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I thought this country had a longstanding policy of not negotiating with terrorists

we have to respect our legal system.
Right up to the point where the legal system crosses the line and becomes authoritarian. We have reached that point with some of these rulings. Rubio said it very well yesterday. Paraphrasing - "We have a separation of powers in the US. The Executive branch has the power to manage foreign relations and diplomacy. The courts have no power to tell us how to deal with El Salvador or require us to inform them of our diplomatic discussions."
 
Right up to the point where the legal system crosses the line and becomes authoritarian. We have reached that point with some of these rulings. Rubio said it very well yesterday. Paraphrasing - "We have a separation of powers in the US. The Executive branch has the power to manage foreign relations and diplomacy. The courts have no power to tell us how to deal with El Salvador or require us to inform them of our diplomatic discussions."

What are you talking about?

The legal system isn't telling the executive branch how to "deal with El Salvador." The legal system handles deportation/asylum cases. It made 2 rulings on Garcia and the executive branch defied both. The first that he couldn't be deported to ES (this was during Trump 45) and the 2nd to facilitate his return.

Here's where we would be in some agreement. If El Salvador asks the US to extradite someone who fled to the US, then, yes, the court cant keep him here. The argument would then become should we extradite an ES National, who has no criminal record in either country for a life sentence with no due process in that country? That's a moral/humanitarian debate, not a legal one. If the ES asks to extradite, the US State Dept can do so.
 
What are you talking about?

The legal system isn't telling the executive branch how to "deal with El Salvador." The legal system handles deportation/asylum cases. It made 2 rulings on Garcia and the executive branch defied both. The first that he couldn't be deported to ES (this was during Trump 45) and the 2nd to facilitate his return.

Here's where we would be in some agreement. If El Salvador asks the US to extradite someone who fled to the US, then, yes, the court cant keep him here. The argument would then become should we extradite an ES National, who has no criminal record in either country for a life sentence with no due process in that country? That's a moral/humanitarian debate, not a legal one. If the ES asks to extradite, the US State Dept can do so.
You aren't paying attention.

From AP:

"A federal judge on Wednesday said he’ll order the Trump administration to provide more information about the terms under which dozens of Venezuelan immigrants are being held at a notorious prison in El Salvador, moving a step closer to deciding whether to require the men to be returned to the United States.

District Court Judge James E. Boasberg said he needed the information to determine whether the roughly 200 men, deported in March under an 18th century wartime law, were still effectively in U.S. custody. Boasberg noted that President Donald Trump had boasted in an interview that he could get back one man wrongly imprisoned in El Salvador in a separate case by simply asking. The government’s lawyer, Abishek Kambli, said that and other public statements by administration officials about their relationship with El Salvador lacked “nuance.”

Kambli would not give Boasberg any information about the administration’s deal with El Salvador’s President, Nayib Bukele, who once called himself “the world’s coolest dictator” and is holding immigrants deported from the U.S. at his country’s CECOT prison. He would not even confirm the terms of the deal, which the White House has said are a $20 million payment to El Salvador."

From the Independent:

"Following the Supreme Court’s order, Judge Xinis ordered daily updates on Abrego Garcia’s condition and the steps the government is taking to “facilitate” his release.

But administration officials have publicly claimed that the Supreme Court’s ruling said no such thing, and government lawyers in court documents have raised a series of arguments to avoid answering, including attorney-client privilege and “state secrets” privilege

“The State Department has engaged in appropriate diplomatic discussions with El Salvador regarding Abrego Garcia,” Justice Department lawyers wrote earlier this month. “However, disclosing the details of any diplomatic discussions regarding Mr. Abrego Garcia at this time could negatively impact any outcome.”

Judge Xinis said she “requires specific legal and factual showings to support any claim of privilege.”"
 
You aren't paying attention.

From AP:

"A federal judge on Wednesday said he’ll order the Trump administration to provide more information about the terms under which dozens of Venezuelan immigrants are being held at a notorious prison in El Salvador, moving a step closer to deciding whether to require the men to be returned to the United States.

District Court Judge James E. Boasberg said he needed the information to determine whether the roughly 200 men, deported in March under an 18th century wartime law, were still effectively in U.S. custody. Boasberg noted that President Donald Trump had boasted in an interview that he could get back one man wrongly imprisoned in El Salvador in a separate case by simply asking. The government’s lawyer, Abishek Kambli, said that and other public statements by administration officials about their relationship with El Salvador lacked “nuance.”

Kambli would not give Boasberg any information about the administration’s deal with El Salvador’s President, Nayib Bukele, who once called himself “the world’s coolest dictator” and is holding immigrants deported from the U.S. at his country’s CECOT prison. He would not even confirm the terms of the deal, which the White House has said are a $20 million payment to El Salvador."

From the Independent:

"Following the Supreme Court’s order, Judge Xinis ordered daily updates on Abrego Garcia’s condition and the steps the government is taking to “facilitate” his release.

But administration officials have publicly claimed that the Supreme Court’s ruling said no such thing, and government lawyers in court documents have raised a series of arguments to avoid answering, including attorney-client privilege and “state secrets” privilege

“The State Department has engaged in appropriate diplomatic discussions with El Salvador regarding Abrego Garcia,” Justice Department lawyers wrote earlier this month. “However, disclosing the details of any diplomatic discussions regarding Mr. Abrego Garcia at this time could negatively impact any outcome.”

Judge Xinis said she “requires specific legal and factual showings to support any claim of privilege.”"

As far as the Venezuelans go, I'm not talking about that. They were (hilariously) considered to be at war with the US. I don't care all that much about that situation. The US said we are at war with Venezuela (I didn't know we were) and these guys are enemy combatants waging war in our homeland (again, had no idea), the executive branch can make that determination.

I'm talking about Garcia. He had a court order that he couldn't be deported to El Salvador. And El Salvador didn't ask for extradition. This isn't the judiciary overstepping the executive branch. This is 100% a judiciary branch issue. He went to court during Trump 45 and the judge ruled that he couldn't be deported to El Salvador. That's needed to be honored or challenged in court. I dont see how you can have an opinion other than that.
 
As far as the Venezuelans go, I'm not talking about that. They were (hilariously) considered to be at war with the US. I don't care all that much about that situation. The US said we are at war with Venezuela (I didn't know we were) and these guys are enemy combatants waging war in our homeland (again, had no idea), the executive branch can make that determination.

I'm talking about Garcia. He had a court order that he couldn't be deported to El Salvador. And El Salvador didn't ask for extradition. This isn't the judiciary overstepping the executive branch. This is 100% a judiciary branch issue. He went to court during Trump 45 and the judge ruled that he couldn't be deported to El Salvador. That's needed to be honored or challenged in court. I dont see how you can have an opinion other than that.
Nothing I posted had anything to do with Venezuelans. It was all about Garcia and El Salvador.
 
Nothing I posted had anything to do with Venezuelans. It was all about Garcia and El Salvador.
“A federal judge on Wednesday said he’ll order the Trump administration to provide more information about the terms under which dozens of Venezuelan immigrants are being held at a notorious prison in El Salvador”
 
Nothing I posted had anything to do with Venezuelans. It was all about Garcia and El Salvador.

Read your first paragraph. But I dont care much about the Venezuelans. The US decided they are waging war against us, whatever. They said these aren't just gang members committing the usual gangy type crimes. This is an enemy force sent by the Venezuelan government. OK, fine. It isn't but you determined it was so whatever.

The Garcia issue is a million percent not a foreign diplomatic issue. Well, I guess you could say it became one but ONLY AFTER THEY DEFIED A COURT ORDER AND OVERSTEPPED THE JUDICIARY.

The creep towards authoritarianism starts with the weakening of the courts and silencing of journalists. We probably won't get all the way there but not for lack of effort.

The guy should be brought back and provided due process.
 
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should be paid for by michael byrd and if he cant pay it, you take everything he owns, his family owns, his kids owns, his parents own. Take it all from that F*ck of a disgrace, everything he owns and then take his ass to jail and throw away the key.


makes me sick to my stomach that this animal is not behind bars. i want that MFer in hell for what he did.


a man in a suit and tie is saying i want him dead
Makes me sick that a convict is running this country but stacked the deck so he wouldn't be prosecuted. But continue to believe his media freakin BS!!!!
 
“A federal judge on Wednesday said he’ll order the Trump administration to provide more information about the terms under which dozens of Venezuelan immigrants are being held at a notorious prison in El Salvador”
They were sent with Garcia. Its the same issue.
 
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They were sent with Garcia. Its the same issue.
They don't understand how courts work. Unless those "dozens of Venezuelans" filed papers and are parties to the case, the lower court judge's ruling has no authority.

A judge can't butt in to a matter and order the POTUS to do something. He can only respond to a case files by a plaintiff. So unless they filed lawsuits from jail, the judge is just wasting time.
 
They don't understand how courts work. Unless those "dozens of Venezuelans" filed papers and are parties to the case, the lower court judge's ruling has no authority.

A judge can't butt in to a matter and order the POTUS to do something. He can only respond to a case files by a plaintiff. So unless they filed lawsuits from jail, the judge is just wasting time.
This is the dumbest, most incorrect post you’ve made yet. Congrats!!

Imagine a world where you and your family couldn’t do anything about a false imprisonment because your captor prevents you from contacting an attorney…
 
They were Venezuelan and they are two separate issues.
Nope, the issue the judge is driving is to determine how much control the US has over the inmates in El Salvador - including both the Venezuelans and Garcia.

The whole argument about Venezuelans is irrelevant to the point, anyhow. SMF challenged how the court was getting involved in diplomatic discussions.
 
Nope, the issue the judge is driving is to determine how much control the US has over the inmates in El Salvador - including both the Venezuelans and Garcia.

The whole argument about Venezuelans is irrelevant to the point, anyhow. SMF challenged how the court was getting involved in diplomatic discussions.
There are two separate cases. Two judges. The relevance is your complete lack of understanding of either.
 
Nope, the issue the judge is driving is to determine how much control the US has over the inmates in El Salvador - including both the Venezuelans and Garcia.

The whole argument about Venezuelans is irrelevant to the point, anyhow. SMF challenged how the court was getting involved in diplomatic discussions.

NC, come on man. Just admit you are wrong here. We may disagree on most things but I'll admit you at least understand what's going on. In this case, you dont.

The Venezuelans were deported under the Alien Enemies Act. I dont want to spend any more time on that but the genesis of that is the US is in a literal war with Venezuela. No due process is required in these cases. The only thing that can be ruled upon is if this Act applies here since we really aren't fighting a war vs the government of Venezuela. However, it was upheld in the courts and we have to honor that. Since it was upheld, no due process for those guys and bye bye.

Garcia is completely different. He was deported like any other "normal" illegal immigrant. The reason his case made national news is that he had a court order forbidding his deportation to El Salvador. That was the "administrative error." It wasnt that they deported the wrong guy or that he shouldn't have been deported. They got the right guy but they didn't see that he had an order that forbade El Salvador. They needed to take steps to deport him somewhere else or challenge that ES prohibition in court somehow.

Now, if El Salvador asked for his extradition based on crimes he committed in ES, I would think that would supersede the paragraph above and we let the State Dept do their thing. But they didn't ask for extradition. They had no idea who he was. And although he has no criminal history, he was handed a life sentence based on his tattoos. And the guy may indeed be MS13 and a terrible criminal. Even if we say the tattoos prove MS13 gang membership, you still have the problem that even though he may have committed plenty of crimes, there is no proof. Now, in the authoritarian regime of ES, tattoos are proof enough for a life sentence. We can agree or disagree on that but that's their country. They can do whatever they want. But we sent a guy to a country he wasn't allowed to go to and if that isn't bad enough, he was given a life sentence with no trial with no criminal history in either country.
 
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NC, come on man. Just admit you are wrong here. We may disagree on most things but I'll admit you at least understand what's going on. In this case, you dont.

The Venezuelans were deported under the Alien Enemies Act. I dont want to spend any more time on that but the genesis of that is the US is in a literal war with Venezuela. No due process is required in these cases. The only thing that can be ruled upon is if this Act applies here since we really aren't fighting a war vs the government of Venezuela. However, it was upheld in the courts and we have to honor that. Since it was upheld, no due process for those guys and bye bye.

Garcia is completely different. He was deported like any other "normal" illegal immigrant. The reason his case made national news is that he had a court order forbidding his deportation to El Salvador. That was the "administrative error." It wasnt that they deported the wrong guy or that he shouldn't have been deported. They got the right guy but they didn't see that he had an order that forbade El Salvador. They needed to take steps to deport him somewhere else or challenge that ES prohibition in court somehow.

Now, if El Salvador asked for his extradition based on crimes he committed in ES, I would think that would supersede the paragraph above and we let the State Dept do their thing. But they didn't ask for extradition. They had no idea who he was. And although he has no criminal history, he was handed a life sentence based on his tattoos. And the guy may indeed be MS13 and a terrible criminal. Even if we say the tattoos prove MS13 gang membership, you still have the problem that even though he may have committed plenty of crimes, there is no proof. Now, in the authoritarian regime of ES, tattoos are proof enough for a life sentence. We can agree or disagree on that but that's their country. They can do whatever they want. But we sent a guy to a country he wasn't allowed to go to and if that isn't bad enough, he was given a life sentence with no trial with no criminal history in either country.
Do you even understand what the issue is anymore, or are you burying yourself in irrelevancies because I proved you wrong?
 
Do you even understand what the issue is anymore, or are you burying yourself in irrelevancies because I proved you wrong?

You are impossible.

Can I even get you to admit that Garcia wasnt deported under the Alien Enemies Act? I mean that there is an absolute fact. But maybe we can start there at least?
 
You are impossible.

Can I even get you to admit that Garcia wasnt deported under the Alien Enemies Act? I mean that there is an absolute fact. But maybe we can start there at least?
That isn't even close to the question under discussion. I guess the answer to my question is that you want to bury yourself in irrelevancies.
 
That isn't even close to the question under discussion. I guess the answer to my question is that you want to bury yourself in irrelevancies.
It sounds like you are struggling to communicate your point. Maybe try restating it in a different way?
 
That isn't even close to the question under discussion. I guess the answer to my question is that you want to bury yourself in irrelevancies.

You are the one who brought up the Venezuelans.

Let's start this again because I honestly have no idea what you are trying to articulate.

Let me ask you 2 questions and the answers should be very simple and then we can go from there.

1. Was Garcia deported under the Alien Enemies Act?

2. Did Garcia have a court order prohibiting deportation to El Salvador?

If we can get these 2 things established, we can move on but we have to at least agree on things that are actual facts.
 
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You are the one who brought up the Venezuelans.

Let's start this again because I honestly have no idea what you are trying to articulate.

Let me ask you 2 questions and the answers should be very simple and then we can go from there.

1. Was Garcia deported under the Alien Enemies Act?

2. Did Garcia have a court order prohibiting deportation to El Salvador?

If we can get these 2 things established, we can move on but we have to at least agree on things that are actual facts.
Again, those are not relevant to the discussion. Read thread and maybe you'll understand the issue, but I doubt it.
 
Again, those are not relevant to the discussion. Read thread and maybe you'll understand the issue, but I doubt it.

Do you have to be like this? I am trying to have an honest debate here. I truly don't understand what relevance the articles you copied and pasted had. My best guess is that you feel that once Garcia lands in El Salvador, the US judicial system has no jurisdiction over the executive branch. And maybe that would be true except that he was deported to that country in error. That's sort of the whole point.
 
Do you have to be like this? I am trying to have an honest debate here. I truly don't understand what relevance the articles you copied and pasted had. My best guess is that you feel that once Garcia lands in El Salvador, the US judicial system has no jurisdiction over the executive branch. And maybe that would be true except that he was deported to that country in error. That's sort of the whole point.
Yes, he has to be this way. He's a pompous ass and a self proclaimed know it all who has to win the internet on every thread.
 
Do you have to be like this? I am trying to have an honest debate here. I truly don't understand what relevance the articles you copied and pasted had. My best guess is that you feel that once Garcia lands in El Salvador, the US judicial system has no jurisdiction over the executive branch. And maybe that would be true except that he was deported to that country in error. That's sort of the whole point.
You claimed the courts didn't overstep their roles. The articles I posted showed they did. That's my point.
 
You claimed the courts didn't overstep their roles. The articles I posted showed they did. That's my point.

On the Venezuelans. I dont care about them. We elected an admin who said they are an enemy army. They won the right to make that call at the ballot box. If your point is that that judge is overstepping, I'll throw you a bone and concede that.

Now, will you answer this simple yes/no question? Did Garcia have a court order prohibiting his deportation to El Salvador?
 
On the Venezuelans. I dont care about them. We elected an admin who said they are an enemy army. They won the right to make that call at the ballot box. If your point is that that judge is overstepping, I'll throw you a bone and concede that.

Now, will you answer this simple yes/no question? Did Garcia have a court order prohibiting his deportation to El Salvador?
It doesn't matter which case they overstep their role. The world is bigger than the Garcia case.

I've discussed Garcia already. I'm not doing that again. He isn't relevant to my points here.
 
It doesn't matter which case they overstep their role. The world is bigger than the Garcia case.

I've discussed Garcia already. I'm not doing that again. He isn't relevant to my points here.

Then we'll end it with this:

1. Venezuelans: Judiciary is overstepping and I understand Rubio's point

2. Garcia: not overstepping. We messed up and we have to fix it. The courts are right.
 
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The problem is that you are conflating two separate issues while trying to make a point that is relevant to one and not the other.
I never conflated them. You guys tried to do that. I mistakenly played along for awhile.
 
You did at 11:11 yesterday. No one was talking about Venezuelans until your post.
I wasn't talking about Venezuelans either. I was talking about the judge's orders re Venezuelans.

Maybe you need remedial reading.
 
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