How can Narduzzi turn this whole culture and team around so fast while a guy like Wannstedt couldn't

[mdpitt]

I mean, okay we can look at a guy like Chryst who had no emotion, couldn't and wouldn't speak and his lifeless attitude carried down to the players. I can see that.

Here's what I'm trying to put my finger on - Wannstedt was a Pittsburgh guy. Wannstedt was a motivator like Narduzzi - he had a fire and he was passionate on the sidelines. He also brought some quality players to Pitt. So why the heck could he win the big game or 2 occasionally but his career here for the most part was really a failure???

Yes, I know it's super early with Narduzzi but the amazing thing is that he is doing this with mostly average guys and without Connor.

If Wannstedt hired a dynamic Offensive Coordinator that matched what was going on in the Big East, he would still be here. Wanny was a great defensive mind but his conservative approach on offense doomed him. If he simply had someone that loved recruiting and loved taking shots instead of taking a couple of knees before the half with a minute left in the first half, he would still be here. College football changed a lot on his watch but he did not on offense.

I liked Wanny but it was a squandered opportunity with his offensive image.

 

[pantherzooh2p]

Wanny did start 6-1 his second year and we thought we turned the corner only to lose the last 5 games. He won the first 6 games in blowouts for the most part. Most probably thought he was the savior at that time.

 

[Jpripper88]

I mean, okay we can look at a guy like Chryst who had no emotion, couldn't and wouldn't speak and his lifeless attitude carried down to the players. I can see that.

Here's what I'm trying to put my finger on - Wannstedt was a Pittsburgh guy. Wannstedt was a motivator like Narduzzi - he had a fire and he was passionate on the sidelines. He also brought some quality players to Pitt. So why the heck could he win the big game or 2 occasionally but his career here for the most part was really a failure???

Yes, I know it's super early with Narduzzi but the amazing thing is that he is doing this with mostly average guys and without Connor.

Because Dave cracked under even a modicum of pressure.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I am still of the opinion that Cap is not a human, but a cyber.bot who's been fed every byte of data in regards to college football in this region.

 

[PITTLAW]

Wanny was the Peter Principle in action.... good coordinator, but not a good head coach. Horrible game day decisions game after game.

Whether you agree with what you say, or not, why is it relevant to discuss? Pitt has had far worse coaches than Wannstedt--do we really have to rehash that time and time again? Finally Pitt seems to have a head coach that gets college football and the kids that play it....why not focus on him? Hail to Pitt!

 

[oldpantherfan]

A few things people are forgetting is 1. Wannestedt was a terrible game day coach and Narduzzi average( every game shouldn't be a close game and not a big win yet) until proven otherwise. 2.Wannestedt came in with hardly anything in the cupboard when he got here and because of what I pointed out in the first statement Pitt struggled. Narduzzi inherited the incoming ACC player of the year, one of the best receivers in the country, good talent and depth on the o line, and despite what many think great talent on the defense, which suffered through bad coaching. He even got one of the best players in the state in the incoming class (whitehead), from the former coach, so actually saying he is turning it around with average players is incorrect. 3.Pitt had a bad reputation with local (and national ) recruits. Wannestedt changed that and even had a top 20 class coming in before getting fired. Narduzzi has yet to get a recruiting class but with a good season this year should easily get a top 25 one even with a late start. 4. Bad support from AD, administration, and fans. So I think the comparison is unfair and unnecessary.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Um, and I say this with the uttmost respect but - what the heck are you talking about? Causing trouble lol?? It was just a question I posted on the message board. You seem to be taking this "I hate everything Steve Pederson" agenda to the extreme Captain.My suggestion, take a couple valium and relax. We're all on the same side buddy, we want Pitt to be a top destination for recruits and to win National Championships. Narduzzi is a good start.

Once again, do you really think it was good question, and could you not answer it on your own terms since you asked it? All Coaches want to win a NCS! Harris, Wannstedt, Graham and Chryst all contributed to what Narduzzi is doing today, just like Warner, Sutherland and others before them?

Harris had his Fitzgerald & Revis, Wanntedt had Revis & McCoy, Graham & Chryst got Donald, Boyd, & Connor, Narduzzi got Whitehead, Peterman!

Wannstedt won and did his job wit Harris, Graham and Chryst left ASAP, Narduzzi wanted to come to Pitt and Pitt still has so much to do!

Enjoy the game!

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Whether you agree with what you say, or not, why is it relevant to discuss? Pitt has had far worse coaches than Wannstedt--do we really have to rehash that time and time again? Finally Pitt seems to have a head coach that gets college football and the kids that play it....why not focus on him? Hail to Pitt!

Amen!

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I may be naive but I think the turn around has something to do with the character of the kids Chryst brought in. These kids are quality citizens with high football IQ's. They were getting crappy football coaching with the old staff. PN and his crew came in with expertise and enthusiasm, the team bought in and the culture changed. I don't know if it happens with many of the guys Wanny recruited.

I agree..
Chryst brought in football players.
Wanny tried to bring in athletes and make them players.

Give me football players, every time.

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

What confuses me is that pitt's offense has played it pretty close to the vest all season. it is one of the reasons why these games are always close.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

If Wannstedt hired a dynamic Offensive Coordinator that matched what was going on in the Big East, he would still be here. Wanny was a great defensive mind but his conservative approach on offense doomed him. If he simply had someone that loved recruiting and loved taking shots instead of taking a couple of knees before the half with a minute left in the first half, he would still be here. College football changed a lot on his watch but he did not on offense.

I liked Wanny but it was a squandered opportunity with his offensive image.

Wanny's defenses let him down the most. Let's be honest.

It was his stubborn DEFENSIVE philosophy which killed him in college.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I mean, okay we can look at a guy like Chryst who had no emotion, couldn't and wouldn't speak and his lifeless attitude carried down to the players. I can see that.

Here's what I'm trying to put my finger on - Wannstedt was a Pittsburgh guy. Wannstedt was a motivator like Narduzzi - he had a fire and he was passionate on the sidelines. He also brought some quality players to Pitt. So why the heck could he win the big game or 2 occasionally but his career here for the most part was really a failure???

Yes, I know it's super early with Narduzzi but the amazing thing is that he is doing this with mostly average guys and without Connor.

Wanny wasn't a motivator. He wasn't respected by his players. Even high character kids like Scott McKillop would do Wannstedt impressions- mocking him referencing Jimmy Johnson, etc.

Wanny was a Rah-Rah guy...not a motivator.

 

[PittPoker]

Wanny's defenses let him down the most. Let's be honest.

It was his stubborn DEFENSIVE philosophy which killed him in college.

Really?? 13-9 seemed like pretty good defense to me. I tend to think he was waaaayyyy to conservative on the offensive front.

 

[franklinfan62788]

OC Cavanaugh did nothing for the offense,and the only good year a Pitt QB had, was 09 w/Stull. QB was Pitts downfall during DWs 6 years.Bills injury early in 07 set the QB position back 2 years and Smith and Bostick did not get the job done.

 

[Gondel]

The reason Narduzzi has "changed" the culture is easy; they are WINNING and doing it QUICKLY! But lose the next 3 games, which is quite possible, and....let's see what people say about changing the culture.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

I agree..
Chryst brought in football players.
Wanny tried to bring in athletes and make them players.

Give me football players, every time.

Actually it wasn't a bad idea. Tommy Campbell was an athlete who turned into a good player somewhere else. Problem was Wannstedt couldn't figure out what his position should be.

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

I agree with pittlaw on this one.

To play the op game though, did anyone listen to the stewart Mandel podcast where wanny was the guest and talked about his time at the u? He told a story of one game Miami was winning big and the halftime show was one of his favorite bands. So instead of coaching at halftime, he and some of the coaches watched the show instead. I don't see Narduzzi doing something like that

Yes, I did listen to that podcast... Just to see if Wannstedt would say something to further demonstrate (as he often does) why he was never as successful as he should have been at Pitt. He comes from the mind set of "If you get enough good players you don't really have to do too much as a coach to win." Unfortunately for him, he's proven that just is not the case. Every time he opens his mouth, you learn a little bit more about his lack of attention to detail and why he lost so many games that he should have won.

As a Pitt fan, I honestly don't feel joy in saying such things, because he loves his alma mater and he did work hard to help bring in some solid recruits during his time in an attempt to try and bring Pitt back to being an elite program. But we were in need of someone who could give us so much more.

We needed someone who had real answers. We needed someone who knew how to call smart plays with players being in the right position to make those plays. We needed someone who knew where and what the problems were during a game and how to fix them. We needed someone who knew how to make proper adjustments at halftime. We needed someone who could get the players jacked up for the fourth quarter to pump up their confidence and we needed someone who had a smart plan for "going for the win" at the end of the game... Instead of "playing not to lose."

Fortunately, we now seem to have that man... Pat is where it's At!

Hail to Pitt!

 

[Jpripper88]

I may be naive but I think the turn around has something to do with the character of the kids Chryst brought in. These kids are quality citizens with high football IQ's. They were getting crappy football coaching with the old staff. PN and his crew came in with expertise and enthusiasm, the team bought in and the culture changed. I don't know if it happens with many of the guys Wanny recruited.

I think that is the answer, yes.

 

[TD_6082]

Actually it wasn't a bad idea. Tommy Campbell was an athlete who turned into a good player somewhere else. Problem was Wannstedt couldn't figure out what his position should be.

Tommie Campbell just isn't a football player and doesn't have a very high football IQ. Did you see him with the TItans? The dude just can't play.

 

[TD_6082]

Wanny's defenses let him down the most. Let's be honest.

It was his stubborn DEFENSIVE philosophy which killed him in college.

It wasn't so much his philosophy as it was shoddy recruiting. He did a great job recruiting along the DL, but the back 7 left a lot to be desired.

As for bringing in football players versus athletes. That's a toughy. I think some guys are so athletic, you want to try to develop them find a place for them somewhere. Sometimes that works out, sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Las Panteras]

Had Wanny's prize QB recruit played like the 5 star he was in HS instead of an effin statue....Pitt's football fortunes would be completely different today.

Am I the only one who sees the irony of a major disappointment on the field ending up being the new voice of Pitt Football?

 

[Seneca_Valley]

Had Wanny's prize QB recruit played like the 5 star he was in HS instead of an effin statue....Pitt's football fortunes would be completely different today.

Am I the only one who sees the irony of a major disappointment on the field ending up being the new voice of Pitt Football?

It was never lost on me.

 

[thebadby2]

I sat with someone who knew Pitt, and who knew how to coach (multiple sports), and his comment was, "Wanny just doesn't know how to think ahead, or how to coach college football." He was supported by Jimmy Johnson and rode his coat tails for years, until he was an NFL head coach. Every team he coached went down hill quickly. He only had one very good recruiting year.
2005: team not ready/well coached, embarrasing losses
2006: didn't beat anyone good, 2-4 in BE!
2007: 5-7 record, not overcome by the fine win against the hoopies.
2008: good season, aside from embarrasing losses to Bowling Green, Rutgers & Cincy. No BCS bowl.
2009: Major asterisk season, good-looking record, except for the fact that two collapse losses meant again no BE Champ/BCS bowl. Ugly loss in the Sun bowl.
2010: Typical Wanny team, 8-5 record, did not beat any quality teams, rediculous loss to Uconn. Wanny fired, good riddens!

Again, from someone who loves Pitt, Chryst was soooo not inspiring or charismatic! Ok, that is not everything in coaching; Wanny and Walt had plenty of personality, but Chryst only stabalized the team, he didn't "turn the program aroun". In short, good coaches improve their teams, inspire alumni/donors etc.



QUOTE="PittPoker, post: 455252, member: 2776"]I mean, okay we can look at a guy like Chryst who had no emotion, couldn't and wouldn't speak and his lifeless attitude carried down to the players. I can see that.

Here's what I'm trying to put my finger on - Wannstedt was a Pittsburgh guy. Wannstedt was a motivator like Narduzzi - he had a fire and he was passionate on the sidelines. He also brought some quality players to Pitt. So why the heck could he win the big game or 2 occasionally but his career here for the most part was really a failure???

Yes, I know it's super early with Narduzzi but the amazing thing is that he is doing this with mostly average guys and without Connor.

[/QUOTE]
Walt had plenty of personality?

I must've missed that.

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

Had Wanny's prize QB recruit played like the 5 star he was in HS instead of an effin statue....Pitt's football fortunes would be completely different today.

Am I the only one who sees the irony of a major disappointment on the field ending up being the new voice of Pitt Football?

"Now as we watch this replay again, you will see how Peterman had the patience to hang in pocket there and take a sack... almost as beautifully as I did in my day."

Actually, I can't blame it all on him. After all, it's not like he was the only QB who struggled under Wandstedt.

 

[JSSTartan]

Wannstedt is a nice guy, loved Pitt, loved the city, but he's a blockhead in his philosophy, a bit corny in his leadership, a too much of a player's coach.

Narduzzi comess off more like the alpha male in a lion pride or Darth Vader. Smart, cunning, meticulous, organized, ruthless. Hard to believe no one grabbed him before Pitt did. His teams are just as smashmouth as Wannstedts but they're more clever. He's setting his opponents up then whole time and it's winning games and respect.

Duzz is Michael Corleone
Wannstest is Sonny (I hesitate to say Luca Brasi lol)

+1

 

[thebadby2]

Wanny was the Peter Principle in action.... good coordinator, but not a good head coach. Horrible game day decisions game after game.

Sounds more like the Foge Principle.

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

I love Narduzzi, but aren't we getting a little ahead of ourselves here? Isn't it a little premature to declare that Narduzzi has turned the team and the culture around already. Yes, we are 6 & 1 (feels good to type that). But, and it is a but so big that Sir-Mix-A-Lot would rap about it, we have only played 1 good team so far and while we performed well, we still lost. Plus, the poster that said that Chryst left a lot to work with as far as talent and brains has a great point.

Bottom line here is that I'm 100% behind Narduzzi, but lets let things play out before we crown him as our savior. It is unfair to him to have to bear that burden at this point and only sets us up for disappointment if we lose the next two (which is a distinct possibility). To me, the best way to get behind Narduzzi and support him is to not burden him with unreasonable expectations.

I think we are clearly seeing evidence he is improving both. The team is now 6-1 and Pitt players are pumped up and ready to attack in the fourth qtr vs. sitting back, biting their nails, hoping they don't blow it. I've asked this before... Does anyone really think Chryst or any of our other recent coaches would be 6-1 right now, Honestly?

However... you are right that everyone would be wise (including the players) to remember that the toughest games lie ahead. The team will need to keep getting better in order to win some of those games. I am concerned about Thursday's game in particular. While North Carolina is not in the top 25, they have beaten the teams both they and Pitt played this year by a wider margin. That should at least get Pitt players feeling they need to take this game very seriously and "bring it" on every play.

Do we have a shot at running the table the rest of the regular season? Absolutely! These kids need to believe it. They can not ever believe otherwise. Coach PN is helping them to do just that. If they give it everything they've got and somehow come up short in a game or two, I don't think it would be fair for any of us to feel anything but proud. All we can ask is that everyone gives their best effort- Coaches and players - and believe they can beat anyone.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Yes, I did listen to that podcast... Just to see if Wannstedt would say something to further demonstrate (as he often does) why he was never as successful as he should have been at Pitt. He comes from the mind set of "If you get enough good players you don't really have to do too much as a coach to win." Unfortunately for him, he's proven that just is not the case. Every time he opens his mouth, you learn a little bit more about his lack of attention to detail and why he lost so many games that he should have won.

As a Pitt fan, I honestly don't feel joy in saying such things, because he loves his alma mater and he did work hard to help bring in some solid recruits during his time in an attempt to try and bring Pitt back to being an elite program. But we were in need of someone who could give us so much more.

We needed someone who had real answers. We needed someone who knew how to call smart plays with players being in the right position to make those plays. We needed someone who knew where and what the problems were during a game and how to fix them. We needed someone who knew how to make proper adjustments at halftime. We needed someone who could get the players jacked up for the fourth quarter to pump up their confidence and we needed someone who had a smart plan for "going for the win" at the end of the game... Instead of "playing not to lose."

Fortunately, we now seem to have that man... Pat is where it's At!

Hail to Pitt!

Excellent Post and my feelings exactly. Dave loved Pitt but his little details missing and know it all thoughts never mesh into wins that were losses and could have been prevented. He is a great DC and Broadcasters not a Head Coach.

 

[rpost3]

Wannstedt's a loyal well-meaning meathead whose dependence on out-muscling and intimidating his opponents eventually led to his downfall. That's why he's Sonny.

Look how Michael dealt w/ Carlo. "Your punishment is you're out of the family business." Heh sure it is bro. BTW Clemenza will take you to the airport LOL.
Look how Sonny dealt w/ Carlo. Roid rage, Hulk Smash, must kill, nobody messes with a Corleone woman, Imma kill that muthafu...aaaaaaaaannnndd wait...why is the guy in the toll booth ducking?

Todd Graham is Mo Green. Brash, naive big mouth who who was never really part of the family and doesn't know when to shut the f up. His downfall will be epic when it happens.

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

Wannstedt's a loyal well-meaning meathead whose dependence on out-muscling and intimidating his opponents eventually led to his downfall. That's why he's Sonny.

Look how Michael dealt w/ Carlo. "You're punishment is you're out of the family business." Heh sure it is bro. BTW Clemenza will take you to the airport LOL.
Look how Sonny dealt w/ Carlo. Roid rage, Hulk Smash, must kill, nobody messes with a Corleone woman, Imma kill that muthafu...aaaaaaaaannnndd wait...why is the guy in the tool booth ducking?

Todd Graham is Mo Green. Brash, naive big mouth who who was never really part of the family and doesn't know when to shut the f up. His downfall will be epic when it happens.

Is Narduzzi Michael?...

Or is Gallagher Michael... And Carlo is Pederson... Think about it.

 

[bocaspartan]

[QUOTE="Nards is older, but he is 100 percent a college coach.....[/QUOTE]


FWIW-Narduzzi was 48 when hired by PITT, DW was 52.

 

[raleighpanther]

Wow, a post with like 50 interesting comments, and no one has co-opted it and brought up the need for an on-campus stadium.
This is meant as a joke. Please don't bring up the on-campus stadium issue. Oh shit, I guess I already did.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Really?? 13-9 seemed like pretty good defense to me. I tend to think he was waaaayyyy to conservative on the offensive front.

Yep..you mean that 5 win season?

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Had Wanny's prize QB recruit played like the 5 star he was in HS instead of an effin statue....Pitt's football fortunes would be completely different today.

Am I the only one who sees the irony of a major disappointment on the field ending up being the new voice of Pitt Football?

It's not a coincidence that not once, ever..has Wanny had a good qb play while he was a coach. At any level, with any team. Because he didn't recognize that position's value. It's not in his DNA.

Pat is a very cerebral guy, who clearly has a good understanding of the game and strategy. Being a good broadcaster and being a quality player are different skills.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Harris & Chryst were Great OCs and Elite QBs Coaches, but incomplete when it came to Defense and lost games every year with poor Special Teams. Graham also Offensive Coach! Haywood No Longer a Coach!

Wannstedt was a Defensive Coach and not paying attention to details in choosing OC and his Special teams were average. He rebuilt Pitt's Recruiting that Harris got forlorn about but he had trouble developing his recruits and Players with just 17 Hours a week. Preparation was not a high point trait in him either nor Half Time Adjustments!

Coach Narduzzi is a complete Head Coach & CEO following in the Steps of Dantonio his Mentor and making sure Offense, Defense, and Special Teams have Good Assistants running them. Needs sometime to rebuild Recruiting but will get there.

Johnny Majors knew how to attract some of Best and Brightest Coaches to his Staff but left for UTenn his destination in his Heart all along and later regretted it.

Jackie Sherrill made Pitt even better after Johnny but had difficulties with the New AD Bozik, so Jackie took the biggest money ever offered to a CFB Coach in 1982 and left for A&M and regretted leaving Pitt too?

Both were great Complete CEO Coaches too!

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Had Wanny's prize QB recruit played like the 5 star he was in HS instead of an effin statue....Pitt's football fortunes would be completely different today.

Am I the only one who sees the irony of a major disappointment on the field ending up being the new voice of Pitt Football?

Let's be honest.....what exactly did you see that even remotely would lead one to rate Bostick 5 stars? One attribute? Name it? This was just a complete miss by those who run sites like this.

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

Johnny Majors knew how to attract some of Best and Brightest Coaches to his Staff but left for UTenn his destination in his Heart all along and later regretted it.

Jackie Sherrill made Pitt even better after Johnny but had difficulties with the New AD Bozik, so Jackie took the biggest money ever offered to a CFB Coach in 1982 and left for A&M and regretted leaving Pitt too?

Both were great Complete CEO Coaches too!

Pitt is a beautiful "destination job" for a talented coach if he is just wise enough to stick around and let it be.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

I am still of the opinion that Cap is not a human, but a cyber.bot who's been fed every byte of data in regards to college football in this region.

I am watching you and you do compute! HAL 2001!

 

[DruidTM]

Really?? 13-9 seemed like pretty good defense to me. I tend to think he was waaaayyyy to conservative on the offensive front.

13-9 was great... Too bad it never occurred again (or before) with Whaaannie! Couldn't make a single stop with Cinci in 09 either...

 

[thebadby2]

Yep..you mean that 5 win season?

LOL. So true.

It will be nice when we can someday replace ruining someone else's great season with a great season of our own as our crowning achievement of the last 25 years.