GOT - “Bran the Broken”

[mbe 34]

I really didn’t care too much for the last two episodes.
Writers seemed a little lazy - guess they wanted to move on.
But over all this was a great series.
You could discuss forever the plots twists - most hated villian.
Production, casting, directing were all very good.

Wonder if Ghost’s ear will grow back?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The United States just elected Justin Trudeau President.

 

[Ski11585]

Bran the Builder makes more sense.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I really didn’t care too much for the last two episodes.
Writers seemed a little lazy - guess they wanted to move on.
But over all this was a great series.
You could discuss forever the plots twists - most hated villian.
Production, casting, directing were all very good.

Wonder if Ghost’s ear will grow back?

I thought it was too out of character, even for Daenerys, to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians like that and to totally destroy the city she wanted to rule. I mean I guess you could say it was fitting because in the end, she became her dad. She was a Targaryen after all but I didn't like it.

Bran being named King, to me, just doesn't fit. I never liked his storyline and I just feel like he didn't put in enough work. Yea, I know what he did North of the Wall and all that, it just cheapens it for me that this show ended up all being about him.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I thought it was too out of character, even for Daenerys, to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians like that and to totally destroy the city she wanted to rule. I mean I guess you could say it was fitting because in the end, she became her dad. She was a Targaryen after all but I didn't like it.

Bran being named King, to me, just doesn't fit. I never liked his storyline and I just feel like he didn't put in enough work. Yea, I know what he did North of the Wall and all that, it just cheapens it for me that this show ended up all being about him.

Starks won the game of thrones.
Bran-king of 6 kingdoms
Sansa-queen of the North
Jon-king beyond the Wall
Arya?- guess we will find out in a spin off.

 

[TJFAIRLIE]

I agree the writing seemed lazy.
Daenerys became too evil too fast.

Arya was one of my favorite characters all along, and I was disappointed with how she seemingly chickened out during the destruction of Kings Landing

I'm OK with Bran becoming King in general, but they should have developed him better if that was the plan all along.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Was just a meh conclusion.
No major issues.

 

[Jeffburgh]

I agree the writing seemed lazy.
Daenerys became too evil too fast.

Arya was one of my favorite characters all along, and I was disappointed with how she seemingly chickened out during the destruction of Kings Landing

I'm OK with Bran becoming King in general, but they should have developed him better if that was the plan all along.

Right. They did lay the groundwork to a certain extent, but it was just too quick of a 180 from a genuinely caring person to torching KL with her dragon for no reason at all. AND, her throwing herself at her brother repeatedly was also very much out of character. One moment threatened by him, the next time jumping his bones.

And, also, yes, outside of some episodes when he was north of the wall not enough meat for developing Bran to have him be the guy running the six kingdoms at the end.

Last season also tended to be more campy than the show was for a half decade plus.

That said, for such an expansive storyline, with so many characters and threads going, there was no way to land it in a pretty package with a bow in one shortened season.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Nowhere near enough groundwork especially with over year in the making.
This last episode mostly meandered along.
Thought Tyrion chained scenes were overextended.
The committee choosing Bran scene didn't pull it off.
And Jon/Dany should have been probably the biggest moment in the series and it fell way short.
Anticlimactic and mostly disappointing.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Finale was decent up until the midpoint. Everything afterwards was boring and relatively pointless. I know they have to set up the sequels but could have done with a little more substance at the end. A 2 hour episode with actual dialogue in the final 30 minutes for Arya and Jon would have been nice.

I agree, the Bran thing seemed forced and ridiculous given his character's storyline. And the Danerys switch to an evil madwoman was too quick and unbelievable.

 

[lilspainishflea]

The biggest issues again were the "plot armor" that the series tried to avoid and speeding things along too quickly. Making the final act 12 episodes instead of 20 did a huge disservice to the series and to the fans.

1) Jon should have died after stabbing Dany. Seriously, Grey Worm goes from bloodlusty maniac executing prisoners in the street to imprisoning his hated rival after that guy killed his George Washington/Abe Lincoln/Jesus? It made no sense. Jon was devoted to duty, always. He knew what killing Dany meant. He did it to save hundreds of thousands of people from Dany. He should have either been killed by Drogon or Grey Worm.

2) Dany went from savior of Westeros to war criminal to aspiring tyrant to murdered in 3 episodes, the last 2 in the span of like 20 minutes. It was a complete 180 for a person that went from freeing tens of thousands of slaves in Essos and chaining her own children in a dungeon because they killed a SINGLE child to burning what might be the largest city in the world to the ground after it surrendered. I'm ok with them going there with her, but it definitely wasn't earned. The writers checked out and were ready to move on. Just a very disappointing end to a series that was phenomenal for years.

 

[Jakey_John]

I wasn’t unhappy with the execution of the show but the lazy writing was atrocious. After all the cast was not shy in hiding their disappointment, and they pulled the show off anyway. Jon should have been the one to appoint his successor. He’s still the rightful king and he saved the world from tyranny. He should have killed Greyworm during their confrontation in the street too.

Similarly, if the plan was to make Bran the king the whole time the Whitewalker battle should have been last. It would have been much more suspenseful.

Ultimately what it looks like ended up happening is that GRRM doesn’t want to be remembered just for GOT and the season suffered for it.

 

[Jeffburgh]

I wasn’t unhappy with the execution of the show but the lazy writing was atrocious. After all the cast was not shy in hiding their disappointment, and they pulled the show off anyway. Jon should have been the one to appoint his successor. He’s still the rightful king and he saved the world from tyranny. He should have killed Greyworm during their confrontation in the street too.

Similarly, if the plan was to make Bran the king the whole time the Whitewalker battle should have been last. It would have been much more suspenseful.

Ultimately what it looks like ended up happening is that GRRM doesn’t want to be remembered just for GOT and the season suffered for it.

Yeah, I always thought the white walker issue should have been dealt with last.
Would have been a lot easier to have heroic ends to favored characters instead of spinning a dark turn on things with the Danny flip to crazy town to keep them alive.
Agree on Greyworm, too.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Finale was decent up until the midpoint. Everything afterwards was boring and relatively pointless. I know they have to set up the sequels but could have done with a little more substance at the end. A 2 hour episode with actual dialogue in the final 30 minutes for Arya and Jon would have been nice.

I agree, the Bran thing seemed forced and ridiculous given his character's storyline. And the Danerys switch to an evil madwoman was too quick and unbelievable.

She wasn’t evil.

She was misguided to think she was saving the world .

The Tyrian and Jon conversation laid that out.
Jon then pled with daeny to show mercy - to test if Tyrion was correct.

 

[thebadby2]

the whole final season fell flat on its ass after 7 stellar years of immersive plot and incredibly thorough character development.

Not one of the major characters' deaths in the final season came close to the kind of intense high drama and impact of the Red Wedding, the execution of Ned Stark, or Arya's execution of Little Finger. Even the death of Benjin Stark was more dramatic and moving than Dani's. Agree with Spanish Flea's comments 100%. I could spend all day offering specific criticisms of the last season and finale but the bottom line is it was a very disappointing end to a phenomenally good show. The first seven years of the show were masterful in thoroughly developing these complex characters and intricate plot, and in getting viewers to be invested heavily in them. The last season and finale just seemed cheap and lazy.

 

[mike412]

I think they condensed the final two years way too much. When you consider how long they spent in the first six years on character/plot, they tried to cram way too much into far too little time.

Look at how much time they devoted to establishing the degeneration and rebirth of Theon for example. They spent far more time illustrating Ramsey turning him into Reek than they did converting Dany from savior into mad mass murderer.

I suspect it was Martin who told them in general detail how the book will end, so they likely were stuck with Bran as King. I haven’t read the books, but from reading articles about the difference in Bran between the books and the movie, if they knew where this was heading, they did a disservice in treating his character like they did for the first seven seasons.

All that being said, I had no problem with how they wrapped everything else up, other than with the fact it was all too rushed. Sansa deserved to be Queen of the North; the North deserved its independence; Arya got to do what she always wanted to do; Sam and Sir Brienne are in positions they are well-suited for; Bronn proved that being a popular scoundrel can pay off in the end; although he didn’t look happy, Jon is where he was meant to be; Ghost is alive and kicking; and Drogon still lives...somewhere. Tyrion being the Hand is an issue. His advice for three seasons has been less than stellar, but his first council meeting was hopeful.

For me, the bottom line is that I am really going to miss the series. For 8 years it has been sometimes fun, sometimes horrifying but almost always exciting to watch. It served as a regular source of water cooler conversations in the office before I retired. Since then, the conversations have continued on social media. It is one of only two television programs Masha and I always watch together, as for the most parts our taste in television is very different. I watched Arya grew up and Sansa finally bloom. The characters became a part of my Sunday life. I will miss them.

 

[Jeffburgh]

I think they condensed the final two years way too much. When you consider how long they spent in the first six years on character/plot, they tried to cram way too much into far too little time.

Look at how much time they devoted to establishing the degeneration and rebirth of Theon for example. They spent far more time illustrating Ramsey turning him into Reek than they did converting Dany from savior into mad mass murderer.

I suspect it was Martin who told them in general detail how the book will end, so they likely were stuck with Bran as King. I haven’t read the books, but from reading articles about the difference in Bran between the books and the movie, if they knew where this was heading, they did a disservice in treating his character like they did for the first seven seasons.

All that being said, I had no problem with how they wrapped everything else up, other than with the fact it was all too rushed. Sansa deserved to be Queen of the North; the North deserved its independence; Arya got to do what she always wanted to do; Sam and Sir Brienne are in positions they are well-suited for; Bronn proved that being a popular scoundrel can pay off in the end; although he didn’t look happy, Jon is where he was meant to be; Ghost is alive and kicking; and Drogon still lives...somewhere. Tyrion being the Hand is an issue. His advice for three seasons has been less than stellar, but his first council meeting was hopeful.

For me, the bottom line is that I am really going to miss the series. For 8 years it has been sometimes fun, sometimes horrifying but almost always exciting to watch. It served as a regular source of water cooler conversations in the office before I retired. Since then, the conversations have continued on social media. It is one of only two television programs Masha and I always watch together, as for the most parts our taste in television is very different. I watched Arya grew up and Sansa finally bloom. The characters became a part of my Sunday life. I will miss them.

Pretty good homage ...

 

[CJsE]

To me, the ending was satisfactory. I went into it expecting nothing, because of the way the current season had been playing out, and walked away pretty indifferent rather than confused and annoyed as usual. All of the major plot points, I get and make sense to me. But the execution was rushed and poorly executed, as can be said for much of the final 2 seasons.

The Good:
- The time lapse transition shot of Tyrion lying on the floor was pretty good, no one spotted that his beard had grown and all assumed that he was being lead to his execution or about to get rescued by John for their big escape. The reveal at the Dragon Pit was surprising.

-The Brienne scene where she is editing Jaime's entry is well done and has tons of subtext. It closes their relationship and is a good "history is written by the victors" moment with her portrayals of events, that the crown and Westerlands are portrayed as the "good guys" even though she fought against the Lannisters and her faction alongside Dany.


The Bad:
-I get the North regaining its sovereignty, although I expected all of the other realms to do the same since they carefully ensured that each realm had a new high lord. Bronn in Highgarden, Gendry as a Baratheon, new Dornish Lord, Blackfish's son shown alive during the siege last season, Yara retaking the Iron Islands. I figured the unsullied and Dothraki would get the Crownlands and Dragonstone, while Tyrion, Davos, or Yara would get the Westerlands. But Sansa's speech was shallow and a huge missed opportunity.

-The dragon burning the throne
-Everything, just everything, surrounding Grey Worm
-The comedic beats were a little off-putting, especially the council scene
-Bronn as the royal accountant seemed like a plot device just to show he and Tyrion can still joke with each other
-Finding pristine Lannister corpses under rubble (Although as soon as he saw the light I got disgusted thinking that they took cover under Balerion's skull and survived). I think the idea that Dany and Co. never find out if Cersei survived would have played into her madness much better.

The Best - My prediction before the episode didn't come true. Where John/Arya kills Dany then disappears or is wounded escaping, there's a time lapse and everyone is wondering where he is to sit on the throne and the closing shot is him walking beyond the wall. I thought for sure we were getting a Dexter ending.

 

[thebadby2]

To me, the ending was satisfactory. I went into it expecting nothing, because of the way the current season had been playing out, and walked away pretty indifferent rather than confused and annoyed as usual. All of the major plot points, I get and make sense to me. But the execution was rushed and poorly executed, as can be said for much of the final 2 seasons.

The Good:
- The time lapse transition shot of Tyrion lying on the floor was pretty good, no one spotted that his beard had grown and all assumed that he was being lead to his execution or about to get rescued by John for their big escape. The reveal at the Dragon Pit was surprising.

-The Brienne scene where she is editing Jaime's entry is well done and has tons of subtext. It closes their relationship and is a good "history is written by the victors" moment with her portrayals of events, that the crown and Westerlands are portrayed as the "good guys" even though she fought against the Lannisters and her faction alongside Dany.


The Bad:
-I get the North regaining its sovereignty, although I expected all of the other realms to do the same since they carefully ensured that each realm had a new high lord. Bronn in Highgarden, Gendry as a Baratheon, new Dornish Lord, Blackfish's son shown alive during the siege last season, Yara retaking the Iron Islands. I figured the unsullied and Dothraki would get the Crownlands and Dragonstone, while Tyrion, Davos, or Yara would get the Westerlands. But Sansa's speech was shallow and a huge missed opportunity.

-The dragon burning the throne
-Everything, just everything, surrounding Grey Worm
-The comedic beats were a little off-putting, especially the council scene
-Bronn as the royal accountant seemed like a plot device just to show he and Tyrion can still joke with each other
-Finding pristine Lannister corpses under rubble (Although as soon as he saw the light I got disgusted thinking that they took cover under Balerion's skull and survived). I think the idea that Dany and Co. never find out if Cersei survived would have played into her madness much better.

The Best - My prediction before the episode didn't come true. Where John/Arya kills Dany then disappears or is wounded escaping, there's a time lapse and everyone is wondering where he is to sit on the throne and the closing shot is him walking beyond the wall. I thought for sure we were getting a Dexter ending.

How about in the last scene, some no-name northern lord that as far as I know has never made an appearance before, sitting looking serious and making decisions with the important remaining characters and being given a fairly substantial moment before being shushed by Sansa--in the last scene of an 8 year epic show. Whatever that was supposed to add to the show, it didn't work.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

agree, that scene and the Tyrian roundtable came up short. I'm guessing they were trying to convey the awkwardness of the first steps toward a democracy or something.

 

[CJsE]

How about in the last scene, some no-name northern lord that as far as I know has never made an appearance before, sitting looking serious and making decisions with the important remaining characters and being given a fairly substantial moment before being shushed by Sansa--in the last scene of an 8 year epic show. Whatever that was supposed to add to the show, it didn't work.

Edmure Tully? Son of the Blackfish, was the groom of the Red Wedding, Sansa’s Uncle, murderer of Juilius Caesar, Lord of Riverrun?

 

[Jeffburgh]

How about in the last scene, some no-name northern lord that as far as I know has never made an appearance before, sitting looking serious and making decisions with the important remaining characters and being given a fairly substantial moment before being shushed by Sansa--in the last scene of an 8 year epic show. Whatever that was supposed to add to the show, it didn't work.

Yeah, Edmure was an established character, look like he might have been in 11 or so episodes.
Actually a Tully, so a blood relative of Sansa's, and eminently dismissible.

 

[mbe 34]

Yeah, Edmure was an established character, look like he might have been in 11 or so episodes.
Actually a Tully, so a blood relative of Sansa's, and eminently dismissible.

The whole thing was pretty "rushed" and flawed.
Budget constraints usually matter.
Maybe they are planning so many spinoffs they just wanted to get this done?

I questioned Jon's decision to "kill" the woman he loved.
She didn't sound too deranged when they talked. The point was made they killed her Dragon and unprovoked - cut the head off her friend and confident.
Obviously it was overkill what she did to the city - but "War is Hell".
She wasn't perfect but to just kill her? Maybe she would've calmed down?

The council was just ridiculous. It didn't work.
At the first meeting of the King's advisors Sam brings out the record book of the war "A Song of Fire and Ice".
Shades of Bilbo Baggins' "There and Back Again". I half expected Hobbits to start showing up.

Wonder where the Dothraqi went?

 

[lilspainishflea]

The whole thing was pretty "rushed" and flawed.
Budget constraints usually matter.
Maybe they are planning so many spinoffs they just wanted to get this done?

I questioned Jon's decision to "kill" the woman he loved.
She didn't sound too deranged when they talked. The point was made they killed her Dragon and unprovoked - cut the head off her friend and confident.
Obviously it was overkill what she did to the city - but "War is Hell".
She wasn't perfect but to just kill her? Maybe she would've calmed down?

The council was just ridiculous. It didn't work.
At the first meeting of the King's advisors Sam brings out the record book of the war "A Song of Fire and Ice".
Shades of Bilbo Baggins' "There and Back Again". I half expected Hobbits to start showing up.

Wonder where the Dothraqi went?

It wasn't a budget issue. HBO and the cast have both said they could have done 10 seasons. Martin himself made similar comments. The rushed feeling is solely attributable to Benioff and Weiss. They're signed to do at least 1 new Disney Star Wars movie in 2022 so either they had to wrap up Game of Thrones, believed they had to, or just wanted to. And as a result, the show quality and fans suffered immensely.

 

[Jeffburgh]

The whole thing was pretty "rushed" and flawed.
Budget constraints usually matter.
Maybe they are planning so many spinoffs they just wanted to get this done?

I questioned Jon's decision to "kill" the woman he loved.
She didn't sound too deranged when they talked. The point was made they killed her Dragon and unprovoked - cut the head off her friend and confident.
Obviously it was overkill what she did to the city - but "War is Hell".
She wasn't perfect but to just kill her? Maybe she would've calmed down?

The council was just ridiculous. It didn't work.
At the first meeting of the King's advisors Sam brings out the record book of the war "A Song of Fire and Ice".
Shades of Bilbo Baggins' "There and Back Again". I half expected Hobbits to start showing up.

Wonder where the Dothraqi went?

I had the same thought about the Dothraqi, I am sure they are just hanging out and not rampaging or anything.

 

[thebadby2]

Edmure Tully? Son of the Blackfish, was the groom of the Red Wedding, Sansa’s Uncle, murderer of Juilius Caesar, Lord of Riverrun?

The point stands. He was a bit character and had no business in a closing scene for an epic show.

 

[thebadby2]

The whole thing was pretty "rushed" and flawed.
Budget constraints usually matter.
Maybe they are planning so many spinoffs they just wanted to get this done?

I questioned Jon's decision to "kill" the woman he loved.
She didn't sound too deranged when they talked. The point was made they killed her Dragon and unprovoked - cut the head off her friend and confident.
Obviously it was overkill what she did to the city - but "War is Hell".
She wasn't perfect but to just kill her? Maybe she would've calmed down?

The council was just ridiculous. It didn't work.
At the first meeting of the King's advisors Sam brings out the record book of the war "A Song of Fire and Ice".
Shades of Bilbo Baggins' "There and Back Again". I half expected Hobbits to start showing up.

Wonder where the Dothraqi went?

At the first meeting of the King's advisors Sam brings out the record book of the war "A Song of Fire and Ice".

That was patently ridiculous and a real cheapening of everything that preceded it over 8 seasons.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

The whole thing was pretty "rushed" and flawed.
Budget constraints usually matter.
Maybe they are planning so many spinoffs they just wanted to get this done?

I questioned Jon's decision to "kill" the woman he loved.
She didn't sound too deranged when they talked. The point was made they killed her Dragon and unprovoked - cut the head off her friend and confident.
Obviously it was overkill what she did to the city - but "War is Hell".
She wasn't perfect but to just kill her? Maybe she would've calmed down?

The council was just ridiculous. It didn't work.
At the first meeting of the King's advisors Sam brings out the record book of the war "A Song of Fire and Ice".
Shades of Bilbo Baggins' "There and Back Again". I half expected Hobbits to start showing up.

Wonder where the Dothraqi went?

Jon killed her because she made it clear she was going to do the same to the other kingdoms... and call it mercy .

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I think they condensed the final two years way too much. When you consider how long they spent in the first six years on character/plot, they tried to cram way too much into far too little time.

You actually have it kind of backwards. The only reason there were eight seasons and not SEVEN is because they realized they couldn't quite get everything in to a regular length seventh season so they actually ADDED a couple extra episodes and split the seventh season into a shorter seventh and eighth season. That's why each of the first six seasons had 10 episodes but the seventh season had seven and the eighth season had six. They actually made three MORE episodes than they originally planned.

If you think the ending seemed rushed, and in many ways I agree with that, imagine what it would have felt like if they had tried to wrap things up in three fewer episodes.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

My two biggest gripes are the pretty obvious ones. No way Jon Snow walks away from killing Dani. No way. Given that they did let him live I like the ending of him heading north with the free folk. But no way that happens.

And of course the whole ridiculous notion that the North "secedes from the Union" and yet they pick a Stark to be king. I mean you all realize that you just named as king someone who technically isn't even a citizen of the country you named him king of, don't you? If Bran is where they were going to go then the better choice would have been for Sansa to agree that the North stays in the kingdom now that they have given the North the respect is deserves by naming a Northerner king. Which still would have been dumb, but would have made more sense.

 

[mike412]

How about in the last scene, some no-name northern lord that as far as I know has never made an appearance before, sitting looking serious and making decisions with the important remaining characters and being given a fairly substantial moment before being shushed by Sansa--in the last scene of an 8 year epic show. Whatever that was supposed to add to the show, it didn't work.

Edmure Tully, the “no-name lord” has been in the show since Season 3. He was Caitlyn Stark’s brother and the Lord Of Riverrun. He appears in Season 3 as one of Robb Stark’s commanders. He was inept. Robb blasted him for disobeying an order, the result of which was the failure to surround and capture the Lannister army.

We get another taste of his ineptness in a funeral scene where the pyre of one Stark relative (I think Edmure’s father) is in a boat floating down the river. Edmure is supposed to shoot a burning arrow into it to light the pyre. He misses badly — twice. Blackfish, his uncle, grabs the bow from him, pushes him aside and fires a perfect shot lighting the pyre.

Later, when Robb backs out of the agreement to marry one of Walter Frey’s daughters, Edmure is his replacement. The Red Wedding is his marriage to her. Because he was family, Frey spared him but threw him in a dungeon.
The Freys took Riverrun, but Blackfish took it back from them. Then Jamie talked Edmure into going back and surrendering the castle in return for his freedom.

He clearly is portrayed as the most inept of the Stark/Tully clan. That is why his attempt to be named king is so laughable.

 

[thebadby2]

Edmure Tully, the “no-name lord” has been in the show since Season 3. He was Caitlyn Stark’s brother and the Lord Of Riverrun. He appears in Season 3 as one of Robb Stark’s commanders. He was inept. Robb blasted him for disobeying an order, the result of which was the failure to surround and capture the Lannister army.

We get another taste of his ineptness in a funeral scene where the pyre of one Stark relative (I think Edmure’s father) is in a boat floating down the river. Edmure is supposed to shoot a burning arrow into it to light the pyre. He misses badly — twice. Blackfish, his uncle, grabs the bow from him, pushes him aside and fires a perfect shot lighting the pyre.

Later, when Robb backs out of the agreement to marry one of Walter Frey’s daughters, Edmure is his replacement. The Red Wedding is his marriage to her. Because he was family, Frey spared him but threw him in a dungeon.
The Freys took Riverrun, but Blackfish took it back from them. Then Jamie talked Edmure into going back and surrendering the castle in return for his freedom.

He clearly is portrayed as the most inept of the Stark/Tully clan. That is why his attempt to be named king is so laughable.

Sorry. Just thought it was a very poor time to put a bit character-and that’s what he was over 8 seasons-in the spotlight at the end of this epic journey. At what important table making important decisions with important characters did he ever sit before? The attempt to interject some levity into a penultimate moment in the show via a C-list character fell flat for most. It was lame, to be charitable.

 

[BPKY]

Sorry. Just thought it was a very poor time to put a bit character-and that’s what he was over 8 seasons-in the spotlight at the end of this epic journey. At what important table making important decisions with important characters did he ever sit before? The attempt to interject some levity into a penultimate moment in the show via a C-list character fell flat for most. It was lame, to be charitable.

Agree. I get the effort to insert some comic relief, like Sam's book title and the joking when Sam brought up the idea of democracy. Like the entire season, just a total lack of writing talent and/or effort. They mailed it in and the show and fans deserved better. I always said from season one this is the best television of all time (my time anyhow) but this last season nixes that.

And FWIW, Bronn always said that Benioff was a twat.

 

[CJsE]

You actually have it kind of backwards. The only reason there were eight seasons and not SEVEN is because they realized they couldn't quite get everything in to a regular length seventh season so they actually ADDED a couple extra episodes and split the seventh season into a shorter seventh and eighth season. That's why each of the first six seasons had 10 episodes but the seventh season had seven and the eighth season had six. They actually made three MORE episodes than they originally planned.

If you think the ending seemed rushed, and in many ways I agree with that, imagine what it would have felt like if they had tried to wrap things up in three fewer episodes.

Both GRRM and HBOs former President of Programming have stated multiple times that they wanted 10 seasons, but that the show runners insisted on seven. This has been out there since the first season of the show, with HBO saying they hope it lasts 20 years and would run as long as Martin keeps writing. The show runners stating that "We always believed it was about 73 hours" whatever that means.

So yeah, they did technically make more episodes than the show-runners planned and part of that was because HBO pushed for it and they agreed to do a few more. But giving them a bunch of credit for that is like asking for gratitude for bringing someone an ice pack after punching them.

 

[BPKY]

Both GRRM and HBOs former President of Programming have stated multiple times that they wanted 10 seasons, but that the show runners insisted on seven. This has been out there since the first season of the show, with HBO saying they hope it lasts 20 years and would run as long as Martin keeps writing. The show runners stating that "We always believed it was about 73 hours" whatever that means.

So yeah, they did technically make more episodes than the show-runners planned and part of that was because HBO pushed for it and they agreed to do a few more. But giving them a bunch of credit for that is like asking for gratitude for bringing someone an ice pack after punching them.

That's a really good analogy.

 

[bobfree]

Just watched it blah.......

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Both GRRM and HBOs former President of Programming have stated multiple times that they wanted 10 seasons, but that the show runners insisted on seven. This has been out there since the first season of the show, with HBO saying they hope it lasts 20 years and would run as long as Martin keeps writing. The show runners stating that "We always believed it was about 73 hours" whatever that means.

So yeah, they did technically make more episodes than the show-runners planned and part of that was because HBO pushed for it and they agreed to do a few more. But giving them a bunch of credit for that is like asking for gratitude for bringing someone an ice pack after punching them.

I didn't say that they should get any credit for it. I'm simply saying that their original plan was for seven ten episode seasons. And then they started writing what would end up being season seven and realized that they weren't going to be able to get everything they wanted in the show in only ten more episodes. So they agreed to do three more, and HBO decided that a season of seven followed by a season of six was better for them than one season of 13.

The people running HBO wanted 10 seasons or 15 seasons or 20 seasons or whatever they could get for one reason, and one reason only. They made money by the boatloads whenever they aired the show. And Martin was more than happy to cash as many checks as HBO wanted to send his way. Not happy enough to actually write the story, mind you, but happy none the less.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

The biggest issues again were the "plot armor" that the series tried to avoid and speeding things along too quickly. Making the final act 12 episodes instead of 20 did a huge disservice to the series and to the fans.

1) Jon should have died after stabbing Dany. Seriously, Grey Worm goes from bloodlusty maniac executing prisoners in the street to imprisoning his hated rival after that guy killed his George Washington/Abe Lincoln/Jesus? It made no sense. Jon was devoted to duty, always. He knew what killing Dany meant. He did it to save hundreds of thousands of people from Dany. He should have either been killed by Drogon or Grey Worm.

2) Dany went from savior of Westeros to war criminal to aspiring tyrant to murdered in 3 episodes, the last 2 in the span of like 20 minutes. It was a complete 180 for a person that went from freeing tens of thousands of slaves in Essos and chaining her own children in a dungeon because they killed a SINGLE child to burning what might be the largest city in the world to the ground after it surrendered. I'm ok with them going there with her, but it definitely wasn't earned. The writers checked out and were ready to move on. Just a very disappointing end to a series that was phenomenal for years.

Wasn’t it foreshadowed, though?
Crucifying the masters of mereen
Burning people alive .

She’s always had dispassionate cruelty as her methods

 

[Farnox]

Wasn’t it foreshadowed, though?
Crucifying the masters of mereen
Burning people alive .

She’s always had dispassionate cruelty as her methods

The benevolent dictator. I'm a nice guy until you won't do what I say.
It was always what she thought was best for the people. That would be
I"m Queen.

 

[Ski11585]

Sorry. Just thought it was a very poor time to put a bit character-and that’s what he was over 8 seasons-in the spotlight at the end of this epic journey. At what important table making important decisions with important characters did he ever sit before? The attempt to interject some levity into a penultimate moment in the show via a C-list character fell flat for most. It was lame, to be charitable.

Agree. I get the effort to insert some comic relief, like Sam's book title and the joking when Sam brought up the idea of democracy. Like the entire season, just a total lack of writing talent and/or effort. They mailed it in and the show and fans deserved better. I always said from season one this is the best television of all time (my time anyhow) but this last season nixes that.

And FWIW, Bronn always said that Benioff was a twat.

I agree with both these points. I thought there were some good moments in the finale relative to the rest of the season, but also a lot of wasted time and tonally odd moments.

I interpreted the appearance of Edmure and Robert Arryn as "See, we didn't forget these guys existed."