ADVERTISEMENT

Jorge, Dunn, Cummings, Corhen, Fede

Sean Miller Fan

All P I T T !
Oct 30, 2001
71,648
23,409
113
While I dont want to count this team out, the Vegas odds of making the NCAAT at this point are long and when it comes down to it, I think it comes down to the misevaluation of the following 5 players.

Corhen/Fede - Although I posted on here that I was concerned about Corhen's rebounding numbers, I liked his offense and trusted Capel's analysis that his lack of rebounding was the result of FSU switching 1 through 5. Fede had a bad year and if given the choice last Spring, I would have picked Corhen. However, we were both wrong. Corhen does give you some offense and can do some things that Fede and a lot of 5's can't but he is very possibly the worst rebounding Center in the P5. Not that Fede is DeJuan Blair but I do believe that the overall offense/defensive/rebounding contributions of Fede would have been greater than Corhen. To that end, continuing to throw Corhen out there instead of GDG, when he struggles so bad on the glass does not give the team the best chance to win.

- Jorge - the kid has to play. He is shooting an eye-popping 58% from 3 for a team who can't shoot. I understand the concern is his defense but nobody on this team plays defense. This team is crying out for a floor-spacer. Jorge has to play extended minutes. Unfortunately, at this point, even if he does get more time, it's probably too late.

Dunn/Cummings - Before the free agency era, a kid like Cummings would get meaningful minutes as a freshman. But, nowadays, coaches prefer to have that senior transfer and I dont blame them. I liked the Dunn acquisition. You get that old vet who gives you some offensive punch. It's hard to forecast how someone fits into the rotation but it just seems like the guard combination of Lowe/Leggett/Dunn are less than the sum of its parts. They are 3 good offensive players but they are all "shot-first" players.....and a little like Johnson, McGowens, Toney. I bring up Bradin Cummings because although he, too, is a shot-first player, this team would have the same record if Cummings was getting Dunn's minutes but the ceiling for Cummings is much higher so maybe by February, he would have greatly improved. Now, as it stands, he will probably return as a sophomore with little experience. As funny as this sounds, I wonder if this team would have been better off with Jeffress starting at the 3 over Dunn. Someone who will move the ball, cut, rebound, defend. This season is looking too much like the Johnson/McGowens/Toney era. The difference is that these are all good kids who are trying their best. That wasn't true during for Johnson/McGowens/Toney.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TreesHero
Cummings had provided little, Amsel nothing.
Other than bad defense.
I think Cummings once he gets stronger will be very good .
He’s o rematched right now
Amsal is proving the flier was just that.
He is emergency depth only
 
While I dont want to count this team out, the Vegas odds of making the NCAAT at this point are long and I think when it comes down to it, I think it comes down to the misevaluation of the following 5 players.

Corhen/Fede - Although I posted on here that I was concerned about Corhen's rebounding numbers, I liked his offense and trusted Capel's analysis that his lack of rebounding was the result of FSU switching 1 through 5. Fede had a bad year and if given the choice last Spring, I would have picked Corhen. However, we were both wrong. Corhen does give you some offense and can do some things that Fede and a lot of 5's can't but he is very possibly the worst rebounding Center in the P5. Not that Fede is DeJuan Blair but I do believe that the overall offense/defensive/rebounding contributions of Fede would have been greater than Corhen. To that end, continuing to throw Corhen out there instead of GDG, when he struggles so bad on the glass does not give the team the best chance to win.

- Jorge - the kid has to play. He is shooting an eye-popping 58% from 3 for a team who can't shoot. I understand the concern is his defense but nobody on this team plays defense. This team is crying out for a floor-spacer. Jorge has to play extended minutes. Unfortunately, at this point, even if he does get more time, it's probably too late.

Dunn/Cummings - Before the free agency era, a kid like Cummings would get meaningful minutes as a freshman. But, nowadays, coaches prefer to have that senior transfer and I dont blame them. I liked the Dunn acquisition. You get that old vet who gives you some offensive punch. It's hard to forecast how someone fits into the rotation but it just seems like the guard combination of Lowe/Leggett/Dunn are less than the sum of its parts. They are 3 good offensive players but they are all "shot-first" players.....and little like Johnson, McGowens, Toney. I bring up Bradin Cummings because although he, too, is a shot-first player, this team would have the same record if Cummings was getting Dunn's minutes but the ceiling for Cummings is much higher so maybe by February, he would have greatly improved. Now, as it stands, he will probably return as a sophomore with little experience. As funny as this sounds, I wonder if this team would have been better off with Jeffress starting at the 3 over Dunn. Someone who will move the ball, cut, rebound, defend. This season is looking too much like the Johnson/McGowens/Toney era. The difference is that these are all good kids who are trying their best. That wasn't true during for Johnson/McGowens/Toney.
Are they really trying their best ? Are they good kids ?
I’m seeing a total lack of effort and shitty attitudes .

Like those teams, the best two players don’t want to be coached or play as a team .
They want highlight shots to market their pro potential.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pittisit4me
Other than bad defense.
I think Cummings once he gets stronger will be very good .
He’s o rematched right now
Amsal is proving the flier was just that.
He is emergency depth only

Freshmen typically aren't good defenders for the primary reason that they've never played it. No one plays D in AAU and I didn't watch Lincoln Park but I am guessing that very little effort on D needed to be played to beat Mohawk. So it takes time. However, nobody on this team can defend. That's part of my point in playing the shooter (Jorge) and the young kid. We are losing every game anyway. We haven't found the right lineup and it can be said that we are 2-6 since Dunn came back. It isn't fair to put all the blame on him. I think he's a good player but those 3 together hasn't worked.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jctrack
Our big problem is defensive rebounding. Cam Corhen's defensive rebounding percentage is 13.9. Fede Federiko's is 14.4. His two years at Pitt were 13.5 and 15.7.

Relatively speaking, Federiko is a much better offensive rebounder than a defensive one. In fact right now he's 5th in the P5 in offensive rebounding percentage. And hey, we could use some more offensive rebounding. But like I said, that's not really the problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TreesHero
I don’t disagree with any of this. Pretty solid analysis.
 
Are they really trying their best ? Are they good kids ?
I’m seeing a total lack of effort and shitty attitudes .

Like those teams, the best two players don’t want to be coached or play as a team .
They want highlight shots to market their pro potential.

Yes, these are good kids. The lack of defense doesn't mean they are bad kids. Sometimes, players just aren't good defensive players. And as for Lowe/Leggett/Dunn going 1 on 1 a lot. That's the offense. Bub did it. Burton did it. The difference is that those teams had Blake to kick to. Also having a true PG in Nelly was vitally important. I think this team would have been better with a Nelly-type at PG and then Lowe at the 2.
 
While I dont want to count this team out, the Vegas odds of making the NCAAT at this point are long and when it comes down to it, I think it comes down to the misevaluation of the following 5 players.

Corhen/Fede - Although I posted on here that I was concerned about Corhen's rebounding numbers, I liked his offense and trusted Capel's analysis that his lack of rebounding was the result of FSU switching 1 through 5. Fede had a bad year and if given the choice last Spring, I would have picked Corhen. However, we were both wrong. Corhen does give you some offense and can do some things that Fede and a lot of 5's can't but he is very possibly the worst rebounding Center in the P5. Not that Fede is DeJuan Blair but I do believe that the overall offense/defensive/rebounding contributions of Fede would have been greater than Corhen. To that end, continuing to throw Corhen out there instead of GDG, when he struggles so bad on the glass does not give the team the best chance to win.

- Jorge - the kid has to play. He is shooting an eye-popping 58% from 3 for a team who can't shoot. I understand the concern is his defense but nobody on this team plays defense. This team is crying out for a floor-spacer. Jorge has to play extended minutes. Unfortunately, at this point, even if he does get more time, it's probably too late.

Dunn/Cummings - Before the free agency era, a kid like Cummings would get meaningful minutes as a freshman. But, nowadays, coaches prefer to have that senior transfer and I dont blame them. I liked the Dunn acquisition. You get that old vet who gives you some offensive punch. It's hard to forecast how someone fits into the rotation but it just seems like the guard combination of Lowe/Leggett/Dunn are less than the sum of its parts. They are 3 good offensive players but they are all "shot-first" players.....and a little like Johnson, McGowens, Toney. I bring up Bradin Cummings because although he, too, is a shot-first player, this team would have the same record if Cummings was getting Dunn's minutes but the ceiling for Cummings is much higher so maybe by February, he would have greatly improved. Now, as it stands, he will probably return as a sophomore with little experience. As funny as this sounds, I wonder if this team would have been better off with Jeffress starting at the 3 over Dunn. Someone who will move the ball, cut, rebound, defend. This season is looking too much like the Johnson/McGowens/Toney era. The difference is that these are all good kids who are trying their best. That wasn't true during for Johnson/McGowens/Toney.
Do you really think they were trying their best against Virginia? If that was their best, I'd hate to see them when they are a little off.
 
Yes, these are good kids. The lack of defense doesn't mean they are bad kids. Sometimes, players just aren't good defensive players. And as for Lowe/Leggett/Dunn going 1 on 1 a lot. That's the offense. Bub did it. Burton did it. The difference is that those teams had Blake to kick to. Also having a true PG in Nelly was vitally important. I think this team would have been better with a Nelly-type at PG and then Lowe at the 2.
Their bad defense is absolutely based on lack of effort
Lowe is the worst offender of making “business decisions” when to actually defend
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pittisit4me
Do you really think they were trying their best against Virginia? If that was their best, I'd hate to see them when they are a little off.
There are occurrences where athletes quit on their team or coach , but playing poorly is not the same as not giving it your best .
 
There are occurrences where athletes quit on their team or coach , but playing poorly is not the same as not giving it your best .
I understand the difference. Having said that, and as I pointed out in the Virginia game thread, there is a reason that opposing teams shoot well above their season averages against us. If you can't see that is a problem then I don't know what to tell you. Hint: it is because we are lazy and don't have the desire it takes to get stops. I have seen our team defend well for short stretches, but it doesn't last, so I know we are capable. These kids just won't invest what is needed to win at this level. They may be good kids, but, I question their competitiveness. The object of the game is winning, and they don't empty the tank out there to get it done. Rebounding and battling for loose balls are all about desire, and this team's failures in those areas is proof they don't give their all.
 
Their bad defense is absolutely based on lack of effort
Lowe is the worst offender of making “business decisions” when to actually defend
The laziness on some plays from every player should get them benched, but it hasn't happened until a little bit last game. Sometimes the message is more important than the outcome of the game.

As the bench got shorter, these problems got worse. They know there's no repercussion to their play. It's 100% on the coaches.
 
there is a reason that opposing teams shoot well above their season averages against us. If you can't see that is a problem then I don't know what to tell you. Hint: it is because we are lazy and don't have the desire it takes to get stops.


There certainly is a problem.

And a large part of the problem is that we have our weak side defenders cheat to the middle and look to double at the basket when the ball is either thrown or dribbled into the post. Which leaves their man wide open for a kick out.

And that, of course, has nothing at all to do with laziness or desire.
 
There are occurrences where athletes quit on their team or coach , but playing poorly is not the same as not giving it your best .
They didn’t even attempt to defend from the tip to the final whistle .
Who are you gaslighting ?
uva is a terrible rebounding team and destroyed us .
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pittisit4me
The laziness on some plays from every player should get them benched, but it hasn't happened until a little bit last game. Sometimes the message is more important than the outcome of the game.

As the bench got shorter, these problems got worse. They know there's no repercussion to their play. It's 100% on the coaches.
Yep-
In the game thread I called for benching everyone after the 12 min timeout.
But Capel didn’t have the guys - so he only did a half measure way to late to matter
 
There certainly is a problem.

And a large part of the problem is that we have our weak side defenders cheat to the middle and look to double at the basket when the ball is either thrown or dribbled into the post. Which leaves their man wide open for a kick out.

And that, of course, has nothing at all to do with laziness or desire.
No doubt -
The sag is by design and it’s perpetually infuriating!!
 
Fede still sucks. Just because he gets minute on Texas Tech is more an indictment against Texas Tech. Corhen would make Tech a better team.

Fede recent stats
28 mins 8 pts 4 boards
21 mins 1 pt 6 boards
29 mins 4 pts 6 boards

Tech won all 3 games, 2 by double digits. Im sure that extra board or two was the difference.

Season wise
2.7 OR 2.7 DR 5.4 rebounds
46.3% FT 6.9 pts ppg

Corhen
2.0 OR 3.5DR 5.5 rebounds
66% FT and 10.5 ppg
That extra board isn’t helping Pitt win games. Both players can suck, but Fede isn’t magically making this years team better. If anything, he is a guaranteed turnover on a front end one and one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Warthog
people comment as if many people want to go back to Fede, that isn't my position or I think practically anyone's, it's more that if you're replacing and spending to do it that it should be an actual upgrade to in fact help the team

maybe otherwise Pitt should've kept him around and platooned situationally to strengths, but frankly neither seems worth having to play big minutes which obviously Corhen has

overall I think team play and attitude is Pitt's problem and it shows on both ends and the type of offense Capel "employs" leads to the utter lack of cohesion and consistently inconsistent effort by all the "stars" and not made up for by the role players

I sense Corhen CAN play some defense as he does in certain stretches and somewhat consistently with switches staying in front of smaller kids, I know Fede could not shoot the ball, often couldn't finish but at least ran the floor and was decent overall on defense rebounding and at the rim

no very good team should rely on either but should expect max effort, one might have given that
 
There certainly is a problem.

And a large part of the problem is that we have our weak side defenders cheat to the middle and look to double at the basket when the ball is either thrown or dribbled into the post. Which leaves their man wide open for a kick out.

And that, of course, has nothing at all to do with laziness or desire.

Given how slow we are on rotations, I dont understand why we are still helping off shooters to prevent drives to the basket. I'd rather see if they can finish in the lane than leaving open shooters. We are 13th in the ACC in 3 point defense and it's because we are leaving guys wide open off of help.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pittisit4me
Fede still sucks. Just because he gets minute on Texas Tech is more an indictment against Texas Tech. Corhen would make Tech a better team.

Fede recent stats
28 mins 8 pts 4 boards
21 mins 1 pt 6 boards
29 mins 4 pts 6 boards

Tech won all 3 games, 2 by double digits. Im sure that extra board or two was the difference.

Season wise
2.7 OR 2.7 DR 5.4 rebounds
46.3% FT 6.9 pts ppg

Corhen
2.0 OR 3.5DR 5.5 rebounds
66% FT and 10.5 ppg
That extra board isn’t helping Pitt win games. Both players can suck, but Fede isn’t magically making this years team better. If anything, he is a guaranteed turnover on a front end one and one.

Fede plays 7 minutes less than Corhen and yes, that extra rebound or 2 might be worth 2 more wins.
 
Fede plays 7 minutes less than Corhen and yes, that extra rebound or 2 might be worth 2 more wins.
Last 3 games Fede 78 minutes 16 boards 13 pts
Last 3 games Corhen 71 mins 10 boards 27 pts
So 6 boards =12 pts, cam still net positive over Fede

Fede 11 fouls
Corhen 8 fouls
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT