If your kid has a vaccination.....
- Thread starter COengr
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Who's the neurotic paranoid, Mr. "Zu muss be vaccinated!"? (cue Nazi accent)
I'll disclose when you disclose.
I don't hurt anyone by being sick. The microbe is the cause. People don't infect people. Germs infect people. Don't blame me because you eat too many twinkies and have a compromised immune system.
I agree. A sequestered community largely free from autism, cancer, MS and a host of other diseases related to vaccinations. Let's start a new country. While we're eliminating vaccine caused diseases, we can eliminate other socialist diseases too, like welfare, foreign aid, etc, etc.
I'll disclose when you disclose.
I don't hurt anyone by being sick. The microbe is the cause. People don't infect people. Germs infect people. Don't blame me because you eat too many twinkies and have a compromised immune system.
I agree. A sequestered community largely free from autism, cancer, MS and a host of other diseases related to vaccinations. Let's start a new country. While we're eliminating vaccine caused diseases, we can eliminate other socialist diseases too, like welfare, foreign aid, etc, etc.
Blaming the microbe for measles is like blaming the booze in your blood for being drunk. Regardless, skipping vaccinations for your children is wreckless behavior and should be a crime more so than something like narcotics possession.
Attributing autism or cancer or MS to vaccination is plain dumb, and much like other dumb things you believe there is no credible science behind it.
Attributing autism or cancer or MS to vaccination is plain dumb, and much like other dumb things you believe there is no credible science behind it.
Okay. By your logic that anyone who gets drunk willfully exposed themselves to alcohol, so anyone who gets sick willfully exposed themselves to infection. Works for me. Don't blame someone for infecting your kid when you willfully exposed your kid to them.
Define "credible science".
Define "credible science".
You don't seem to understand how vaccinations work (or logic, but that's for another day). They are not 100% effective, and are not given at birth (I.e, there is a window where you cannot be immune). If you CHOOSE to not vaccinate, you are putting everyone at risk around you by increasing the probability that they become infected. They should be penalized for the same reason drunks who choose to get behind a wheel are penalized when they have done no harm.
Show one study attributing any of those things to a vaccination.
Show one study attributing any of those things to a vaccination.
Originally posted by BPKY:
Okay. By your logic that anyone who gets drunk willfully exposed themselves to alcohol, so anyone who gets sick willfully exposed themselves to infection. Works for me. Don't blame someone for infecting your kid when you willfully exposed your kid to them.
Define "credible science".
What about the polio vaccine developed at Pitt by Dr. Jonas Salk and team. Should that not have been a government-mandated vaccine? Are the doctors volunteering to try to curtail Ebola doing wrong by the people of west Africa? This anti-vaccination way of thinking just boggles the mind....should public health in general just go away? Should we stop paying attention to scientific discovery and data showing efficacy against some of the worst diseases around? Mind boggling. And thank goodness for Dr. Salk and so many like him...the heroes of society.
Not really. Many if not most government regulations were adopted from "consensus" standards, developed by industry and/or insurance groups, such as the National Electric Code, The American National Standards Institute, Underwriters Lab, and those are just a few examples. Often regulations arise from work groups with representatives from government, academia and the affected industries. There is always a series of comment periods, and also opportunities for affected parties to supply input into the process.
If the regulation is deemed unfair the affected party can seek relief through the court system where all evidence is heard and weighed. Sometimes the regulation is upheld, or overturned, or required to be adjusted.
Finally, the Congress can with hold funding for the enforcement of the regulation if that is the will of the people.
How does it work in your world?
If the regulation is deemed unfair the affected party can seek relief through the court system where all evidence is heard and weighed. Sometimes the regulation is upheld, or overturned, or required to be adjusted.
Finally, the Congress can with hold funding for the enforcement of the regulation if that is the will of the people.
How does it work in your world?
Thank you. You made my point with your comment about industry and/or insurance groups influence.
Congress has no desire to stop enforcement of regulations because they are 1) dependent on the money from the protected groups and 2) power-seekers who want bigger government. Just look at the immigration mess. The GOP talks big about defunding Obama's amnesty yet they will never get it through...because industry wants it and government grows in power.
That's how it works in my world.
Think I'd snap someone's neck if Mr and Mrs. Jesus Freak had an unvaccinated kid in my daughter's school and infected my daughter with whatever virus was knocked out by civilization 80 years ago.. Criminal negligence in it's purest form.. There has to have been some cases involving this in the past? Saw it on a Law and Order..
@pghfan you know when fruity wingbat liberals and nutjob conservative libertarians agree...
Nothing good for civilization can happen.
It's my fault for being bored enough check in on this forum.
Nothing good for civilization can happen.
It's my fault for being bored enough check in on this forum.
What makes you think it is Christians who don't immunize? This started in California. Pghfan, you think this state a bastion of Jezeez freaks? What kind of freak is one who continuously shows his ignorance, Or in other words, what kind of freakiness do you subscribe to?
LOL.
A National Center for Biotechnology Information study in 2004 reported:
Unvaccinated children tended to be white, to have a mother who was married and had a college degree, to live in a household with an annual income exceeding 75,000 dollars, and to have parents who expressed concerns regarding the safety of vaccines and indicated that medical doctors have little influence over vaccination decisions for their children. Unvaccinated children were more likely to be male than female. Annually, approximately 17,000 children were unvaccinated. The largest numbers of unvaccinated children lived in counties in California, Illinois, New York, Washington, Pennsylvania, Texas, Oklahoma, Colorado, Utah, and Michigan. States that allowed philosophical exemptions to laws mandating vaccinations for children as they entered school had significantly higher estimated rates of unvaccinated children.
A recent YouGov poll Found:
YouGov's latest research shows that most Americans (57%) support requiring all children to get vaccinated against childhood diseases, but 32% do think that it should be up to parents to decide whether or not their child should be vaccinated. Americans under the age of 30 (43%) are far more likely than other age groups to say that the decision should be left to parents. Only 26% of 45-64 year olds and 21% of over-65s think that vaccination should be at parental discretion.
I guess in your world those rich, educated mothers and the remaining 32% of the population are all in the whacky right and whacky left. Too funny.
Did you see the episode where they guy snapped the neck of illegal immigrant who brought in diseases that were knocked out of this nation 80 years ago? Or the episode where the parent of the kid who was vaccine damaged snapped the doctor's and the pharmacist's neck? The world needs more neck snapping.
This post was edited on 2/9 5:23 AM by BPKY
This post was edited on 2/9 5:23 AM by BPKY
Here's a link to 30 studies someone compiled by someone which attributed "those things" to a vaccination. Or maybe these are fake like the quote you cited by that idiot supreme court justice in connection with the 14th amendment? I've no confidence that your level of diligence in medical research is less lax than your research into legal issues.
Evidence that vaccines can cause autism
It is an often repeated fallacy that there is no research that supports the supposition that vaccines can cause autism. This talking point is most often repeated by medical personnel and public health officials who have simply never been told that these studies exist, and in some cases by those who refuse to read the information when it is offered to them, so they continue to labor under the false assumption that vaccine autism causation is merely an "internet rumor" or a result of one paper that was published in 1998.This untruth was again testified to during the HHS Committee hearings
In fact, the first research paper to offer evidence that vaccines may cause autism was THE first paper ever written on autism. In the 1930's, Child Psychiatrist Leo Kanner discovered 11 children over the course of several years who displayed a novel set of neurological symptoms that had never been described in the medical literature, where children were withdrawn, uncommunicative and displayed similar odd behaviors. This disorder would become known as "autism." In the paper, Dr. Kanner noted that onset of the disorder began following the administration of a small pox vaccine. This paper, was published in 1943, and evidence that vaccination causes an ever increasing rate of neurological and immunological regressions, including autism, has been mounting from that time until now.Autistic Disturbances of Affective Contact
Leo Kanner, Johns Hopkins University, 1943
"Since 1938, there have come to our attention a number of children whose condition differs so markedly and uniquely from anything reported so far, that each case merits - and, I hope, will eventually receive - at detailed consideration of its fascinating peculiarities."
All of Kanners cases were born after, and began to appear following, the introduction of Eli Lilly's new form of water soluble mercury in the late 1920s used as an anti-fungal in forestry, a wood treatment product in the lumber industry and as a disinfectant and anti-bacterial in the medical industry under the name of "Thimerosal" that was included in vaccines.
For further information on the early evidence of a vaccine/connection, I recommend reading Dr. Bryan Jepson's book, "Changing the Course of Autism: A Scientific Approach for Parents and Physicians," as well as Mark Blaxill and Dan Olmseted's new book "The Age of Autism: Mercury, Medicine, and a Man-made Epidemic."
As I testified to at the hearing, there is abundant research supporting the vaccine autism link. I have included 49 research papers for your review, and only included research published in the last ten years or so. This is by no means a complete list, but it one that I have been compiling for the last few years as relevant research came to my attention. I have ONLY included autism related information, not research on other vaccine injuries of which there are many.
As you can see, the medical professionals testifying that there is no scientific support for the vaccine/autism causation theory are uninformed about the current state of the science. When vaccination decisions are made based on an uninformed opinion, it means serious potential damage to the patient, and because of the law preventing lawsuits for vaccine injury, it also means that the uninformed medical professionals making bad recommendations CANNOT be held accountable in any way for giving the patient bad information.
Parents want to know if their child can develop autism from their vaccines. If they believe that the answer is yes, and the risk of brain injury from vaccination is higher than their risk from a disease, it is their right to decline vaccination for themselves and their children with out coercion.
Patients MUST be able to make their own informed vaccine decisions, because often, they know more about potential vaccine risks that even top public health officials do.
- See more at: http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/30-scientific-studies-showing-the-link-between-vaccines-and-autism/#sthash.XYA4b3Mk.dpuf
30 Studies Showing Vaccine-Autism Link
Evidence that vaccines can cause autism
It is an often repeated fallacy that there is no research that supports the supposition that vaccines can cause autism. This talking point is most often repeated by medical personnel and public health officials who have simply never been told that these studies exist, and in some cases by those who refuse to read the information when it is offered to them, so they continue to labor under the false assumption that vaccine autism causation is merely an "internet rumor" or a result of one paper that was published in 1998.This untruth was again testified to during the HHS Committee hearings
In fact, the first research paper to offer evidence that vaccines may cause autism was THE first paper ever written on autism. In the 1930's, Child Psychiatrist Leo Kanner discovered 11 children over the course of several years who displayed a novel set of neurological symptoms that had never been described in the medical literature, where children were withdrawn, uncommunicative and displayed similar odd behaviors. This disorder would become known as "autism." In the paper, Dr. Kanner noted that onset of the disorder began following the administration of a small pox vaccine. This paper, was published in 1943, and evidence that vaccination causes an ever increasing rate of neurological and immunological regressions, including autism, has been mounting from that time until now.Autistic Disturbances of Affective Contact
Leo Kanner, Johns Hopkins University, 1943
"Since 1938, there have come to our attention a number of children whose condition differs so markedly and uniquely from anything reported so far, that each case merits - and, I hope, will eventually receive - at detailed consideration of its fascinating peculiarities."
All of Kanners cases were born after, and began to appear following, the introduction of Eli Lilly's new form of water soluble mercury in the late 1920s used as an anti-fungal in forestry, a wood treatment product in the lumber industry and as a disinfectant and anti-bacterial in the medical industry under the name of "Thimerosal" that was included in vaccines.
For further information on the early evidence of a vaccine/connection, I recommend reading Dr. Bryan Jepson's book, "Changing the Course of Autism: A Scientific Approach for Parents and Physicians," as well as Mark Blaxill and Dan Olmseted's new book "The Age of Autism: Mercury, Medicine, and a Man-made Epidemic."
As I testified to at the hearing, there is abundant research supporting the vaccine autism link. I have included 49 research papers for your review, and only included research published in the last ten years or so. This is by no means a complete list, but it one that I have been compiling for the last few years as relevant research came to my attention. I have ONLY included autism related information, not research on other vaccine injuries of which there are many.
As you can see, the medical professionals testifying that there is no scientific support for the vaccine/autism causation theory are uninformed about the current state of the science. When vaccination decisions are made based on an uninformed opinion, it means serious potential damage to the patient, and because of the law preventing lawsuits for vaccine injury, it also means that the uninformed medical professionals making bad recommendations CANNOT be held accountable in any way for giving the patient bad information.
Parents want to know if their child can develop autism from their vaccines. If they believe that the answer is yes, and the risk of brain injury from vaccination is higher than their risk from a disease, it is their right to decline vaccination for themselves and their children with out coercion.
Patients MUST be able to make their own informed vaccine decisions, because often, they know more about potential vaccine risks that even top public health officials do.
- See more at: http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/30-scientific-studies-showing-the-link-between-vaccines-and-autism/#sthash.XYA4b3Mk.dpuf
30 Studies Showing Vaccine-Autism Link
If you go to 5:50 of the linked video it shows congressional testimony where the FDA representative admits that nobody is certain that thimerosal (mercury) in vaccines does not cause autism. She then admits that they could manufacture vaccines without thimerosal, but they don't because that would cost money to retrofit the line. She also admits that single shot vials, which are thimerosal free, could be used BUT THEY STILL PUSH MULTI-DOSE VACCINES anyhow because it's more profitable. (Also, a vaccine may state "no thimerosal added" but still contain residual thimerosal from the manufacturing process.)
Her argument boils down to "Vaccines are so important for societal disease prevention that we will take the risk of vaccine damage because our epidemeological studies have not conclusively shown a link between vaccines and neurological damage".
So, they can't deny that there may be a risk of damage from vaccines. If you believe in government mandates, if a child becomes autistic after being vaccinated, then the government should pay for lifelong treatment and care, right? Since you want people to take the risk because you don't want your kid to get the measles, shouldn't you subsidize the effects of your mandate?
BTW, just because a Pitt researcher developed something doesn't make it infallible. His polio vaccine contained SV40 which is linked to cancers that developed later in life. Also, many people in Africa hide their children when vaccines are brought in because they know they believe they are getting shot with the experimental varieties without being told.
Vaccine expert admits ignorance
Her argument boils down to "Vaccines are so important for societal disease prevention that we will take the risk of vaccine damage because our epidemeological studies have not conclusively shown a link between vaccines and neurological damage".
So, they can't deny that there may be a risk of damage from vaccines. If you believe in government mandates, if a child becomes autistic after being vaccinated, then the government should pay for lifelong treatment and care, right? Since you want people to take the risk because you don't want your kid to get the measles, shouldn't you subsidize the effects of your mandate?
BTW, just because a Pitt researcher developed something doesn't make it infallible. His polio vaccine contained SV40 which is linked to cancers that developed later in life. Also, many people in Africa hide their children when vaccines are brought in because they know they believe they are getting shot with the experimental varieties without being told.
Vaccine expert admits ignorance
We'll need the illegals to work since our society is all autistic.
@ncpitt, yes I do . The more polarized society is, the dumber it gets.
Common sense waived bye bye a while ago.
@ncpitt, yes I do . The more polarized society is, the dumber it gets.
Common sense waived bye bye a while ago.
Society is getting dumber, I agree.
But polarization has nothing to do with it unless you want to consider the real cause. The nanny state and government education does - and they are products of the left.
If you're trying to say that anti-vaxxers are dumb, I couldn't disagree more.
I am saying precisely that.
They are dumb on health topics.
More dangerous they don't recogni they are dumb, they think they are informed.
It's ego, not knowledge.
And they are passing that stupidity to their kids.
Hence they reoccurrence of disease...
And shockingly enough...no decrease in their boogeyman autism incidences.
Ignorance is ignorance.
They are dumb on health topics.
More dangerous they don't recogni they are dumb, they think they are informed.
It's ego, not knowledge.
And they are passing that stupidity to their kids.
Hence they reoccurrence of disease...
And shockingly enough...no decrease in their boogeyman autism incidences.
Ignorance is ignorance.
I used to reply to your inanities because some rare reader may have bought into them. But I now believe that everyone here recognizes that you bring nothing to any discussion. Therefore, I no longer believe that a reply pointing out the nonsense is necessary. I'm only writing this reply to let you know that my lack of future replies is not conceding to your nonsense, but acknowledging that your posts are nonsense to everyone.
Only ILLEGAL immigrants pose a risk of bringing in diseases?
What about the millions of foreign nationals who LEGALLY visit the United States every year as tourists, or on business, or visiting family?
I believe the current measles outbreak was linked to foreign nationals legally visiting Disneyland. What's next, shutting down the tourism industry? Ebola part deux?
Nice try, but big swing and miss!
What about the millions of foreign nationals who LEGALLY visit the United States every year as tourists, or on business, or visiting family?
I believe the current measles outbreak was linked to foreign nationals legally visiting Disneyland. What's next, shutting down the tourism industry? Ebola part deux?
Nice try, but big swing and miss!
Good point. Add foreign tourists to the list of people whose necks Pghfan wants to snap. Let's also not leave out vaccinated people who carry the disease.
Glad to see you're willing to risk exposure in order to advance the tourist trade. Since you are, a few tree hugging liberals who don't want to shoot their kids up with thimerosal, latex, formaldehyde, and benzyl alcohol shouldn't bother you either.
Eye on the flu shot
Glad to see you're willing to risk exposure in order to advance the tourist trade. Since you are, a few tree hugging liberals who don't want to shoot their kids up with thimerosal, latex, formaldehyde, and benzyl alcohol shouldn't bother you either.
Eye on the flu shot
The claim has been made by a doctor in Lancaster that he's only seen 3 cases of Autism in the Amish, and two of those were vaccinated; but, not surprisingly, this has been disputed. Seems there are some but at much lower rates. The Amish vaccinate, but at lower rates. Here are some links, but you can google yourself:
http://healthwyze.org/index.php/component/content/article/295-the-amish-dont-get-autism-but-they-do-get-bio-terrorism.html
https://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2010/webprogram/Paper7336.html
https://pittsburgh.rivals.com/compose.asp?sid=996&fid=1922&style=2&rid=210247671&tid=210092598
http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2011/06/28/anecdotal-amish-dont-vaccinate-claims-disproved-by-fact-based-study/
There was an LDS sect church community in Texas years ago that had 438 kids, none of whom were vaccinated. The government raided the church and the first thing they did was shoot up the kids once they took them from their parents. All based on a fake call to a domestic abuse hotline. Some leaders were convicted of sex with minors. Anyhow, it would have been interesting to have tracked those 438 kids, were they never injected.
What you ask should be simple enough, right? That's my problem with the vaccine cult. There are plenty of people who would gladly volunteer for a study that tracks their unvaccinated kids versus vaccinated kids. Just do a freaking study and be done with the debate. But you can bet nobody who peddles vaccines will pay for that study.
Here's a good video on the MMR vaccine controversy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra0QtTUuFIc
http://healthwyze.org/index.php/component/content/article/295-the-amish-dont-get-autism-but-they-do-get-bio-terrorism.html
https://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2010/webprogram/Paper7336.html
https://pittsburgh.rivals.com/compose.asp?sid=996&fid=1922&style=2&rid=210247671&tid=210092598
http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2011/06/28/anecdotal-amish-dont-vaccinate-claims-disproved-by-fact-based-study/
There was an LDS sect church community in Texas years ago that had 438 kids, none of whom were vaccinated. The government raided the church and the first thing they did was shoot up the kids once they took them from their parents. All based on a fake call to a domestic abuse hotline. Some leaders were convicted of sex with minors. Anyhow, it would have been interesting to have tracked those 438 kids, were they never injected.
What you ask should be simple enough, right? That's my problem with the vaccine cult. There are plenty of people who would gladly volunteer for a study that tracks their unvaccinated kids versus vaccinated kids. Just do a freaking study and be done with the debate. But you can bet nobody who peddles vaccines will pay for that study.
Here's a good video on the MMR vaccine controversy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra0QtTUuFIc
As an aside, the reason for the herd immunity my anecdote this week.
My little boy has all his vaccines.
He's in daycare and caught a cold, which lingered for about a week, but seemed on the mend.
Saturday night he's not acting quite right,but he played hard outside for a few hours and we assumed he was just exhausted.
He wakes up crying which is unusual for him, I check on him and he feels pretty warm.
We decide to wait and see if he stays down. About an hour later crying again and now feels like he's burning up. Spiked a 103.3 degree fever (not dangerous just the highest he's had in his nearly three years of life).
Ibuprofen and call the nurse line, listens to his breathing which is fast, recommend a trip to the er (thankfully our first with him)/
While waiting his fever comes down and he seems like himself again... But we're here so may as well check on him...since our knowledge is enough that you don't spike >103 fevers from viruses.
Chest x-ray shows a bit of pneumonia, which he's vaccinated against but being worn out from his cold increased his risk since it's 90% effective or maybe a different serotype.
Or maybe dad brought it home, since I'm not in the risk category to regularly get it.
He's well on the bend on antibiotics, fortunately we don't have to hesitate and can easily afford the er copays, which probably kept him from being admitted a day or two later.
My little boy has all his vaccines.
He's in daycare and caught a cold, which lingered for about a week, but seemed on the mend.
Saturday night he's not acting quite right,but he played hard outside for a few hours and we assumed he was just exhausted.
He wakes up crying which is unusual for him, I check on him and he feels pretty warm.
We decide to wait and see if he stays down. About an hour later crying again and now feels like he's burning up. Spiked a 103.3 degree fever (not dangerous just the highest he's had in his nearly three years of life).
Ibuprofen and call the nurse line, listens to his breathing which is fast, recommend a trip to the er (thankfully our first with him)/
While waiting his fever comes down and he seems like himself again... But we're here so may as well check on him...since our knowledge is enough that you don't spike >103 fevers from viruses.
Chest x-ray shows a bit of pneumonia, which he's vaccinated against but being worn out from his cold increased his risk since it's 90% effective or maybe a different serotype.
Or maybe dad brought it home, since I'm not in the risk category to regularly get it.
He's well on the bend on antibiotics, fortunately we don't have to hesitate and can easily afford the er copays, which probably kept him from being admitted a day or two later.
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