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FBS College Basketball has been ruined, and Capel is over

First, Champ was not a top player out of high school. He was not a top 50 player. That's what Capel needs to jump start the program. Maybe I should have qualified this by saying players who stay longer than 2 years. This crap of players quitting after 2 years and thinking they can turn pro doesn't work for most of them. And frankly, I don't care about pro basketball and don't even know the teams that exist now, nor do I care. I'm a Pitt basketball fan. I want players who commit to play for Pitt, we get to see them play and become familiar with their names, and we root for their success. I don't see that too much at Pitt now.
This is YOUR direct quote - “I'm still waiting on Capel to recruit a player, just one player, that can make a difference and want to stay here for more than a year.”

I answered your question - Justin Champagnie

I see you are doubling down on being wrong.
 
Is the rule allowing kids to transfer within D1 without having to sit one year (unless they are grad transfers) permanent? Or is it a one time deal because of the pandemic? If it is permanent, then I agree it is bad for college sports. Of course people might have said the same thing about redshirting when that practice first started (I still don't like it, but that's just my opinion, I'm sure plenty of people think it's great). If it is permanent, I assume that it will apply to all sports, including football?


It's not permanent yet, but it will be soon enough.

And the rule already applies to all sports other than football, men's and women's basketball, baseball and men's hockey. So it's not like other coaches in other sports don't already deal with this situation.

And yet somehow as far as I know they all manage to field teams every year, and somehow 25 of them make the top 25 every year. I know, right?
 
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I answered your question - Justin Champagnie
“I'm still waiting on Capel to recruit a player, just one player, that can make a difference and want to stay here for more than a year.”


To be fair, if nitpicking each word, the question becomes what difference did he make?

Winning record? No
Bye in ACC Tourney? No
Winning ACC tourney games? No
NIT invite? NO
ACCT ? NO
 
Interesting thread. "FBS College Basketball"? (After all, the acronym "FBS" stands for . . . )

Schools like George Washington, George Mason, Indiana State, Valparaiso, St. Bonaventure, Murray State, St. John's, Xavier, . . .
 
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His negativity has no impact on his credibility. His negativity has an impact on whether or not you want to read what he posts, but he's either right or wrong and his attitude has nothing to do with it.
If your always bashing the opposition that does affect your credibility , no matter how strongly you believe in something the other side of an issue almost always has areas were they are right .
 
It's not permanent yet, but it will be soon enough.

And the rule already applies to all sports other than football, men's and women's basketball, baseball and men's hockey. So it's not like other coaches in other sports don't already deal with this situation.

And yet somehow as far as I know they all manage to field teams every year, and somehow 25 of them make the top 25 every year. I know, right?

I'm gonna guess a lot of these players aren't going to be happy with the results they get from going into the portal. Some who don't see a rosy outcome may try to return, and they might not be welcomed back.

The floodgates were opened and everyone jumped in. It won't be like this every year.
 
I'm gonna guess a lot of these players aren't going to be happy with the results they get from going into the portal. Some who don't see a rosy outcome may try to return, and they might not be welcomed back.

The floodgates were opened and everyone jumped in. It won't be like this every year.


You are also playing with fire with a watered down product on the floor. Plug and Play with transfers isn't easy, especially when it involves more than half a total team. If it was so easy a lot more coaches would have had success with it the way Musselman does it. It is not easy. We are on the verge of having over 25% of all of D1 transferring, over 1200+ potential players. We are almost at 1000 already.


Its not just the results with what happens with all these individual players.


The bigger question at this point, is what happens when a coach is fired or leaves and the entire team jumps into the transfer portal. This is happening right now and it's a total mess. Its happening in the P6. Its happening in the midmajor. This can almost be like a death penalty type situation because of a coach.


What is going on right now is a total circus. There are teams right now with zero players committed. Its like Pitt under Stallings except its worse. What is happening cant be sustainable without more rules.


The product is going to be horrible. You saw what happened and what Pitt looked like when Stallings tried to do a complete full team overhaul and Louisville comes into our building and beats us by 50. Now do that same job at a low level midmajor school with flipping 13 new players in a few months. The results would be magnified by 100. Those schools would be getting beat by 100+ points to a team like Duke or Kentucky. They might as well forfeit as the fanbase would be nonexistent and the viewership would be non existent. And why would anyone want to watch that type of beating on either side. Viewership would plummet the same way it did with Pitt. No one would care to watch it.

The NCAA should tread water carefully with this. Having a free for all wild west type system could backfire badly.
 
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From Vader’s comments, one can also infer that Capel walked into a comparably difficult plug-and-play situation when he was hired. He had to assemble a team from scratch, and he got some good players. But without upper classmen, and a program culture or identity, it was difficult to create a team. Capel didn’t have depth for enforcement. We heard of players’ families complaining about player roles. Did we ever hear of anything like that with Howland/Dixon teams? Howland/Dixon teams had an identity of toughness because they drove the team to be physical, in a town with blue-collar Steeler mystique, with East Coast players. Many of our recruits themselves said they chose Pitt because the coaches told them straight up that they would have to earn their playing time, and they liked that idea. We had 4-star freshmen riding the bench when Pitt was Pitt.

Capel’s first recruiting class never came together. He got some top guys, and we thought he had done well to land them. But when we watched them, we didn’t see a lot of teamwork. Instead of watching a team beat a defense, we waited and hoped for one of the players to make a virtuoso play, or sometimes just to find and make a shot.

One can blame the coaches if one wants. But as talented as our leading players were as individuals, they never really clicked. With all their talent, Johnson and McGowens were not Knight or Krauser or Fields or Wanamaker. Capel didn’t have the depth or the bench to discipline them, yet one cannot blame them too much because they didn’t have enough support. We argued a lot but we never could get a consensus as to whether they had to force themselves to make a play when no one else was in position, or whether they were making mistakes because they didn’t have a vision of their teammates or the defense. It didn't matter. They rarely if ever looked like some of the teams we are watching in the tournament, or the Howland/Dixon teams that would just strangle their opponents.

There are three points that make me hopeful. First, Capel has another chance to build a team with new players. Maybe this time he will be luckier. He will have support from the players who are returning. It is difficult to know how much because we only had a few games to see them play together, and they may not be able to dominate the newcomers. But they are a foundation with some potential, and with a new bunch of players transferring in, Capel has a chance for a fresh start. Second, college athletes are temporary. No matter how they leave, they always leave, and then they are replaced. A lot of young men move through the program, and a lot of them don’t work out. It’s disappointing but it’s normal. My friends at Duke told me from the first that Capel would get athletes. If Pitt doesn’t have a name again, Capel still has a name, and it still means something for a player to say he is playing for Jeff Capel. Third, watching the tournament, we are seeing lower seeded teams beat bigger and better teams by outplaying them, And we are seeing how many great players there are in the country. A thousand players in the portal? Great! I see increased activity on the Board. It appears that people are getting excited just thinking that next year Pitt will have a new team.
 
From Vader’s comments, one can also infer that Capel walked into a comparably difficult plug-and-play situation when he was hired. He had to assemble a team from scratch, and he got some good players. But without upper classmen, and a program culture or identity, it was difficult to create a team. Capel didn’t have depth for enforcement. We heard of players’ families complaining about player roles. Did we ever hear of anything like that with Howland/Dixon teams? Howland/Dixon teams had an identity of toughness because they drove the team to be physical, in a town with blue-collar Steeler mystique, with East Coast players. Many of our recruits themselves said they chose Pitt because the coaches told them straight up that they would have to earn their playing time, and they liked that idea. We had 4-star freshmen riding the bench when Pitt was Pitt.

Capel’s first recruiting class never came together. He got some top guys, and we thought he had done well to land them. But when we watched them, we didn’t see a lot of teamwork. Instead of watching a team beat a defense, we waited and hoped for one of the players to make a virtuoso play, or sometimes just to find and make a shot.

One can blame the coaches if one wants. But as talented as our leading players were as individuals, they never really clicked. With all their talent, Johnson and McGowens were not Knight or Krauser or Fields or Wanamaker. Capel didn’t have the depth or the bench to discipline them, yet one cannot blame them too much because they didn’t have enough support. We argued a lot but we never could get a consensus as to whether they had to force themselves to make a play when no one else was in position, or whether they were making mistakes because they didn’t have a vision of their teammates or the defense. It didn't matter. They rarely if ever looked like some of the teams we are watching in the tournament, or the Howland/Dixon teams that would just strangle their opponents.

There are three points that make me hopeful. First, Capel has another chance to build a team with new players. Maybe this time he will be luckier. He will have support from the players who are returning. It is difficult to know how much because we only had a few games to see them play together, and they may not be able to dominate the newcomers. But they are a foundation with some potential, and with a new bunch of players transferring in, Capel has a chance for a fresh start. Second, college athletes are temporary. No matter how they leave, they always leave, and then they are replaced. A lot of young men move through the program, and a lot of them don’t work out. It’s disappointing but it’s normal. My friends at Duke told me from the first that Capel would get athletes. If Pitt doesn’t have a name again, Capel still has a name, and it still means something for a player to say he is playing for Jeff Capel. Third, watching the tournament, we are seeing lower seeded teams beat bigger and better teams by outplaying them, And we are seeing how many great players there are in the country. A thousand players in the portal? Great! I see increased activity on the Board. It appears that people are getting excited just thinking that next year Pitt will have a new team.

He has a year or two AT BEST not a clean slate , so.....
 
Neither can the coaches of these teams....

As tonight there are 132 schools that have lost at least 3 players to the transfer portal since the season ended and the meter is still running. Here are some of the numbers from other schools:

George Washington (8)
Penn State (8)
George Mason (7)
Indiana State (7)
South Florida (7)
Valparaiso (7)
Cincinnati (6)
Wake Forest (6)
Indiana (5)
Nebraska (5)
Ole Miss (5)
Pittsburgh (5)
St. Bonaventure (5)
Auburn (4)
Boston College (4)
Georgia (4)
Hawaii (4)
Kansas State (4)
Murray State (4)
St. John's (4)
Texas (4)
Texas A&M (4)
Utah (4)
Vanderbilt (4)
Xavier (4)
Iowa State (3)
Minnesota (3)
TCU (3)
UNLV (3)
Washington State (3)
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He has a year or two AT BEST not a clean slate , so.....

He shouldn't have more than another 2 years, max. He's already had his chances to "start over". It's now time to build on a foundation and put a winning team on the floor. But he doesn't have a foundation at all. That's the problem, along with his poor coaching.
 
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From Vader’s comments, one can also infer that Capel walked into a comparably difficult plug-and-play situation when he was hired. He had to assemble a team from scratch, and he got some good players. But without upper classmen, and a program culture or identity, it was difficult to create a team. Capel didn’t have depth for enforcement. We heard of players’ families complaining about player roles. Did we ever hear of anything like that with Howland/Dixon teams? Howland/Dixon teams had an identity of toughness because they drove the team to be physical, in a town with blue-collar Steeler mystique, with East Coast players. Many of our recruits themselves said they chose Pitt because the coaches told them straight up that they would have to earn their playing time, and they liked that idea. We had 4-star freshmen riding the bench when Pitt was Pitt.

Capel’s first recruiting class never came together. He got some top guys, and we thought he had done well to land them. But when we watched them, we didn’t see a lot of teamwork. Instead of watching a team beat a defense, we waited and hoped for one of the players to make a virtuoso play, or sometimes just to find and make a shot.

One can blame the coaches if one wants. But as talented as our leading players were as individuals, they never really clicked. With all their talent, Johnson and McGowens were not Knight or Krauser or Fields or Wanamaker. Capel didn’t have the depth or the bench to discipline them, yet one cannot blame them too much because they didn’t have enough support. We argued a lot but we never could get a consensus as to whether they had to force themselves to make a play when no one else was in position, or whether they were making mistakes because they didn’t have a vision of their teammates or the defense. It didn't matter. They rarely if ever looked like some of the teams we are watching in the tournament, or the Howland/Dixon teams that would just strangle their opponents.

There are three points that make me hopeful. First, Capel has another chance to build a team with new players. Maybe this time he will be luckier. He will have support from the players who are returning. It is difficult to know how much because we only had a few games to see them play together, and they may not be able to dominate the newcomers. But they are a foundation with some potential, and with a new bunch of players transferring in, Capel has a chance for a fresh start. Second, college athletes are temporary. No matter how they leave, they always leave, and then they are replaced. A lot of young men move through the program, and a lot of them don’t work out. It’s disappointing but it’s normal. My friends at Duke told me from the first that Capel would get athletes. If Pitt doesn’t have a name again, Capel still has a name, and it still means something for a player to say he is playing for Jeff Capel. Third, watching the tournament, we are seeing lower seeded teams beat bigger and better teams by outplaying them, And we are seeing how many great players there are in the country. A thousand players in the portal? Great! I see increased activity on the Board. It appears that people are getting excited just thinking that next year Pitt will have a new team.
What a refreshing post.

All I read here is that a coach should be able to go from 0 - 16 to the Sweet Sixteen in one or two seasons. Soooo, I guess HCPC could be looking at another extension this time next year if he lands Reid and Coleman.
 
What a refreshing post.

All I read here is that a coach should be able to go from 0 - 16 to the Sweet Sixteen in one or two seasons. Soooo, I guess HCPC could be looking at another extension this time next year if he lands Reid and Coleman.
There are always chicken littles and always those who call for the coach to be fired

this is going to play out over the next couple seasons
I’ll root for the laundry like always
 
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From Vader’s comments, one can also infer that Capel walked into a comparably difficult plug-and-play situation when he was hired. He had to assemble a team from scratch, and he got some good players. But without upper classmen, and a program culture or identity, it was difficult to create a team. Capel didn’t have depth for enforcement. We heard of players’ families complaining about player roles. Did we ever hear of anything like that with Howland/Dixon teams? Howland/Dixon teams had an identity of toughness because they drove the team to be physical, in a town with blue-collar Steeler mystique, with East Coast players. Many of our recruits themselves said they chose Pitt because the coaches told them straight up that they would have to earn their playing time, and they liked that idea. We had 4-star freshmen riding the bench when Pitt was Pitt.

Capel’s first recruiting class never came together. He got some top guys, and we thought he had done well to land them. But when we watched them, we didn’t see a lot of teamwork. Instead of watching a team beat a defense, we waited and hoped for one of the players to make a virtuoso play, or sometimes just to find and make a shot.

One can blame the coaches if one wants. But as talented as our leading players were as individuals, they never really clicked. With all their talent, Johnson and McGowens were not Knight or Krauser or Fields or Wanamaker. Capel didn’t have the depth or the bench to discipline them, yet one cannot blame them too much because they didn’t have enough support. We argued a lot but we never could get a consensus as to whether they had to force themselves to make a play when no one else was in position, or whether they were making mistakes because they didn’t have a vision of their teammates or the defense. It didn't matter. They rarely if ever looked like some of the teams we are watching in the tournament, or the Howland/Dixon teams that would just strangle their opponents.

There are three points that make me hopeful. First, Capel has another chance to build a team with new players. Maybe this time he will be luckier. He will have support from the players who are returning. It is difficult to know how much because we only had a few games to see them play together, and they may not be able to dominate the newcomers. But they are a foundation with some potential, and with a new bunch of players transferring in, Capel has a chance for a fresh start. Second, college athletes are temporary. No matter how they leave, they always leave, and then they are replaced. A lot of young men move through the program, and a lot of them don’t work out. It’s disappointing but it’s normal. My friends at Duke told me from the first that Capel would get athletes. If Pitt doesn’t have a name again, Capel still has a name, and it still means something for a player to say he is playing for Jeff Capel. Third, watching the tournament, we are seeing lower seeded teams beat bigger and better teams by outplaying them, And we are seeing how many great players there are in the country. A thousand players in the portal? Great! I see increased activity on the Board. It appears that people are getting excited just thinking that next year Pitt will have a new team.

You used 2 words that make me very apprehensive about what you said. Those 2 words are "hope" and "luck". Both give us nebulous, indeterminate prospects for a better future. And hope and luck weren't why Capel was hired. He needs to do better than base his recruiting and results on hope and luck. In the corporate world if you base your results on hope and luck, you invariably get steam-rolled and fired.
 
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