I'm not convinced that Pitt can't sell bowl tickets to a decent Florida game.

[HailtoPitt]

Pitt has only played in one Florida bowl game in something like 30-35+ years. That was the Tangerine Bowl (former Micron PC Bowl, now the Capital One Bowl) in 2001 when Pitt went 6-5 and played a 7-4 NC State team. Nobody really cared. We tend to get shipped off to locations like Detroit, Birmingham and Texas where not to many alums live or willing to travel to. Usually these bowl selections are slights and Pitt ends up playing a team that isn't very good, so the result is that attendance isn't great.

It sounds like tickets are selling pretty decently for the Military Bowl. Imaging that. A matchup against a good team, in an area where Pitt alums live or can easily travel to, and people buy tickets. I think if Pitt got a chance to play in the TaxSlayer (Gator) bowl or the Russell Athletic Bowl or the Pinstripe Bowl, then fan attendance would be surprisingly good. The ACC needs to make some modifications to the bowl lineup, so that teams get picked for bowl games based on where they finish and not based on attendendance potential. Like the Big 10 does. I'd like for them to also consider replacing the Independence Bowl with one of the other Florida, Bahamas, or Hawaii bowl games that are more of a rewards even when Pitt gets jobbed. The difference in payouts, when distributed across the entire conference, isn't worth a better location. The Independence Bowl payout is $1.2M, whereas the Miami Beach Bowl is $1M. Which one would fans and players rather go to?

 

[ThePanthers]

We didn't sell for Charlotte twice, and Phoenix 3 times before that.

You might be right, we might be able to, but the one time we got to Florida we didn't sell, same with the locations above.

Until we can show we will sell the tickets, the bowls aren't going to take a chance.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

If Pitt were 10-2 and in the Citrus Bowl, we'd sell 10,000 tickets. 9-3 VT or NCSU would sell a minimum of 20,000.

 

[PITTLAW]

Pitt has only played in one Florida bowl game in something like 30-35+ years. That was the Tangerine Bowl (former Micron PC Bowl, now the Capital One Bowl) in 2001 when Pitt went 6-5 and played a 7-4 NC State team. Nobody really cared. We tend to get shipped off to locations like Detroit, Birmingham and Texas where not to many alums live or willing to travel to. Usually these bowl selections are slights and Pitt ends up playing a team that isn't very good, so the result is that attendance isn't great.

It sounds like tickets are selling pretty decently for the Military Bowl. Imaging that. A matchup against a good team, in an area where Pitt alums live or can easily travel to, and people buy tickets. I think if Pitt got a chance to play in the TaxSlayer (Gator) bowl or the Russell Athletic Bowl or the Pinstripe Bowl, then fan attendance would be surprisingly good. The ACC needs to make some modifications to the bowl lineup, so that teams get picked for bowl games based on where they finish and not based on attendendance potential. Like the Big 10 does. I'd like for them to also consider replacing the Independence Bowl with one of the other Florida, Bahamas, or Hawaii bowl games that are more of a rewards even when Pitt gets jobbed. The difference in payouts, when distributed across the entire conference, isn't worth a better location. The Independence Bowl payout is $1.2M, whereas the Miami Beach Bowl is $1M. Which one would fans and players rather go to?

I've attended every bowl game Pitt has played in since 1980--which included the 1980 Gator Bowl, 1981 Sugar, 1982 Cotton and 1983 Fiesta...among many after that. Pitt simply does not have a large football ticket buying following. I'd be very surprised to learn that Pitt has ever sold more than about 5,000-6,000 tickets for a bowl game--including the four I mention above. So unless the current leadership of our athletic program is able to drastically change culture and fan base, I do not think you will see huge numbers of fans following the team to a bowl game, regardless of the location. So unfortunately, I find myself having to disagree with you based upon over 35+ years as a Pitt fan. Hail to Pitt!

 

[HailtoPitt]

We didn't sell for Charlotte twice, and Phoenix 3 times before that.

You might be right, we might be able to, but the one time we got to Florida we didn't sell, same with the locations above.

We didn't, but Pitt has shown to be a fickle and circumstantial fan base. If it's Pitt vs. Georgia in the Gator Bowl, then Pitt fans will buy tickets. If it's Pitt vs. Whoever in the Miami Beach Bowl, then Pitt fans will buy tickets. I'd like to see the Gator Bowl give Pitt a chance before they write us off. Of course, when they see highlights of Pitt playing in front of a bunch of yellow seats because the stadium is too big, it scares them and no amount of schmoozing by Barnes is going to change their minds.

 

[ClarkLotTgate]

Putting together travel packages that aren't WAY OVER-PRICED would help too.
$265 + ticket is laughable for annapolis, just think what they would do for Nashville...

Put together reasonable travel packages based on GROUP pricing, and people will go. Obviously an area that has alumni would help to (Orlando/Tampa; Atlanta, or Charlotte-who's population has changed a lot since the early wanny years)

If you can't work out a good travel deal, then look to places that Allegiant, Spirit, and Southwest fly to on the cheap (Ft. Myers for exambple which is near FAU)

 

[JoeScaz]

Maybe someone can answer this.. but being 46 (and only 7 when we won the NC)... How many Pitt fans made the trip to play Georgia in the National Title game? I know that it was decidedly UGA fans because of proximity.. but what did we have there? 10k, 12k? Always have been curious about that...

We didn't, but Pitt has shown to be a fickle and circumstantial fan base. If it's Pitt vs. Georgia in the Gator Bowl, then Pitt fans will buy tickets. If it's Pitt vs. Whoever in the Miami Beach Bowl, then Pitt fans will buy tickets. I'd like to see the Gator Bowl give Pitt a chance before they write us off. Of course, when they see highlights of Pitt playing in front of a bunch of yellow seats because the stadium is too big, it scares them and no amount of schmoozing by Barnes is going to change their minds.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Georgia game was estimated at 10k.
Selling this Navy allotment will help.
In the short term, the way the ancillary bowls are set up, Pitt will have to win that extra game to guard against being demoted.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Putting together travel packages that aren't WAY OVER-PRICED would help too.
$265 + ticket is laughable for annapolis, just think what they would do for Nashville...

Put together reasonable travel packages based on GROUP pricing, and people will go. Obviously an area that has alumni would help to (Orlando/Tampa; Atlanta, or Charlotte-who's population has changed a lot since the early wanny years)

If you can't work out a good travel deal, then look to places that Allegiant, Spirit, and Southwest fly to on the cheap (Ft. Myers for exambple which is near FAU)

The $265 includes an $80 lower level ticket but that bus fare is still incredibally overpriced for an 8 hour round trip daytrip.

 

[ThePanthers]

We didn't, but Pitt has shown to be a fickle and circumstantial fan base. If it's Pitt vs. Georgia in the Gator Bowl, then Pitt fans will buy tickets. If it's Pitt vs. Whoever in the Miami Beach Bowl, then Pitt fans will buy tickets. I'd like to see the Gator Bowl give Pitt a chance before they write us off. Of course, when they see highlights of Pitt playing in front of a bunch of yellow seats because the stadium is too big, it scares them and no amount of schmoozing by Barnes is going to change their minds.

The bowl reps won't gamble on the fickle fan base. We have to prove it first.

They have a proven fanbase in PSU, so they went with them. A lot of money at stake. Pitt fans have to show first.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

I remember reading somewhere that VaTech returned many tickets to an Orange bowl I believe a while back. Very few teams travel well when it is not drive-able and it is a non NYD bowl.

 

[KiwiJeff]

The $265 includes an $80 lower level ticket but that bus fare is still incredibally overpriced for an 8 hour round trip daytrip.

How much should it be? Not trying to start anything at all, I have just never priced such a thing in my life....

 

[CrazyPaco]

Putting together travel packages that aren't WAY OVER-PRICED would help too.
$265 + ticket is laughable for annapolis, just think what they would do for Nashville...

Put together reasonable travel packages based on GROUP pricing, and people will go. Obviously an area that has alumni would help to (Orlando/Tampa; Atlanta, or Charlotte-who's population has changed a lot since the early wanny years)

If you can't work out a good travel deal, then look to places that Allegiant, Spirit, and Southwest fly to on the cheap (Ft. Myers for exambple which is near FAU)

That package includes a $55 ticket which otherwise would have a $15 handling charge. If one were driving themselves from Pittsburgh they'd also be paying $25 parking, $60 gas, $13.25 turnpike toll, at least $10 equivalent to the included meal/snack, 8 hours of your own time driving back and forth at minimum wage = $58. Total= ~$236 You think $265 is way overpriced? That's remarkably cheap for a travel package. Travel packages are always "over priced." You are paying for the convenience of not putting together you own travel plans.

Seriously, take a look around the web and look at similar packages at other schools.

 

[PITTLAW]

We didn't, but Pitt has shown to be a fickle and circumstantial fan base. If it's Pitt vs. Georgia in the Gator Bowl, then Pitt fans will buy tickets. If it's Pitt vs. Whoever in the Miami Beach Bowl, then Pitt fans will buy tickets. I'd like to see the Gator Bowl give Pitt a chance before they write us off. Of course, when they see highlights of Pitt playing in front of a bunch of yellow seats because the stadium is too big, it scares them and no amount of schmoozing by Barnes is going to change their minds.

I can tell you that in 1980 versus George Rodgers and the Gamecocks...Pitt did not attract anywhere close to 10,000 fans...and that was for a team off the national championship 4 years, had been winning like crazy, and a Florida destination. By the way, Jacksonville, Florida is hardly an attractive place. The weather is rarely warm enough to go without a jacket/coat, there are few local decent hotels or restaurants, and there is very little to do. We had to stay in Daytona Beach as there were not sufficient local hotels. I know it is a little better today than in 1980...but based upon NFL fan comments...Jacksonville is hardly a great destination for spending a "vacation." Hail to Pitt!

 

[PITTLAW]

That package includes a $55 ticket which otherwise would have a $15 handling charge. If one were driving themselves from Pittsburgh they'd also be paying $25 parking, $60 gas, $13.25 turnpike toll, at least $10 equivalent to the included meal/snack, 8 hours of your own time driving back and forth at minimum wage = $58. Total= ~$236 You think $265 is way overpriced? That's remarkably cheap for a travel package.

Seriously, take a look around the web and look at other packages at schools.

The package you outline above seems within an acceptable range based upon my frequent travels--although admittedly, I do not do bus travel. What amazes me is that people are too lazy to schedule/arrange their own travel. With the Internet today, nearly any moron could do so in a couple of minutes. If the bus is too expensive, pack your Hyundai and off you go. There are a plethora of cheap-ass hotels surrounding Annapolis within an hour if you are not able to go down and back in the same day. Sometimes I have to remind myself that the vast majority of these people actually have a college degree--and from Pitt no less. Such as it is. Hail to Pitt!

 

[ThePanthers]

The package you outline above seems within an acceptable range based upon my frequent travels--although admittedly, I do not do bus travel. What amazes me is that people are too lazy to schedule/arrange their own travel. With the Internet today, nearly any moron could do so in a couple of minutes. If the bus is too expensive, pack your Hyundai and off you go. There are a plethora of cheap-ass hotels surrounding Annapolis within an hour if you are not able to go down and back in the same day. Sometimes I have to remind myself that the vast majority of these people actually have a college degree--and from Pitt no less. Such as it is. Hail to Pitt!

Some just don't get it and never will.

 

[jimmoyer]

That package includes a $55 ticket which otherwise would have a $15 handling charge. If one were driving themselves from Pittsburgh they'd also be paying $25 parking, $60 gas, $13.25 turnpike toll, at least $10 equivalent to the included meal/snack, 8 hours of your own time driving back and forth at minimum wage = $58. Total= ~$236 You think $265 is way overpriced? That's remarkably cheap for a travel package.

Seriously, take a look around the web and look at other packages at schools.

This sounds like Federal Gov type numbers and spin. You are not factoring in that most people would travel with at least one other person and maybe 4 total in a car. Re-do your math with 4 people in a group and you will see that spending $265 x 4 = $1060 is extremely expensive compared to driving yourself. Just saying........

 

[CrazyPaco]

The package you outline above seems within an acceptable range based upon my frequent travels--although admittedly, I do not do bus travel. What amazes me is that people are too lazy to schedule/arrange their own travel. With the Internet today, nearly any moron could do so in a couple of minutes. If the bus is too expensive, pack your Hyundai and off you go. There are a plethora of cheap-ass hotels surrounding Annapolis within an hour if you are not able to go down and back in the same day. Sometimes I have to remind myself that the vast majority of these people actually have a college degree--and from Pitt no less. Such as it is. Hail to Pitt!

I don't get it either. I've never done an official package. It is way cheaper to do it yourself. That's how I was able to travel all over the country, including Phoenix 3 times, on a grad student stipend. Travel packages are always "over-priced." You pay for the convenience of not having to do any work at all.

If we don't sell out our allotment for this bowl, we never will. Really, for a bowl this close we should already be at the point of asking for more tickets. This is the best opportunity Pitt has ever had to try to fight its reputation for piss poor travel.

 

[Teh Teh]

I went to all bham games, charlotte, El paso insight and Fiesta and the only time I felt embarrassed at the turnout was in Phoenix

I think Pitt did well in all the other bowl games I went to fan wise.

Ole miss at bham had far more fans but it was like an hour drive for them. But I was impressed by all three bham turnouts

 

[CrazyPaco]

This sounds like Federal Gov type numbers and spin. You are not factoring in that most people would travel with at least one other person and maybe 4 total in a car. Re-do your math with 4 people in a group and you will see that spending $265 x 4 = $1060 is extremely expensive compared to driving yourself. Just saying........

I assume people doing a bus trip are not traveling in groups of 4 that could otherwise make the easy drive to Annapolis themselves. Otherwise, what you say is absolutely true, and maybe it is not remarkably cheap as I indicated, but it certainly is in the range of normal sports travel package prices. If Pitt could guarantee travel agencies bigger numbers, those prices might drop. Unfortunately, Pitt can't even seem to guarantee the minimum 40 passengers to make this worthwhile for the travel agency, because PrimeSports stipulates that the trip is contingent on getting that many reservations.

And driving oneself is an easy solution, so the angst over the price seems fairly misplaced. It is just more of the same people pissing all over things in a public forum for the purposes of making themselves feel better.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I went to all bham games, charlotte, El paso insight and Fiesta and the only time I felt embarrassed at the turnout was in Phoenix

I think Pitt did well in all the other bowl games I went to fan wise.

Ole miss at bham had far more fans but it was like an hour drive for them. But I was impressed by all three bham turnouts

No, Pitt did not do well in any of them. I've been to 11 of the past 13. TBH, I don't know what crowds you are looking at. I don't think Pitt has ever sold out their ticket allotment, or even really come close. In my observation, turnouts ranged from putrid to poor. I thought the Bham bowl games had awful attendance. Last year in Houston was ridiculous...literally I don't know if there were 200 people in the stands. 1st Charlotte bowl was better than the second, but the second against UNC had just an absolutely abysmal turnout. El Paso was better than expected considering the difficulty in getting there and that one may honestly have been the best turnout considering the circumstances and travel (plus we were supplemented by a lot of Mexicano Steeler fans). But in pretty much all of them Pitt's section was thoroughly outclassed by the opposition.

 

[Las Panteras]

The obvious answer to the OP statement is which Bowl committee would take that chance? Invite Pitt and their historically weak fan base?

A not so obvious answer is this: Most teams do not travel as well as they used to....for the same reasons that regular season attendance is lower than say 10 years ago. The cost to see a lesser bowl (and after the final four....they all are lesser bowls) coupled with the magic of a 60 inch flatscreen results in less people traveling to bowls.

This only makes Pitt's challenge even greater.

 

[PITTLAW]

No, Pitt did not do well in any of them. I've been to 11 of the past 13. I don't know what crowds you are looking at. Most turnouts ranged from putrid to poor.

Sadly you are 100% correct. The "recent" bowl that really surprised me with how bad the Pitt fan turn out was the Fiesta Bowl in 2004. Finally Pitt makes a BCS big time bowl, and crickets from the fans. Perhaps they knew Utah would slaughter us? Pitt better watch out on basketball...as I see attendance continuing to slide. This is the worst year since the Pete opened for attendance--and I base this upon personal attendance and the lack of market on StubHub for reselling tickets I cannot use. Barnes and company have some real work ahead of them to get that aircraft carrier turned! Hail to Pitt!

 

[ThePanthers]

This sounds like Federal Gov type numbers and spin. You are not factoring in that most people would travel with at least one other person and maybe 4 total in a car. Re-do your math with 4 people in a group and you will see that spending $265 x 4 = $1060 is extremely expensive compared to driving yourself. Just saying........

You are also paying someone wages to drive for you, the wear and tear on the bus, cleaning services, dumping out the bathroom waste on the bus bathroom, etc, etc.

Unless you do that in your car, add in those costs.

 

[ThePanthers]

Sadly you are 100% correct. The "recent" bowl that really surprised me with how bad the Pitt fan turn out was the Fiesta Bowl in 2004. Finally Pitt makes a BCS big time bowl, and crickets from the fans. Perhaps they knew Utah would slaughter us? Pitt better watch out on basketball...as I see attendance continuing to slide. This is the worst year since the Pete opened for attendance--and I base this upon personal attendance and the lack of market on StubHub for reselling tickets I cannot use. Barnes and company have some real work ahead of them to get that aircraft carrier turned! Hail to Pitt!

That Fiesta bowl was embarrassing. You finally make it to a BCS game, and no one shows up. My family and I had a blast there. Between being in Phoenix, having the big NY bash the night before, and the game atmosphere itself, it was fun. But of course most Pitt fans don't want to travel that far, it was an 8-3 team that backed into it, etc, etc. All of the normal excuses. We were in a sea of red.

I've been to the 2000 Insight bowl, 2001 Tangerine bowl, 2004 Fiesta Bowl, and 2004 Tire bowl against UVA. I also plan on going to to this bowl as well.

Between then we missed a bowl game 3 years and I had 2 children, so I had to take a small hiatus, but now that the kids are getting older, the bowl trips are back on.

Road games are absolutely the best. Since I graduated college in 2000, I've been to 17 regular season road games, and the above bowl games.

 

[Piranha]

I had a great time in our last Fiesta Bowl. I would say about 10k Pitt fans.

 

[ThePanthers]

I had a great time in our last Fiesta Bowl. I would say about 10k Pitt fans.

I wouldn't even say that close.

 

[NTOP]

That package includes a $55 ticket which otherwise would have a $15 handling charge. If one were driving themselves from Pittsburgh they'd also be paying $25 parking, $60 gas, $13.25 turnpike toll, at least $10 equivalent to the included meal/snack, 8 hours of your own time driving back and forth at minimum wage = $58. Total= ~$236 You think $265 is way overpriced? That's remarkably cheap for a travel package. Travel packages are always "over priced." You are paying for the convenience of not putting together you own travel plans.

Seriously, take a look around the web and look at similar packages at other schools.

You'd need to add-in the minimum wage loss to the bus package. And, since almost all folks driving will have at least 2 in the car....the bus pkg should only appeal to those who don't want to drive those distances. I may just ask James from State College to lend me the Ped State chopper.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Pitt needs to think a bit outside the box. Maybe add an additional $20 charge for each season ticket requiring a donation, and use that revenue at the end of each year to guarantee a certain amount of tickets sold to bowl games. If there are 10,000 of these seats (Just a guess) with an added $20 fee, then that is $200,000 in bowl ticket revenue and Barnes can go to the Gator Bowl and say the first 2500 tickets are bought and paid for. Then give those fans one free ticket for every season ticket they bought. I'm thinking this would help tremendously with Pitt selling near its allotment.

 

[HailtoPitt]

The $265 includes an $80 lower level ticket but that bus fare is still incredibally overpriced for an 8 hour round trip daytrip.

There is a reason why people in the travel industry acquire lots of wealth.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

No, Pitt did not do well in any of them. I've been to 11 of the past 13. TBH, I don't know what crowds you are looking at. I don't think Pitt has ever sold out their ticket allotment, or even really come close. In my observation, turnouts ranged from putrid to poor. I thought the Bham bowl games had awful attendance. Last year in Houston was ridiculous...literally I don't know if there were 200 people in the stands. 1st Charlotte bowl was better than the second, but the second against UNC had just an absolutely abysmal turnout. El Paso was better than expected considering the difficulty in getting there and that one may honestly have been the best turnout considering the circumstances and travel (plus we were supplemented by a lot of Mexicano Steeler fans). But in pretty much all of them Pitt's section was thoroughly outclassed by the opposition.

May have had something to do with an absolute abysmal finish to the season, blowing a huge lead against Cinci and also losing to WVU. I think if the results were reversed; beating WVU & Cinci, finish with a top 10 ranking to play against Florida in the Sugar bowl, it would have been a very good crowd.

Please show me outside of the true blue bloods (OSU, ND,etc) any team that sells many tickets to non P5 bowls that involve significant travel. As I posted earlier, VaTech and others even struggle with BCS bowls.

 

[ThePanthers]

Pitt needs to think a bit outside the box. Maybe add an additional $20 charge for each season ticket requiring a donation, and use that revenue at the end of each year to guarantee a certain amount of tickets sold to bowl games. If there are 10,000 of these seats (Just a guess) with an added $20 fee, then that is $200,000 in bowl ticket revenue and Barnes can go to the Gator Bowl and say the first 2500 tickets are bought and paid for. Then give those fans one free ticket for every season ticket they bought. I'm thinking this would help tremendously with Pitt selling near its allotment.

So here is a ticket, now book the flights, hotel, etc, etc.

The ticket is not the issue. It's getting the fan to actually go. The bowl/host town rely not only on the tickets sold, but people eating at restaurants, staying in hotels, concessions sold at the game, etc.

I don't know how that helps one bit with getting fans to go.

 

[HailtoPitt]

So here is a ticket, now book the flights, hotel, etc, etc.

The ticket is not the issue. It's getting the fan to actually go. The bowl/host town rely not only on the tickets sold, but people eating at restaurants, staying in hotels, concessions sold at the game, etc.

I don't know how that helps one bit with getting fans to go.

I don't think that stuff would matter for NYC, but it probably would for Jacksonville.

Interesting though, that just one game can make such a huge difference for an area.