So, your premise is that PITT couldn't win anything of "substance" (care to define this) with consistent Top 30 classes? Care to take a look at some very solid teams who recruit at that level, who have won major bowl games/P5 division/conference titles in the last 3 years? We all want excellent recruiting classes, ranked in the Top 5. That just isn't likely to happen in the near future. With that said, PITT can still achieve a spot in the ACC Championship Game. Even if they lose to Clemson/FSU, they are still going to an excellent bowl game.
Is it too early to be concerned with recruiting thus far?
- Thread starter ERICCARTMAN
- Start date
So, your premise is that PITT couldn't win anything of "substance" (care to define this) with consistent Top 30 classes? Care to take a look at some very solid teams who recruit at that level, who have won major bowl games/P5 division/conference titles in the last 3 years? We all want excellent recruiting classes, ranked in the Top 5. That just isn't likely to happen in the near future. With that said, PITT can still achieve a spot in the ACC Championship Game. Even if they lose to Clemson/FSU, they are still going to an excellent bowl game.
How are we stacked at RB after this year? We took one last year, who was not a real P5 recruit and then Sibley this year, who is essentially the same after OSU, UM, and even UK pulled off of him.
WR is painfully thin on talent, depth, and experience. Ford is a great prospect, but he isn't going to play much on offense.
Hopefully Clark is the real deal, but with his recruitment and abrupt transfer, I certainly am worried he will be a flake and not put in the work.
I don't think there is any issue with the defensive recruiting, even if they take some fliers on low level recruits they think have potential, but the offensive recruiting is leaving a lot to be desired thus far.
-If you load and I mean completely load the defensive line and defense appropriately, you have a chance to beat anybody
-Michigan State has been the big dog in the Big Ten. They have won the Big 10 3 times the last 6 years, and have been beating Ohio State the last 3 years. They do it with defense.
Consistent #40 classes aren't close to consistent #10 classes. The difference in talent is enormous. Coaching can make a difference. It can't make a consistent difference like that. The guys getting top 10-15 classes aren't bad coaches, so you are really talking about jumping those middling programs between that.
Winning the ACC. Could we outperform and pull in upset in the title game? Sure. Is it likely to all work out that way in one year, without some real big luck and fantastic scouting/coaching? Not really.
I think Pitt should be competing for ACC championships every year and winning the conference 2-3 times a decade. That is my goal for Pitt. Unbalanced classes that barely make the top 30-40 don't get us there. I think Narduzzi can get Pitt to that point, but the recruiting (especially offensively) needs to get much better IMO.
And I don't care at all about bowl games outside of playoffs and the BCS/conference winner alignment bowls. We will consistently be passed over for school's with better fan support, so I'm not going to hold that against CPN. All you can judge him (fairly) on is what he does in getting talent and producing on the field.
I think every fan is on board with what you have outlined, however, there are very few programs that can sustain that sort of success. I'm not saying that PITT under HCPN couldn't reach that level at some point, but to think the recruits are going to fall on PITT's doorstep in Year 2 of the current regime, with a new offensive coordinator, is borderline crazy.
-Pitt had the ACC freshmen of the year in Ollison. Moss is a really good player. And you have a speed burner added in George Hill. You have a 4 Star in Hall. Regardless of your opinion on Sibley, he is still a 4 Star ranked RB in the Top 250. Of the RB players that have come through this program, guys like James Conner, Dion Lewis, Qadree Ollison, Ray Graham, recruit rankings when it comes to RB's doesnt mean anything. That is the one position they dont matter, the offer sheet doesnt matter. Its all about the skill, speed, and power.
-Pitt isn't running a spread offense. We are running a Power Run Game Offense. A lot of the sets are going to have 2 WR's or less on the field. I like Flowers, and I like Henderson.
-Chris Clark had around 50 offers before he decided on UCLA, from every power program in the country. The guy is huge. He certainly won't be any worse than any player on our current team at TE. He averaged 20 yards per catch in high school, so he is a big target to throw to. Yea, his recruitment was weird, but that doesnt mean he isnt good.
Agreed it is very hard to sustain, but usually the issue with sustaining it is the HC leaving, not because there is a significant drop off with a coach who has gotten to that consistent level.
I am not asking for fantastic results offensively, but I do expect more because I think we need a lot more to get to that level of success. I'd be less worried about defensive recruits being lower level guys because I certainly trust the staff on that side a lot more.
Yep and Ollison is a good player. After that, things are pretty bare if Hill plays on defense, which seems likely. Moss was a low level recruit. You talk out of both sides of your mouth depending on the argument you want to make. Offers are great and Clark and Ford are fantastic because they had stars and offers, but RB offers and/or stars don't matter.
Two WRs, who were mid level recruited players, means you lack depth in an enormous way.
Clark has a lot of talent and upside. Certainly the rest of the TE group is very shallow on talent, so it is his show next year. One of the reasons you need so much talent is guys with talent can miss for a variety of reasons. It could be work ethic, grades, missing Mom, girls, etc. Clark certainly has some personality/commitment flags. I think he can be very good, but we are very thin there. If he flakes, for any reason, we are in trouble at TE.
Good perspective. Since we have an experienced/high-level defensive coaching staff, you are more willing to take on projects that can be coached on the defensive side of the ball? Whereas, on the offensive side, where the PITT coaches may lack in experience, they need more high-level recruits who are ready to play immediately. I can certainly live with that.
VA, on the offensive side the coaches do not lack experience. peterson, powell, sherman, salem and canada have a lot of experience.
the defensive side has less experience overall.
the defensive side has less experience overall.
Yeah, I am certainly more willing to "trust the coaches" on the defensive side of the ball than the offensive. And that isn't to say I expect every offensive recruit to be great, but there need to be at least a few high level playmakers in each class IMO.
True, but that discounts HCPN and the success and focus on defense. That is what sways me. Like you could say the same about Alabama, but I think we all know which side of the ball we feel they have the best advantage.
rip, i agree with you. just pointing out the offensive coaches do not lack experience.
-Im saying it means less for a RB. We have had 3 conference player of the year RB's in Conner, Lewis, and Ollison, and none of them were highly rated or recruited. And I think Moss is good. His tape looks good. The Coaches like him. He was one of the first guys picked for the spring game. And he was included on the prelim depth chart as a true freshmen. The only area he lacks is gamebreaking speed.
-As I said, I like the trio of Flowers, Henderson, and Clark. Its unproven. And yes, I acknowledged the depth issue.
When you're a Pitt fan, it's never too early to worry about recruiting....
Even if there wasn't, we'd find something else to worry about....
Even if there wasn't, we'd find something else to worry about....
I love people acting like this is Pitt unique. Alabama fans are worrying about their QB and were worrying about recruiting last year. Interestingly, I'd say this board is less concerned with actually discussing Pitt and acknowledging weaknesses than any other I have come across, save maybe PSU. Perhaps, in comparison, that is why the sunshine pumpers think it is mostly negative
Agree, think about the '18 class....we don't have ANY commits yet!!!!!! This time last year, we had Ford and Lee committed. WTF are we gonna doooo!!!!!!!!!
In all seriousness, when you're a school at Pitt's level, you should always be concerned about recruiting. Everybody wants to recruit like OSU, LSU, Bama etc but realisticly, we never will.
I also agree that I would like to see more stars on offense, but for the 2nd year in a row, its not going to happen. Right now the stars on defense continue to show interesr in Pitt/Narduzzi and he is appropriately trying his best to get them. Think about Pitt's OC position, we're on our 3rd guy in 3 years and the current guy has been at 5 different schools in 6 years. If your game best fit a certain style of offense, would you be all over going to Pitt if we've had that much change??
QB - we need McVittie to be a star. If he's not, we're in trouble. The UCF kid is a backup, same as DiNucci. Lost out on Jurk, which sucks. I like Doyle, but we have a need next year.
RB - no concern. Ollison doesn't get the credit he deserves. Hall has a ton of talent but was coming off a knee injury last year and imo should RS this year, but won't. Sibley is a 4* back that was good enough last year for OSU to accept him as their 1st verbal. Ibrahim and Moss for depth.
TE - Clark then....major concern here. They need to go back to selling out for Reeves. They can't lose him to Syracuse.
OL - so tough to ever evaluate these guys. They are getting some stars, but you never know till these fat guys get on the field and prove it.
WR - Major concern. Pitt needs starters here and only seem to bring in depth type players. Flowers IMO is the next great one, but you can't have 1 and then a bunch of situational players. They need 2 Reuben Flowers a year if they want consistant ACC championships.
Looks like the trick for now is to stack the D, and win, which will cause the offensive talent to want to be a part of a winning team in the future. I'm all for an '85 bears strategy of dominating D, super star rb, average qb, average wr's and a pounding OL.
I also agree that I would like to see more stars on offense, but for the 2nd year in a row, its not going to happen. Right now the stars on defense continue to show interesr in Pitt/Narduzzi and he is appropriately trying his best to get them. Think about Pitt's OC position, we're on our 3rd guy in 3 years and the current guy has been at 5 different schools in 6 years. If your game best fit a certain style of offense, would you be all over going to Pitt if we've had that much change??
QB - we need McVittie to be a star. If he's not, we're in trouble. The UCF kid is a backup, same as DiNucci. Lost out on Jurk, which sucks. I like Doyle, but we have a need next year.
RB - no concern. Ollison doesn't get the credit he deserves. Hall has a ton of talent but was coming off a knee injury last year and imo should RS this year, but won't. Sibley is a 4* back that was good enough last year for OSU to accept him as their 1st verbal. Ibrahim and Moss for depth.
TE - Clark then....major concern here. They need to go back to selling out for Reeves. They can't lose him to Syracuse.
OL - so tough to ever evaluate these guys. They are getting some stars, but you never know till these fat guys get on the field and prove it.
WR - Major concern. Pitt needs starters here and only seem to bring in depth type players. Flowers IMO is the next great one, but you can't have 1 and then a bunch of situational players. They need 2 Reuben Flowers a year if they want consistant ACC championships.
Looks like the trick for now is to stack the D, and win, which will cause the offensive talent to want to be a part of a winning team in the future. I'm all for an '85 bears strategy of dominating D, super star rb, average qb, average wr's and a pounding OL.
Good and fair assessment, although I think RB is pretty questionable after Ollison next year.
So long as Rivals, Scout, 247 Sports, ESPN, and others put out Rankings it is not early it is a reality and how much that affects some recruiting decisions in not known until Signing Day and end of season play as well as the big push on Commits and De-Commits before and on Signing Day.
Current Rival Rankings
50 PITT 13th ACC
47 WVU 8th Big-12
27 PENN STATE 7th Big-10
So Little Done So Much To Do!
Top Rivals Three:
1. BAMA
2. OSU
3. LSU
So Much Done And So Much To Keep Up!
Current Rival Rankings
50 PITT 13th ACC
47 WVU 8th Big-12
27 PENN STATE 7th Big-10
So Little Done So Much To Do!
Top Rivals Three:
1. BAMA
2. OSU
3. LSU
So Much Done And So Much To Keep Up!
Moss was supposed to have been the best RB during Spring practices. Dion Lewis was a low level recruit.
Using class rankings as an arbiter of quality is foolishness. Class rank is as much a by-product of quantity (how many recruits in a class) as it is quality (how good are the recruits you land)
Moss' situation and Lewis' situations were very different and they are pretty different backs, but sure outliers are cool.
I agree on class size affecting ranking. That helped prop ours up higher last year. I'm not hung up on it.
I agree they haven't done real well on offense but Sibley is a guy who was a big recruit thats on board for 2017. They need to land a big time WR and another lineman or two.
Not really different at all. Ollison was not a highly sought after recruit and had a middling offer sheet as well. As for style...who cares? Lewis, Shady and Graham had wiggle and jump cuts. Conner and Ollison are more power backs. All were successful and effective.
PhPanther1, post: 1456112, member: 37896"]In all seriousness, when you're a school at Pitt's level, you should always be concerned about recruiting. Everybody wants to recruit like OSU, LSU, Bama etc but realisticly, we never will.
One need not get to the Top 10 because many Programs can become Top 15 to Top 25 Teams Winning with Top 30-50 Recruiting so long as Coaching is great, consistent and stays at Pitt to build stability. In time Higher Winning brings better Recruiting but always hard work by the Staff & AD Support Department. You are correct for now and up to Pitt's Pat Narduzzi & University Support to get it done for the future.
I also agree that I would like to see more stars on offense, but for the 2nd year in a row, its not going to happen. Right now the stars on defense continue to show interesr in Pitt/Narduzzi and he is appropriately trying his best to get them. Think about Pitt's OC position, we're on our 3rd guy in 3 years and the current guy has been at 5 different schools in 6 years. If your game best fit a certain style of offense, would you be all over going to Pitt if we've had that much change??
A Smart Coach once told me CFB Games are decided by 4 to 6 Plays by 2 to 3 Players. TCU built their Program on Great Coaching much like MSU, NW, UCLA, and Stanford.
Other do it with Top Program Resources that include everything Coaching, Staffing, Roster Sizes, Summer Camps, Coaching Clinics, Boosters, and Big Winning in the Top 10-25.
Some Programs use those Recruiting Program Resources in outright cheating or cover ups until caught by NCAA or Media, then fade or drop back until they can comeback? Some Powerful Programs can survive in Winning with sanctions like USC and PSU and others have shown over the years. The Top Programs making the most income can always afford better Coaches & Salaries to turn it around far easier.
Yet, others can always maintain and edge due to superb Coaching & AD Support and it is a battle every year to stay in the Top 10-25. Some Programs have 30 Staffers just on Recruiting. Pitt's AD Barnes just talked about filing vacancies just a few months ago, so little done and so much to do. Bigger Top 10-25 Programs also require Top Coaching to maintain Top Recruiting and will replace coaches that win 10 games every year if they can't win 11 to 12 more often on that level.
Pitt has to rebuild its Program in all areas above and won't cut corners on Compliance so Pitt has to do it the TCU, MSU, NW, and Stanford way along with being a Urban University that competes and share with Pro-Sports support dollars, Pirates, Steelers, and Penguins attendance events, and is not a large State School that has many Alumni in numbers to maintain support. Pitt is dependent on Great Coaching and keeping that Coaching that it has has found hard to do since 1939? Yet, TCU, NW, and GT has been able to do it, Pitt should be able to get to the next step too?
QB - we need McVittie to be a star. If he's not, we're in trouble. The UCF kid is a backup, same as DiNucci. Lost out on Jurk, which sucks. I like Doyle, but we have a need next year.
I don't this area, but I know Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame and Penn State Summer Camp Recruits are invited from 8th to 12th Grades to develop Pipelines for knowing who will be a Top QBs in the future. recruiting often starts at that time and on that level. By the time 11th Grade rolls around they are already known and sought after but Great Coaching can develop Gems as well. I leave that to Posters that are Experts on such Recruits, Pitt may pursue or know what Coaches want to pursue.
RB - no concern. Ollison doesn't get the credit he deserves. Hall has a ton of talent but was coming off a knee injury last year and imo should RS this year, but won't. Sibley is a 4* back that was good enough last year for OSU to accept him as their 1st verbal. Ibrahim and Moss for depth.
Pitt always finds and develops Great Running Backs as seen under many coaches since 1972? I am always amazed by it, and Pitt Fans are proud of it too. Thanks for the input because I have no clue who is out there?
TE - Clark then....major concern here. They need to go back to selling out for Reeves. They can't lose him to Syracuse.
Ditto, I have no clue! I love Orndoff ability to run after the catch, block, and was a QB in High School with a great throwing Arm, hope OC Canada uses that Arm, Legs, and Catching to run, but Pitt needs TE Back-Ups!
OL - so tough to ever evaluate these guys. They are getting some stars, but you never know till these fat guys get on the field and prove it.
So true, and depends on great OLC developing them with the Conditioning Coach and then blending them into a Unit and requires much experience as they learn together. Once in a while a freshmen arrives that is instantly great but that happen rarely and usually at Top 15 Recruiting Programs.
WR - Major concern. Pitt needs starters here and only seem to bring in depth type players. Flowers IMO is the next great one, but you can't have 1 and then a bunch of situational players. They need 2 Reuben Flowers a year if they want consistant ACC championships.
Pitt always finds one but always needs more like you point out. Had foster joined Boyd at Pitt, one only wonders what could have happen? Yet, Fitzgerald, Bryant, and Boyd types need to commit to Pitt more often than every 5-10 years?
Looks like the trick for now is to stack the D, and win, which will cause the offensive talent to want to be a part of a winning team in the future. I'm all for an '85 bears strategy of dominating D, super star rb, average qb, average wr's and a pounding OL.
Well, Narduzzi watched and learned under Tressel's OSU's once DC Dantonio do it at UCincy and MSU and is ready to do it at Pitt too. I like he has been able to put together a group of Coaches at Pitt, that can develop Players. but only the second year with a far tougher schedule this year.
The game against Penn State this year and next 3 has big implications on Pennsylvania Recruiting for immediate years to come.
The game against OKSU Away wills how how far Pitt Pat & Staff has come to compare with a Team and Coach with many Players back, and early test of all Pitt Players?
The games against Miami and UNC will decide the ACC Coastal Champs as well all in them.
The game against Clemson will show how far Pitt has to go to play with Elites!
It is still mostly Chryst's Recruits and Pitt still has so much to do to Win and build a Program.
Injuries can play a huge role until Pitt's Pat & Staff develop their own Recruiting and Developing Player's Program this year. Pitt has the 2 to 3 Players to make 4 to 6 Players to win critical games with great Game Plans, Half-Time Adjustments and Execution, but the Pipelines of finding recruits are just being built and so little done and so much to do, ND, UM, MSU, OSU, PSU, and all of the ACC are doing the same thing and now up to Pitt to make Pitt Is It Again in the Top 25 and beyond.
I do not care to make excuses for Pitt but I do feel Pitt has the Chancellor's Vision and Coach to rebuild Pitt into a Top 25 Program. The Athletic Director that supports them in doing it too, unlike the other one whose ego was always putting himself before the Universities, Programs and Coaching at Pitt and Nebraska. Pederson failed at both places to develop a Top 25 Program at Pitt, and could not maintain a Top 25 Program at Nebraska and left both with challenges to overcome Pederson's Poison that only put Nebraska's & Pitt's Buyouts in his own pockets?
Again, Pitt can only rebuild Pitt's Football Program!
One need not get to the Top 10 because many Programs can become Top 15 to Top 25 Teams Winning with Top 30-50 Recruiting so long as Coaching is great, consistent and stays at Pitt to build stability. In time Higher Winning brings better Recruiting but always hard work by the Staff & AD Support Department. You are correct for now and up to Pitt's Pat Narduzzi & University Support to get it done for the future.
I also agree that I would like to see more stars on offense, but for the 2nd year in a row, its not going to happen. Right now the stars on defense continue to show interesr in Pitt/Narduzzi and he is appropriately trying his best to get them. Think about Pitt's OC position, we're on our 3rd guy in 3 years and the current guy has been at 5 different schools in 6 years. If your game best fit a certain style of offense, would you be all over going to Pitt if we've had that much change??
A Smart Coach once told me CFB Games are decided by 4 to 6 Plays by 2 to 3 Players. TCU built their Program on Great Coaching much like MSU, NW, UCLA, and Stanford.
Other do it with Top Program Resources that include everything Coaching, Staffing, Roster Sizes, Summer Camps, Coaching Clinics, Boosters, and Big Winning in the Top 10-25.
Some Programs use those Recruiting Program Resources in outright cheating or cover ups until caught by NCAA or Media, then fade or drop back until they can comeback? Some Powerful Programs can survive in Winning with sanctions like USC and PSU and others have shown over the years. The Top Programs making the most income can always afford better Coaches & Salaries to turn it around far easier.
Yet, others can always maintain and edge due to superb Coaching & AD Support and it is a battle every year to stay in the Top 10-25. Some Programs have 30 Staffers just on Recruiting. Pitt's AD Barnes just talked about filing vacancies just a few months ago, so little done and so much to do. Bigger Top 10-25 Programs also require Top Coaching to maintain Top Recruiting and will replace coaches that win 10 games every year if they can't win 11 to 12 more often on that level.
Pitt has to rebuild its Program in all areas above and won't cut corners on Compliance so Pitt has to do it the TCU, MSU, NW, and Stanford way along with being a Urban University that competes and share with Pro-Sports support dollars, Pirates, Steelers, and Penguins attendance events, and is not a large State School that has many Alumni in numbers to maintain support. Pitt is dependent on Great Coaching and keeping that Coaching that it has has found hard to do since 1939? Yet, TCU, NW, and GT has been able to do it, Pitt should be able to get to the next step too?
QB - we need McVittie to be a star. If he's not, we're in trouble. The UCF kid is a backup, same as DiNucci. Lost out on Jurk, which sucks. I like Doyle, but we have a need next year.
I don't this area, but I know Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame and Penn State Summer Camp Recruits are invited from 8th to 12th Grades to develop Pipelines for knowing who will be a Top QBs in the future. recruiting often starts at that time and on that level. By the time 11th Grade rolls around they are already known and sought after but Great Coaching can develop Gems as well. I leave that to Posters that are Experts on such Recruits, Pitt may pursue or know what Coaches want to pursue.
RB - no concern. Ollison doesn't get the credit he deserves. Hall has a ton of talent but was coming off a knee injury last year and imo should RS this year, but won't. Sibley is a 4* back that was good enough last year for OSU to accept him as their 1st verbal. Ibrahim and Moss for depth.
Pitt always finds and develops Great Running Backs as seen under many coaches since 1972? I am always amazed by it, and Pitt Fans are proud of it too. Thanks for the input because I have no clue who is out there?
TE - Clark then....major concern here. They need to go back to selling out for Reeves. They can't lose him to Syracuse.
Ditto, I have no clue! I love Orndoff ability to run after the catch, block, and was a QB in High School with a great throwing Arm, hope OC Canada uses that Arm, Legs, and Catching to run, but Pitt needs TE Back-Ups!
OL - so tough to ever evaluate these guys. They are getting some stars, but you never know till these fat guys get on the field and prove it.
So true, and depends on great OLC developing them with the Conditioning Coach and then blending them into a Unit and requires much experience as they learn together. Once in a while a freshmen arrives that is instantly great but that happen rarely and usually at Top 15 Recruiting Programs.
WR - Major concern. Pitt needs starters here and only seem to bring in depth type players. Flowers IMO is the next great one, but you can't have 1 and then a bunch of situational players. They need 2 Reuben Flowers a year if they want consistant ACC championships.
Pitt always finds one but always needs more like you point out. Had foster joined Boyd at Pitt, one only wonders what could have happen? Yet, Fitzgerald, Bryant, and Boyd types need to commit to Pitt more often than every 5-10 years?
Looks like the trick for now is to stack the D, and win, which will cause the offensive talent to want to be a part of a winning team in the future. I'm all for an '85 bears strategy of dominating D, super star rb, average qb, average wr's and a pounding OL.
Well, Narduzzi watched and learned under Tressel's OSU's once DC Dantonio do it at UCincy and MSU and is ready to do it at Pitt too. I like he has been able to put together a group of Coaches at Pitt, that can develop Players. but only the second year with a far tougher schedule this year.
The game against Penn State this year and next 3 has big implications on Pennsylvania Recruiting for immediate years to come.
The game against OKSU Away wills how how far Pitt Pat & Staff has come to compare with a Team and Coach with many Players back, and early test of all Pitt Players?
The games against Miami and UNC will decide the ACC Coastal Champs as well all in them.
The game against Clemson will show how far Pitt has to go to play with Elites!
It is still mostly Chryst's Recruits and Pitt still has so much to do to Win and build a Program.
Injuries can play a huge role until Pitt's Pat & Staff develop their own Recruiting and Developing Player's Program this year. Pitt has the 2 to 3 Players to make 4 to 6 Players to win critical games with great Game Plans, Half-Time Adjustments and Execution, but the Pipelines of finding recruits are just being built and so little done and so much to do, ND, UM, MSU, OSU, PSU, and all of the ACC are doing the same thing and now up to Pitt to make Pitt Is It Again in the Top 25 and beyond.
I do not care to make excuses for Pitt but I do feel Pitt has the Chancellor's Vision and Coach to rebuild Pitt into a Top 25 Program. The Athletic Director that supports them in doing it too, unlike the other one whose ego was always putting himself before the Universities, Programs and Coaching at Pitt and Nebraska. Pederson failed at both places to develop a Top 25 Program at Pitt, and could not maintain a Top 25 Program at Nebraska and left both with challenges to overcome Pederson's Poison that only put Nebraska's & Pitt's Buyouts in his own pockets?
Again, Pitt can only rebuild Pitt's Football Program!
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c'mon now. lets not act like Ollison was a low rated recruit with little in the way of offers. he had 15 offers, including 7 schools from the big 10 and yes even psu offered him.
I love Duzz but but but, so far has shown, he is not much better than sleepy at recruiting, and that is starting to worry me. I have faith in him so far, but as I believe Pitt can win a NC again, they won't with these classes, even if Rockne is coaching
Why do so many on this board discount proven track records of successful professionals, and instead, lean on general info and info produced by amateurs?
If the Patriots take a guy late in the first round, do you run to see where Mel Kiper had him slotted, and conclude that Belichick made a huge error if Kiper had the guy in the second or third round?
I hate the Pats, but Belicheat knows what he is doing, and I just assume that the guy he picked is likely pretty good.
And given Narduzzi's successful track record of recruiting and developing kids, why not assume that a kid he gets to commit, seven or eight months ahead of signing day, is pretty good too? Why run to the recruiting sites, where ratings are produced by amateurs (journalists) and put more weight on their view than on Narduzzi's? And why look at offers, which puts more weight on the opinion of other coaching staffs than our own?
Regarding the comment earlier that our RB recruit this year isn't a real P5 recruit, presumably based on a limited offer list, real performance trumps that info right away. Moss enrolled in the Spring and performed so well that the coaches have indicated he won't reshirt. And when players drafted their teammates for the Spring game, he was the first RB taken, ahead of Ollison and Hall. Ignoring that info, but leaning on ratings and offers is sad. I guess you think that 3-star Aaron Donald still isn't any good either.
If the Patriots take a guy late in the first round, do you run to see where Mel Kiper had him slotted, and conclude that Belichick made a huge error if Kiper had the guy in the second or third round?
I hate the Pats, but Belicheat knows what he is doing, and I just assume that the guy he picked is likely pretty good.
And given Narduzzi's successful track record of recruiting and developing kids, why not assume that a kid he gets to commit, seven or eight months ahead of signing day, is pretty good too? Why run to the recruiting sites, where ratings are produced by amateurs (journalists) and put more weight on their view than on Narduzzi's? And why look at offers, which puts more weight on the opinion of other coaching staffs than our own?
Regarding the comment earlier that our RB recruit this year isn't a real P5 recruit, presumably based on a limited offer list, real performance trumps that info right away. Moss enrolled in the Spring and performed so well that the coaches have indicated he won't reshirt. And when players drafted their teammates for the Spring game, he was the first RB taken, ahead of Ollison and Hall. Ignoring that info, but leaning on ratings and offers is sad. I guess you think that 3-star Aaron Donald still isn't any good either.
You realize your premise is not to trust the professionalS (the coaching staffs) but to trust our professional (our coaching staff), right? In one of situations, there no doubt will have to be trust, but overall, if you are bucking the evaluation of other coaches (and yes, likely recruiting rankings as well) on a large scale you are going against logic.
I believe HCPN is a good coach and can do a fine job at Pitt. He has certainly had a part in scouting, recruiting, and developing players in his career. How much was his doing vs. Dantonio or other coaches? Not sure exactly. Probably a decent bit, at least. How much of that was on the offensive side of the ball? Probably very, very little to none. That is certainly where I have more concern with the recruiting of lower level recruits.
Wow. You really put Belichick and PN in the same category. Look, one day they might be, but they are not right now. BB has actually won championships. PN is in his second year as a HC and still looking for an upset as a HC. Pitt is now his program. MSU was and still is Dantonio's program. Here is the rub, assistants really don't get full credit until they run their own program and are successful.
When it comes to college recruiting, there are a lot of good coaches out there. Just like when a highly rated DB passes on us, people come on this board and say, I don't know how that DB can pass on Narduzzi. Well, again, there are a lot of good coaches out there and some have better recruiting staffs.
When you have 15 really really good college coaches all offer one particular kid, that is telling. When you have zero of those coaches offer, that is also telling. Nothing is perfect in this world, but in this case, it's a probability thing. The coaches that have won at the highest level, more times than not, they get it right.
QUOTE="raleighpanther, post: 1458956, member: 4260"]Why do so many on this board discount proven track records of successful professionals, and instead, lean on general info and info produced by amateurs?
If the Patriots take a guy late in the first round, do you run to see where Mel Kiper had him slotted, and conclude that Belichick made a huge error if Kiper had the guy in the second or third round?
I hate the Pats, but Belicheat knows what he is doing, and I just assume that the guy he picked is likely pretty good.
And given Narduzzi's successful track record of recruiting and developing kids, why not assume that a kid he gets to commit, seven or eight months ahead of signing day, is pretty good too? Why run to the recruiting sites, where ratings are produced by amateurs (journalists) and put more weight on their view than on Narduzzi's? And why look at offers, which puts more weight on the opinion of other coaching staffs than our own?
Regarding the comment earlier that our RB recruit this year isn't a real P5 recruit, presumably based on a limited offer list, real performance trumps that info right away. Moss enrolled in the Spring and performed so well that the coaches have indicated he won't reshirt. And when players drafted their teammates for the Spring game, he was the first RB taken, ahead of Ollison and Hall. Ignoring that info, but leaning on ratings and offers is sad. I guess you think that 3-star Aaron Donald still isn't any good either.[/QUOTE]
When it comes to college recruiting, there are a lot of good coaches out there. Just like when a highly rated DB passes on us, people come on this board and say, I don't know how that DB can pass on Narduzzi. Well, again, there are a lot of good coaches out there and some have better recruiting staffs.
When you have 15 really really good college coaches all offer one particular kid, that is telling. When you have zero of those coaches offer, that is also telling. Nothing is perfect in this world, but in this case, it's a probability thing. The coaches that have won at the highest level, more times than not, they get it right.
QUOTE="raleighpanther, post: 1458956, member: 4260"]Why do so many on this board discount proven track records of successful professionals, and instead, lean on general info and info produced by amateurs?
If the Patriots take a guy late in the first round, do you run to see where Mel Kiper had him slotted, and conclude that Belichick made a huge error if Kiper had the guy in the second or third round?
I hate the Pats, but Belicheat knows what he is doing, and I just assume that the guy he picked is likely pretty good.
And given Narduzzi's successful track record of recruiting and developing kids, why not assume that a kid he gets to commit, seven or eight months ahead of signing day, is pretty good too? Why run to the recruiting sites, where ratings are produced by amateurs (journalists) and put more weight on their view than on Narduzzi's? And why look at offers, which puts more weight on the opinion of other coaching staffs than our own?
Regarding the comment earlier that our RB recruit this year isn't a real P5 recruit, presumably based on a limited offer list, real performance trumps that info right away. Moss enrolled in the Spring and performed so well that the coaches have indicated he won't reshirt. And when players drafted their teammates for the Spring game, he was the first RB taken, ahead of Ollison and Hall. Ignoring that info, but leaning on ratings and offers is sad. I guess you think that 3-star Aaron Donald still isn't any good either.[/QUOTE]
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Could have said the exact same thing last year at this time. It's important Pitt has a solid season. AS was the case last year, there are guys out there we, the fans, aren't necessarily tracking now who could be in play after the season. Those kinds of guys rounded out our class last year and made it a good one.
Btw, is ND trying to dominate the state? They picked up another big kid yesterday for 2018 class. Their PA recruiting is going very well.
After reading this board though, I'm not sure why they are accepting verbals for the 2018 class. Many think it's way to early.
After reading this board though, I'm not sure why they are accepting verbals for the 2018 class. Many think it's way to early.
Actually Jprip, you missed my premise when you said "You realize your premise is not to trust the professionalS (the coaching staffs) but to trust our professional (our coaching staff), right?"
My premise is really the opposite, that people shouldn't trust other staff's opinions more than ours (and I see that happening all the time), not that we should necessarily trust ours more. When people dismiss a recruit because few other coaches made an offer, they are saying that our staff doesn't know what its doing; a recruits value is only validated by other coaches.
When the top 10 coaches in the country offer a kid, I think we can all agree that he is a good prospect. But the absence of offers doesn't necessarily mean the kid is NO good. Many very good players get overlooked by even the best coaches (Dion Lewis had zero P5 offers outside of Pitt; Conner had few.) And some players aren't the right fit for some programs.
Narduzzi has recruited a few DBs who were overlooked by others, 2 star guys, and they become 1st round picks.
I forget which Pgh writer wrote it, but he said that he never met a coach who cared less about what anyone else thought about the quality of his recruits.
I'm not saying anyone should jump up and down for every Pitt recruit that commits, but I disagree with the blanket dismissal, or disappointment expressed, because the secondary validation that some seek isn't strong.
My premise is really the opposite, that people shouldn't trust other staff's opinions more than ours (and I see that happening all the time), not that we should necessarily trust ours more. When people dismiss a recruit because few other coaches made an offer, they are saying that our staff doesn't know what its doing; a recruits value is only validated by other coaches.
When the top 10 coaches in the country offer a kid, I think we can all agree that he is a good prospect. But the absence of offers doesn't necessarily mean the kid is NO good. Many very good players get overlooked by even the best coaches (Dion Lewis had zero P5 offers outside of Pitt; Conner had few.) And some players aren't the right fit for some programs.
Narduzzi has recruited a few DBs who were overlooked by others, 2 star guys, and they become 1st round picks.
I forget which Pgh writer wrote it, but he said that he never met a coach who cared less about what anyone else thought about the quality of his recruits.
I'm not saying anyone should jump up and down for every Pitt recruit that commits, but I disagree with the blanket dismissal, or disappointment expressed, because the secondary validation that some seek isn't strong.
Nobody is a lock
I think we need to start seeing some better LB prospects coming in. Should be an easy sell with our defensive scheme. Forget about Singleton, that's a pipe dream. Hate to,lose out on a high quality local LB like Adams.
Possibly your most reasonable post ever. Agree with most of it, particularly your last paragraph. The offense is in pretty good shape outside of the WR position and future QB quality depth. If we are able to maintain consistent quality starters amd depth on the O line, and if we can find that special difference maker QB, we will be able to take this thing up a couple of notches. Need to work hard every year to bring quality QB prospects in. Most important position to have depth and competition at. Hopes are high for MacVittie, but you can never count on any one unproven guy to be that special QB. Keep em coming.
I think we need to start seeing some better LB prospects coming in. Should be an easy sell with our defensive scheme. Forget about Singleton, that's a pipe dream. Hate to,lose out on a high quality local LB like Adams.
