I'm surprised that so many fans just discard the value of a hated rival. This is part of the core of college football. Some have commented that we have rivalries with Syracuse, Miami, or ND. None of these teams are remotely close to being the type of rival that PSU or WVU is. What makes a true rivalry is really the intense dislike from both fan bases towards their rival. The games ALWAYS mean something, regardless of records, conferences, etc. Another aspect of rivalry games is that it's cross-generational bond for alumni. I love talking to alumni in their 80's or 90's about their memories from the Penn State games when they were in school. What are recent grads going to share? Scintillating tales of the "tough" game against Syracuse? Ugh.
Holgerson: We're beggin them to play
- Thread starter TIGER-PAUL
- Start date
Well, you'll notice the attitude of a lot of fans towards WVU if that if we don't play them, they'll rot on their island. Whether or not that would actually happen is up for debate.
Notice that this mindset is not present for PSU, other than fans who - understandably - want nothing to do with them because of the Sandusky coverup.
My biggest issue with the conversation is when people try to say that Pitt needs the game, and worse, give bad reasons for why Pitt does.
Notice that this mindset is not present for PSU, other than fans who - understandably - want nothing to do with them because of the Sandusky coverup.
My biggest issue with the conversation is when people try to say that Pitt needs the game, and worse, give bad reasons for why Pitt does.
You're wrong. The game generates interest....Which means money. It puts fans in the seats. It puts each program on TV. It generates national interest which attracts advertisers. It's a win for each of these schools.
Meh. I prefer talking to fellow Pitt fans about games we WON. And while I don't include I-AA or MAC among those, I don't discriminate much among the rest. Frankly, in the next couple years, PSU will likely be favored to kick our asses, the way recruiting has been going. I don't necessarily think they'll put up scores like the mid-90's on us, but ... odds are, Pitt will be underdogs and will likely lose most of them. That 12-0 win so many crow about? It was the only win in a 4 game series. Do I give a damn that it was the final one? No.
And that "13-9" WVU game so many still hang their hat on? It was a win that made us 5-7, and WVU went on to a BCS game anyway, even if it wasn't the biggest one. It's mildly amusing that Pitt did derail their NC hopes, but they still had a great season, basically more than twice as better as we did.
If Pitt plays a solid schedule, only the minimum 1-AA teams, and manages to (gasp) win most of them ... I promise I will be far happier with that than if we are going 5-7 but eek out a win against one of our "rivals".
As a PSU fan, I'm excited about the re-boot next year with Pitt. I think rivalry games are good and I think that Pitt playing both WVU and PSU would benefit you greatly. Those games sell out and have intense atmospheres (I've been to both PSU/Pitt and Pitt/WVU games), which is an incredibly powerful recruiting tool. Those are the games you want recruits to come see. If they come and see a half-filled stadium with a mild atmosphere, it does nothing for you (whether you win or lose). If you can pack the stadium and have it rock the entire game, that leaves an impression on a kid. They want to play in that environment.
Sounds like a valid argument until you consider that we created a vicious hated rivalry with Brian Kelly's Cincy Bearcats in three short years.
We do in fact have long histories with both ND and Cuse. But in recent years there hasn't been mich hate. I don't believe that UPS or WVU have anything approaching the number of games we have with the Irish & Orange.
Yeah, it is almost holding our collective noses. But my thoughts are, not just pissing them off, but in doing this, you really put a dent in WVU recruiting by decreasing their relevance.
What I cannot understand is in basketball. That game should be played, no excuses. Even if you play it at "neutral" sites like Consol and Charleston Civic Center.
Seeing as to how we didn't actually play them even once in the mid-90s (no games in 93, 94, 95 or 96) I'm not sure what games you are actually "remembering". However since you brought up the last four game series maybe that's what you are "remembering". Except I'm not sure what big scores you think they put up on us then. The 97 game was a 17 point game, so there is that. The 98 game was a seven point game where we had the ball at the end of the fourth quarter with a chance to tie the game (or go for two and win) on the last possession. The 99 game was a three point game that we lined up for and missed a long field goal attempt on the last play of the game to tie it up. And of course the 00 game was 12-0. Which means that over the last three games of the series we actually outscored the nitters, 42-40. We were underdogs (big underdogs in a couple of them) in all four of those games, and we covered all four. And let's not forget that in that stretch Pitt was 20-26, so you'd like to at least hope that we will be just a little bit better over the life of the next four game contract than we were over the last four game series.
So if as you said they can't put scores up on us like they did over those four games wouldn't that mean the series would definitely tip in our favor?
Cc made their bed with barbaric fan behavior and horrible academics. Why give in and make it easy with a bus ride up 79? Everyone with an ounce of common sense knew the big 12 was their only choice so let them keep traveling and racking up frequent flyer miles with those tractors.
Winning isn't a lazy argument. Boise State blows that argument up in every way. That big game against Idaho every year really meant a lot for them, didn't it? Or maybe it was venturing out to play whoever would schedule them and winning?
did you ever notice how much Pitt fans sound like Penn State fans on this subject.... Sure, play WVU and play Penn State every year....why the hell not? I'd love to hook fans up to polygraphs on these deals..."Would really prefer an SEC team to a WVU or PSU game?"..."yes"....needle just jumped right off the page.....
Screw WVU! I'd rather play Penn State & ND as we have more to gain (especially in terms of recruiting) if we beat them. I'd love to have an OOC that has PSU (when we aren't scheduled to play ND), one decent program like what we've done with Iowa, Okie State, Tennessee, maybe a mid to lower level team from the Big 5 like Kentucky, Indiana, Washington St & then instead of the yearly MAC matchups spread the love around to all the non Big 5 conferences & try to make that game the season opener if possible. No more FCS schools though.
Only one problem. Barring any new scandal like boy rape gate, PSU will never, ever schedule an extended series will Pitt again after this next set of games. We know all the reasons, real and imaginary, they have for doing that.
I don't exactly know if Pitt's reason for spurning WVU ... maybe the fanbase issue ... but I don't think it's the same as PSU's reason for blowing off Pitt. PSU can draw big crowds and tv games playing just about anyone; we can't. PSU can afford to dick over Pitt just for the hell of it, to cater to their a-hole fans' lust to be 'superior'.
Conversely, Pitt needs big crowds and better tv games, so can't as easily scoff at the Hoopies just because off assholery, like PSU does. We'd need a more meaningful reason.
But is it the WVU fanbase crap then? Honestly I normally wouldn't see that either. Nordy and now Gally, as well as the ADs, tucked away in their luxo-boxes and surrounded by minions, would never have to suffer the WVU riff raff the way real fans do. And we know if something doesn't affect the fat cats (or their families), they easily minimize the impact on the masses. Didn't bother Nordy none that WVU fans beat up on a pregnant LSU fan, or Pitt fans regularly getting assaulted there, or cars vandalized.
Nor did it bother past chancellors. After all, WVU fans have ALWAYS acted like that. Motown yes, but in Pittsburgh as well. Mid 90s, after a game at Pitt Stadium, their mob infamously clogged and shut down Fifth Ave in front of the old Burger King. Cars were paralyzed, and WVU fans pounded on hoods and windshields of drivers who dared honk. Earlier, their mob had entertained the crowd with a stirring chorus of "F*ck you Pitt" throughout the game. Didn't see J Dennis issue any kind of ultimatum from that. Then again, highly doubt he was even aware of the program.
HOWEVER, things might have changed when the Pitt coaches actually got a taste of their wrat at the "coin game". Dixon, a Pitt aristocrat himself, might have put his foot down. It's really all I can think of.
So if that really is it, nice job, WVU fans. If Pitt keeps its backbone and resists scheduling WVU, it's all on you. Couldn't just keep your hooliganism reserved for the lowly fans.
However, IMO your penance will end after Pitt's series with PSU is over, because Pitt will need you once again.
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Or maybe Pitt knows this is no win situation. Few, if any, D1 prospects in sparsely-populated WV. Many prospects in Western PA. The only positive would be big TV ratings and attendance.
And frankly, I don't think you'll be competitive until you get some continuity in the coaching staff. Maybe in 2-4 years.
