Only thing deader than this board is the Pete. From a hoops perspective Dec 30 can't get here fast enough.
Game Night
- Thread starter Delpanther
- Start date
I think this can be a pretty good team this year, but that aside, when I consider what I have observed about Pitt hoops attendance this year and the overall availability of tickets, this is a classic case of an athletic department that has really been clueless regarding marketing and scheduling the last4-5 years. This is what happens when you go to sleep at the switch and take your customers for granted. You snooze and you lose!
This board was as slow as Eastern Wash. I don't think I've ever seen a slower team. Slow to run, react, jump...you name it.
I'll try...
Despite playing lower ability teams, I'm encouraged that our man defense actually looks competent.
Perhaps Raphael in the middle is helping pull it together.
Despite playing lower ability teams, I'm encouraged that our man defense actually looks competent.
Perhaps Raphael in the middle is helping pull it together.
Slow BB ticket sales and low attendance is what you get when you have a football team that is doing much better than in the past and a football coach that everybody loves.
In the past, fans couldn't get away fast enough from Chryst, Graham and Wannstedt.
Times have changed.
In the past, fans couldn't get away fast enough from Chryst, Graham and Wannstedt.
Times have changed.
Yeah, when a thread on Iowa vs Iowa State is getting more activity here than our game then things are REALLY dead.
Pitt just plays so slow and Dixon emphasizes defense so much that the casual fan doesn't want to go watch that crap.
Looks like that's another excuse being disproven pretty emphatically.
He also did a great job on the defensive boards today, which helps a lot. Also, KenPom agrees. We jumped up 20 defensive efficiency spots after today's game.
Fans of a quicker pace are definitely going to love Damon Wilson, he likes to push the tempo.
We beat Eastern Washington by considerably more (33) than the odds makers (18) and Sagarin's computer (21) predicted. If it were only one game this wouldn't mean much but; say what you will, when you do this consistently and repeatedly you are demonstrating you are better than currently rated and perceived. We are currently playing (since the Duquesne game) more like a top 15 team than a #25 to #30 team.
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Seems we've played the same way(slow D oriented) even as recent as the Fields,Young and Blair days....We played these same cupcakes back then too..Seems we brought in good crowds then or nobody seemed to get on here and whine about it at least.
I agree (I was being sarcastic in my initial post). Style of play was just always brought up as a reason for Pitt's poor attendance relative to their success. They're playing the style that people claimed to be needed to draw in the casual folks who wanted entertainment over winning, and nothing has happened.
IMO, the basketball team was a novelty. The city doesn't like basketball, so once that novelty wore off this is what Pitt has. Winning doesn't matter, style of play doesn't matter, having kids from Pittsburgh doesn't matter, opponents don't matter. None of the excuses made actually matter. It's just not a good sports city relative to the regard with which the fans hold themselves.
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Dude your unreal. Back to blaming the fans i see. Serious question. How many games do you attend? I sure hope you go to every game. Because the amount of criticism you throw at Pitt fans. It sure would expose what a hypocrite you are.
So again. How many games do you go too?
I agree with this to a large degree. Perhaps slightly more to the point, this simply is NOT a hoops town.
Did it ever occur to you and moneybalz that perhaps Pitt would have to actually beat a team someone has heard of playing wide open basketball to keep or gain a few fans? Pitt alienated their customers with $hit scheduling, less successful teams and a boring on the court product. Simple as that. You refuse to face the truth because it reflects poorly on the HC. Get over it. Has nothing to do with Pittsburgh or the fans.
I live in Houston, but attend every game I'm in town for. I attended the Cornell game over Thanksgiving and will be at the Western Carolina and Syracuse games coming up. I never missed a game in my 5 years at Pitt (needed 150 credits for my certifications), and didn't miss a single home game for probably 4 or 5 years before my time at Pitt. Also was at every Greentree game.
I love basketball, Pitt or not. Obviously Pitt is my team, but going to any game is never a chore for me. I love seeing Pitt basketball games in person.
Edit: Cordially, I hope you had fun tonight, shere. As a Pitt superfan who is above any and all criticism, I'm sure you were at tonight's game. As such, I hope it was enjoyable. It was probably fun to watch Pitt not winding the clock down to 5 seconds and shooting. I greatly appreciated you speaking of the teams you watched play college basketball last year while betting, and assessing their talent. I made quite a bit! (I won't tell you whether I bet for you or against you)
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Pitt had poor attendance back in 2008-09 and 2011-12 as well. People showed up for the big games, but attendance was sparse for the OOC and maybe at 75-80% the lesser Conference foes like Providence, Seton Hall, and DePaul. I was there. The whole "they used to pack the Pete" view is a total myth.
To be honest Joe, I really do think this has at least a little something to do with it.
this is an exciting team. we need a win over a bit team to get the fans pumped. I think this could be a big year. the Pete will be rocking.
unfortunately, we lost a lot of rivalries when we lost the Big East. we need to beat the crap out of Duke and start a fight, make it a war. the fans like that.
I think Maia could do a Dejuan blair and flip some 5 star duke big over his back and glare at him.
unfortunately, we lost a lot of rivalries when we lost the Big East. we need to beat the crap out of Duke and start a fight, make it a war. the fans like that.
I think Maia could do a Dejuan blair and flip some 5 star duke big over his back and glare at him.
I agree, I just wanted to sort of lay out all of the reasons that people have given for the lack of attendance to better underscore the fact that this simply isn't a town that likes basketball.
It was the "it" thing for a bit, but after a little while it just became basketball and interest waned.
I'll say this, though -- I think Pitt basketball has led to a semi-resurgence of basketball in the area. Not to a crazy extent, it still isn't a good area, but I think it's at least made basketball somewhat "cool". Maybe the health risks of football have contributed more than Pitt and I'm drawing conclusions from a totally unrelated set of data, but I feel like from growing up and playing on the Pittsburgh basketball scene that having a relevant basketball entity in the area has made it a more appealing option for kids in recent years.
No, it doesn't. Is it possible that someday it could? Perhaps. But the notion that Pitt basketball attendance is being held down by the football team going 8-4 is ridiculous. Dave Wannstedt was a beloved yinzer and had teams that went better than 8-4, and it didn't hurt basketball attendance even one little bit.
Seriously, do you really think that the reason so few people attended tonight's game or some of the other game this season is because the football team went 8-4 and hasn't played a game in a couple of weeks? The reason that attendance has fallen is because we are coming of a stretch of reduced results in a town that is packed with people who don't know if a basketball is blown up or stuffed. People have always gone to the Pitt basketball games at the Pete because they were an event. It isn't so much of an event anymore. Football has nothing to do with that. Attendance would be pretty much exactly the same this season if the football team went 8-4 or 10-2 or went 6-6 again for the 27th year in a row.
I don't want to watch us play cupcakes, but I completely understand that we need to play them. If you are too dense to understand the need to buy games, then there is no sense discussing anything with you.
Every team plays these games and plenty of them (Cuse).
Frankly, I'm a hoops junkie (or I used to be), but I haven't watched much basketball this year. I'm done with Pitt until we do something worthwhile and I'm mostly done with college basketball because it is a pretty poor product. it is a shame, because I used to love both.
I really don't think we are disagreeing all that much. For example, I agree with so much of your second paragraph (blown up or stuffed, going to games because they were an event, etc).
Otherwise, the example I will state is largely anecdotal, but I do think it extrapolates, at least to some extent.
There are some Pitt Basketball season ticket holders who really are much bigger football fans.
For quite a while, even though they like football better, basketball was the only of the two that seemed worth "hoping" about. And they like it because it was, like you said, an event.
But now with Football offering much more energy or "hope," to some it's "why bother" with basketball, at least until the ACC. Before, with football offering little, at least hoops offered "something."
I may be talking about a small group of people, but I do think there is at least some association.
Pitt strength of schedule-#13 in the country.
http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_159_Men.html
Discuss....
http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_159_Men.html
Discuss....
Unless buy-games were present in 1971, Del thinks they're utterly useless and completely irrelevant to modern sports.
RPI is useless.
I think that's a very relevant number for the NCAA Tournament and whatnot, I don't want to discount it in that sense, but just in general I think RPI is a totally useless and elementary number that holds absolutely no predictive or intrinsic value.
Again, before anybody jumps on me (I'm a numbers guy, remember?!), I think it's really good to track for NCAA purposes, but it's so easy to manipulate that I don't think it actually tells you much about a team (yes, I'm saying the NCAA committee is using inferior information to make selections [also yes I think that the NCAA Tournament does a horrific job of finding the best team]).
Pederson screwed with the faithful when he instituted that crap about moving die hard fans out of their seats if some Johnny come lately rode in with more cash. The chickens are coming home to roost on that one.
Well, considering the RPI has been used to seed teams since the stoneage. The Top RPI teams get the Top seeds. And the Top rpi teams always win the National Title. Your theory would be wrong. The rpi is the best tool out there generally speaking to rank teams outside using your own eyes.
My eye test tells me pomeroys ranking on Pitt is laughable. His Kent State ranking, which Pomeroy had Kent State ranked 330 2 weeks ago, was also laughable. You dont need stats to get an idea of who's remotely good or not.
With all that said, I posted that link because Pitt has played the 13th toughest schedule in the country to date. Which is different than RPI.
I'm a Pomeroy subscriber. He didn't have Kent State close to 330. Kent State hasn't been below 138th on KenPom all year.
I agreed that the NCAA Tournament Committee uses RPI and in that sense it has value, I just don't think it tells you anything about a team. Similarly, the RPI SOS doesn't have much value outside of NCAA Tournament seeding. It's relevant for Pitt's Tournament draws, but doesn't tell you anything about Pitt itself. If people are going to overrate the NCAA Tournament's value, it would at least be constructive to know the true ability of Pitt's team going in.
You're free to post any other fallacies you'd like about KenPom, lucky for us he posts what teams are ranked when they play other teams so I can go ahead and blow any other lies out of the water.
I've been looking for a Mike412 on the basketball side of things who just makes up easily googled facts to support his arguments.
I cant pull his previous rankings. I dont pay for it. But Ill start printscreening some of his goofyness from here on out. I know Kent State was ranked in the 300's at some point.
Because Ive had debates over Pomeroy. Im going to keep a track record of it. Its funny. Because on this Pitt board Pomeroy is the second coming of Jesus. On the main college basketball board, 98% of the people there laugh at pomeroy.
I look at it, but with a grain of salt.
We'll just stick to seeding teams, which is what is important.
The RPI is used.
Pomeroy isnt.
I care about what seed Pitt gets. There is not much more to say. If you dont think the Top seeds dominate the Top of the RPI, I can show you they do, it is 100% correlated.
