.
You keep telling yourself this, and if you convince yourself that will make one person who believes it.
Oh, they got kicked out? That was the bet. Stupid is no way to go though life.
This league will eventually happen. It is as inevitable as the earth going around the sun. Absolutely Europeans want as much money as possible. Fans have no choice in what happens and when the club owners actually realize that the Super League will take place.
I once loved the tradition of living in Johnstown and only being able to watch, I don’t know, forty or so Pirate games per year. So you treasured every game and listened to the others on the radio and when you played whiffle ball you practiced your Stargell bat windmill or your Richie Hebner shirt adjustment at the shoulder because those guys would always be there.
Guess what? That disappeared and ain’t never coming back and baseball makes lots of money and lots of people watch it and so on and so on.
I-N-E-V-I-T-A-B-L-E
I once loved the tradition of living in Johnstown and only being able to watch, I don’t know, forty or so Pirate games per year. So you treasured every game and listened to the others on the radio and when you played whiffle ball you practiced your Stargell bat windmill or your Richie Hebner shirt adjustment at the shoulder because those guys would always be there.
Guess what? That disappeared and ain’t never coming back and baseball makes lots of money and lots of people watch it and so on and so on.
I-N-E-V-I-T-A-B-L-E
Wow 40 Pirate games! I've watched 40 less than that total since 1992
As for this League. it's America ruining sports, like America ruins everything else.
Yes 1992 was a benchmark for pirate fandom. The new league is not an Americanization. It’s a globalization.Wow 40 Pirate games! I've watched 40 less than that total since 1992
As for this League. it's America ruining sports, like America ruins everything else.
It's an AMERICANIZATION, CLEARLY, it's applying NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL style sports league structure into Europe.
1992, Pirates had lost Game 7 to Atlanta, let all the free agents walk, and I realized, I AM NOT A BASEBALL FAN AT ALL, I'm a Pirates fan above a fan of the sport itself, so if the Pirates aren't trying, I really can't sit through these dull games.
It’s not inevitable because Europe is not the United States. Here, there is no political will to control the leagues. If there were, the next time the Pirates demanded a new stadium at taxpayer expense or else they would move, the government could invoke eminent domain and take control of the franchise. But, there is no will for that.
It’s different in Europe. Germany, Holland and at least three other countries already have laws providing soccer supporters with 50%+1 of the voting power to approve major changes. They now are talking about enacting the same law in Britain. When the Conservative Party supports that kind of change you know things are different.
Just look at what happened when Arsenal and Manchester United wanted new stadiums to be built at government expense. The concept went nowhere. Both ended up building the stadiums at their own expense. Not only that, they weren’t allowed to demolish any housing until they had first found acceptable (to the tenants) temporary housing for every displaced tenant. Arsenal built the new stadium where the old parking was, found replacement housing for everyone who would be displaced by where it wanted to put the new parking, only then was allowed to tear down those homes and put new parking there, then when the new stadium was finished was required to tear down the old stadium, then had to build housing on its site for everyone who had been displaced and was living in temporary housing at the same rent they had previously paid for old housing with a cost of living adjustment.
Arsenal never threatened to move because it knew it was a hollow threat. If they found a new city to take them, they would have to start in Division 7.
Right now, most of the Americans who own teams there are tolerated. Barely. Frank McCourt, who owned the Dodgers but was forced out by MLB and a divorce, bought Olympique Marseilles, probably the most storied team in France. He has tried American tactics there. It hasn’t worked. He is the most hated man in SW France. And, the team has floundered.
It’s different in Europe. Germany, Holland and at least three other countries already have laws providing soccer supporters with 50%+1 of the voting power to approve major changes. They now are talking about enacting the same law in Britain. When the Conservative Party supports that kind of change you know things are different.
Just look at what happened when Arsenal and Manchester United wanted new stadiums to be built at government expense. The concept went nowhere. Both ended up building the stadiums at their own expense. Not only that, they weren’t allowed to demolish any housing until they had first found acceptable (to the tenants) temporary housing for every displaced tenant. Arsenal built the new stadium where the old parking was, found replacement housing for everyone who would be displaced by where it wanted to put the new parking, only then was allowed to tear down those homes and put new parking there, then when the new stadium was finished was required to tear down the old stadium, then had to build housing on its site for everyone who had been displaced and was living in temporary housing at the same rent they had previously paid for old housing with a cost of living adjustment.
Arsenal never threatened to move because it knew it was a hollow threat. If they found a new city to take them, they would have to start in Division 7.
Right now, most of the Americans who own teams there are tolerated. Barely. Frank McCourt, who owned the Dodgers but was forced out by MLB and a divorce, bought Olympique Marseilles, probably the most storied team in France. He has tried American tactics there. It hasn’t worked. He is the most hated man in SW France. And, the team has floundered.
It is pretty clear that some people here simply do not understand the differences between sports in Europe versus sports in America. It is also pretty clear that some of the Americans who have bought these big European clubs, especially in England, don't understand the difference either.
Or at least they didn't understand, until about two days ago. Now they do.
Yeah, you know when I travel to Europe what do I see. Oh damn, its a McDonalds. Oh wow, its a Starbucks. Oh my God, can you believe that they have KFC all across the continent. Yeah, yeah, Europe is super special and every team in England is owned by 100% born and bred English ownership. They aren't and neither are other clubs in the rest of Europe.
Yes, at one point the rule for travel in every European country was that the men and women never dressed in anything but near dressy clothing and no tourist should ever wear shorts or a t-shirt. Just do a freaking YouTube video of any european country and there are shorts and tshirts everywhere.
But yes, so many Americans love to fantasize that European sports are pure and without stain.
Wake up folks. the Super League will happen within the next two to three years. Cause guess what, those politicians who make the laws have probably already received numerous donations today from folks who are interested in their support for changing those pesky rules.
Lord are people that clueless about what goes on in other countries? Just follow along boys and girls and you will see pretty much the same type of government and government influencers in every country, including China.
I'll take that bet just like I took the one that SMF won't admit he lost. Be another easy win for me.
Do you really not understand the differences in the structures of the European soccer leagues versus the American system of sports?
And any American restaurant in Europe IS THE WORST PLACE TO EAT, except England of course
English food is crap.
Well the idiots that run Barcelona are doubling down. They are determined to make it happen. Apparently they can’t manage their books right and need this more than anything.
And I would bet you again that if this league ever actually happens, the domestic leagues will NOT kick the teams out. I'm talking where the rubber meets the road. If it gets to the point where there's Super League games on the schedule in 6 months, those teams will still be playing in their domestic leagues.
However, at this point, I dont see the English team going forward with this. The fans have spoken. What I could potentially see (but wouldn't bet on it) is a league combining Spain, France, Italy, and Portugal though that probably wouldn't have enough juice.
What I'd like to see is an involvement with US teams. I don't think you'd ever get English or German teams but maybe you could convince Spanish, Italian, French, etc teams to leave to form a true world league
Euro Division
Barca
RM
AM
ACM
Juventus
Roma
Inter
PSG
Lyon
Marseille
Ajax
Olympiakos (or Panathinaikos)
CSKA
Rangers (or Celtic or both but they probably wouldn't leave the SPL even though it sucks)
Fenerbahce
World Divison
RBNY or NYCFC
LA Galaxy or LAFC
Chicago
Inter Miami
Seattle
Atlanta
Club America
Chivas Guadalajara
River Plate
Boca Juniors
Throw in 5 more from China, Japan, India, Australia, and South Africa
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I don't think it will ever happen, nor do I want it to, but Greece is my area of expertise
, Olympiacos has like 5 times more titles than Panathainaikos and has them like 16-2 this century.
Who do they plan to play with? England, Germany and France are out, those are the top leagues, did the Italians bail or not?
It is hard to believe that a team that prints money like they do could have their finances all screwed up, and yet apparently they do.
MLS should try to bring in Barca, RM, Atletico and others. Im only half-joking. They'd probably never go for it but Barca and La Liga covet the US market maybe more than any other.
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