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Forbes Magazine List of "New Ivys" - Pitt makes the list

Nov 11, 2002
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Forbes Magazine List of New Ivys April 2025.

Forbes Business Publication compiles a list of colleges and universities that through data analysis and survey responses from C-suite executives determine to be New Ivys.

Pitt (Public) and CMU (Private) both included.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
Interesting that Pitt is in the top 10 for public universities and CMU is in the top for private universities. The colleges in Pittsburgh: Pitt, CMU, Duquesne, RMU, etc along with the extensive hospital systems are what is keeping the City of Pittsburgh economically healthy. For a City this size, these institutions are impressive.
 
Interesting that Pitt is in the top 10 for public universities and CMU is in the top for private universities. The colleges in Pittsburgh: Pitt, CMU, Duquesne, RMU, etc along with the extensive hospital systems are what is keeping the City of Pittsburgh economically healthy. For a City this size, these institutions are impressive.

The city would be a lot healthier if these clowns paid property tax. Specifically the medical systems. It's a complete farce.

In Allegheny County, the five largest tax-exempt organizations are the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center (UPMC), Allegheny Health Network (AHN), the University of Pittsburgh (Pitt), Carnegie Mellon University (CMU), and Duquesne University.
 
The city would be a lot healthier if these clowns paid property tax. Specifically the medical systems. It's a complete farce.

In Allegheny County, the five largest tax-exempt organizations are the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center (UPMC), Allegheny Health Network (AHN), the University of Pittsburgh (Pitt), Carnegie Mellon University (CMU), and Duquesne University.
it explains why any time a building or real estate comes open in oakland, the city does everything in it's power to make sure its sold for commercial use and not gobbled up by pitt.. think about the hundreds of millions of dollars of tax revenue the city is losing in oakland alone..
 
There is no way that the 50% acceptance rate mentioned in that article can be true.
 
There is no way that the 50% acceptance rate mentioned in that article can be true.
In Fall 2023, it was 49.7% (average 1360 SAT, 4.13 avg GPA). For Fall 2024, it was 58% (average 1360 SAT, 4.08 avg GPA), which is the largest admit % in a long time. Usually hovers just under 50%.

So Pitt better get its PR mileage from being in this year's "New Ivy" list, because it won't be on it next year.
 
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The city would be a lot healthier if these clowns paid property tax. Specifically the medical systems. It's a complete farce.

In Allegheny County, the five largest tax-exempt organizations are the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center (UPMC), Allegheny Health Network (AHN), the University of Pittsburgh (Pitt), Carnegie Mellon University (CMU), and Duquesne University.
Actually, it would just knee cap the institutions that are keeping the inefficiently run city afloat, because those institutions compete against other institutions that are tax exempt as well. UPMC's competition isn't AHN, it is Cleveland Clinic, Mayo, MD Anderson, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, and Penn. And Pitt's competition isn't CMU and Duquesne, it is Penn State, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Ohio State, Temple, etc.
 
Actually, it would just knee cap the institutions that are keeping the inefficiently run city afloat, because those institutions compete against other institutions that are tax exempt as well. UPMC's competition isn't AHN, it is Cleveland Clinic, Mayo, MD Anderson, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, and Penn. And Pitt's competition isn't CMU and Duquesne, it is Penn State, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Ohio State, Temple, etc.
Good point. So it would have to be a nationwide change.

I just have no sympathy for an organization that pays it's CEO untold millions and has travertine marble and silk curtains outside the CEO's office but calls itself a non profit. https://www.post-gazette.com/busine...rters-at-U-S-Steel-Tower/stories/200803090185

A buddy of mine runs a non profit in the east end that concentrates on stormwater management, watershed stewardship, tree planting, etc. That's an actual non profit. They rely on grants and such.

Now you could say the city, county, and schools would waste the extra tax money, which I'm sure they would, so you'd need to probably do this as a revenue neutral deal where all of Allegheny county was provided property tax relief equal to the amount made up by the non profit paying taxes, split across all taxing bodies.

Wishful thinking.
 
The University of Pittsburgh and UPMC bring in millions of dollars to the city and create hundreds of jobs.

The National Science Foundation (NSF) ranks Universities by Total R&D expenditures (comparing Pitt, Florida State, and Clemson).

Pitt ranked #17 with $1.398 Billion R&D
FSU ranked #79 with $0.414 Billion R&D
Clemson ranked #109 with $0.286 Billion R&D

A TOP Rated Research University is very important to the city.

Also lets not forget that Pitt is building the new on campus 17 Story $1.5 Billion Hospital which will be completed in 2026 (many construction/trade jobs now and many others when completed).

Also, Pitt is building the new BioForge Research Facility at Hazlewood Green (site of an old steel facility).
The facility was helped by a $100 million grant from the Mellon Foundation (largest single grant).
The facility when completed in 2026 will bring many high tech jobs to the city.

Pitt is also constructing the $250 million Victory Heights Sports Complex requiring many construction/trade workers.

When is the city going to reopen the Panther Hollow Bridge. Have not heard an update since they closed it in Oct. 2024.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
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In Fall 2023, it was 49.7% (average 1360 SAT, 4.13 avg GPA). For Fall 2024, it was 58% (average 1360 SAT, 4.08 avg GPA), which is the largest admit % in a long time. Usually hovers just under 50%.

So Pitt better get its PR mileage from being in this year's "New Ivy" list, because it won't be on it next year.
That is bonkers to me. I suppose if mostly very well qualified candidates are the ones who are applying, but I was still under the impression that Pitt was a bit more selective than this.
 
The University of Pittsburgh and UPMC bring in millions of dollars to the city and create hundreds of jobs.

The National Science Foundation (NSF) ranks Universities by Total R&D expenditures (comparing Pitt, Florida State, and Clemson).

Pitt ranked #17 with $1.398 Billion R&D
FSU ranked #79 with $0.414 Billion R&D
Clemson ranked #109 with $0.286 Billion R&D

A TOP Rated Research University is very important to the city.

Also lets not forget that Pitt is building the new on campus 17 Story $1.5 Billion Hospital which will be completed in 2026 (many construction/trade jobs now and many others when completed).

Also, Pitt is building the new BioForge Research Facility at Hazlewood Green (site of an old steel facility).
The facility was helped by a $100 million grant from the Mellon Foundation (largest single grant).
The facility when completed in 2026 will bring many high tech jobs to the city.

Pitt is also constructing the $250 million Victory Heights Sports Complex requiring many construction/trade workers.

When is the city going to reopen the Panther Hollow Bridge. Have not heard an update since they closed it in Oct. 2024.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
Is PItt building this eyesore of a hospital in oakland or is UPMC?

interesting about the bioforge research center, i was unaware of that. sounds great. have they started construction yet? I swear that hazelwood project is going on 20+ years and just nothing seems to be going up. i know upmc backed out of some lab project there 15 years ago but forget the details..
 
Is PItt building this eyesore of a hospital in oakland or is UPMC?

interesting about the bioforge research center, i was unaware of that. sounds great. have they started construction yet? I swear that hazelwood project is going on 20+ years and just nothing seems to be going up. i know upmc backed out of some lab project there 15 years ago but forget the details..


BioForge is currently being built (Top off was completed)

BioForge a facility that promises to transform how precision biological medicines are made and drive life sciences innovation in the region. It is intended to drive breakthroughs in the way targeted cells and gene therapies are produced. An emerging billions of dollars of business in biomedical research. Online has many articles describing BioForge in detail.

UPMC is constructing the new Hospital.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
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That is bonkers to me. I suppose if mostly very well qualified candidates are the ones who are applying, but I was still under the impression that Pitt was a bit more selective than this.
Admission % is a stat that doesn't mean as much as it used to and I think US News dropped it as a metric in their rankings.

Each student applies to multiple, sometimes dozens of schools looking for the best aid packages. Matriculation rates of admitted students have plummeted across the board, so schools have to admit more students to keep their enrollment levels stable. In Pitt's case, it has also been increasing enrollment steadily.

So over the past decade, the number of students applying to Pitt has about doubled compared to 10 years ago, but Pitt also now admits more than double the number student while at the same time it has increased enrollment of incoming freshman by about 20%. Pitt generally has been steadily getting larger without impacting admission standards too much.
 
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Is PItt building this eyesore of a hospital in oakland or is UPMC?

interesting about the bioforge research center, i was unaware of that. sounds great. have they started construction yet? I swear that hazelwood project is going on 20+ years and just nothing seems to be going up. i know upmc backed out of some lab project there 15 years ago but forget the details..
You are thinking about UPMC "backing out" of a government vaccine production facility... what really happened is that it didn't get awarded the federal facility. Texas A&M did, because the state of Texas put a lot more resources into securing the facility (https://ciadm.tamu.edu/history.html)

When your state support sucks, this is what happens.

Bioforge is completely a Pitt project, with help from a Mellon Foundation grant (and probably...or least formerly, NIH grants). But Pitt doesn't build hospitals. Clinical practice was spun off the university back in the late 90s when UPMC and Pitt legally separated.

So this is the eyesore?:
Exterior%20%20Tower%20View%20%2001


I'm not sure how one expects modern hospitals are supposed to look, but I think it could be much worse. In nearly any circumstance, if it is good for UPMC, it is good for Pitt.
 
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You are thinking about UPMC "backing out" of a government vaccine production facility... what really happened is that it didn't get awarded the federal facility. Texas A&M did, because the state of Texas put a lot more resources into securing the facility (https://ciadm.tamu.edu/history.html)

When your state support sucks, this is what happens.

Bioforge is complete a Pitt project, with help from a Mellon Foundation grant (and probably...or least formerly, NIH grants). But Pitt doesn't build hospitals. Clinical practice was spun off the university back in the late 90s when UPMC and Pitt legally separated.

So this is the eyesore:
Exterior%20%20Tower%20View%20%2001


I'm not sure how one expects modern hospitals are supposed to look, but I think it could be much worse. In nearly any circumstance, if it is good for UPMC, it is good for Pitt.
it's good for upmc, RIP pitt campus. thank you for the info though, i trust your knowledge. and yes, that is quite an impressive rendering and im sure once completed, it will be nice.

just stinks that land is at a minimum and pitt's campus has been completely engulfed by a healthcare system.
 
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Is PItt building this eyesore of a hospital in oakland or is UPMC?

interesting about the bioforge research center, i was unaware of that. sounds great. have they started construction yet? I swear that hazelwood project is going on 20+ years and just nothing seems to be going up. i know upmc backed out of some lab project there 15 years ago but forget the details..
UPMC, and……..it’s not an eyesore.
A very well designed and executed project.
Green spaces with nature friendly exterior design.
Can’t wait to see the interior details and traffic flow patterns.
It will provide in excess of 600 beds.
 
Especially when there’s such a need for an on campus stadium.

An on campus stadium would be used just 7 times per year while a $1.5 Billion Hospital would be used 24/7 employing hundreds of people.

There is more money in Research than Sports.

Pitt has a student body of about 33,000 students (10,000 grad/23,000 undergrad) while Penn State has a student body of about 88,000.

However, Pitt conducts more R&D Research when compared to Penn State according to NSF rankings.

Pitt ranked #17 with $1.398 Billion R&D.
Penn State ranked #26 with $1.206 Billion R&D.
Temple ranked #106 with $0.292 Billion R&D. (Included as the 3rd PA State Related University)

Penn State may be getting smaller due to a decrease in student body matriculation at it Branch Campuses.

Penn State currently has 19 Branch Campuses and is now considering closing 12 Branch Campuses (final decision due in May).

Penn State potentially closing 12 Branch Campuses due to financial concerns but investing $700 million in upgrading Beaver Stadium (used 7 times per year) will make an interesting news story in the local communities losing their branch.

Enjoy the Pitt football game (7 times per year) at Acrisure Stadium in the comfort of Club Seating.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
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The city would be a lot healthier if these clowns paid property tax. Specifically the medical systems. It's a complete farce.

In Allegheny County, the five largest tax-exempt organizations are the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center (UPMC), Allegheny Health Network (AHN), the University of Pittsburgh (Pitt), Carnegie Mellon University (CMU), and Duquesne University.
breckfast-breakfast.gif
 
it's good for upmc, RIP pitt campus. thank you for the info though, i trust your knowledge. and yes, that is quite an impressive rendering and im sure once completed, it will be nice.

just stinks that land is at a minimum and pitt's campus has been completely engulfed by a healthcare system.
UPMC is building on UPMC-owned land, which was the site of the old Children's hospital, and has been targeted for construction of a new hospital since before Children's was relocated. It is great for Pitt Med and Pitt nursing that the flagship system hospital, Presby, is being upgraded to a modern facility. Over the past couple decades, Pitt has actually acquired a few UPMC parcels, but not vice versa. UPMC has moved components out of Oakland, not vice versa.
 
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An on campus stadium would be used just 7 times per year while a $1.5 Billion Hospital would be used 24/7 employing hundreds of people.

There is more money in Research than Sports.

Pitt has a student body of about 33,000 students (10,000 grad/23,000 undergrad) while Penn State has a student body of about 88,000.

However, Pitt conducts more R&D Research when compared to Penn State according to NSF rankings.

Pitt ranked #17 with $1.398 Billion R&D.
Penn State ranked #26 with $1.206 Billion R&D.
Temple ranked #106 with $0.292 Billion R&D. (Included as the 3rd PA State Related University)

Penn State may be getting smaller due to a decrease in student body matriculation at it Branch Campuses.

Penn State currently has 19 Branch Campuses and is now considering closing 12 Branch Campuses (final decision due in May).

Penn State potentially closing 12 Branch Campuses due to financial concerns but investing $700 million in upgrading Beaver Stadium (used 7 times per year) will make an interesting news story in the local communities losing their branch.

Enjoy the Pitt football game (7 times per year) at Acrisure Stadium in the comfort of Club Seating.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

Well, with NIH indirects dropping to 15% (pending litigation), conducting federal research... the federal goverment being where the vast majority of all biomedical research funding comes from... is likely to put some such research enterprises in the red. We are entering a very different time.

Penn State's overall system will get smaller, but it is unlikely to shrink the University Park campus. The remaining campus campuses will absorb some of the students that would have gone to the closing branches. Whatever the difference in matriculation to University Park will be made by up by admitting more students and transfers to University Park. Beds still need to be filled, and PSU will feel the slashing of indirect rates too.

There is no place to put a functional FBS stadium and the associated required infrastructure in Oakland. That ship sailed in 1999, and the location means absolutely nothing to the football program's competitiveness, especially in the era of professionalization of the sport with NIL. Now combine that with a University that is going to be under financial pressures not seen in 30 years.
 
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Well, with NIH indirects dropping to 15% (pending lawsuits), conducting federal research, and the federal goverment where the vast majority of all biomedical research funding comes from, is likely to put some such research enterprises in the red. We are entering a very different time.

Penn State's overall system will get smaller, but it is unlikely to shrink the University Park campus. The remaining campus campuses will absorb some of the students that would have gone to the closing branches. Whatever the difference in matriculation to University Park will be made by up by admitting more students and transfers to University Park. Beds still need to be filled, and PSU will feel the slashing of indirect rates too.

There is no place to put a functional FBS stadium and the associated required infrastructure in Oakland. That ship sailed in 1999, and the location means absolutely nothing to the football program's competitiveness, especially in the era of professionalization of the sport with NIL. Now combine that with a University that is going to be under financial pressures not seen in 30 years.


Yes, just the beginning of the financial pressure Colleges and Universities will face with the onset of the "Baby Bust Generation".

With a significant drop in the number of HS seniors graduating each year (continuing for next 10-15 years) coupled with a decrease in the number of seniors who want to attend college (now only 62% I believe) maintaining tuition paying student body will be a challenge.

In the next decade we will probably see many small/mid sized colleges close.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
An on campus stadium would be used just 7 times per year while a $1.5 Billion Hospital would be used 24/7 employing hundreds of people.

There is more money in Research than Sports.

Pitt has a student body of about 33,000 students (10,000 grad/23,000 undergrad) while Penn State has a student body of about 88,000.

However, Pitt conducts more R&D Research when compared to Penn State according to NSF rankings.

Pitt ranked #17 with $1.398 Billion R&D.
Penn State ranked #26 with $1.206 Billion R&D.
Temple ranked #106 with $0.292 Billion R&D. (Included as the 3rd PA State Related University)

Penn State may be getting smaller due to a decrease in student body matriculation at it Branch Campuses.

Penn State currently has 19 Branch Campuses and is now considering closing 12 Branch Campuses (final decision due in May).

Penn State potentially closing 12 Branch Campuses due to financial concerns but investing $700 million in upgrading Beaver Stadium (used 7 times per year) will make an interesting news story in the local communities losing their branch.

Enjoy the Pitt football game (7 times per year) at Acrisure Stadium in the comfort of Club Seating.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
Are you under the assumption that penn state beaver and the PSU athletics department are operating under the same budget plan or something? Cuz they’re definitely not lol. Nor is the pool of money for Pitt Athletics and UPMC the same thing
 
Are you under the assumption that penn state beaver and the PSU athletics department are operating under the same budget plan or something? Cuz they’re definitely not lol. Nor is the pool of money for Pitt Athletics and UPMC the same thing
UPMC is NOT under the University at all, Pitt the University includes sports.....just like psu. Big difference.
 
That is bonkers to me. I suppose if mostly very well qualified candidates are the ones who are applying, but I was still under the impression that Pitt was a bit more selective than this.

I guess I'm curious where the cutoff for selective is these days. The amount of AP course offerings that can push a GPA further north of 4.0 I'd assume is increasing over time. At a glance on average needing a GPA north of 4.0 and an SAT score north of 1300 sounds highly selective to me? Even adjusting for increased opportunities for higher grade point averages; I can't imagine many people in my high school graduating class outside of students in the 10 ten graduates would be able to get into Pitt now based on these standards.

Or are these numbers much easier to achieve today than they were 30 years ago?
 
I guess I'm curious where the cutoff for selective is these days. The amount of AP course offerings that can push a GPA further north of 4.0 I'd assume is increasing over time. At a glance on average needing a GPA north of 4.0 and an SAT score north of 1300 sounds highly selective to me? Even adjusting for increased opportunities for higher grade point averages; I can't imagine many people in my high school graduating class outside of students in the 10 ten graduates would be able to get into Pitt now based on these standards.

Or are these numbers much easier to achieve today than they were 30 years ago?
Well, the short answer about it being easier is yes, because there was a re-calibration of SAT scoring scales in the mid-1990s, so scores are about 100 points higher by default since then, and there was rarely such a thing as a >4.0 GPAs 30 years ago.

The SAT testing methodology has also changed but how that impacts scores is up for debate. The national average SAT score 20 years ago was 1026 and last year it was 1024, which sounds consistent, but it has wobbled from as low as 1002 to as high 1068 during that time period.

Here is what I can say regarding Pitt though... the average SAT score for freshman admits thirty years ago was 1122, twenty years ago it was 1235, and it was 1360 this past fall. Over the past 20 year time period, Pitt's average has been as high as 1370 and as low as 1225.

But what might be more informative is looking at the difference between Pitt's average SATs and the national average SAT score. This past year was Pitt's all-time greatest difference at +336 average points higher than the national average; 10 years ago it was at +260; 20 years ago +209; and 30 years ago it was +119.

So, for the past 30 years, Pitt has been steadily increasing the quality of its freshman class as measured by standardized testing, while during the same 30 year stretch it has increased the sizes of its freshman classes by a total of 91%.
 
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US News "Best Graduate Schools" 2025, Pitt Law School moves up 12 spots to now Rank #79 and Duquesne Law now Ranked #92.

Paco (as he has in the past) may issue a new OT commenting on other Pitt Graduate School rankings in this most resent US News Publication.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
US News "Best Graduate Schools" 2025, Pitt Law School moves up 12 spots to now Rank #79 and Duquesne Law now Ranked #92.

Paco (as he has in the past) may issue a new OT commenting on other Pitt Graduate School rankings in this most resent US News Publication.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

Here are some additional changes from the prior year, in order of biggest change:

Pitt Law ranked #75, up 16 spots from 91st last year.
Clinical Training 123->101
International law: 66->45
Criminal law 61->51
Environmental law: 94->86
Corporate law 85->78
Tax law: 40->35
Constitutional law 68->65
Dispute resolution: debut at 110
Trial advocacy: 150->151
Health Care Law: 28->34
Intellectual property: 48->58
Contract law 64->83
Pitt Engineering ranked #43, up one from 44th last year

Pitt Business is #46, up one from 47th last year.

Part time MBA: 35->36

Pitt Med remains in tier 1, which is the top 16 medical schools for research (primary care remained in tier 2).

Pitt Public Health remained at 16.
Biostatistics: 17->13
Environmental Health: 18->15
Epidemiology: 17->15
Health Care Management 14->12
Health & Policy Management: 14->18
Social & Behav Sci: 20->unranked (>23)
Pitt Nursing (doctorate) #12, down one from 11th last year
Nursing-Midwifery: 29->26

Pitt Education ranked #35, down one from 34th.

These schools don't have overall school ranking but individual programs within them were ranked:

Pitt Computing and Information

Computer Science: 56->51
Library & Info Science: 17->16

Pitt Rehabilitation Sciences:
Physician Assistant:50->26
Physical Therapy: 8->9
Occupational Therapy: 1->3
Rehabilitation Counseling: 17->24

Pitt Dietrich School of Arts & Sciences
Psychology: 39->14
Sociology: 54->51
Economics: 38->41
History: 32->36
Political Science: 37->41
Clinical Psychology: 8->14
English 32->42

Other programs didn't move or the rankings weren't updated
 
Here are some additional changes from the prior year, in order of biggest change:

Pitt Law ranked #75, up 16 spots from 91st last year.
Clinical Training 123->101
International law: 66->45
Criminal law 61->51
Environmental law: 94->86
Corporate law 85->78
Tax law: 40->35
Constitutional law 68->65
Dispute resolution: debut at 110
Trial advocacy: 150->151
Health Care Law: 28->34
Intellectual property: 48->58
Contract law 64->83
Pitt Engineering ranked #43, up one from 44th last year

Pitt Business is #46, up one from 47th last year.

Part time MBA: 35->36

Pitt Med remains in tier 1, which is the top 16 medical schools for research (primary care remained in tier 2).

Pitt Public Health remained at 16.
Biostatistics: 17->13
Environmental Health: 18->15
Epidemiology: 17->15
Health Care Management 14->12
Health & Policy Management: 14->18
Social & Behav Sci: 20->unranked (>23)
Pitt Nursing (doctorate) #12, down one from 11th last year
Nursing-Midwifery: 29->26

Pitt Education ranked #35, down one from 34th.

These schools don't have overall school ranking but individual programs within them were ranked:

Pitt Computing and Information

Computer Science: 56->51
Library & Info Science: 17->16

Pitt Rehabilitation Sciences:
Physician Assistant:50->26
Physical Therapy: 8->9
Occupational Therapy: 1->3
Rehabilitation Counseling: 17->24

Pitt Dietrich School of Arts & Sciences
Psychology: 39->14
Sociology: 54->51
Economics: 38->41
History: 32->36
Political Science: 37->41
Clinical Psychology: 8->14
English 32->42

Other programs didn't move or the rankings weren't updated

Thanks Paco!!!!

These current rankings show that Pitt is truly a great University that we all can be proud.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
I’m pretty impressed by the new law dean. In particular, he’s been very open about a goal of having the law school being ranked in the top 50. There are a number of law schools that are part of weaker institutions than Pitt - Florida and Texas A&M, in particular - who have managed to game the rankings to move into the top 50, and it seems like a worthy and achievable goal.
 
I’m pretty impressed by the new law dean. In particular, he’s been very open about a goal of having the law school being ranked in the top 50. There are a number of law schools that are part of weaker institutions than Pitt - Florida and Texas A&M, in particular - who have managed to game the rankings to move into the top 50, and it seems like a worthy and achievable goal.
No Pitt medical or health science unit should be outside the top 20 and no other unit at Pitt should be outside the top 50...including undergrad. If you aren't gaming the ranking system, you just don't care about your unit's perception, and that is a failure, because the currency of academia is prestige and everyone else is doing it.
 
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