No one is comparing him to Crosby. But to say he is not a superstar in Pittsburgh is absurd.
Has there been a more likable superstar in Pittsburgh than Sid Crosby ?
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Not only are you a little snowflake for having me blocked, you’re also a total ****ing idiot. No, McCutchen doesn’t quite compare to Crosby. But he was a superstar on a team that draws more fans than crosby’s team. If that’s racist, oh well.
from 2012 to 2016, we were selling out most weekend series so yeah. of course im cherry picking the best 4 years lol..
i guess if you went by a metric like "% of capacity" i'd guess no where near. if you went by just avg home attendance, for that decade, im thinking the pirates got the edge, despite playing in a venue that is twice as large..
Stop comparing Cutch to Sid. Sid won 3 Cups and how many MVP TROPHIES! End of discussion
Irrelevant. They are both superstars in the modern Pittsburgh sports scene. So is TJ Watt.
So I asked chatgpt to find guys with comparable stats who are in the HOF. Raines is the closest then maybe Evans. Rice and Brock were legends for different reasons.
So next question, if your not a HOF candidate does that qualify you as a SUPER star?
- Tim Raines: He had a career batting average of .294 and hit 170 home runs. While his home run total is lower, he is known for his on-base percentage and base-stealing ability.
- Lou Brock: With a career batting average of .293 and 149 home runs, Brock is celebrated for his speed and base-running skills, as well as his influence in the game.
- Jim Rice: He had a career batting average of .298 and hit 382 home runs. Rice's power numbers are higher, but he is often noted for his ability to hit in clutch situations.
- Dwight Evans: His career average was .272, and he hit 385 home runs. Evans is recognized for his all-around play and defensive skills.
i think cutch is a superstar, locally speaking. Sid is a super star on a national (well on a global actually) level. and damn you for making me agree with jtown on anything...
Jtown, you better give me a laughing emoji on this or else..
Never thought a SUPER start was just a great local player........especially for the sad sack Pirates. But yeah for local baseball Cutch is a super star. I guess the equivalent in Hockey would be Jagr and maybe in Football hmmmm cant think of a non HOFer who was really good for the Steelers.
i think there are many examples of Cutch with the steelers. i think Hines Ward is a perfect comparison. Not really Hall of fame worthy, pretty much an after thought nationally but a very good all around player and well thought of locally..
NO, i want the laughing emoji.. dont you dare "like" this..
Despite some of the recent additions, the baseball hall of fame is quite selective
The irony being the baseball HOF is by far the most selective, while simultaneously missing some of the games best players cuz baseball writer’s like the smell of their own farts
You know that really isn't true, don't you?
In Clemente's first two post seasons, the 60 World Series and the 70 NL Championship series, he hit a combined 12-43, .279, with 0 doubles, 0 triples, 0 home runs and 0 walks. So a .279/.279/.279 slash line. That's really bad. In the 71 NCLS he did hit .333, but again that was all singles, no extra base hits at all, and one walk. Then he was outstanding in the 71 Series and was pretty good in the 72 NLCS as well.
On the other hand, in the 70 NLCS Stargell's slash line was .500/.538/.583. He followed that up by being absolutely awful in the 71 NLCS and was about as good in the WS that year as Clemente was in 60. And he was awful again in the 72 NLCS. Then in the 74 NLCS he slashed .400/.438/.800. Which is, of course, really good. And then in the 75 NLCS he was pretty bad again. And then in the 79 NLCS he slashed .455/.571/1.182 (I'd have to look, but that might be the best playoff series any Pirates' batter has ever had), and followed that up with .400/.375/.833 in the WS.
For their careers, Clemente's post season slash line was .318/.354/.449. Stargell's was .278/.359/.511. Clemente had seven total extra base hits in his 26 post season games. Stargell had seven total extra base hits in the 79 World Series alone.
Well it was before my time but both did a whole hell if a lot better in the post season then Barry bonds did.
They both had good post seasons and bad ones. It's almost like a sample size of as small as three games isn't really the best way to judge baseball players.
Bonds actually did have some nice post season series. For example in 2002, the NLDS .294/.409/.824, the NLCS .273/.591/.727, and the World Series .471/.700/1.294. I mean a .700 obp in the World Series along with four home runs to help make his slugging pct 1.294, that is really, really good. He would have clearly been the series MVP if the three guys who started two games each for them in that series didn't end up with eras of 5.23, 10.13 and 14.29.
I agree with everything you stated. To me it was Clemente’s overall play. He was a better outfielder than Stargell but Stargell was an excellent OF in own right. Add in Clemente stolen bases etc. plus I’m biased because Clemente was my favorite player when I was growing up.
At the beginning Stargell was pretty good in the outfield. But as he grew larger his defensive play in the outfield declined.
Ok but then besides Sid, Mario, there are no superstars from Pittsburgh.
Ben wasn’t a superstar, was always 3rd or worse qb in his prime. Troy wasn’t always behind Ed Reed.
Ben and Troy were still household names nationwide. Cutch was essentially Farmer Ted (king of the dipshits) locally because he was a good baseball player here. He had an MVP season here and that makes him relevant in pirate history I suppose. But in the grand scheme of things he’s got a little ham and egger in him. He’s not even Geno Malkin locally. He’s not Jagr. Maybe he’s Ron Francis. Which is far from Mario or Sid.
Maybe he’s TJ Watt. That still puts him in a different universe than Sid or Mario.
lol. Ben was always 4th or 5th best qb in league even in his prime. He was known nationally because nfl has more fans nationally. And because he raped two girls lol. People in San Diego know who Kenny Pickett is so name recognition is irrelevent.
Geno gets boo’d for about the last 3 years from die hard pens fans. I actually like him but I’m in te minority.
You obviously aren’t a baseball fan, that shows with your post. That’s fine, it’s your preference. Some people like soccer, some like baseball. We will agree to disagree.
FYI, Malkin isn’t even in the same category as Ron Francis. He has about 500 more points than Malkin, 50 more goals and 200 more assists than Malkin.
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My feelings on baseball not withstanding, it’s not a baseball town. People don’t care about the pirates. And because of that Cutch is considerably less popular that Sid and Mario. Additionally he only had a run of a few years here and won nothing, compared to two guys who won everything and will forever be icons in this town. TJ watt is probably a good comparison if he were traded today and played several years elsewhere while winning no playoff games in black and gold. And putting watt in a conversation with Sid and Mario is criminal.
If nutting puts a respectable roster together, this city would go nuts for the pirates. We saw it 10 years ago. Absolutely nuts. Especially with the Steelers being down for the last few years.
Thus is absolutely a baseball city, if we had any kind of team over the last 30 years. I’d go so far as to say that if the pirates had ownership like the Rooneys, the pirates would be bigger than the Steelers.
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Mario is way ahead of Clemente, it’s not even close.
Clemente’s status in this city grew post humously. Great player but many fans and local media treated him badly while he played, mostly out of racism.
Before my time but I’ve heard a few people like mark Madden talk about how he was treated by the media. Openly mocked and ridiculed for his lack of English even though it was a second language.
Only after he died did he become this beloved figure.
Mario is #1 and everyone including Joe Greene are a very distant second.
The media in the 60’s absolutely mocked Clemente. Clemente would tell the media how his neck hurt, and if he could get a good night’s sleep….. plus Clemente was very prideful of his ethnicity and the media took as being arrogant.
I pretty much agree McCutchen is just a big fish in a small pond here, but what baseball players are superstars? I'm not talking just relative to their own sport or based on performance solely, but someone who transcends the game. Mike Trout is probably one of the best 20-25 players to ever play a sport that's been around for 150+ years, and the vast, vast majority of Americans wouldn't be able to pick him out of a lineup.
i feel like we are debating two different arguments here. FK is debating on "Superstar" status and im focused on "lovability from the fans"..
Those are two different arguments. Cutch was a very good baseball player. Sid was the best hockey player on the planet for over a decade, as was Mario. So im not saying Cutch was in the same universe as some of these guys mentioned on "success level" or talent level..
I was more focused on just how the city embraced him. Just look at how the fans reacted to him on his first trip back to PNC after the trade.
Yeah it’s a delicate argument. Mario and Sid’s place in the game seems to be an underlying contributor to the discussion and I’m trying to tread lightly around it because we are talking about likability/popularity. Or maybe likability and popularity are two slightly different things? But their performance certainly correlates to likability.
Cutch is an endearing guy. We all like him and our provincial nature in this town has us liking him even more because he’s embraced this place as his home and wants to raise his family here. Sid will probably leave likely to rarely be heard from again.
I’ve never been a Sid guy. I’ve always been drawn to Geno more, but Geno’s shorter prime and drop in play has impacted his overall popularity here IMO. So I have no bias here. I just know how the local yocal hoi polloi in this town think.
Put Ben and Cutch in a likability contest locally, and I’d really be scared to see the results because Cutch is an honorable man and Ben is a scumbag. The fact that they are probably really close speaks to Cutch’s overall gravitas here. Probably because he’s a pirate.
yeah, baseball is a different animal. extremely tough to appeal on a national level compared to other sports, especially football..
we all know ohtani of course, even Aaron Judge. but other than that, who is widely known by the average sports fan in this country. that's 2. you really think people care or follow Mookie Betts, Juan Soto, Freddie Freeman? And those are top 10 guys, top 5 guys in the league right now.. Gunnar Henderson lol?
Reading this thread, I think it's safe to say that a player who was a superstar in his day may not translate as well to today. The way the games are played and what skills are more valued can change how we perceive players.
Not denying what you said but I do know that clemete was fairly aloof / introverted so that didn’t help with the media
Two Pitt players Tony Dorsett and Danny Marino. Two local guys who made Pitt the center of college football for 10 years.
I saw both guys play and they were incredible players and they seemed like decent guys as well.
I saw both guys play and they were incredible players and they seemed like decent guys as well.
