Gregg Marshall and Wichita State
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here you go
I may be wrong but here goes..........Wichita has had a GREAT 3-4 year run..........you have a team that has 3 SENIOR guards . who have played A LOT since minute one in the program..... ...they are going to control games....... Cotton, VanFleet, Baker............. they are seriously a formidable opponent. Last year was their best shot with Early and they made a final four....but they are still good this year.............. but like Butler a couple years ago, they will always be an above average team, but they are still a midmajor........., but there is no way they can sustain it over 6-8-10 year periods....no way you can attract enough top level players.
He had two good recruiting classes that blossomed.........sometimes things come together................ and sometimes they don't.........they came together for him........... now he has to decide...........do this every 5-6 years for a couple year run.....or go to Texas and make 10 million dollars for 3 years.
Ask poster boy Gonzaga Mark Few..............still has never gone by Sweet 16 after all the big name recruits. after all the "top mid major" hype, after ESPN love, after "scheduling" RPI games, after getting higher seeds than their RPI showed they deserved. He does a nice job. Maybe he is a victim of his own success. But Gonzaga and Few are not the Cat's Meow that everyone makes them out to be. Maybe this is the year. And maybe Michigan State shuts them down. I'd be more inclined to go that way than the other.
I may be wrong but here goes..........Wichita has had a GREAT 3-4 year run..........you have a team that has 3 SENIOR guards . who have played A LOT since minute one in the program..... ...they are going to control games....... Cotton, VanFleet, Baker............. they are seriously a formidable opponent. Last year was their best shot with Early and they made a final four....but they are still good this year.............. but like Butler a couple years ago, they will always be an above average team, but they are still a midmajor........., but there is no way they can sustain it over 6-8-10 year periods....no way you can attract enough top level players.
He had two good recruiting classes that blossomed.........sometimes things come together................ and sometimes they don't.........they came together for him........... now he has to decide...........do this every 5-6 years for a couple year run.....or go to Texas and make 10 million dollars for 3 years.
Ask poster boy Gonzaga Mark Few..............still has never gone by Sweet 16 after all the big name recruits. after all the "top mid major" hype, after ESPN love, after "scheduling" RPI games, after getting higher seeds than their RPI showed they deserved. He does a nice job. Maybe he is a victim of his own success. But Gonzaga and Few are not the Cat's Meow that everyone makes them out to be. Maybe this is the year. And maybe Michigan State shuts them down. I'd be more inclined to go that way than the other.
They still need to win next week
They have made a few sweet 16's - never made an elite 8 under few.
They have made a few sweet 16's - never made an elite 8 under few.
To answer one of the questions, they have 1 Top 100 kid on their roster (Van Vleet).
They do a great job of mining the JUCO ranks, though, which makes sense considering all the schools of that type in Kansas.
It sounds like he's a candidate at Texas but some people there may favor Shaka Smart. Marshall has the reputation of being a first class douchebag, and they need money for a new basketball arena. If he struggles and alienates the fans it's a tough situation.
Texas operates a little differently than most.
They do a great job of mining the JUCO ranks, though, which makes sense considering all the schools of that type in Kansas.
It sounds like he's a candidate at Texas but some people there may favor Shaka Smart. Marshall has the reputation of being a first class douchebag, and they need money for a new basketball arena. If he struggles and alienates the fans it's a tough situation.
Texas operates a little differently than most.
Gonzaga Sweet 16
Dan Monson was their coach in 1999 - yes 1999 was when they went to Elite 8.
and then he went to Minnesota. He probably wishes he'd stayed at Gonzaga.
as for their 13 point lead........ oh 11 pt lead....they are playing what the 5th or 6th place team in the big 10..........
Iowa is no better than a ton of teams,, NC St, even Pitt, Miami, Fl State, Temple, teams that didn't even make the NCAA are comparable to Iowa.
Dan Monson was their coach in 1999 - yes 1999 was when they went to Elite 8.
and then he went to Minnesota. He probably wishes he'd stayed at Gonzaga.
as for their 13 point lead........ oh 11 pt lead....they are playing what the 5th or 6th place team in the big 10..........
Iowa is no better than a ton of teams,, NC St, even Pitt, Miami, Fl State, Temple, teams that didn't even make the NCAA are comparable to Iowa.
I definitely wouldn't undersell what Few has done at Gonzaga. You put him at a place like Arizona or UCLA out west and he's probably got multiple Final Fours and a National Championship or two under his belt.
What Few has done there is remarkable, he's a hell of a coach.
What Few has done there is remarkable, he's a hell of a coach.
Well we will disagree
You are assuming a lot. That the same recruits want to come to those places if he is the coach. Big If.
I have never seen where he is some great game day or in game adjustment coach. On the contrary, seems like he doesn't adjust.
Only 2 years back he had "his greatest team" Big Kelly Oleniak the one blown away by current Wichita State players, who were soph's then.
He has the benefit of playing, and building RPI even if he loses, while knowing his league blows and he'll still get in NCAA.
He has found a nice spot and played it right for his situation.
You are assuming a lot. That the same recruits want to come to those places if he is the coach. Big If.
I have never seen where he is some great game day or in game adjustment coach. On the contrary, seems like he doesn't adjust.
Only 2 years back he had "his greatest team" Big Kelly Oleniak the one blown away by current Wichita State players, who were soph's then.
He has the benefit of playing, and building RPI even if he loses, while knowing his league blows and he'll still get in NCAA.
He has found a nice spot and played it right for his situation.
While I tend to agree with you, you have to admit that the measure of a
college basketball coach is what he has done in March.
Sweet 16 means 2 tournament wins. With the seedlings they've had, that's not all that special.
Same thing with JD. While I think most of us believe he's a pretty damned good coach, until he does some damage in March, the naysayers are right.
Honestly I'd like to see him prove you--and me as well--right this year.
college basketball coach is what he has done in March.
Sweet 16 means 2 tournament wins. With the seedlings they've had, that's not all that special.
Same thing with JD. While I think most of us believe he's a pretty damned good coach, until he does some damage in March, the naysayers are right.
Honestly I'd like to see him prove you--and me as well--right this year.
and to take that further
if I would have been the coach at UCLA or Arizona at some point in the last 10 years - take away who recruited them - I would have gone to 1 or 2 final fours.
Just remember - Arizona with 7 or 8 future NBA players lost to East Tennessee State in a 1st round game.
Maybe Mark Few would have changed that and been better than Lute Olson????????????
Greg Dennis, Keith Jennings, Calvin Talford, Marty Story, Jerry Pelphrey.............
if I would have been the coach at UCLA or Arizona at some point in the last 10 years - take away who recruited them - I would have gone to 1 or 2 final fours.
Just remember - Arizona with 7 or 8 future NBA players lost to East Tennessee State in a 1st round game.
Maybe Mark Few would have changed that and been better than Lute Olson????????????
Greg Dennis, Keith Jennings, Calvin Talford, Marty Story, Jerry Pelphrey.............
Re: Well we will disagree
Those schools sell themselves. Few recruits to the level of his program at Gonzaga. Same as all those previously mentioned coaches did prior to jumping to their elite school. My guess is he'd be fine.
Sean Miller didn't recruit great at Xavier, Steve Alford was regarded as a horrible recruiter while at New Mexico, and Howland didn't do much at Pitt in terms of stars.
Those schools sell themselves. Few recruits to the level of his program at Gonzaga. Same as all those previously mentioned coaches did prior to jumping to their elite school. My guess is he'd be fine.
People on this board were up in arms when we lost to them in the tourney. I said they had more talent than us, and would have at least 1 guy from that squad get drafted and play in the NBA. Well, they proved that they were more talented by their Final 4 appearance and undefeated regular season last year. Cleanthony Early got drafted and is playing in the NBA, and I think Baker may someday make an NBA squad. Those of you that were completely wrong can man up at anytime. The best part was the one poster on here said he knew a scout that laughed at the notion that someone would get drafted from that team. LOL
Re: and to take that further
I think ETSU almost took out the #1 seed Oklahoma Sooners with Stacy King and Mookie Blaylock a year earlier.
WOW! How in the world are you able to name that many guys from that East Tennessee State team 25 years later?
I think ETSU almost took out the #1 seed Oklahoma Sooners with Stacy King and Mookie Blaylock a year earlier.
ETSU
I think the year they almost took down Oklahoma was when most of these guys were freshman. They actually had the lead late but were in foul trouble.....I think a primary ball handler when out and Oklahoma got a couple steals late.
It was the same year Princeton almost beat Georgetown..........which we have heard about 780 times, but you never hear about this one.
The Arizona beat down was when most of them were seniors I think.
One year Dennis was lost for the season early, and one year Talford who was a 6'4" leaper and all around nice player, broke his leg in their conference tournament.
Dennis had a brief cup of coffee in the NBA....6'9" guy who could step away and make a shot. Jennings played for more than a few years with Golden State.........small quick guard.
I think the year they almost took down Oklahoma was when most of these guys were freshman. They actually had the lead late but were in foul trouble.....I think a primary ball handler when out and Oklahoma got a couple steals late.
It was the same year Princeton almost beat Georgetown..........which we have heard about 780 times, but you never hear about this one.
The Arizona beat down was when most of them were seniors I think.
One year Dennis was lost for the season early, and one year Talford who was a 6'4" leaper and all around nice player, broke his leg in their conference tournament.
Dennis had a brief cup of coffee in the NBA....6'9" guy who could step away and make a shot. Jennings played for more than a few years with Golden State.........small quick guard.
Marshall has done a great job. Time for him to cash in......
his best guys are seniors. I think you can credit his coaching for their accomplishments, after all, he has done it for 3-4 years in a row, which means he's done it with a young team and an experienced team. hell, they lost to Kentucky by 2 last year or who knows how far they could have gone. Watching them play, you cna see why they're so good--they defend relentlessly, in your face, fighting over screens, hustling, moving their feet, and they are fundamentally strong. All 5 guys rebound and they are tenacious. Offensively, he has some guys with scorers mentalities and he lets them do their thing.
his best guys are seniors. I think you can credit his coaching for their accomplishments, after all, he has done it for 3-4 years in a row, which means he's done it with a young team and an experienced team. hell, they lost to Kentucky by 2 last year or who knows how far they could have gone. Watching them play, you cna see why they're so good--they defend relentlessly, in your face, fighting over screens, hustling, moving their feet, and they are fundamentally strong. All 5 guys rebound and they are tenacious. Offensively, he has some guys with scorers mentalities and he lets them do their thing.
Re: here you go
Let's stop minimalizing other programs success in order to feel better about our failures. I would take Gregg Marshall as a coach every day of the week over Jamie Dixon. He is simply a much better coach. No shame in that, he is a much better coach than all but about 8-10 guys. If that many.
Yeah, but when they blew us out, and they blew us out like we were Hampton or Bobby Mo, those "Senior" guards were Freshmen and Sophs.
Let's stop minimalizing other programs success in order to feel better about our failures. I would take Gregg Marshall as a coach every day of the week over Jamie Dixon. He is simply a much better coach. No shame in that, he is a much better coach than all but about 8-10 guys. If that many.
Re: here you go
Seems like they've been around forever............ Baker is a rs jr................... They are a good, good team.
I wasn't trying to minimize Marshall at all...............being realistic, it all came together for him these 3-4 years. They can be a good team but likely will take a step back every few years too.
He has to decide if he wants to grab his payday.
I guess I was trying to minimize Few............I don't think he and Gonzaga are all they are cracked up to be.
Seems like they've been around forever............ Baker is a rs jr................... They are a good, good team.
I wasn't trying to minimize Marshall at all...............being realistic, it all came together for him these 3-4 years. They can be a good team but likely will take a step back every few years too.
He has to decide if he wants to grab his payday.
I guess I was trying to minimize Few............I don't think he and Gonzaga are all they are cracked up to be.
Re: here you go
Both programs will now be playing during the second weekend. This is where Pitt has failed. Programs are made during the second weekend of the tournament, because everyone sees you. There are so many games the first weekend, that few teams get to be seen coast to coast. By the second weekend, there are far fewer games, and they are seen by most of the country. Every Elite 8 game is on by itself, and is seen coast to coast. These games are program makers, and Pitt has gotten there only once. How many people got to see Georgia, LSU, or Providence play? Plenty of people won't even remember that they were in the tournament. Many more eyes will be seeing the Hoopies, Gonzaga, and ND play this coming week.
The question for Wichita will be whether they can take advantage of this run to upgrade recruiting, and start bringing in 4 star players on a somewhat regular basis. They had a loaded team in the early 80's (Antoine Carr, Cliff Livingston, Xavier McDaniel), but couldn't maintain things. Gonzaga has been good for a long time now, and they are able to get in with some pretty good prospects now.
Both programs will now be playing during the second weekend. This is where Pitt has failed. Programs are made during the second weekend of the tournament, because everyone sees you. There are so many games the first weekend, that few teams get to be seen coast to coast. By the second weekend, there are far fewer games, and they are seen by most of the country. Every Elite 8 game is on by itself, and is seen coast to coast. These games are program makers, and Pitt has gotten there only once. How many people got to see Georgia, LSU, or Providence play? Plenty of people won't even remember that they were in the tournament. Many more eyes will be seeing the Hoopies, Gonzaga, and ND play this coming week.
Re: here you go
Very True, Very True.
Carr and Levingston together, that was a pair!
I am pretty sure they lost in an Elite 8 or at worst a Sweet 16 game to LSU that made the final four.
I think they beat L. Tech and Kark Malone that year too.
McDaniel - didn't he lead nation in scoring and rebounding one year? Or was he 1st in one, 2nd in the other?
Very True, Very True.
Carr and Levingston together, that was a pair!
I am pretty sure they lost in an Elite 8 or at worst a Sweet 16 game to LSU that made the final four.
I think they beat L. Tech and Kark Malone that year too.
McDaniel - didn't he lead nation in scoring and rebounding one year? Or was he 1st in one, 2nd in the other?
Re: here you go
Wow....A) I am old. B) How times have changed. Like I said, me and my buddies always heard of Bird, but until we saw that SI cover with him on it, we assumed he was some 6'9" black guy with the stylish 70's afro, not some guy who looked like Howdy Doody with a bad stache.
I am old enough to remember them. In fact, I think the first time I saw Larry Bird play was an NBC nationally televised game against Wichita State.
Wow....A) I am old. B) How times have changed. Like I said, me and my buddies always heard of Bird, but until we saw that SI cover with him on it, we assumed he was some 6'9" black guy with the stylish 70's afro, not some guy who looked like Howdy Doody with a bad stache.
Re: here you go
Wichita State's best players, Baker and Van Vleet, are juniors. They were freshmen when the Shockers went to the Final Four. The only seniors on this year's team are Cotton and Carter. Both of them were 2-star recruits coming out of high school, as were Wessel and Baker. I'd say Marshall is indeed coaching them up.
Wichita State's best players, Baker and Van Vleet, are juniors. They were freshmen when the Shockers went to the Final Four. The only seniors on this year's team are Cotton and Carter. Both of them were 2-star recruits coming out of high school, as were Wessel and Baker. I'd say Marshall is indeed coaching them up.
Re: here you go
Here's the hype Gonzaga has gotten over the years....I'm at a sport bar yesterday watching the game and I overhear a dude telling his table when someone asked who Gonzaga was; "they were a 16 seed 5 years ago that made the Final Four, and they are now a 2 seed. They have come a long way."
That's what Monson's run did for them. Few has been able to get better players, win a bunch of game, get great seeds, but has not cashed in on the post season success Monson started: 5 Sweet 16s in 16 years. Never made it past the Sweet 16. Ask most college basketball fans how far Few has made it, and I bet they think his NCAA record is MUCH better. They have been the darling since Monson took them to the Elite 8 in 1999. Perception is a bitch!
But to answer that dope in the bar....they were a 10 seed in 1999 that made it to the Elite 8. Monson bolted to Minnesota the next year and fell on his face. My father-in-law is a Minnesota grad and was not pleased with his record.
Here's the hype Gonzaga has gotten over the years....I'm at a sport bar yesterday watching the game and I overhear a dude telling his table when someone asked who Gonzaga was; "they were a 16 seed 5 years ago that made the Final Four, and they are now a 2 seed. They have come a long way."
That's what Monson's run did for them. Few has been able to get better players, win a bunch of game, get great seeds, but has not cashed in on the post season success Monson started: 5 Sweet 16s in 16 years. Never made it past the Sweet 16. Ask most college basketball fans how far Few has made it, and I bet they think his NCAA record is MUCH better. They have been the darling since Monson took them to the Elite 8 in 1999. Perception is a bitch!
But to answer that dope in the bar....they were a 10 seed in 1999 that made it to the Elite 8. Monson bolted to Minnesota the next year and fell on his face. My father-in-law is a Minnesota grad and was not pleased with his record.
Re: here you go
So, it is just not "experience" that is carrying this team.
Marshall is one of the 10 best coaches in the country. If I am Texas, I would throw the $$$ at him. I have heard Alabama wants to, but if I am Marshall, I don't touch that job.
If I am Okie State, or Indiana, I would think hard about getting him. If I am Marshall, I am waiting for my shot, Texas would be the job.
Yeah that was my point. Those who are dismissing their and Marshall's success by having a bunch of Sr's, I remember some of these guys were pretty prominent when they rolled us as Fr and Sophs.
So, it is just not "experience" that is carrying this team.
Marshall is one of the 10 best coaches in the country. If I am Texas, I would throw the $$$ at him. I have heard Alabama wants to, but if I am Marshall, I don't touch that job.
If I am Okie State, or Indiana, I would think hard about getting him. If I am Marshall, I am waiting for my shot, Texas would be the job.
Re: here you go
Given the Longhorns' resources, Marshall would be able to regularly make deep runs in the NCAA tournament, and possibly compete or national championships. It would also elevate Texas' basketball rivalry with Kansas, which would be very good for he league. It seems like a perfect fit.
Then again, maybe Marshall just likes it where he is. That's hard to believe though, since he was supposedly interested in the Tennessee job a short while back. Texas is certainly a better job than Tennessee, not to mention Alabama. In addition to paying great, it could help Marshall build a legacy as a Hall of Fame coach.
I agree with you re Marshall and Texas. And it could happen. Rick Barnes makes $2.5 million on a contract that runs through 2019. However, his buyout is just $1.5 million if he's fired by April 1, and $1.75 million if he's let go after that. That's pocket change for a school like Texas. Despite Barnes' recruiting success, the Longhorns haven't gotten past the Round of 32 in eight years. Perhaps it's time to make a change, especially since the entire Big 12 underperformed in this year's tourney.
Given the Longhorns' resources, Marshall would be able to regularly make deep runs in the NCAA tournament, and possibly compete or national championships. It would also elevate Texas' basketball rivalry with Kansas, which would be very good for he league. It seems like a perfect fit.
Then again, maybe Marshall just likes it where he is. That's hard to believe though, since he was supposedly interested in the Tennessee job a short while back. Texas is certainly a better job than Tennessee, not to mention Alabama. In addition to paying great, it could help Marshall build a legacy as a Hall of Fame coach.
