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I don't think people realize how many jobs this is about to destroy.

CJsE

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Mar 5, 2016
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So on top of the tariffs that are making many local foreign countries open their arms up to more Chinese investment and imports, the administration is getting closer and closer to absolutely destroying our export industry in the western hemisphere. I don't think many people realize just how much this is going to destroy a $50 billion export industry in the southern US.

A new duty of $1-1.5 million for every Chinese manufactured ship that docks in a US port is on the horizon. This won't do much to hurt the massive container ships, but probably $50 billion worth of goods are shipped through the Gulf of Mexico to our regional neighbors on ships with a capacity of fewer than 400 containers, many with a capacity under 200 containers. So we're probably talking about an extra $3-8,000 per 40' container (which is anywhere from a 75%-200% rate increase depending on where it's shipping.)

This will do nothing to harm the largest ocean freight companies that have an oligopoly over most of the US overseas shipping and are owned and operated by foreign entities, but Florida alone will lose tens of thousands of jobs between ports, regional freight companies, export companies, manufacturers, etc.

It will also crush a lot of local production all along the coasts because the ocean freight companies will cut many of their stops at the smaller ports along the coasts to reduce their port fees. So I guess a boon is coming for the rail industry.

But hey, just don't use Chinese ships...except China produces more commercial tonnage every year than the US has produced since WWII. The US hasn't been competitive in ship building for more than 30 years and our shipyards have focused on lucrative Navy contracts. Even if they started the new duties now, the first container ship from a new shipyard probably wouldn't get delivered until 2030 and it'd take more than a decade to start producing even 1/10 of the US shipping demand. So it's more likely that this duty will get eliminated before it has any major affect on US ship manufacturing, but increase production in other, better equipped countries that already build 10x the commercial ships than the US does. In the meantime, thousands of US small businesses will be crushed or consolidated.

I tried to find an article written from a neutral perspective.
 
So on top of the tariffs that are making many local foreign countries open their arms up to more Chinese investment and imports, the administration is getting closer and closer to absolutely destroying our export industry in the western hemisphere. I don't think many people realize just how much this is going to destroy a $50 billion export industry in the southern US.

A new duty of $1-1.5 million for every Chinese manufactured ship that docks in a US port is on the horizon. This won't do much to hurt the massive container ships, but probably $50 billion worth of goods are shipped through the Gulf of Mexico to our regional neighbors on ships with a capacity of fewer than 400 containers, many with a capacity under 200 containers. So we're probably talking about an extra $3-8,000 per 40' container (which is anywhere from a 75%-200% rate increase depending on where it's shipping.)

This will do nothing to harm the largest ocean freight companies that have an oligopoly over most of the US overseas shipping and are owned and operated by foreign entities, but Florida alone will lose tens of thousands of jobs between ports, regional freight companies, export companies, manufacturers, etc.

It will also crush a lot of local production all along the coasts because the ocean freight companies will cut many of their stops at the smaller ports along the coasts to reduce their port fees. So I guess a boon is coming for the rail industry.

But hey, just don't use Chinese ships...except China produces more commercial tonnage every year than the US has produced since WWII. The US hasn't been competitive in ship building for more than 30 years and our shipyards have focused on lucrative Navy contracts. Even if they started the new duties now, the first container ship from a new shipyard probably wouldn't get delivered until 2030 and it'd take more than a decade to start producing even 1/10 of the US shipping demand. So it's more likely that this duty will get eliminated before it has any major affect on US ship manufacturing, but increase production in other, better equipped countries that already build 10x the commercial ships than the US does. In the meantime, thousands of US small businesses will be crushed or consolidated.

I tried to find an article written from a neutral perspective.
Short-term thinking.
 
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So on top of the tariffs that are making many local foreign countries open their arms up to more Chinese investment and imports, the administration is getting closer and closer to absolutely destroying our export industry in the western hemisphere. I don't think many people realize just how much this is going to destroy a $50 billion export industry in the southern US.

A new duty of $1-1.5 million for every Chinese manufactured ship that docks in a US port is on the horizon. This won't do much to hurt the massive container ships, but probably $50 billion worth of goods are shipped through the Gulf of Mexico to our regional neighbors on ships with a capacity of fewer than 400 containers, many with a capacity under 200 containers. So we're probably talking about an extra $3-8,000 per 40' container (which is anywhere from a 75%-200% rate increase depending on where it's shipping.)

This will do nothing to harm the largest ocean freight companies that have an oligopoly over most of the US overseas shipping and are owned and operated by foreign entities, but Florida alone will lose tens of thousands of jobs between ports, regional freight companies, export companies, manufacturers, etc.

It will also crush a lot of local production all along the coasts because the ocean freight companies will cut many of their stops at the smaller ports along the coasts to reduce their port fees. So I guess a boon is coming for the rail industry.

But hey, just don't use Chinese ships...except China produces more commercial tonnage every year than the US has produced since WWII. The US hasn't been competitive in ship building for more than 30 years and our shipyards have focused on lucrative Navy contracts. Even if they started the new duties now, the first container ship from a new shipyard probably wouldn't get delivered until 2030 and it'd take more than a decade to start producing even 1/10 of the US shipping demand. So it's more likely that this duty will get eliminated before it has any major affect on US ship manufacturing, but increase production in other, better equipped countries that already build 10x the commercial ships than the US does. In the meantime, thousands of US small businesses will be crushed or consolidated.

I tried to find an article written from a neutral perspective.
What the hell happened to sports or is this a political site? Tariffs are being used to bring industry to America creating numerous jobs and even the playing field. Trillions of dollars are pledged to new business ventures. The sky is not falling!
 
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Did anyone take a course on trade economics at Pitt or anywhere else? Sweeping tariffs historically never work and free trade almost always results in growth. Targetted tariffs may have their place, but what we’re seeing now is just wackado economics. Hopefully it won’t get out of hand, otherwise we’ll be screwed.
 
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What the hell happened to sports or is this a political site? Tariffs are being used to bring industry to America creating numerous jobs and even the playing field. Trillions of dollars are pledged to new business ventures. The sky is not falling!
Dude you're in the political forum within the overall Pitt sports forum. You don't realize this?

Football and basketball forums are down the hall, make a right, and go past the rest rooms, on the left.
 
So on top of the tariffs that are making many local foreign countries open their arms up to more Chinese investment and imports, the administration is getting closer and closer to absolutely destroying our export industry in the western hemisphere. I don't think many people realize just how much this is going to destroy a $50 billion export industry in the southern US.

A new duty of $1-1.5 million for every Chinese manufactured ship that docks in a US port is on the horizon. This won't do much to hurt the massive container ships, but probably $50 billion worth of goods are shipped through the Gulf of Mexico to our regional neighbors on ships with a capacity of fewer than 400 containers, many with a capacity under 200 containers. So we're probably talking about an extra $3-8,000 per 40' container (which is anywhere from a 75%-200% rate increase depending on where it's shipping.)

This will do nothing to harm the largest ocean freight companies that have an oligopoly over most of the US overseas shipping and are owned and operated by foreign entities, but Florida alone will lose tens of thousands of jobs between ports, regional freight companies, export companies, manufacturers, etc.

It will also crush a lot of local production all along the coasts because the ocean freight companies will cut many of their stops at the smaller ports along the coasts to reduce their port fees. So I guess a boon is coming for the rail industry.

But hey, just don't use Chinese ships...except China produces more commercial tonnage every year than the US has produced since WWII. The US hasn't been competitive in ship building for more than 30 years and our shipyards have focused on lucrative Navy contracts. Even if they started the new duties now, the first container ship from a new shipyard probably wouldn't get delivered until 2030 and it'd take more than a decade to start producing even 1/10 of the US shipping demand. So it's more likely that this duty will get eliminated before it has any major affect on US ship manufacturing, but increase production in other, better equipped countries that already build 10x the commercial ships than the US does. In the meantime, thousands of US small businesses will be crushed or consolidated.

I tried to find an article written from a neutral perspective.
Interesting. I am a Trump voter but have been concerned with tariffs all along. I think they are an unnecessary risk and could cause great pain in a lot of unforeseen areas like this.

I don't know why the left isn't attacking Trump more on tariffs to be honest.
 
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So far there’s almost 3 trillion dollars of investment into new mfg facilities that will create jobs. Question is how soon those new jobs will be added

It’s way too soon to assess the net benefit or negative impact of the tarrifs. If you’re not a partisan clown one can just as easily make sound arguments for as well as against
 
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Did anyone take a course on trade economics at Pitt or anywhere else? Sweeping tariffs historically never work and free trade almost always results in growth. Targetted tariffs may have their place, but what we’re seeing now is just wackado economics. Hopefully it won’t get out of hand, otherwise we’ll be screwed.
Really? How has free trade with Europe helped our auto industry?
 
Really? How has free trade with Europe helped our auto industry?

Even asking the question shows a lack of understanding. Up until the time Trump took over from Biden the U.S. economy was very strong — the envy of the world — and unemployment was low. The American auto industry was doing fine (especially Tesla), but that’s a moot point since trade is about the entire economy, not just one industry. (Note: American auto manufacturers are agains Trump’s trade war.)

American auto manufacturers sell vehicles throughout the entire world, and manufacturing is increasingly automated. Should we ban robots too, so they have to hire more workers like it’s 1920?

Elon Musk would be pissed if America banned robots and automation.

And by the way my German made vehicle is sweet.
 
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So far there’s almost 3 trillion dollars of investment into new mfg facilities that will create jobs. Question is how soon those new jobs will be added

It’s way too soon to assess the net benefit or negative impact of the tarrifs. If you’re not a partisan clown one can just as easily make sound arguments for as well as against
Make that 4 trillion due to the tarrifs
 
Interesting. I am a Trump voter but have been concerned with tariffs all along. I think they are an unnecessary risk and could cause great pain in a lot of unforeseen areas like this.

I don't know why the left isn't attacking Trump more on tariffs to be honest.
Yeah, this whole thing is a bit nuts. It will tax out tens of thousands of direct jobs, not even considering other jobs caught up in the wake of declining exports, to basically create an industry from scratch that will take at least a decade to create enough jobs to replace those that it will cost within the first year of the program. The US produces 0.2% of the global new constructions compared to China's 59%.

I could see a fee on new ships purchased from Chinese manufacturers to promote domestic production, but like 60% of all container and tanker vessels that trade with the US would be hit. Smaller vessel operators would be crushed, smaller ports which rely on regional carriers will die from not only those carriers ceasing business but also larger carriers will make less port calls (because it's a Levy PER PORT CALL).

One company that I work with employs thousands of people, they recently finished receiving their order on about $200 million in new container vessels that they placed almost a decade ago. They have basically already said that they likely won't be able to operate in the US with their fleet and have already started planning. They are far from the only ones.

Edit: To put it in perspective. Most of their vessels that service the Western Hemisphere have a capacity of around 300 TEU (twenty-foot equivalent unit), but some are around 150 TEU. The current proposal doesn't differentiate that sized ship from a 20,000 TEU container vessel. One is carrying $7-10 million worth of product and getting hit with a $1-1.5 million port fee, the other is carrying $700 million worth of product and getting hit with a $1-1.5 million port fee.
 
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Even asking the question shows a lack of understanding. Up until the time Trump took over from Biden the U.S. economy was very strong — the envy of the world — and unemployment was low. The American auto industry was doing fine (especially Tesla), but that’s a moot point since trade is about the entire economy, not just one industry. (Note: American auto manufacturers are agains Trump’s trade war.)

American auto manufacturers sell vehicles throughout the entire world, and manufacturing is increasingly automated. Should we ban robots too, so they have to hire more workers like it’s 1920?

Elon Musk would be pissed if America banned robots and automation.

And by the way my German made vehicle is sweet.
In 2022, 692,334 new EU-made cars were exported to the US, worth €36bn ($37bn; £30bn). While only 116,207 new US-made cars went in the opposite direction, for €5.2bn.

If you don't think that this translates to other industries, then you're sadly mistaken.

Despite your claims about automation, 923,000 Americans work in motor vehicles and parts manufacturing.
 
Despite your claims about automation, 923,000 Americans work in motor vehicles and parts

And that number will grow even smaller due to automation and AI. Tariff advocates are also closet Luddites.
 
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What the hell happened to sports or is this a political site? Tariffs are being used to bring industry to America creating numerous jobs and even the playing field. Trillions of dollars are pledged to new business ventures. The sky is not falling!

I'm sure this is nothing

 
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Since the year 2000, 5.5 million factory jobs lost, 91,000 factories closed in USA. How come Shapiro is not enticing Auto plants to open up in western pa. I know he was quoted as saying he's tired of getting his ass kicked by Ohio for these and other factories.
 
Tariffs will only protect US industries in the US market. Other countries are adding tariffs to US made goods so the US export markets are going to contract. And it is going to become more expensive to ship them on top of that.
 
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How long should it take someone to realize that this is dumb idea, by a dumb person, who still doesn't understand how tariffs work?
The craziest part is this will mean almost nothing to the international companies that operate the huge container, tanker, and general cargo containers. The $1-1.5 million fee will be a drop in the bucket per port call. But I don't think a single US company exists in the top 25 of those companies internationally.

But for the American owned companies that trade with Canada, Mexico, Latin America, South America, and the Caribbean are going to be absolutely screwed by this.

Pretty much the only domestic exporters that might be spared most of the fallout are farmers that produce soybeans, corn, and various other animal feeds. Those are generally shipped on bulk carriers, which are also barely produced in the US but are primarily produced in Japan rather than China.
 
The craziest part is this will mean almost nothing to the international companies that operate the huge container, tanker, and general cargo containers. The $1-1.5 million fee will be a drop in the bucket per port call. But I don't think a single US company exists in the top 25 of those companies internationally.

But for the American owned companies that trade with Canada, Mexico, Latin America, South America, and the Caribbean are going to be absolutely screwed by this.

Pretty much the only domestic exporters that might be spared most of the fallout are farmers that produce soybeans, corn, and various other animal feeds. Those are generally shipped on bulk carriers, which are also barely produced in the US but are primarily produced in Japan rather than China.

Canada already shifted to import all of their aluminum from China. They obviously would prefer to buy from the U.S. but at this point China is a more reliable trading partner.
 
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Even asking the question shows a lack of understanding. Up until the time Trump took over from Biden the U.S. economy was very strong — the envy of the world — and unemployment was low. The American auto industry was doing fine (especially Tesla), but that’s a moot point since trade is about the entire economy, not just one industry. (Note: American auto manufacturers are agains Trump’s trade war.)

American auto manufacturers sell vehicles throughout the entire world, and manufacturing is increasingly automated. Should we ban robots too, so they have to hire more workers like it’s 1920?

Elon Musk would be pissed if America banned robots and automation.

And by the way my German made vehicle is sweet.
Well stated - my BMW is SWEET!!
 
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Canada already shifted to import all of their aluminum from China. They obviously would prefer to buy from the U.S. but at this point China is a more reliable trading partner.
China just raised extreme tariffs on Canada not to mention China just executed 4 Canadians for bogus charges. I highly doubt Canada is thrilled to deal with China over the USA.
 
China just raised extreme tariffs on Canada not to mention China just executed 4 Canadians for bogus charges. I highly doubt Canada is thrilled to deal with China over the USA.

They openly have said that they are not thrilled with any of this disruption from dotard donny. Simply making the best of bad situation.
 
They openly have said that they are not thrilled with any of this disruption from dotard donny. Simply making the best of bad situation.
Of course China isn’t happy. They’ve been ass raping this country for decades and have been aided by all politicians in DC especially XIs whore Joe Biden
 
Just to show how this port fee won't be affecting the people that most people imagine it's hurting.
In 2024, 94% of all calls in Palm Beach were by Chinese-built ships, versus only 19% in Los Angeles. Palm Beach handled more calls by Chinese-built ships than Los Angeles, even though Los Angeles had five times as many total calls and reported 36 times more teu throughput...Seaboard Marine, the largest US-owned operator of international tonnage, said the port fee “would have the unintended consequence of putting US-owned carriers like Seaboard Marine out of business”.
To put in perspective how backwards it is to punish the Western Hemisphere export trade. These ships carry 1,200% increased value of exports than they do imports.
The CSO estimated that the aggregate cost of the port fees on its members would be as high as $69m per week or $3.6bn per year, “more than five times the total gross revenue of the CSO members in the CSO trades during 2024”.
The annual fees the government is trying to collect from American Owned Container Ship Operators would be 500% of their combined total revenue in 2024.
Tropical Shipping chief executive Tim Martin, who testified at the hearing on Monday, said in his submission to the USTR that the port fee proposal would “raise the cost of goods exported from the US to the Caribbean, which would cause a shift in $92.3bn export business away from the US to other countries”.
 
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The sky is falling
 
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So far there’s almost 3 trillion dollars of investment into new mfg facilities that will create jobs. Question is how soon those new jobs will be added

It’s way too soon to assess the net benefit or negative impact of the tarrifs. If you’re not a partisan clown one can just as easily make sound arguments for as well as against

Do you consider yourself a "partisan clown"?
 
Do you consider yourself a "partisan clown"?
If being concerned with and advocating for policies that put American citizens and workers first makes me a partisan clown then I’ll gladly wear that label

Otherwise I don’t shill for the Republican Party or at least the establishment R party that is no different than the Democratic Party. I also don’t agree with a number of things Trump says and does and that is well documented.

Hope that answers your question. As I said there are arguments to be made on both sides of Tarrifs. But the truth is we’ve been sold a false bill of goods on free trade for decades. There’s been nothing further from the truth. Other countries protect their industrial base and workers through Tarrifs and vat taxes while the US has basically allowed companies to get rich exporting jobs over seas and hollowing out the middle class and working class. All the while our country is less safe as we don’t make things anymore and rely on other country’s some our nem is such as China to produce them. I think JD Vance summarized it best in the video I attached in this thread
 
In simple terms, dotard donny ran on wrecking the U.S. economy. Idiotic cultist like yourself voted for him to wreck the economy. He's wrecking the economy.

You are a good little cultist. Congratulations.
Classic unhinged rant with zero substance

Truly one of the best things about Zion Don is he has all of the left losing their collective minds.

ZzrtJCt5MUqB.jpeg
 
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