No...he was the perfect QB to run that system. You put him a drop back style, and well we saw in the NFL.
Heisman Trophy, one of the most legit awards IMO
- Thread starter Pitt79
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No...he was the perfect QB to run that system. You put him a drop back style, and well we saw in the NFL.
14 Worst Recent Winners
Gino Torretta - 1 game with the Vikes and 1 game with the Seahawks
Jason White - quit early weak knees
Eric Crouch - Rams played zero snaps, bounced around NFL & Canadian FB
Ty Dietmer - Mostly bounced around as a backup
Andre Ware - 6 games with Lions, bounced around NFL & Canadian FB
Chris Weinke-SF
Ron Dayne - Giants
Danny Wuerffel - Saints
Rashaan Salaam - Bears
Matt Leinert - Cards
Troy Smith - SF
Tim Tebow - Jets
RGII - Washington
Manziel - Cleveland "the mistake by the lake"
Gino Torretta - 1 game with the Vikes and 1 game with the Seahawks
Jason White - quit early weak knees
Eric Crouch - Rams played zero snaps, bounced around NFL & Canadian FB
Ty Dietmer - Mostly bounced around as a backup
Andre Ware - 6 games with Lions, bounced around NFL & Canadian FB
Chris Weinke-SF
Ron Dayne - Giants
Danny Wuerffel - Saints
Rashaan Salaam - Bears
Matt Leinert - Cards
Troy Smith - SF
Tim Tebow - Jets
RGII - Washington
Manziel - Cleveland "the mistake by the lake"
Doesn't matter, performed huge under the circumstances. Deserved "Best Player" when he won it in college. Doesn't matter if he was able to be a pro.
So is a drop back passer in a pro style offense considered a system guy?
I don't have any issue with a glorified fullback like Tebow winning the Heisman as an anomaly. I will always think he was GROSSLY overrated and a definite product of his system but he isn't the first player for that to be the case an he won't be the last either.
I just think that should be the exception, not the norm. Shouldn't a reasonable percentage of these guys have some success as pros? I mean they are playing the same sport, right?
And for the most part we are not talking about guys who went on to be good but not great pros. We are talking about tons and tons of guys who either never made the NFL or were career back ups. I'm sorry but to me that is a deal breaker. I don't care how many phony passing records your program's system allows you to break or in Tebow's case, I don't care how many Christian zealots rush to fellate you every time you genuflect in the end zone, I have to actually see the talent and in FAR too many instances there isn't any talent there to see.
There are some exceptions there. Cam Newton is a great player and Carson Palmer has enjoyed a solid career. It is just that for those two, I have just seen a sea of guys like Troy Smith, Danny Weurffel, Tim Tebow, Erich Crouch, Matt Leinart, Gino Toretta, etc. and it makes the whole award kind of, eh, for me.
Again, I don't begrudge anyone who gets pumped over it. I just don't put a whole lot of stock into it because it is largely like Homecoming King, a popularity contest, Being the first overall pick in the NFL draft is a much bigger deal to me and many of those guys bust too. It's just that when those guys bust, they typically become back ups and journeymen, not preachers and analysts.
I just think that should be the exception, not the norm. Shouldn't a reasonable percentage of these guys have some success as pros? I mean they are playing the same sport, right?
And for the most part we are not talking about guys who went on to be good but not great pros. We are talking about tons and tons of guys who either never made the NFL or were career back ups. I'm sorry but to me that is a deal breaker. I don't care how many phony passing records your program's system allows you to break or in Tebow's case, I don't care how many Christian zealots rush to fellate you every time you genuflect in the end zone, I have to actually see the talent and in FAR too many instances there isn't any talent there to see.
There are some exceptions there. Cam Newton is a great player and Carson Palmer has enjoyed a solid career. It is just that for those two, I have just seen a sea of guys like Troy Smith, Danny Weurffel, Tim Tebow, Erich Crouch, Matt Leinart, Gino Toretta, etc. and it makes the whole award kind of, eh, for me.
Again, I don't begrudge anyone who gets pumped over it. I just don't put a whole lot of stock into it because it is largely like Homecoming King, a popularity contest, Being the first overall pick in the NFL draft is a much bigger deal to me and many of those guys bust too. It's just that when those guys bust, they typically become back ups and journeymen, not preachers and analysts.
As for Tebow specifically, it just never made any sense to me.
The. Man. Could. Not. Throw. A. Football. To. Save. His. Life.
...at all!
How can you be considered an elite player at any position - and some go so far as to insist that Tebow is an all-time great, which is insane - when you can't perform THE core obligation of that job. I just can't think of any elite wide receivers whom everyone agrees can't catch but is still amazing; or an elite linebacker who is universally regarded as a poor tackler but an all-timer at that position.
I think Tebow hit the perfect storm and the PERFECT example of what a joke the Heisman Trophy has become. He played for some great Florida teams that were loaded with actual talent all around him. Remember, the great Chris Leak led them to a national title just two years prior. Tebow also played in a system that accentuated his strengths and masked some of his many flaws. I think that hurt him in the long run but that's a topic for a different day. Also, the Gators have an enormous following and they compete in the SEC, which has the most rabid fans in college football.
Then you throw in the fact that the kid had movie star good looks and charisma and was very open about his faith and it was all over but the praying. The legion of Jesus Freaks all over this country - most of whom are Southern - had their official mascot and they were not going to let that go. It got real goofy real fast.
That is a lot of market forces going one's way and for some reason it didn't matter to anyone that my two year-old little boy has better throwing mechanics than American Jesus. He had charm and that's all that matters in modern America.
Absurd.
The. Man. Could. Not. Throw. A. Football. To. Save. His. Life.
...at all!
How can you be considered an elite player at any position - and some go so far as to insist that Tebow is an all-time great, which is insane - when you can't perform THE core obligation of that job. I just can't think of any elite wide receivers whom everyone agrees can't catch but is still amazing; or an elite linebacker who is universally regarded as a poor tackler but an all-timer at that position.
I think Tebow hit the perfect storm and the PERFECT example of what a joke the Heisman Trophy has become. He played for some great Florida teams that were loaded with actual talent all around him. Remember, the great Chris Leak led them to a national title just two years prior. Tebow also played in a system that accentuated his strengths and masked some of his many flaws. I think that hurt him in the long run but that's a topic for a different day. Also, the Gators have an enormous following and they compete in the SEC, which has the most rabid fans in college football.
Then you throw in the fact that the kid had movie star good looks and charisma and was very open about his faith and it was all over but the praying. The legion of Jesus Freaks all over this country - most of whom are Southern - had their official mascot and they were not going to let that go. It got real goofy real fast.
That is a lot of market forces going one's way and for some reason it didn't matter to anyone that my two year-old little boy has better throwing mechanics than American Jesus. He had charm and that's all that matters in modern America.
Absurd.
The primary job of the QB is to lead the offense, not necessarily to throw the ball. As many others have pointed out, college and the NFL are two different animals. The 70s & 80s were littered with teams running the wishbone. Should a great QB in that system automatically be eliminated from Heisman consideration because they aren't great passers or have bad mechanics?
3300 passing yards, 32 TDs with only 6 Ints. 900 rushing yds with 23 rushing TDs... He absolutely was worthy of the award.
Also, I dont think the Gators win the Championship in 06 without Tebow. I dont think they would have won the Tennessee game or the South Carolina game without Tebow.
3300 passing yards, 32 TDs with only 6 Ints. 900 rushing yds with 23 rushing TDs... He absolutely was worthy of the award.
Also, I dont think the Gators win the Championship in 06 without Tebow. I dont think they would have won the Tennessee game or the South Carolina game without Tebow.
I have no problem with Tebow winning the Heisman. First off, nowhere in the Heisman's description that it is "the best player who will have the best NFL career".
I mean, anyone want to argue Doug Flutie's Heisman? I think outside of a few, he was the most deserving of winners.
I look at it as more than just an "MVP", but who impacts his team and college football the most. I don't think Jason White was worthy because I think you could have put 40 other QB's up there and get the same results. Now, that is not the same of Fitz.
I can't say 20 other QB's could have done what Tebow did. But again, a guy who I thought was worthy of Heisman was Pat White. What the hell was WVU without him? But guys like Wuerffel, Torretta, Crouch?
I mean, anyone want to argue Doug Flutie's Heisman? I think outside of a few, he was the most deserving of winners.
I look at it as more than just an "MVP", but who impacts his team and college football the most. I don't think Jason White was worthy because I think you could have put 40 other QB's up there and get the same results. Now, that is not the same of Fitz.
I can't say 20 other QB's could have done what Tebow did. But again, a guy who I thought was worthy of Heisman was Pat White. What the hell was WVU without him? But guys like Wuerffel, Torretta, Crouch?
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