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What are we doing?? A Manifesto of sorts.... NIL and College/HS students

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Jun 11, 2006
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Think about this NIL stuff and everything that is going on with college sports, what are we doing? And this goes down into High School. In college, I lived in some absolute dives, ate alot of ramen noodles, pizza and wings was fine dining, drank the cheapest beer or liquor. I was lucky enough to have parents of some means that I didn't have to struggle, but wasn't rich by any stretch. We walked everywhere. We found free food everywhere. We made good with what we had. And I wouldn't trade those years for anything. We had a blast. Most college students lived like this. The athletes, they always had it a bit better. More perks. More adulation. More opportunities (especially with women).

High School may have been better than college even in some respects. You were protected, in a cocoon. You had a chance to make childish mistakes, learn from them. You got yelled at, you got in trouble. If you played sports, you really got yelled, maybe even called a bad name or two. All of this gave you some foundation, kept you somewhat grounded. You understood that there is a path, you have to do the work, you aren't going to get everything handed to you. Now? We want everything right away, no matter what. Why? Because there are rich people making loads of money off of this, so I should too! I don't have this love of rich people at all, they are in many cases despicable. But I don't have this overwhelming sense of "getting even", this "workers of the world unite" mentality that has been perpetuated by the selfie generation. Me. Me. Me. Mine. Mine. Mine.

I understand the farce of big time college athletics, the "student" part of student athlete probably applies less than we care to admit. It is opportunities, something NIL cannot provide, opportunities to showcase you for whatever Pro League, and certainly opportunities to get and education, skills, and set yourself up for a career. And even moreso than most of the general student population, opportunities that come with the network of being a former player, that maybe gives you an edge over other prospective job applicants.

Plus, there were always perks. I also agree some of the NCAA rules and regs were just draconian and outdates, unrealistic and stupid. Who cares if a player sells clothes or gets a free tattoo. Who cares if a coach buys an airfare ticket for a homesick kid to fly home to see his family. It is crap like that that has led to where we are. Now? It is just a marketing free for all in team sports. That can't end well. Brand has become more important than talent and success. Is this old man yelling at clouds take? Maybe. But here are what some agents, you know those guys who get money for their clients think:

The following is an excerpt from an Athletic Interview/Survey on a multitude of NFL agents:

4. How do you see the name, image and likeness (NIL) permissions factoring into your recruiting of draft prospects?

“Just a complete catastrophe. An arms race to see which agencies can buy the most players at the earliest stages, then keep them happy and then buy them again before the draft. It’s absolute lunacy. The marketplace has destroyed the integrity of our industry..”

“The NIL is a new cesspool. All this did was open up a can of worms that makes everyone think they’re brandable. I’m not mad at the kids, and it is a step forward.”

“Some agents are going to use NIL to sign players ASAP, which is happening. Others will stay in their lane. I think it’s going to be all over the map. … From an agent’s perspective, every kid is going to be different. Some will still emphasize football when choosing an agent, but some will separate marketing and agents.”

“I think it’s allowing less-talented, less-experienced agents to sway kids with promises that I’m not so sure they’re able to keep. These so-called agents are using this as an entry to a world they never would have gotten in otherwise. If the players can make money off their name, great, but will some of these agents deliver?”

“It’s changed the whole game. Marketing agencies can now sign 18-year-olds coming out of high school. This could be beneficial for agents if kids are loyal, but also a challenge if other agents promise a lot when it comes to signing kids for the draft. Definitely beneficial for the kids.”

“It’s already the No. 1 topic, hands down. Big focus for these players. It’s the most pressing topic of conversation. It’s already caused the agent community to become involved in these player’s lives and decisions as early as their freshmen year. It’s not good for anybody, and I think it will hurt more kids. I wouldn’t normally talk to any kid until their draft-eligible year.”

“There are a lot of (agents) who have already broken the rules. I’ve had multiple players show me NIL texts from agents (that discuss monthly payments).”

“Some people will take advantage of naive kids to gain a business advantage, but some will educate them. Agents that help will be rewarded.”

“The top prospects will be bought and paid for long before they get to the NFL Draft. I’m hearing about big payments already. I guess it’s legal now, depending on who you ask.”


Like I said, maybe the players deserved a bit more, but the NCAA and Colleges were a bit hamstrung by Title IX rules, so they just can't outright give a set salary, because then they would have to do it with women's volleyball and gender equity pay, and all of this, so this was their way to navigate this. I think it would have probably been best as before, under the table, just don't have an enforcement to it, but at least even the mere threat or published investigation kept some brakes on these things, now it is legal, what do you think Alabama and Ohio State are going to do?

But back to the kids. I mean now kids skipping their Sr year of High School to enroll early. Are we insane? I think to Canada and Jr Hockey, and yes a 15 year old Sidney Crosby left home, to play Juniors, but he was riding the busses, and living in boarding houses, playing in front of a couple of thousand people not like a 16-17 year olds playing on national TV and 100K cheering in the stands. Even the NHL, when they bring an 18 year old kid into the league, they usually set them up with a local family to live on so they aren't on their own, and these are pros. What messages are we sending to these kids? They are so selfish now to begin with.

I truly believe one reason why baseball is dying as far as participation is concerned, is young athletes don't want to put in the time in the minor leagues, riding busses from Durham to Chattanooga, where playing big time college football or basketball, they are flying in jets, staying in nice hotels, playing in front of large crowds on national TV. Kids, hell people now, we all feel entitled. No one buys "starter homes" anymore, they immediate want a 3000 sq ft (or more) new construction house in a tree lined neighborhood and then feel they have to be paid to afford it. No one seems to want to start out at the bottom.

We are creating a monster and a mess. What is next? Even in the pro sports there are rules, there doesn't seem to be any rules here. The inmates are running the asylum. They are going to kill this thing, you watch. Signing off, old man yelling at clouds.
 
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First,

I applaud your effort in posting this. Clearly thought out and thorough.

I dont disagree with any of the captions stated. it is only a matter of time before the perception goes from "only a handful of kids are benefitting" to the devastation quoted above.

I'm torn. CFB has become a freight train racing downhill. At the same time, SCOTUS went 9-0 on this decision, and i am a capitalist.

As an aside, the comments regarding Junior Hockey are interesting. I have always been fascinated with life in Junior Hockey and unlike Minor League baseball, I cant seem to locate any real life documentaries on what it must be like.

In fact, I emailed Mark Madden, and suggested that maybe he would be interested in making a documentary. He was nice enough to email back and say thanks but not at this time.,
 
First,

I applaud your effort in posting this. Clearly thought out and thorough.

I dont disagree with any of the captions stated. it is only a matter of time before the perception goes from "only a handful of kids are benefitting" to the devastation quoted above.

I'm torn. CFB has become a freight train racing downhill. At the same time, SCOTUS went 9-0 on this decision, and i am a capitalist.

As an aside, the comments regarding Junior Hockey are interesting. I have always been fascinated with life in Junior Hockey and unlike Minor League baseball, I cant seem to locate any real life documentaries on what it must be like.

In fact, I emailed Mark Madden, and suggested that maybe he would be interested in making a documentary. He was nice enough to email back and say thanks but not at this time.,
Youngblood with Rob Lowe and Patrick Swayze though not hard hitting, did touch on this life. There was a movie in the 80's (Canadian) called "Rookies" that I think dealt with this.

But you know, reading things about Sidney Crosby and Mario Lemieux shed alot of light. I mean both were over the top, everyone knows who they are. But they came from different backgrounds. Sid actually went to an American Prep School (Shattucks St Mary) known hockey prep school (Jonathan Toews, Zach Parise, Ryan Malone) before Jr's and all accounts an "A" student. You wonder those the overall education these kids get in Juniors since they are traveling. Especially in Western Canada where there is so much real estate.

I think it is alot like minor league baseball. Not so glamorous.
 
One other thing, sure as a "capitalist", but at the end of the day, Pro Leagues are set up with a draft and contract rules and in most cases save for MLB, a salary cap. This has none of that. So there are going to be many envelopes pushed and lines crossed.

It's going to be a mess. But what I don't get, even parents, parents seem not to want to allow their kids to just be kids. From pay for play traveling teams to now pushing them to early entry or now all of this, they seem completely selfish in their own right and not protecting their kids and allowing them to have fun.

I mean in my mid 50's now, best and fondest times was sat riding a bike to practice with my buddies, stopping off for pizza slice afterwards, or playing Ozanam summer hoops. All of this.....believe it or not....without my mommy and daddy there to guide me through every second. We figured it out on our own. Guys coached. Parents, most of them, stayed away. Oh there were pushy ones, but you know guys like Dan Marino, Joe Montana, Bill Fralic, Lavar Arrington played football in the fall, baseball in the spring/summer and didn't have all of these travel, AAU, 7 on 7 teams, and they all managed out okay.

If you are good, they will find you. Not playing and going to these camps may have cost Darrelle Revis and Malik Hooker "stars" on sites like this, but again Major College Football found them, and the NFL paid them millions. I don't know why we are rushing kids, I always say that kids now a days are allowed "no middle". They are either the most driven, focused, worldly, or they are complete morons and rejects. No in between. No allowing them to find their own lanes and speed. Much like our politics now.
 
Think about this NIL stuff and everything that is going on with college sports, what are we doing? And this goes down into High School. In college, I lived in some absolute dives, ate alot of ramen noodles, pizza and wings was fine dining, drank the cheapest beer or liquor. I was lucky enough to have parents of some means that I didn't have to struggle, but wasn't rich by any stretch. We walked everywhere. We found free food everywhere. We made good with what we had. And I wouldn't trade those years for anything. We had a blast. Most college students lived like this. The athletes, they always had it a bit better. More perks. More adulation. More opportunities (especially with women).

High School may have been better than college even in some respects. You were protected, in a cocoon. You had a chance to make childish mistakes, learn from them. You got yelled at, you got in trouble. If you played sports, you really got yelled, maybe even called a bad name or two. All of this gave you some foundation, kept you somewhat grounded. You understood that there is a path, you have to do the work, you aren't going to get everything handed to you. Now? We want everything right away, no matter what. Why? Because there are rich people making loads of money off of this, so I should too! I don't have this love of rich people at all, they are in many cases despicable. But I don't have this overwhelming sense of "getting even", this "workers of the world unite" mentality that has been perpetuated by the selfie generation. Me. Me. Me. Mine. Mine. Mine.

I understand the farce of big time college athletics, the "student" part of student athlete probably applies less than we care to admit. It is opportunities, something NIL cannot provide, opportunities to showcase you for whatever Pro League, and certainly opportunities to get and education, skills, and set yourself up for a career. And even moreso than most of the general student population, opportunities that come with the network of being a former player, that maybe gives you an edge over other prospective job applicants.

Plus, there were always perks. I also agree some of the NCAA rules and regs were just draconian and outdates, unrealistic and stupid. Who cares if a player sells clothes or gets a free tattoo. Who cares if a coach buys an airfare ticket for a homesick kid to fly home to see his family. It is crap like that that has led to where we are. Now? It is just a marketing free for all in team sports. That can't end well. Brand has become more important than talent and success. Is this old man yelling at clouds take? Maybe. But here are what some agents, you know those guys who get money for their clients think:

The following is an excerpt from an Athletic Interview/Survey on a multitude of NFL agents:

4. How do you see the name, image and likeness (NIL) permissions factoring into your recruiting of draft prospects?

“Just a complete catastrophe. An arms race to see which agencies can buy the most players at the earliest stages, then keep them happy and then buy them again before the draft. It’s absolute lunacy. The marketplace has destroyed the integrity of our industry..”

“The NIL is a new cesspool. All this did was open up a can of worms that makes everyone think they’re brandable. I’m not mad at the kids, and it is a step forward.”

“Some agents are going to use NIL to sign players ASAP, which is happening. Others will stay in their lane. I think it’s going to be all over the map. … From an agent’s perspective, every kid is going to be different. Some will still emphasize football when choosing an agent, but some will separate marketing and agents.”

“I think it’s allowing less-talented, less-experienced agents to sway kids with promises that I’m not so sure they’re able to keep. These so-called agents are using this as an entry to a world they never would have gotten in otherwise. If the players can make money off their name, great, but will some of these agents deliver?”

“It’s changed the whole game. Marketing agencies can now sign 18-year-olds coming out of high school. This could be beneficial for agents if kids are loyal, but also a challenge if other agents promise a lot when it comes to signing kids for the draft. Definitely beneficial for the kids.”

“It’s already the No. 1 topic, hands down. Big focus for these players. It’s the most pressing topic of conversation. It’s already caused the agent community to become involved in these player’s lives and decisions as early as their freshmen year. It’s not good for anybody, and I think it will hurt more kids. I wouldn’t normally talk to any kid until their draft-eligible year.”

“There are a lot of (agents) who have already broken the rules. I’ve had multiple players show me NIL texts from agents (that discuss monthly payments).”

“Some people will take advantage of naive kids to gain a business advantage, but some will educate them. Agents that help will be rewarded.”

“The top prospects will be bought and paid for long before they get to the NFL Draft. I’m hearing about big payments already. I guess it’s legal now, depending on who you ask.”


Like I said, maybe the players deserved a bit more, but the NCAA and Colleges were a bit hamstrung by Title IX rules, so they just can't outright give a set salary, because then they would have to do it with women's volleyball and gender equity pay, and all of this, so this was their way to navigate this. I think it would have probably been best as before, under the table, just don't have an enforcement to it, but at least even the mere threat or published investigation kept some brakes on these things, now it is legal, what do you think Alabama and Ohio State are going to do?

But back to the kids. I mean now kids skipping their Sr year of High School to enroll early. Are we insane? I think to Canada and Jr Hockey, and yes a 15 year old Sidney Crosby left home, to play Juniors, but he was riding the busses, and living in boarding houses, playing in front of a couple of thousand people not like a 16-17 year olds playing on national TV and 100K cheering in the stands. Even the NHL, when they bring an 18 year old kid into the league, they usually set them up with a local family to live on so they aren't on their own, and these are pros. What messages are we sending to these kids? They are so selfish now to begin with.

I truly believe one reason why baseball is dying as far as participation is concerned, is young athletes don't want to put in the time in the minor leagues, riding busses from Durham to Chattanooga, where playing big time college football or basketball, they are flying in jets, staying in nice hotels, playing in front of large crowds on national TV. Kids, hell people now, we all feel entitled. No one buys "starter homes" anymore, they immediate want a 3000 sq ft (or more) new construction house in a tree lined neighborhood and then feel they have to be paid to afford it. No one seems to want to start out at the bottom.

We are creating a monster and a mess. What is next? Even in the pro sports there are rules, there doesn't seem to be any rules here. The inmates are running the asylum. They are going to kill this thing, you watch. Signing off, old man yelling at clouds.
You don’t work? :)
 
I don't blame kids for wanting to get paid given how much money is made off of their backs. But the game is now largely a loosely regulated, lower level pro league. I have very little interest in watching that. My interest, even in watching Pitt games, is fading fast.
 
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One other thing, sure as a "capitalist", but at the end of the day, Pro Leagues are set up with a draft and contract rules and in most cases save for MLB, a salary cap. This has none of that. So there are going to be many envelopes pushed and lines crossed.

It's going to be a mess. But what I don't get, even parents, parents seem not to want to allow their kids to just be kids. From pay for play traveling teams to now pushing them to early entry or now all of this, they seem completely selfish in their own right and not protecting their kids and allowing them to have fun.

I mean in my mid 50's now, best and fondest times was sat riding a bike to practice with my buddies, stopping off for pizza slice afterwards, or playing Ozanam summer hoops. All of this.....believe it or not....without my mommy and daddy there to guide me through every second. We figured it out on our own. Guys coached. Parents, most of them, stayed away. Oh there were pushy ones, but you know guys like Dan Marino, Joe Montana, Bill Fralic, Lavar Arrington played football in the fall, baseball in the spring/summer and didn't have all of these travel, AAU, 7 on 7 teams, and they all managed out okay.

If you are good, they will find you. Not playing and going to these camps may have cost Darrelle Revis and Malik Hooker "stars" on sites like this, but again Major College Football found them, and the NFL paid them millions. I don't know why we are rushing kids, I always say that kids now a days are allowed "no middle". They are either the most driven, focused, worldly, or they are complete morons and rejects. No in between. No allowing them to find their own lanes and speed. Much like our politics now.
Problem is, time and specialization “work”. For a future superman, playing a bunch of sports sure seems like the way to go - to reduce burnout, if nothing else. For those not quite so good, the difference between specializing, and not, is ending a ‘career’ before high school. From my experience in the ballet world, 99% of parents are more than happy to have their kids keep going, or quit. We are well aware of the sacrifices and the fact that that with few exceptions, our little Tommy or Bella isn’t going pro, and if they do - they still aren’t making much money. Furthermore, I sure as heck didn’t want to be the one forcing my daughter to quit and having her wonder if I cost her a shot - and I suspect other parents feel the same way.

What I think really sucks about this stratified system, is the kids never get to be really good. Heck, they don’t even get to enjoy being a 10 year old and beating up on 9 year olds because that would involve the unthinkable act of forming a new team each year.

I just know I am grateful I went to a high school that had 10 million sports and didn’t cut. Was able and to make some lower profile varsity teams and experience the trite, but true, thrill of victory and agony of defeat.
 
Think about this NIL stuff and everything that is going on with college sports, what are we doing? And this goes down into High School. In college, I lived in some absolute dives, ate alot of ramen noodles, pizza and wings was fine dining, drank the cheapest beer or liquor. I was lucky enough to have parents of some means that I didn't have to struggle, but wasn't rich by any stretch. We walked everywhere. We found free food everywhere. We made good with what we had. And I wouldn't trade those years for anything. We had a blast. Most college students lived like this. The athletes, they always had it a bit better. More perks. More adulation. More opportunities (especially with women).

High School may have been better than college even in some respects. You were protected, in a cocoon. You had a chance to make childish mistakes, learn from them. You got yelled at, you got in trouble. If you played sports, you really got yelled, maybe even called a bad name or two. All of this gave you some foundation, kept you somewhat grounded. You understood that there is a path, you have to do the work, you aren't going to get everything handed to you. Now? We want everything right away, no matter what. Why? Because there are rich people making loads of money off of this, so I should too! I don't have this love of rich people at all, they are in many cases despicable. But I don't have this overwhelming sense of "getting even", this "workers of the world unite" mentality that has been perpetuated by the selfie generation. Me. Me. Me. Mine. Mine. Mine.

I understand the farce of big time college athletics, the "student" part of student athlete probably applies less than we care to admit. It is opportunities, something NIL cannot provide, opportunities to showcase you for whatever Pro League, and certainly opportunities to get and education, skills, and set yourself up for a career. And even moreso than most of the general student population, opportunities that come with the network of being a former player, that maybe gives you an edge over other prospective job applicants.

Plus, there were always perks. I also agree some of the NCAA rules and regs were just draconian and outdates, unrealistic and stupid. Who cares if a player sells clothes or gets a free tattoo. Who cares if a coach buys an airfare ticket for a homesick kid to fly home to see his family. It is crap like that that has led to where we are. Now? It is just a marketing free for all in team sports. That can't end well. Brand has become more important than talent and success. Is this old man yelling at clouds take? Maybe. But here are what some agents, you know those guys who get money for their clients think:

The following is an excerpt from an Athletic Interview/Survey on a multitude of NFL agents:

4. How do you see the name, image and likeness (NIL) permissions factoring into your recruiting of draft prospects?

“Just a complete catastrophe. An arms race to see which agencies can buy the most players at the earliest stages, then keep them happy and then buy them again before the draft. It’s absolute lunacy. The marketplace has destroyed the integrity of our industry..”

“The NIL is a new cesspool. All this did was open up a can of worms that makes everyone think they’re brandable. I’m not mad at the kids, and it is a step forward.”

“Some agents are going to use NIL to sign players ASAP, which is happening. Others will stay in their lane. I think it’s going to be all over the map. … From an agent’s perspective, every kid is going to be different. Some will still emphasize football when choosing an agent, but some will separate marketing and agents.”

“I think it’s allowing less-talented, less-experienced agents to sway kids with promises that I’m not so sure they’re able to keep. These so-called agents are using this as an entry to a world they never would have gotten in otherwise. If the players can make money off their name, great, but will some of these agents deliver?”

“It’s changed the whole game. Marketing agencies can now sign 18-year-olds coming out of high school. This could be beneficial for agents if kids are loyal, but also a challenge if other agents promise a lot when it comes to signing kids for the draft. Definitely beneficial for the kids.”

“It’s already the No. 1 topic, hands down. Big focus for these players. It’s the most pressing topic of conversation. It’s already caused the agent community to become involved in these player’s lives and decisions as early as their freshmen year. It’s not good for anybody, and I think it will hurt more kids. I wouldn’t normally talk to any kid until their draft-eligible year.”

“There are a lot of (agents) who have already broken the rules. I’ve had multiple players show me NIL texts from agents (that discuss monthly payments).”

“Some people will take advantage of naive kids to gain a business advantage, but some will educate them. Agents that help will be rewarded.”

“The top prospects will be bought and paid for long before they get to the NFL Draft. I’m hearing about big payments already. I guess it’s legal now, depending on who you ask.”


Like I said, maybe the players deserved a bit more, but the NCAA and Colleges were a bit hamstrung by Title IX rules, so they just can't outright give a set salary, because then they would have to do it with women's volleyball and gender equity pay, and all of this, so this was their way to navigate this. I think it would have probably been best as before, under the table, just don't have an enforcement to it, but at least even the mere threat or published investigation kept some brakes on these things, now it is legal, what do you think Alabama and Ohio State are going to do?

But back to the kids. I mean now kids skipping their Sr year of High School to enroll early. Are we insane? I think to Canada and Jr Hockey, and yes a 15 year old Sidney Crosby left home, to play Juniors, but he was riding the busses, and living in boarding houses, playing in front of a couple of thousand people not like a 16-17 year olds playing on national TV and 100K cheering in the stands. Even the NHL, when they bring an 18 year old kid into the league, they usually set them up with a local family to live on so they aren't on their own, and these are pros. What messages are we sending to these kids? They are so selfish now to begin with.

I truly believe one reason why baseball is dying as far as participation is concerned, is young athletes don't want to put in the time in the minor leagues, riding busses from Durham to Chattanooga, where playing big time college football or basketball, they are flying in jets, staying in nice hotels, playing in front of large crowds on national TV. Kids, hell people now, we all feel entitled. No one buys "starter homes" anymore, they immediate want a 3000 sq ft (or more) new construction house in a tree lined neighborhood and then feel they have to be paid to afford it. No one seems to want to start out at the bottom.

We are creating a monster and a mess. What is next? Even in the pro sports there are rules, there doesn't seem to be any rules here. The inmates are running the asylum. They are going to kill this thing, you watch. Signing off, old man yelling at clouds.
Couple of quick questions from someone who might be considered part of the "Me. Me. Me. Mine. Mine. Mine." generation.

Why does it matter to you, someone who is in no way personally or professional affected by the changes in NIL? Why do you think your opinion matters in a situation that directly affects thousands of families in the country every, because it might affect your Saturday afternoon hobby?

It sounds a bit to me like someone that values their hobby over the lives of those less well-off might just have a "Me. Me. Me. Mine. Mine. Mine." problem.
 
Couple of quick questions from someone who might be considered part of the "Me. Me. Me. Mine. Mine. Mine." generation.

Why does it matter to you, someone who is in no way personally or professional affected by the changes in NIL? Why do you think your opinion matters in a situation that directly affects thousands of families in the country every, because it might affect your Saturday afternoon hobby?

It sounds a bit to me like someone that values their hobby over the lives of those less well-off might just have a "Me. Me. Me. Mine. Mine. Mine." problem.
There it is, the workers of the world unite. Because you aren't allowed to be a kid. Too many adults control your lives. You are selfish. No one cares how you feel today. You expect to get paid what I get paid, yet you have nowhere near the experience and knowledge of what I have. And it appears in many cases, you aren't willing to put in the time and effort to gather this knowledge. It hurts our country. Sorry.

Hey, at some point I will be gone and you will be learning Mandarin. Not by choice. Go for it dude.
 
There it is, the workers of the world unite. Because you aren't allowed to be a kid. Too many adults control your lives. You are selfish. No one cares how you feel today. You expect to get paid what I get paid, yet you have nowhere near the experience and knowledge of what I have. And it appears in many cases, you aren't willing to put in the time and effort to gather this knowledge. It hurts our country. Sorry.

Hey, at some point I will be gone and you will be learning Mandarin. Not by choice. Go for it dude.
Quick question. If players get paid or have the rights to their own names and accomplishments, how does that affect your life again?
 
So rich agents are now challenged by new comers .. that’s capitalism adapt or find a different path. Apparently they feel Roc Nation is bad?

 
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