FB vs BB Focus

[9nationalchampionships]

I think we can all agree that the university is becoming more focused on FB as it is such a huge revenue opportunity for the school.

I also think the Rivals boards prove that there is more interest among fans towards FB as the posts are at least 20 / 1 FB related and yes I posted this on the FB side.

I grew up in more a BB area but love both sports.


Comments?

 

[geeman2001]

Why not be great in both????

I always regret it seems a "vs" thing for many fans, as well as the assumption that it has to be one or another. Just like with assumed paradox between doing great in sports and having a great academic university.

That said, if indeed it had to be one or the other ... quite frankly, Pitt is set up to be a "hoops" school. It has a great facility for hoops, on campus (not that I think that's necessarily critical for football, but it's a symbolic difference for sure), and it has participated in "hoops-first" conferences for the last 30 years. Hoops SHOULD be on top. And of course, it was. However, sadly, insanely, Pitt has let that flounder the past 3 years. It's on a dangerous precipice right now.

For those to say this is because "the focus is now on football", I have to dispute. Pitt has NOT thrown in behind football by any means. Pitt merely conducted a professional job search for its coach, which by itself looked like a major upgrade in commitment compared to past train wreck efforts. Yet, it's really just SOP. Narduzzi looks like a solid hire, but at the end of the day he is also a coordinator, and Pitt barely nudged up its payroll for him and his staff. He has potential but he is no 'splash hire.' Dixon, on the other hand, is a star. Maybe a fading one, but a proven commodity. He SHOULD have this program at its peak by now. And still might get there, with the proper attention from the administration. So IF indeed it has to make a choice, that's really where Pitt AD should double down ... fix hoops before it's too late.

But, after saying all that, I'll repeat ... Pitt could damn well be great in both.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

The Renaissance University !

Academia

Culture

Athletics








There are only a few schools that do well in both FB & BB


Stanford

OSU

Michigan

UCLA



Who am I missing?

 

[sherepower]

The Renaissance University !

Academia

Culture

Athletics








There are only a few schools that do well in both FB & BB


Stanford

OSU

Michigan

UCLA



Who am I missing?

Florida-Oklahoma-Texas-Arizona-Oklahoma st-WVU-Louisville-ND-LSU and others. There are others who have had both teams ranked in the top 20 in the same year. In recent memory. I think we had both teams ranked in the top 20 in 2009 if my memory serves me correct.

 

[geeman2001]

Wisconsin. MSU

 

[H2P-2007]

I have always seen Pitt as a football school, we have just had more recent high-level success in basketball. I was at Pitt in 2003 and 2004 when we were top 25 in both - that is the goal imo.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I agree with geeman there is no reason on earth Pitt cannot be good - indeed very good - in both football and men's basketball (and women's basketball for that matter). It is a false choice that so many seem so eager to make.

Nothing is more embarrassing to a normal thinking Pitt Panthers fan than to have other fans of one sport sniping at fans of the other sport or openly rooting against that team. People can say whatever they like, but that does not happen at other schools. North Carolina basketball fans do not root against North Carolina football. Florida State football fans do not root against Florida State basketball. Pitt, on the other hand...

Embarrassing.

 

[eastcoasthoops]

I agree with geeman there is no reason on earth Pitt cannot be good - indeed very good - in both football and men's basketball (and women's basketball for that matter). It is a false choice that so many seem so eager to make.

Nothing is more embarrassing to a normal thinking Pitt Panthers fan than to have other fans of one sport sniping at fans of the other sport or openly rooting against that team. People can say whatever they like, but that does not happen at other schools. North Carolina basketball fans do not root against North Carolina football. Florida State football fans do not root against Florida State basketball. Pitt, on the other hand...

Embarrassing.

So true!

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Doc,

I have not witnessed this but take your word for it. Crazy

I agree with geeman there is no reason on earth Pitt cannot be good - indeed very good - in both football and men's basketball (and women's basketball for that matter). It is a false choice that so many seem so eager to make.

Nothing is more embarrassing to a normal thinking Pitt Panthers fan than to have other fans of one sport sniping at fans of the other sport or openly rooting against that team. People can say whatever they like, but that does not happen at other schools. North Carolina basketball fans do not root against North Carolina football. Florida State football fans do not root against Florida State basketball. Pitt, on the other hand...

Embarrassing.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

That said, if Pitt were forced to make a Sophie's choice, which is a premise I vehemently reject, there is no question the answer is football and it is not close.

The Petersen Events Center may be on campus but that is literally the only advantage basketball has a football.

The local quality of prep football is significantly better than the local call quality of prep basketball. The Panthers' football tradition far exceeds their basketball tradition. Fan interest is far greater in Pitt football than it is Pitt basketball.

Let's just take the past 30 years and compare the football athletes that have come here versus the men's basketball athletes. Not close. Do I need to name them?

And that's not even talking about the Tony Dorsett, Dan Marino, Bill Fralic, Mark May, Chris Doleman, Mike Ditka, or Hugh Greens of the world.

Who are the Pitt basketball equivalents of Shady McCoy? Darrelle Revis? Curtis Martin? Larry Fitzgerald? Aaron Donald? Sean Gilbert? Mark Stepnoski? Reuben Brown?

And this is during an extended down period for Pitt football and the halcyon days for Pitt basketball.

Not even debatable.

The only reason why Pitt ended up at a basketball-centric conference in the first place is because it's primary football rival could not get along with the other kids in the sandbox. Had Joe Paterno not been so incredibly greedy, Pitt would've joined Penn State in an all sports conference before it ever even thought about joining the Big East and later the ACC.

In fact, once it was announced that Pitt and Syracuse were leaving the Big East, it became very clear by the comments of the other administrators in the league that we were always regarded by the true basketball schools in that league as a necessary evil that they always had to tolerate but never really embraced.

The BE formed in 1979. Pitt joined the league in 1982 – just three years after its inception. And yet, we were always regarded as a lowly "expansion team" - in the same vein as Miami, Virginia tech and West Virginia; necessary football evils. In fact, they view this as a lesser addition than those schools because we weren't as successful in football.

 

[Pghfan]

I love both sports. Nationally speaking, I believe your casual basketball fan has respect for Pitt hoops. Not as a premiere program but as a good program. Football, your casual fan has very little, if any, respect for Pitt foitball , we are seen as average at best, true definition of mediocrity. Last time we were seen as a good program, Dan Marino was a college student. Look at it this way. Pick a P5 program. If that team plays Pitt hoops at home and beats them. First, is their attendance increased for this ooc game and second, is theirfm fan base excited about beating Pitt. Now do the same for same program with Pitt football. Is that fan excited to play Pitt and are they excited they beat Pitt. I think you'd find those answers are different. Again, I love both but believe we are more respected for hoops than football.

 

[thebadby2]

The Renaissance University !

Academia

Culture

Athletics








There are only a few schools that do well in both FB & BB


Stanford

OSU

Michigan

UCLA



Who am I missing?

Michigan State for one.

 

[NTOP]

That said, if Pitt were forced to make a Sophie's choice, which is a premise I vehemently reject, there is no question the answer is football and it is not close.

The Petersen Events Center may be on campus but that is literally the only advantage basketball has a football.

The local quality of prep football is significantly better than the local call quality of prep basketball. The Panthers' football tradition far exceeds their basketball tradition. Fan interest is far greater in Pitt football than it is Pitt basketball.

Let's just take the past 30 years and compare the football athletes that have come here versus the men's basketball athletes. Not close. Do I need to name them?

And that's not even talking about the Tony Dorsett, Dan Marino, Bill Fralic, Mark May, Chris Doleman, Mike Ditka, or Hugh Greens of the world.

Who are the Pitt basketball equivalents of Shady McCoy? Darrelle Revis? Curtis Martin? Larry Fitzgerald? Aaron Donald? Sean Gilbert? Mark Stepnoski? Reuben Brown?

And this is during an extended down period for Pitt football and the halcyon days for Pitt basketball.

Not even debatable.

The only reason why Pitt ended up at a basketball-centric conference in the first place is because it's primary football rival could not get along with the other kids in the sandbox. Had Joe Paterno not been so incredibly greedy, Pitt would've joined Penn State in an all sports conference before it ever even thought about joining the Big East and later the ACC.

In fact, once it was announced that Pitt and Syracuse were leaving the Big East, it became very clear by the comments of the other administrators in the league that we were always regarded by the true basketball schools in that league as a necessary evil that they always had to tolerate but never really embraced.

The BE formed in 1979. Pitt joined the league in 1982 – just three years after its inception. And yet, we were always regarded as a lowly "expansion team" - in the same vein as Miami, Virginia tech and West Virginia; necessary football evils. In fact, they view this as a lesser addition than those schools because we weren't as successful in football.

Doc....those last comments are simply wrong. The BE pursued Pitt for the TV exposure, after shunning psu. FB wasn't even in the works back then...the only FB-playing schools were the Cuse & BC. BE FB began over 10 years later. Pitt was quite competitive in the E8 conference in the late 1970's. We were Top 5 in FB at the time (Sherrill), but they chose Pitt to expand the footprint. We played the Cuse in FB every year, BC frequently, so natural rivalries existed, but FB wasn't discussed.....at least not at the conference level. The CYO schools were just p*ssed when two top hoops schools bolted. Jealousy, plain & simple, BE relevance was shredded.

 

[geeman2001]

The one and only reason I've ever questioned Pitt giving up Pitt Stadium and leasing somebody else's, is not where it is located, but the loss of independence.

Heinz Field won't last forever. And there's no guarantee the Steelers stay in the city forever either. The stadium already is falling behind the new palaces of other NFL teams. A few thousand new seats and an extra jumbo tron is nice but inadequate.

Maybe 10-15 years, the place might need to go (or the Steelers will go, as in out of the county ). What does Pitt do then? We don't own Heinz. Buying it could be folly (or impossible). The city/county may prefer to knock it down, so continued leasing might not be an option. Building a new one is a laughable prospect (money and land).

That alone suggests Basketball is Pitt's more reliable destiny. ... again, if needing to choose one over another.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Doc....those last comments are simply wrong. The BE pursued Pitt for the TV exposure, after shunning psu. FB wasn't even in the works back then...the only FB-playing schools were the Cuse & BC. BE FB began over 10 years later. Pitt was quite competitive in the E8 conference in the late 1970's. We were Top 5 in FB at the time (Sherrill), but they chose Pitt to expand the footprint. We played the Cuse in FB every year, BC frequently, so natural rivalries existed, but FB wasn't discussed.....at least not at the conference level. The CYO schools were just p*ssed when two top hoops schools bolted. Jealousy, plain & simple, BE relevance was shredded.

I think you misunderstood my point. I was not (intentionally) implying that there was a Big East football conference way back in 1982. I am well aware of that league's history in all sports. I also know that the football side of conference did not start until the 90s when Miami joined the conference.

What I am saying is that the primary motivation for the Big East accepting Pitt 1982 was to checkmate Joe Paterno and his proposed all-sports conference that, according to Paterno himself, would've included the following teams:
Penn State
Pitt
West Virginia
Syracuse
Boston College
Temple
Rutgers
Army
Navy

If you believe Paterno – which I am loathe to do on any matter – it may have also included Maryland. However, it is important to note that no Maryland official has ever corroborated that claim.

That is why the BE accepted Pitt in 1982. It had nothing to do with expansion, it was all about protection. I understand that Pitt had walked away from those discussions a year or so earlier but there was no law preventing Paterno from regrouping and trying again… And again… And again. Eventually, as either his terms softened or Pitt's negotiating stance weakened, he would have prevailed and the the people in Providence knew that. Their fear was that if Pitt were to join forces with Penn State, Boston College and Syracuse would've also defected out of necessity.

Conversely, Dave Gavitt and Mike Tranghese also knew that if they could convince Pitt to join the Big East, that would permanently deep six Paterno's plan, thereby setting the stage for the Big East to blossom into the monster of a basketball conference it ultimately became. I will always believe that the addition of Pitt set the stage for the mammoth growth and that we were never properly acknowledged in that regard.

Pitt was a necessary evil, not a valued partner. We were always seen by the original members of the conference in the same way they perceived Miami, West Virginia and Virginia Tech. They did not like or respect any of us but they held their nose and dealt with it so the schools like Seton Hall in Providence could keep their seats at the big table.

A number of insiders and key decision-makers from that time have flat out admitted as much in the past decade or so.

They did not like or respect any of us but they held their nose and dealt with it so the schools like Seton Hall in Providence could maintain their seats at the big table.

The BE's acceptance of Pitt had next to nothing to do with how well we fared against Duquesne in the 1979 Eastern 8 tournament at the Civic Arena.

 

[NTOP]

The one and only reason I've ever questioned Pitt giving up Pitt Stadium and leasing somebody else's, is not where it is located, but the loss of independence.

Heinz Field won't last forever. And there's no guarantee the Steelers stay in the city forever either. The stadium already is falling behind the new palaces of other NFL teams. A few thousand new seats and an extra jumbo tron is nice but inadequate.

Maybe 10-15 years, the place might need to go (or the Steelers will go, as in out of the county ). What does Pitt do then? We don't own Heinz. Buying it could be folly (or impossible). The city/county may prefer to knock it down, so continued leasing might not be an option. Building a new one is a laughable prospect (money and land).

That alone suggests Basketball is Pitt's more reliable destiny. ... again, if needing to choose one over another.

That was my big fear, too. Junior Steelers....which hasn't happened, but we are irretrievably tied to their fate. FB has more risk, but higher $$$ upside

I think you misunderstood my point. I was not (intentionally) implying that there was a Big East football conference way back in 1982. I am well aware of that league's history in all sports. I also know that the football side of conference did not start until the 90s when Miami joined the conference.

What I am saying is that the primary motivation for the Big East accepting Pitt 1982 was to checkmate Joe Paterno and his proposed all-sports conference that, according to Paterno himself, would've included the following teams:
Penn State
Pitt
West Virginia
Syracuse
Boston College
Temple
Rutgers
Army
Navy

If you believe Paterno – which I am loathe to do on any matter – it may have also included Maryland. However, it is important to note that no Maryland official has ever corroborated that claim.

That is why the BE accepted Pitt in 1982. It had nothing to do with expansion, it was all about protection. I understand that Pitt had walked away from those discussions a year or so earlier but there was no law preventing Paterno from regrouping and trying again… And again… And again. Eventually, as either his terms softened or Pitt's negotiating stance weakened, he would have prevailed and the the people in Providence knew that. Their fear was that if Pitt were to join forces with Penn State, Boston College and Syracuse would've also defected out of necessity.

Conversely, Dave Gavitt and Mike Tranghese also knew that if they could convince Pitt to join the Big East, that would permanently deep six Paterno's plan, thereby setting the stage for the Big East to blossom into the monster of a basketball conference it ultimately became. I will always believe that the addition of Pitt set the stage for the mammoth growth and that we were never properly acknowledged in that regard.

Pitt was a necessary evil, not a valued partner. We were always seen by the original members of the conference in the same way they perceived Miami, West Virginia and Virginia Tech. They did not like or respect any of us but they held their nose and dealt with it so the schools like Seton Hall in Providence could keep their seats at the big table.

A number of insiders and key decision-makers from that time have flat out admitted as much in the past decade or so.

They did not like or respect any of us but they held their nose and dealt with it so the schools like Seton Hall in Providence could maintain their seats at the big table.

The BE's acceptance of Pitt had next to nothing to do with how well we fared against Duquesne in the 1979 Eastern 8 tournament at the Civic Arena.

Pitt was ASKED to join the BE....because of the additional TV market and a good, not great BB history. JoePa p*ssed off E8 AD's when he put psu's resignation letter under the door at an E8 meeting. Thought that the BE would welcome him & fund BB in Sappy Valley, then coached by Dick Harter. Gavitt & Co. didn't want anything to do with Paterno. Pitt was a natural fit...city school with good academics, Top 20 TV market, actual hotels & restaurants and an Admin equally fed up with Paterno's crapola. I got much of this from an hour-long conversation with a guy who was a BE head coach when that stuff went down. Every poster on this board knows this guy..... That conversation was about 25 years ago.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

All of that is absolutely right. I know all of those stories too. However it does nothing to dispute my point.

Had Paterno not been so unreasonable in his demands - demanding that schools keep 100% of their bowl revs, TV revs, gate, etc. - Pitt would have spent the past three decades in a Northeastern based all-sports conference not named the Big East.

Because he was a twat, and frankly because our administration at the time was incapable of reading the changing landscape, we instead ended up as a "Midwestern outlier" in a Northeastern Catholic basketball league. Consequently, we are now in a Southern based hoops league.

Men's basketball is Pitt's second most important sport and it always will be. Don't confuse administrative incompetence with institutional priority.

 

[Pghfan]

Don't confuse administrative incompetence with institutional priority.

Great line.

 

[NTOP]

All of that is absolutely right. I know all of those stories too. However it does nothing to dispute my point.

Had Paterno not been so unreasonable in his demands - demanding that schools keep 100% of their bowl revs, TV revs, gate, etc. - Pitt would have spent the past three decades in a Northeastern based all-sports conference not named the Big East.

Because he was a twat, and frankly because our administration at the time was incapable of reading the changing landscape, we instead ended up as a "Midwestern outlier" in a Northeastern Catholic basketball league. Consequently, we are now in a Southern based hoops league.

Men's basketball is Pitt's second most important sport and it always will be. Don't confuse administrative incompetence with institutional priority.

Well, the ONLY good move I can recall Bozik making was to accept the BE invite. It must have been delivered in the A.M., as post-lunch sobriety was rare. The "thought" was that Pitt FB would NEVER retreat from that 1981 level. That was obvious by the total lack of investment in Pitt Stadium during the 1980's and 1990's. They cashed some nice Bowl checks from 1973-89, with no conference sharing....but did nothing.
That all-sports conference, if structured fairly, would have been OK, but if you look at the Cuse, B.C, Rutgers & Temple.....can you see them as strong programs today?? Not me. The Cuse collapsed after D-Mac left. The ACC is as good as we could get, given the B10 decision to just make psu the eastern punching bag.

 

[geeman2001]

Don't get me wrong above, I think football SHOULD be paramount. It's the region's passion. It's been proven a currency machine if the program would make the adequate upfront commitment. As far as the conference, it's not the "biggest" of big time but it's big time enough. A NC can be won out of the the ACC. That would legitimize it to yinzers who embrace only winners, but winners that are 'major league'.

Winning football would be a gold mine for the whole university, But winning has to come first, and Pitt can't or won't realize it.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Florida-Oklahoma-Texas-Arizona-Oklahoma st-WVU-Louisville-ND-LSU and others. There are others who have had both teams ranked in the top 20 in the same year. In recent memory. I think we had both teams ranked in the top 20 in 2009 if my memory serves me correct.

Evidently, you missed the academia comment when you referenced WVU and LSU.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I have to admit, there definitely is a weird fraction of the hoop or football factions that cause jealousy and almost derision towards the other. All I had to do is post "HOOP SCHOOL" on the football boards, and people would go into apoplectic shock with their reactions. And some known football only posters would bait the basketball posters after losses. Conversely, there are a lot of basketball only posters that really have no time for people who do not worship the program and Jamie Dixon and especially when they offer critique.

It is really funny and trust me, I have enjoyed preying on both factions for trolling purposes. Yes, I admit it, and you know what, you (yinz who are one or the other) deserve it.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Well, the ONLY good move I can recall Bozik making was to accept the BE invite. It must have been delivered in the A.M., as post-lunch sobriety was rare. The "thought" was that Pitt FB would NEVER retreat from that 1981 level. That was obvious by the total lack of investment in Pitt Stadium during the 1980's and 1990's. They cashed some nice Bowl checks from 1973-89, with no conference sharing....but did nothing.
That all-sports conference, if structured fairly, would have been OK, but if you look at the Cuse, B.C, Rutgers & Temple.....can you see them as strong programs today?? Not me. The Cuse collapsed after D-Mac left. The ACC is as good as we could get, given the B10 decision to just make psu the eastern punching bag.

I would have liked to see Paterno not be an ass and an all sport eastern conference built while Eastern football was strong. It would have been formidable at the time, and would have provided the foundation to maybe have helped the traditional eastern powers stay more relevant.

But, I tend to agree that it would not have held up. Too late to the game, and these programs did not have the strong institutional drive to be football powerhouses like a lot of the southern and mid western schools, especially in light of the demographics of the players changing to where southern talent increased proportionately to eastern/northern talent decreasing..

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

When was this? Early 80's? At the time, no one realized what college football was going to become and also its TV appeal. But let's remember, that was also the beginning of ESPN, and ESPN made the Big East. Because not everyone had cable like now, ESPN was mostly an option to urban areas. ESPN and the Big East basically grew up with each other. Make no mistake, that is why Pitt appealed to the Big East over say a PSU or WVU.

Football wise, if the ALL Sports Conference would be less focused on schools like Army and Navy, and looked more towards Miami, FSU and Ga Tech, and also bringing in Notre Dame in some form, maybe it would have worked long term. We see Maryland could have been had.

But...oh well. It was a good and grandiose idea, but of course the Italian Dictator had to have it all his way.............

 

[Bradlib Zannamaker]

Maybe 10-15 years, the place might need to go (or the Steelers will go, as in out of the county ). What does Pitt do then?

So you are basing your fear of Pitt not having an adequate stadium on the chance that the Pittsburgh Steelers pack up and move to the EU? You are concerned that one of the top 3 NFL teams with the most die-hard fans is going to leave the city? I think you can relax. If the Steelers find that in 15 years, Pittsburgh is no longer a viable home for whatever reason, Pittsbugh (the city and the Unversity) are probably done too, bc the city is gone.

 

[Harve74]

I think you misunderstood my point. I was not (intentionally) implying that there was a Big East football conference way back in 1982. I am well aware of that league's history in all sports. I also know that the football side of conference did not start until the 90s when Miami joined the conference.

What I am saying is that the primary motivation for the Big East accepting Pitt 1982 was to checkmate Joe Paterno and his proposed all-sports conference that, according to Paterno himself, would've included the following teams:
Penn State
Pitt
West Virginia
Syracuse
Boston College
Temple
Rutgers
Army
Navy

If you believe Paterno – which I am loathe to do on any matter – it may have also included Maryland. However, it is important to note that no Maryland official has ever corroborated that claim.

That is why the BE accepted Pitt in 1982. It had nothing to do with expansion, it was all about protection. I understand that Pitt had walked away from those discussions a year or so earlier but there was no law preventing Paterno from regrouping and trying again… And again… And again. Eventually, as either his terms softened or Pitt's negotiating stance weakened, he would have prevailed and the the people in Providence knew that. Their fear was that if Pitt were to join forces with Penn State, Boston College and Syracuse would've also defected out of necessity.

Conversely, Dave Gavitt and Mike Tranghese also knew that if they could convince Pitt to join the Big East, that would permanently deep six Paterno's plan, thereby setting the stage for the Big East to blossom into the monster of a basketball conference it ultimately became. I will always believe that the addition of Pitt set the stage for the mammoth growth and that we were never properly acknowledged in that regard.

Pitt was a necessary evil, not a valued partner. We were always seen by the original members of the conference in the same way they perceived Miami, West Virginia and Virginia Tech. They did not like or respect any of us but they held their nose and dealt with it so the schools like Seton Hall in Providence could keep their seats at the big table.

A number of insiders and key decision-makers from that time have flat out admitted as much in the past decade or so.

They did not like or respect any of us but they held their nose and dealt with it so the schools like Seton Hall in Providence could maintain their seats at the big table.

The BE's acceptance of Pitt had next to nothing to do with how well we fared against Duquesne in the 1979 Eastern 8 tournament at the Civic Arena.

Your points are correct. Pitt was purely a lever against PSU forcing BC and Cuse into his East Indies Conference dreams. I would really only disagree about one factor. The basketball-only schools in the BE didn't diss us QUITE as much as you say. They actually bent over backwards and let Pitt, Cuse and BC drag them into expanding into a football conference and eventually into the unwieldy 16-team hybrid that was doomed to fracture.

They let the football schools have a disproportionate amount of influence, probably because the economics of college sports changed. TV Football contract payments came to dwarf basketball revenues and the landscape was transformed.

Once Miami and VaTech (and BC, but they were no longer really relevant) were seduced to leave, the BE was basically doomed as a football conference. They MIGHT have survived if they could have convinced Notre Dane to join fully, but there just wasn't enough star power in the remainng FB schools. I have always suspected the Providence Mafia's inaction on choosing relevant expansion targets was actually working to sew the seeds of dissolving the conference, as eventually happened. I mean, seriously proposing Villanova as a D-1 FB school?

They have their basketball only conference, even if it's a step down from the BE heyday and Cuse, the Ville and Pitt are in a good place. UConn is the only original school that is in jeopardy of becoming irrelevant. Cincy and WVU are not as well-situated but WVU is still in the P5 and they and USF were newcomers anyway.

 

[geeman2001]

So you are basing your fear of Pitt not having an adequate stadium on the chance that the Pittsburgh Steelers pack up and move to the EU? You are concerned that one of the top 3 NFL teams with the most die-hard fans is going to leave the city? I think you can relax. If the Steelers find that in 15 years, Pittsburgh is no longer a viable home for whatever reason, Pittsbugh (the city and the Unversity) are probably done too, bc the city is gone.

COUNTY. As in Washington County or Butler County. Not country. Though, Washington County (aka West Virginia Heights) is like a third world country in some pockets.

But with the southern beltway still with the green light to be completed and the need to attract a major commercial magnet to entice development around it, a Steelers mega complex (co-funded by the state and county) is definitely not out of the question.

Steelers fans are not attracted to the magic of the north side or city limits. They are attracted to (1) team success and (2) accessible parking for tailgating. They'd LOVE if the Steelers moved to something like that. They'd drive anywhere, especially knowing there would be acres of flat parking for them and easy access/departure.

Pitt fans (and especially students) whine about a 10 minute bus ride now. We'd never go for something like that (not that we'd be invited anyway).

Im not saying it's a probabilty. The city would fight desperately to keep them (though more with rhetoric and political obstruction rather than realistic counter-alternatives). The Rooneys will be savvy in playing all choices against each other. But it is certainly not a crazy concept.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

COUNTY. As in Washington County or Butler County. Not country. Though, Washington County (aka West Virginia Heights) is like a third world country in some pockets.

But with the southern beltway still with the green light to be completed and the need to attract a major commercial magnet to entice development around it, a Steelers mega complex (co-funded by the state and county) is definitely not out of the question.

Steelers fans are not attracted to the magic of the north side or city limits. They are attracted to (1) team success and (2) accessible parking for tailgating. They'd LOVE if the Steelers moved to something like that. They'd drive anywhere, especially knowing there would be acres of flat parking for them and easy access/departure.

Pitt fans (and especially students) whine about a 10 minute bus ride now. We'd never go for something like that (not that we'd be invited anyway).

Im not saying it's a probabilty. The city would fight desperately to keep them (though more with rhetoric and political obstruction rather than realistic counter-alternatives). The Rooneys will be savvy in playing all choices against each other. But it is certainly not a crazy concept.

Not saying this will happen. But if it would, wouldn't that be good for Pitt? Heinz can be reconfigured strictly for Pitt football. A showcase. Win Win.

 

[Pghfan]

Too much investment in the north shore yo let the steelers leave the area.. Washington county is for county fairs and trolley museums, not NFL venues.

 

[geeman2001]

Not saying this will happen. But if it would, wouldn't that be good for Pitt? Heinz can be reconfigured strictly for Pitt football. A showcase. Win Win.

You might think. But possible snags:
1. Doubt the current owner (stadium authority) would continue to run Heinz as-is, let alone perform major adjustments, just for Pitt. Pitt might need to buy it to be permitted to do anything to it. And given we're told what a pauper Pitt is (giant endowment notwithstanding), could be impossible.

2. Pitt may even decide it would buy it, but the city/county may prefer to tear it down for alternative development. Casino expansion? Hotel(s)? "Pittsburgh Eye?" Who knows. That place is a big footprint of valuable property that gets relatively little usage now, and even less if the Steelers left (and certainly would lose iconic status).

 

[geeman2001]

Too much investment in the north shore yo let the steelers leave the area.. Washington county is for county fairs and trolley museums, not NFL venues.

Well, I said the city would definitely fight desperately, including (especially) lobbying against another county in Harrisburg, plus whatever legal ties are in the current lease. The NS investment you cite would surely factor in to the argument.

But, it's not like PNC and casino (plus Stage ae, Science Center, and other clubs) aren't already there, and wouldn't remain. The NS is successfully becoming a 24/7 12 month attraction and the stadium actually sits empty much of the time. After the initial shock wore off, maybe the city / county would actually prefer to open up that big piece of prime land (with its own subway stop) for development. The latter is another reason I don't think it's viable for Pitt to stay in Heinz if the Steelers left, even if Pitt would want to. The city /county would likely be eager to demolish it.

As for Wash cty, yep, damn right it has that perception of small-time. Which it would hunger to throw over. This new highway could be the venue to help do so, but it would need a huge magnet to spur it. No bigger in the region than the Steelers. And remember since the highway is a turnpike road, the state would also want to spur it's usage. You'd think the state wouldn't seek to sabotage the city of Pittsburgh to do so, but there's no love lost between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Well, I said the city would definitely fight desperately, including (especially) lobbying against another county in Harrisburg, plus whatever legal ties are in the current lease. The NS investment you cite would surely factor in to the argument.

But, it's not like PNC and casino (plus Stage ae, Science Center, and other clubs) aren't already there, and wouldn't remain. The NS is successfully becoming a 24/7 12 month attraction and the stadium actually sits empty much of the time. After the initial shock wore off, maybe the city / county would actually prefer to open up that big piece of prime land (with its own subway stop) for development. The latter is another reason I don't think it's viable for Pitt to stay in Heinz if the Steelers left, even if Pitt would want to. The city /county would likely be eager to demolish it.

As for Wash cty, yep, damn right it has that perception of small-time. Which it would hunger to throw over. This new highway could be the venue to help do so, but it would need a huge magnet to spur it. No bigger in the region than the Steelers. And remember since the highway is a turnpike road, the state would also want to spur it's usage. You'd think the state wouldn't seek to sabotage the city of Pittsburgh to do so, but there's no love lost between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg.

When the Steelers start making plans for a new stadium in the next 10 years or so, they will, no doubt PREFER to stay in the city but I would have to imagine neighboring counties with lots of available land and road access (Washington, Butler) would love to give them a sweetheart stadium deal that Allegheny County can't. This is the recent trend with the Braves moving out of Atlanta and the 49ers moving 90 minutes away to Santa Clara.

The Steelers would probably just use the Wash/Butler deals as leverage to get what they want from Allegheny County and PROBABLY will build the new stadium on the North Side, but its not a guarantee. At some point, a deal from a neighboring county becomes too good to pass up.

However, even if the Steelers do build their new stadium within city limits, the main problem facing Pitt is what if they build a Jerry Dome to host Super Bowls, Final Fours, and CFP National Championships? What if seats 80,000 or 90,000? Surely they could sell that many tickets.

Pitt has a lot to worry about. Not only could the Steelers leave the county, they also could build some humongous stadium that Pitt can't fill 1/4 of.

 

[geeman2001]

And ... where would they build this urban behemoth within the current configuration of the north side, let alone how further developed it will be in 10-15 years? Gold 1 and 2?

Yes they could tear Heinz down, even, say 5 minutes after the final game (which would be the AFC championship game, natch). Clear that land and build a colossus on that spot (partially in winter) by Sept 1? Well, they'd have to, wouldn't they? Unless the Steelers figure to merge with St Louis for a year like they did in the 40s. Actually Pitt could probably cope better with that: could see us hold big games at a neutral site (Meadowlands?) and smaller crowd games at PNC. Steelers? No way.

For those scoffing at the crazy speculation. ... of course that is all it is. But the lack of true independence allows for it. No such need at all for the hoops team. Which was my original point.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Well, the ONLY good move I can recall Bozik making was to accept the BE invite. It must have been delivered in the A.M., as post-lunch sobriety was rare. The "thought" was that Pitt FB would NEVER retreat from that 1981 level. That was obvious by the total lack of investment in Pitt Stadium during the 1980's and 1990's. They cashed some nice Bowl checks from 1973-89, with no conference sharing....but did nothing.
That all-sports conference, if structured fairly, would have been OK, but if you look at the Cuse, B.C, Rutgers & Temple.....can you see them as strong programs today?? Not me. The Cuse collapsed after D-Mac left. The ACC is as good as we could get, given the B10 decision to just make psu the eastern punching bag.

I can't disagree with you that Pitt did not reinvest in its program. That was clearly a massive mistake from which we are still recovering.

As for the all-sports conference, frankly, I'm not sure what would've happened? There are so many variables to consider that it is impossible to say with any degree of certainty.

If I had to guess, I think it would've been very similar to the Big East football conference but with Penn State instead of Miami. Who knows? Maybe Miami would've joined later?

Maybe, as talks progressed, everyone involved would have realized that the footprint needed to be wider?

If we were forward-looking enough, and a little lucky, maybe the conference will be eventually looked something like this:

Penn State
Pitt
Temple
Rutgers
Boston College
Syracuse
West Virginia
Virginia Tech
Florida State
Miami
South Carolina
Louisville

I'm not sure if that's fair but that is a fun way to speculate and it is no less fair/realistic than many of the other things floated on this board all the time.

Then again, maybe the league would've stayed too regionalized?

Maybe it would have worked but Penn State would've left anyway whenever the Big Ten came calling?

Maybe it would have worked but South Carolina would've left anyway when the SEC can calling?

Maybe it would've worked but Florida State and Miami would've left anyway when the ACC came calling?

It's just impossible to play the what if game. The bottom line is Paterno's all sports conference plan was too slanted in favor of his school and he could not cobble together a coalition strong enough to defeat the opposition.

I wish that he had been successful in that regard as I think Pitt would be better served in a conference that was based in the Northeast than they are in one that is based in North Carolina.

Also, had he prevailed, Pitt would still be playing Penn State, Notre Dame, and West Virginia on an annual basis instead of North Carolina, Duke, and Georgia Tech.

I am certain that we could return to national prominence with the former schedule. I am uncertain if that is possible against our actual schedule.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Unless the Steelers figure to merge with St Louis for a year like they did in the 40s.

Chicago and Philadelphia: Not pleased

St. Louis: Trying to figure out what it did to get drug into this conversation.

 

[geeman2001]

Chicago and Philadelphia: Not pleased

St. Louis: Trying to figure out what it did to get drug into this conversation.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

No big deal, just trying to have some fun.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It was so good I posted it twice!

 

[geeman2001]

Thanks for the correction.

No I was actually serious. I knew about Phil-Pitt but I actually didn't know the Cardinals started in Chicago. Interesting.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

And ... where would they build this urban behemoth within the current configuration of the north side, let alone how further developed it will be in 10-15 years? Gold 1 and 2?

Yes they could tear Heinz down, even, say 5 minutes after the final game (which would be the AFC championship game, natch). Clear that land and build a colossus on that spot (partially in winter) by Sept 1? Well, they'd have to, wouldn't they? Unless the Steelers figure to merge with St Louis for a year like they did in the 40s. Actually Pitt could probably cope better with that: could see us hold big games at a neutral site (Meadowlands?) and smaller crowd games at PNC. Steelers? No way.

For those scoffing at the crazy speculation. ... of course that is all it is. But the lack of true independence allows for it. No such need at all for the hoops team. Which was my original point.

If the Rooneys build in the city, it would be over top the parking lot on the site of Three Rivers Stadium. This would require knocking down Stage AE and those restaurants/office buildings however, which I think are owned by the Stadium Authority anyway. They can be rebuilt when Heinz is torn down. If they choose not to do that, they could always play at PNC Park for a year or, heck, Penn State. The Bears played a few hours away in Champaign while the new Soldier Field was built.

One thing I know for a fact is the Steelers will have a new stadium someday. I dont know if that someday is in 10 years, 20 years, or 100 years, but they will have a new stadium. Where that stadium will be is something else I can't answer, but if I'm Pitt, I have to worry that it might not be in Allegheny County.