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House v. NCAA agreement details roster sizes, NIL transparency as college leaders set blueprint for future

RaleighPittFan

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“Football rosters will be limited to 105 players, resulting in as many as 20 additional scholarships beyond the current scholarship restrictions (85), sources told CBS Sports. With unlimited scholarships, baseball teams will be able to provide as many as 34 scholarships to players, an increase from the 11.7 "equivalency" among 27 players allowed today. Softball will jump from 12 to 25.”

 
“Football rosters will be limited to 105 players, resulting in as many as 20 additional scholarships beyond the current scholarship restrictions (85), sources told CBS Sports. With unlimited scholarships, baseball teams will be able to provide as many as 34 scholarships to players, an increase from the 11.7 "equivalency" among 27 players allowed today. Softball will jump from 12 to 25.”


Wow, another great win for SMF. From the article:

"The longform agreement also includes stricter rules on NIL, though how those will be enforced remain unanswered — and the NCAA and plaintiffs have yet to agree on an arbiter. NIL agreements over $600 will be subject to review by a clearinghouse to ensure they are legitimate, fair-market value agreements that are not used in a pay-for-play scheme. How the autonomy five schools will police NIL is to be determined, and it's not clear if enforcement will be handled by the NCAA or the conferences. Schools will also be allowed to pay players directly for their NIL, however doing so will apply toward the 22% revenue cap. Outside parties will continue to be allowed to strike separate NIL deals with players. "

The House folks must read this board because I literally proposed the same thing. This sounds like good news for Pitt and also college football fans who wont be coerced into paying player salaries.

From what I gather, the salary cap for football players will be 22% of revenue though I'm not sure if that means Pitt can pay its players 22% of Pitt's revenue and OSU can pay 22% of its revenue (obviously much more than Pitt) or how that works. But this certainly sounds like the current player salaries paid by fan collectives wont be allowed anymore. Well, I mean, you cant stop fans from paying players if they want to but there will be some type of eligibility penalty for the player for being paid an above-market deal. Lets take SMU's billionaire "owner" for example. He cant pay some 5 star QB $5 million to volunteer at an animal shelter. That's the shit that's going on, not SMU necessarily but deals like that.

All NIL deals over $600 will have to be run through a clearinghouse to ensure they are fair market value. Of course, does this just mean fan collectives just pivot and pay players $599.99/day or whatever?
 
OSU says their football players made $20 million in salary last year (disguised as NIL). Seems like these are the types of deals which will not be allowed in the future since they are well over fair market value.

House wants pay for play (disguised as "revenue sharing) and what I call real NIL. The current pay for play NIL may be going away.

 
what does a 34 player college baseball roster look like? Is there enough room in the dugouts and bull pen for all these guys?
 
Wow, another great win for SMF. From the article:

"The longform agreement also includes stricter rules on NIL, though how those will be enforced remain unanswered — and the NCAA and plaintiffs have yet to agree on an arbiter. NIL agreements over $600 will be subject to review by a clearinghouse to ensure they are legitimate, fair-market value agreements that are not used in a pay-for-play scheme. How the autonomy five schools will police NIL is to be determined, and it's not clear if enforcement will be handled by the NCAA or the conferences. Schools will also be allowed to pay players directly for their NIL, however doing so will apply toward the 22% revenue cap. Outside parties will continue to be allowed to strike separate NIL deals with players. "

The House folks must read this board because I literally proposed the same thing. This sounds like good news for Pitt and also college football fans who wont be coerced into paying player salaries.

From what I gather, the salary cap for football players will be 22% of revenue though I'm not sure if that means Pitt can pay its players 22% of Pitt's revenue and OSU can pay 22% of its revenue (obviously much more than Pitt) or how that works. But this certainly sounds like the current player salaries paid by fan collectives wont be allowed anymore. Well, I mean, you cant stop fans from paying players if they want to but there will be some type of eligibility penalty for the player for being paid an above-market deal. Lets take SMU's billionaire "owner" for example. He cant pay some 5 star QB $5 million to volunteer at an animal shelter. That's the shit that's going on, not SMU necessarily but deals like that.

All NIL deals over $600 will have to be run through a clearinghouse to ensure they are fair market value. Of course, does this just mean fan collectives just pivot and pay players $599.99/day or whatever?
ok but the ncaa can enforce the nil directed by these universities (which will be coming shortly) but they will never be able to enforce the outside NIL money. you guys didnt know this but im a multi-millionaire, i own a few dealerships, zeldas' automotive, formerly Swervin's automotive, so i want to give 1m to meleek or some 5 star high school kid to come to pitt, will pay him 1m every year he plays at pitt, all agreed by him and me, the ncaa will NEVER be able to enforce that.


they want all of this to go under one umbrella and have that nil directive be affilated/associated with the school. And it's obvious this will happen very soon BUT like i said, that doesnt cover outside NIL (Aka boosters) directives.. These college programs will try like hell to get all their rich boosters to use the university affiliated NIL program so they can control the payouts but zero chance that happens..

I just dont know how they conveniently leave this out.. the 22% revenue payouts and the NIL affiliated programs are fine and all but you still have the elephant in the room and thats rich fans using shell companies and their businesses to pay kids to go to their favorite schools..
 
ok but the ncaa can enforce the nil directed by these universities (which will be coming shortly) but they will never be able to enforce the outside NIL money. you guys didnt know this but im a multi-millionaire, i own a few dealerships, zeldas' automotive, formerly Swervin's automotive, so i want to give 1m to meleek or some 5 star high school kid to come to pitt, will pay him 1m every year he plays at pitt, all agreed by him and me, the ncaa will NEVER be able to enforce that.


they want all of this to go under one umbrella and have that nil directive be affilated/associated with the school. And it's obvious this will happen very soon BUT like i said, that doesnt cover outside NIL (Aka boosters) directives.. These college programs will try like hell to get all their rich boosters to use the university affiliated NIL program so they can control the payouts but zero chance that happens..

I just dont know how they conveniently leave this out.. the 22% revenue payouts and the NIL affiliated programs are fine and all but you still have the elephant in the room and thats rich fans using shell companies and their businesses to pay kids to go to their favorite schools..

No. The article states that Meleek Thomas (or perhaps the school) would have to report Zelda Automotive's $1 million NIL deal. It says that it would be determined if it was fair market value or not. What it doesn't say is what happens when the NCAA consultants say that the Meleek/Zelda deal for him to do a few commercials and have his face on some billboards is only worth $50K not $1 million. That would mean that you made a legit business expense of $50K and then paid the kid $950,000 to play for your favorite team. Are there sanctions for that? That's what's not decided.

So, to me, it seems like these booster NIL deals will be going away. The way around it is to do smaller deals of $599.99 which dont have to be reported to the NCAA. So, I guess you could do daily $599.99 NIL deals. Maybe that's the workaround.
 
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ok but the ncaa can enforce the nil directed by these universities (which will be coming shortly) but they will never be able to enforce the outside NIL money. you guys didnt know this but im a multi-millionaire, i own a few dealerships, zeldas' automotive, formerly Swervin's automotive, so i want to give 1m to meleek or some 5 star high school kid to come to pitt, will pay him 1m every year he plays at pitt, all agreed by him and me, the ncaa will NEVER be able to enforce that.


they want all of this to go under one umbrella and have that nil directive be affilated/associated with the school. And it's obvious this will happen very soon BUT like i said, that doesnt cover outside NIL (Aka boosters) directives.. These college programs will try like hell to get all their rich boosters to use the university affiliated NIL program so they can control the payouts but zero chance that happens..

I just dont know how they conveniently leave this out.. the 22% revenue payouts and the NIL affiliated programs are fine and all but you still have the elephant in the room and thats rich fans using shell companies and their businesses to pay kids to go to their favorite schools..
"the 22% revenue payouts and the NIL affiliated programs are fine and all but you still have the elephant in the room and thats rich fans using shell companies and their businesses to pay kids to go to their favorite schools.."

Were you referring to this elephant?


635880528346602821-pep25.jpg
 
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No. The article states that Meleek Thomas (or perhaps the school) would have to report Zelda Automotive's $1 million NIL deal. It says that it would be determined if it was fair market value or not. What it doesn't say is what happens when the NCAA consultants say that the Meleek/Zelda deal for him to do a few commercials and have his face on some billboards is only worth $50K not $1 million. That would mean that you made a legit business expense of $50K and then paid the kid $950,000 to play for your favorite team. Are their sanctions for that? That's what's not decided.

So, to me, it seems like these booster NIL deals will be going away. The way around it is to do smaller deals of $599.99 which dont have to be reported to the NCAA. So, I guess you could do daily $599.99 NIL deals. Maybe that's the workaround.
ok, very interesting indeed.. kudos on the clarification
 
ok, very interesting indeed.. kudos on the clarification

And if this virtually eliminates the booster NIL market then this would be very very good news for Pitt as player salaries would limited to 22% of revenue and while OSU players would make more since their revenue is higher than Pitt, Pitt could compete more equally.
 
No. The article states that Meleek Thomas (or perhaps the school) would have to report Zelda Automotive's $1 million NIL deal. It says that it would be determined if it was fair market value or not. What it doesn't say is what happens when the NCAA consultants say that the Meleek/Zelda deal for him to do a few commercials and have his face on some billboards is only worth $50K not $1 million. That would mean that you made a legit business expense of $50K and then paid the kid $950,000 to play for your favorite team. Are there sanctions for that? That's what's not decided.

So, to me, it seems like these booster NIL deals will be going away. The way around it is to do smaller deals of $599.99 which dont have to be reported to the NCAA. So, I guess you could do daily $599.99 NIL deals. Maybe that's the workaround.
Here is something, wasn't Jordan Addison's NIL deal with USC associated with United Air Lines or something like that? Has anyone asked USC or United what exactly did Addison do to help justify the money he got??
 
Here is something, wasn't Jordan Addison's NIL deal with USC associated with United Air Lines or something like that? Has anyone asked USC or United what exactly did Addison do to help justify the money he got??

No. United Airlines is a public company. They honestly probably paid him $10K to make an IG post. They cant justify paying an obscure college athlete to their shareholders, 99.999% are not USC fans. He got paid by the boosters.
 
3....2....1 and the NCAA was sued again and lost another NIL case.

Plus, the NCAA will be further cut out of regulating major college football in a few years. The Big Ten and SEC are already working to make their own rules.
 
3....2....1 and the NCAA was sued again and lost another NIL case.

Plus, the NCAA will be further cut out of regulating major college football in a few years. The Big Ten and SEC are already working to make their own rules.

The B10 and SEC don't want these pay for play booster NIL deals either. No one does. They are doing it now because you dont have a choice.
 
The B10 and SEC don't want these pay for play booster NIL deals either. No one does. They are doing it now because you dont have a choice.
The programs with strong outside NIL still want outside NIL

What they want is a little control over what is being promised and to whom it is being promised.
 
The programs with strong outside NIL still want outside NIL

What they want is a little control over what is being promised and to whom it is being promised.

None of them want pay for play NIL because they have no idea what these kids are getting from other places which is why they want every deal over $600 reported to a clearinghouse and vetted for fair market value. Does that mean that these booster NIL clubs can just pay players $599/day? I dont know. Maybe.
 
None of them want pay for play NIL because they have no idea what these kids are getting from other places which is why they want every deal over $600 reported to a clearinghouse and vetted for fair market value. Does that mean that these booster NIL clubs can just pay players $599/day? I dont know. Maybe.
Again the big schools want to control not end it, they want it to be more of a partnership so they can give direction and know what the financial commitment is.

NCAA will be sued the first time the clearinghouse denies any NIL deal because of market value and they will lose again.
 
Wow, another great win for SMF. From the article:

"The longform agreement also includes stricter rules on NIL, though how those will be enforced remain unanswered — and the NCAA and plaintiffs have yet to agree on an arbiter. NIL agreements over $600 will be subject to review by a clearinghouse to ensure they are legitimate, fair-market value agreements that are not used in a pay-for-play scheme. How the autonomy five schools will police NIL is to be determined, and it's not clear if enforcement will be handled by the NCAA or the conferences. Schools will also be allowed to pay players directly for their NIL, however doing so will apply toward the 22% revenue cap. Outside parties will continue to be allowed to strike separate NIL deals with players. "

The House folks must read this board because I literally proposed the same thing. This sounds like good news for Pitt and also college football fans who wont be coerced into paying player salaries.

From what I gather, the salary cap for football players will be 22% of revenue though I'm not sure if that means Pitt can pay its players 22% of Pitt's revenue and OSU can pay 22% of its revenue (obviously much more than Pitt) or how that works. But this certainly sounds like the current player salaries paid by fan collectives wont be allowed anymore. Well, I mean, you cant stop fans from paying players if they want to but there will be some type of eligibility penalty for the player for being paid an above-market deal. Lets take SMU's billionaire "owner" for example. He cant pay some 5 star QB $5 million to volunteer at an animal shelter. That's the shit that's going on, not SMU necessarily but deals like that.

All NIL deals over $600 will have to be run through a clearinghouse to ensure they are fair market value. Of course, does this just mean fan collectives just pivot and pay players $599.99/day or whatever?



The Court is refusing to allow the settlement because it doesn’t believe the NCAA can properly police NIL.

As I have said, until there is a collective bargaining, there will be no regulation on how players can be compensated.
 


The Court is refusing to allow the settlement because it doesn’t believe the NCAA can properly police NIL.

As I have said, until there is a collective bargaining, there will be no regulation on how players can be compensated.

So right now, we have pay for play through the collectives. The judge seems to want that to continue or even allow direct booster payments. Rich enough? Write a direct check yourself to Eli Holstein to stay.

The NCAA wants to the players to be paid $22 million directly through the university and then on top of that, player NIL deals would have to be real and legitimate.
 
So right now, we have pay for play through the collectives. The judge seems to want that to continue or even allow direct booster payments. Rich enough? Write a direct check yourself to Eli Holstein to stay.

The NCAA wants to the players to be paid $22 million directly through the university and then on top of that, player NIL deals would have to be real and legitimate.

Right.
The Court doesn’t understand by what standards the NCAA will regulate “real and legitimate,” and by what right?

The undercurrent to all of this is obvious: they aren’t employees, so how can you regulate their outside compensation?

Nothing gets done. Regardless of how noble you think the NCAA cause is, until that underlining issue is solved.
 
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what does a 34 player college baseball roster look like? Is there enough room in the dugouts and bull pen for all these guys?
I have no idea why a coach would want that many other than to hoard talent, which isn't all that practical because of the wide open transfer rule.

I think the idea of using "equivalency" is probably going to put schools in a position where they only invest in sports where there is adequate booster support. It's why I've been saying that football at Pitt might now be a big thing in ten years.
 
Right.
The Court doesn’t understand by what standards the NCAA will regulate “real and legitimate,” and by what right?

The undercurrent to all of this is obvious: they aren’t employees, so how can you regulate their outside compensation?

Nothing gets done. Regardless of how noble you think the NCAA cause is, until that underlining issue is solved.

Well, the NCAA can say we aren't telling a kid they cant take $1 million from a booster but if they do then they are ineligible because that would make them a professional. The booster would have to pay them for services unrelated to football like appearing in a commercial. But lets take the Miami dude for example. If he pays Cam Ward $1 million to do a Life Wallet commercial, that's about $975K more than the value of some obscure college QB doing a commercial that only appears on YouTube. He could only pay him market value. And who determines market value? A 3rd party which is what I've been saying for years.
 
Well, the NCAA can say we aren't telling a kid they cant take $1 million from a booster but if they do then they are ineligible because that would make them a professional. The booster would have to pay them for services unrelated to football like appearing in a commercial. But lets take the Miami dude for example. If he pays Cam Ward $1 million to do a Life Wallet commercial, that's about $975K more than the value of some obscure college QB doing a commercial that only appears on YouTube. He could only pay him market value. And who determines market value? A 3rd party which is what I've been saying for years.

Who chooses the third party?
 
3....2....1 and the NCAA was sued again and lost another NIL case.

Plus, the NCAA will be further cut out of regulating major college football in a few years. The Big Ten and SEC are already working to make their own rules.
And what makes you think B1G/SEC are somehow exempt from anti-trust litigation whereas the NCAA is not? Here’s a clue, they are not which is why everything is in limbo as well as this “settlement”.

I particularly like the part where the individual conferences may enforce NIL. ROFL… if there is one thing that will destroy college football forever, this is it.

“SEC Enforcement Division. Headquarters in the Cayman Islands”. Because that is the only way they will get away with their bullshit. They probably will have to play their games there as well. LOL
 
The moment the NCAA tries to limit what a player can make from NIL they will be sued and lose.

The NCAA's issue is they won't let go of amateurism. This means that anyone who receives a payment "to play" becomes a professional and is then ineligible. They are currently looking the other way on the current collective pay for play NIL deals but they want to start having those go through a clearinghouse to determine if they are market value or not or if they are pay for play. The NCAA's standpoint is that football players will be making $22 million per year from the university. That's your "pay for play." That's the salary cap so to speak. If you land REAL NIL deals on top of that, run it through the clearinghouse. Car dealership wants to pay the QB $10K to sign autographs. That seems right. $1 million to do that? Yea, no way.
 
And what makes you think B1G/SEC are somehow exempt from anti-trust litigation whereas the NCAA is not? Here’s a clue, they are not which is why everything is in limbo as well as this “settlement”.

I particularly like the part where the individual conferences may enforce NIL. ROFL… if there is one thing that will destroy college football forever, this is it.

“SEC Enforcement Division. Headquarters in the Cayman Islands”. Because that is the only way they will get away with their bullshit. They probably will have to play their games there as well. LOL
They will be open to litigation but they are frustrated, a long with P4 schools, that they do not get to make there own rules. Everything the NCAA goes through committees that have none P4 and even none FBS schools sitting on them.
 
They will be open to litigation but they are frustrated, a long with P4 schools, that they do not get to make there own rules. Everything the NCAA goes through committees that have none P4 and even none FBS schools sitting on them.
Not sure that's true. It's not like any of the Blue Bloods ever game a damn about rules or following them. What they all really want is to manipulate things to their advantage however they see fit.
 
The NCAA's issue is they won't let go of amateurism. This means that anyone who receives a payment "to play" becomes a professional and is then ineligible. They are currently looking the other way on the current collective pay for play NIL deals but they want to start having those go through a clearinghouse to determine if they are market value or not or if they are pay for play. The NCAA's standpoint is that football players will be making $22 million per year from the university. That's your "pay for play." That's the salary cap so to speak. If you land REAL NIL deals on top of that, run it through the clearinghouse. Car dealership wants to pay the QB $10K to sign autographs. That seems right. $1 million to do that? Yea, no way.
The NCAA has lost every single NIL case that has been brought because you cannot limit what players make from NIL.
 
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The NCAA has lost every single NIL case that has been brought because you cannot limit what players make from NIL.

The key there is NIL. Name, Image, and Likeness for advertising usage. You giving a guy $1 million to appear at your son's birthday party isn't NIL. Maybe $1000 of it is. The other $999,000 is you paying the guy to play for your favorite team because paying someone $1 million is way over market value. So then you say, you cant limit what I want to pay someone to come to my kid's birthday. Well, you are right, you CAN pay them the $1 million. Nobody can stop you. That would just make them a pro and they'd lose eligibility.
 
The key there is NIL. Name, Image, and Likeness for advertising usage. You giving a guy $1 million to appear at your son's birthday party isn't NIL. Maybe $1000 of it is. The other $999,000 is you paying the guy to play for your favorite team because paying someone $1 million is way over market value. So then you say, you cant limit what I want to pay someone to come to my kid's birthday. Well, you are right, you CAN pay them the $1 million. Nobody can stop you. That would just make them a pro and they'd lose eligibility.
You are worth what someone is willing to pay you and the NCAA would lose that one in court if they try to put limits on NIL.
 
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I am far from Jimmy Hoffa or Cesar Chavez, but the only way really to put true rules and guidelines in place is to have set of standards is a real CBA. Across either leagues or college FB. Everything else relies on the NCAA acting as a governing agency and they already shown they can't and can be defeated in court.
 
You are worth what someone is willing to pay you and the NCAA would lose that one in court if they try to put limits on NIL.

You are worth what someone is willing to pay you to play. Your name, image, and likeness services have a fairly defined market value. I'm not saying the NCAA wouldn't lose this lawsuit but it wouldn't be because a court finds that a player can retain eligibility after receiving fair above market NIL deals because those are obviously not NIL deals. The court would find that if players receive booster payments "to play," they cannot be deemed ineligible, thus making college players officially pros.
 
You are worth what someone is willing to pay you to play. Your name, image, and likeness services have a fairly defined market value. I'm not saying the NCAA wouldn't lose this lawsuit but it wouldn't be because a court finds that a player can retain eligibility after receiving fair above market NIL deals because those are obviously not NIL deals. The court would find that if players receive booster payments "to play," they cannot be deemed ineligible, thus making college players officially pros.
 
I am far from Jimmy Hoffa or Cesar Chavez, but the only way really to put true rules and guidelines in place is to have set of standards is a real CBA. Across either leagues or college FB. Everything else relies on the NCAA acting as a governing agency and they already shown they can't and can be defeated in court.
The problem is the schools don't want a CBA because they will be called employees and I am not sure why the players would want a CBA.
 

Watched the video. It doesn't say anything we didn't read about. The NCAA wants to pay the players $22 million per year but as the trade-off, they want to get rid of the pay for play NIL deals. The judge seems to be in favor of the pay for play NIL deals but wants them to continue to work out a settlement.

Allowing these pay for play NIL deals makes them pros. Boosters are paying them to play for their favorite team. And if those continue, that's fine, but they would be full-blown pros. What the NCAA is trying to do is retain amateurism. They will say they will pay them $22 million/year to use their name, image, and likeness for team marketing and advertising not for them TO PLAY but if a booster gives a recruit $1 million to come to their school, that is "to play" and makes them a pro so they lose eligibility.

You know where I stand. I want them to be full-blown pros with salaries paid by the school and a CBA. I dont like this mixed model where boosters can pay salaries.
 
Watched the video. It doesn't say anything we didn't read about. The NCAA wants to pay the players $22 million per year but as the trade-off, they want to get rid of the pay for play NIL deals. The judge seems to be in favor of the pay for play NIL deals but wants them to continue to work out a settlement.

Allowing these pay for play NIL deals makes them pros. Boosters are paying them to play for their favorite team. And if those continue, that's fine, but they would be full-blown pros. What the NCAA is trying to do is retain amateurism. They will say they will pay them $22 million/year to use their name, image, and likeness for team marketing and advertising not for them TO PLAY but if a booster gives a recruit $1 million to come to their school, that is "to play" and makes them a pro so they lose eligibility.

You know where I stand. I want them to be full-blown pros with salaries paid by the school and a CBA. I dont like this mixed model where boosters can pay salaries.
The problem is none of the decision makers in college sports want a CBA. It makes zero sense for the players who can transfer at will and will be collecting money from the schools and collectives and the schools are scared to death to call them employees. On top of that the power schools and schools with a strong booster history don't want the collectives to go away they want complete control over how the money is spent.
 
The problem is none of the decision makers in college sports want a CBA.


Yeah, inexplicably they don't want it. The day, however, is coming when they aren't going to have a choice.

They keep clinging to the past, hoping to wring every last penny out of the sham amateurism model until someone pulls it from their cold, dead hands.
 
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