To see the over the top "immediacy bias" that always effects our fanbase after a loss. So many of us seem to lose all sense of perspective so, so easily.
It is always delightful
- Thread starter DC_Area_Panther
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It’s only a huge loss if Pitt is a serious bubble team. If not it’s more of a hiccup or learning experience for a young team.
Again it is how they are playing, not the actual loss. Some of us knew there was trouble with the Pitt football offense after the Ohio game. But just because Pitt won many chose to go with as long as you win there is no problem.
Now we know there are massive problems with their offense. And some of us who know a little about basketball realize that a team that is selfish and repeatedly takes bad shots is doomed to fail. Problem is those issues could easily be corrected with good coaching that focuses on discipline
IMHO, anyone who really thinks (or thought) we are or were a bubble team is (or was) living in la-la land with their blue and gold colored glasses firmly in place.
Success for this team this season is to win a few more than last year's 14 games (3 ACC wins). Getting to 0.500 or a game or two over was (and is) a reasonable expectation for this team, IMHO. More than that is the proverbial "pipe dream."
IMHO, we should be balancing in our heads our win against a good FSU team and our loss to a team we should have beaten by maybe 10 while also realizing we will play better than we did yesterday. IMHO, Nichols nearly beat Illinois at Illinois means something. But, for me, I was more impressed by Nichols passing the eye test for a team that has good size, very good athleticism and excellent shooting ability.
IMHO, they are in reality probably a fringe top 100 team and not the #250-300 team they were predicted to be pre-season. They have talented players, IMHO--and are not just some collection of verically challenged relatively untalented guys typical of a #250-300 team.
Agree.
We were picked around 10 in the ACC. That represents a good sized jump
from where we were last year. I've posted that moving from 14 to 17 wins
would represent realistic improvement. ACC wins moving from 3 to 7 or
eight would also be very good IMO. 500 in ACC?...highly doubtful.
Despite the Nicholls State game, I still expect us to improve. Just because
we have more experience and better depth doesn't mean it's going to
happen automatically or overnight. It's gonna take a little time for everything
to jell.
We also have no clue as to what the chemistry is like with these guys.
After watching these two games, I see X and Trey taking different roles
this season. There are more weapons to get into the scheme of things.
X and Trey are still our go to guys, but they have to learn not to take it
all on themselves. Brown appears better, there are two frosh plus a
transfer who look good but are still brand new, plus a JUCO (Murphy)
who is a new threat. It's up to Capel to pull this all together. I believe
he will get them on the right track.
To be honest, I don’t think most reactions to the loss were all that over the top at all. Most agreed that we just didn’t play well and we need to play better as a team. That’s pretty true for sure.
Again ... I don’t think anyone truly believed we were a realistic bubble team. Nothing wrong with hoping for that I think. And the Florida St win presented some dare to dream reinforcement. So I get it that it’s a bummer when the dream scenario is now longer.
Right now we need to simply focus on playing better — especially X and Trey.
True enough. I was probably over reacting to those who really believe/believed Nichols was/is correctly rated as a #300 type team likely to finish toward the bottom of their conference.
Well ... that’s all we had to go on. Lol
They surely looked like a pretty solid team to me. The could get into the tournament if they win the conference tournament and could even be something like a 14 seed.
Still a team we gotta beat though.
Sorry DT, but I remember a number of posts this off season talking Bubble, NIT,
and more than one predicting a 20 win season.
As far as the rest of your post, I totally agree with you.
I don't think you were over reacting at all. Some of the posts were of the "blue
and gold colored glasses." La La land was an appropriate description in my
opinion.
NIT yes ... and maybe a few more thinking ... or even saying, bubble after the Florida St win.
A 20 win season is still entirely possible, for what it's worth. Being the proverbial "punishing parent" of the forums by reminding those of us who choose to take a slight view to the upside. It's cool.
However , Capel has some coaching to do with last years class this week. Good God Almighty!
Sagarin’s computer has already kicked them up to #175 and 2nd in their conference as they have so far played more like a Sagarin #83 team.
Poor us, we dropped from Sagarin #61 to Sagarin #112 and only remained ahead of Wake in the ACC. We will probably get a boost from FSU’s 12 point win over #6 Florida (Sagarin #22) today. Just the way these computer predictions work early in the season.
This does illustrate how provisional and volatile these very early computer rankings can and will be.
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I tend to listen to what Capel says. He has been saying that we're young,
still inexperienced, and we need to grow up. We're not in the locker room,
and when he says the FSU game probably went to their heads...I believe
him.
I can just imagine what Capel would say if he saw some of the wild
projections on here. LOL
still inexperienced, and we need to grow up. We're not in the locker room,
and when he says the FSU game probably went to their heads...I believe
him.
I can just imagine what Capel would say if he saw some of the wild
projections on here. LOL
Of course it's possible, and I hope it happens. As far as "those of us who
choose To take a slight view to the upside...yup, I agree "it's cool."
Careful of how you see the others though. I'm as optimistic about this
team and Capel as anyone. I'm just a little more realistic than
predicting a 500 or above ACC record. Calling for improvement like
17 total wins and AT LEAST doubling up last year's ACC record
ain't exactly being negative.
Is this a Capel quote? If so , was he referring to attitude/approach or just the the overall concept of finding ways to win?
Thanks for any insight on these questions.
He's been quoted in the press and on some of the other Pitt athletic sites..
Those were pretty much exact quotes. He seemed to be more upset with the
player's maturity, lack of focus, and thinking they were better than they actually
were. He also said that they were listening too much to the praise they got
after the FSU win. Basically he was talking about maturity and that they
weren't good enough to give less than 100 % focus.
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If you listened to him on the radio after the game yesterday you would know there is no need to include the word "probably" in that sentence. He talked about how they practiced like crap on Thursday and Friday and played like it on Saturday because the FSU game went to their heads.
As pittman71 noted at one point in his two-game thread on basketball IQ, a thread started during the first half of the FSU game and still going after the Nicholls State game, last year Pitt was forced to rely on Johnson's and McGowen's attacking skills. Many posters, and we can assume the coaches, accepted as necessary the frequently poor results that in previous years were the source of severe criticism of players like Wanamaker, Krauser, and others who forced drives when they felt they had to make things happen.
Off-season we talked about improved post play, improved midrange play, and a continuing long-range threat via replacing Frame with Murphy and Drumgoole for potential mitigation as the roster's quality expands. However, after FSU, Capel said that the attacking style is who we are, and both Capel and Hamilton credited our win to our aggressiveness affecting FSU and knocking them back on their heels. We saw that collateral effect in our rebounding and in FSU's reaching fouls. So we want them to attack.
But how much? Against Nicholls St, our two lead guards looked like hot dogs. What does it mean to blame immaturity, as Capel and many posters have? These guys have been playing competitively for a dozen years or more. Maybe they can't finish as consistently at this level (to say nothing of the next) because the defenders are better. Maybe Capel still thinks he has Coach K's players.
It's true that the season is young, and they have time to improve. The coaches are knowledgeable and certainly know exactly why they lost to Nicholls, but we now hear them talking vaguely about a process with the players, which it obviously is, and talking slightly less about their sets. They mention execution, of course, but they don't blame their players too much in public. What does it mean? We will have to watch the next games to infer what they are preaching about guard play and team chemistry.
Pittman71 actually titled his thread "Pitt basketball IQ." The so-called immaturity extended to the level of teamwork, to the players without the ball, who too often didn't help their teammates out of traps, who didn't go to the ball on passes that became turnovers, who didn't position themselves well on shooters who were having success, who were not moving as quickly as the Nicholls players.
After the Italy trip, we heard that the team has bonded well. We have heard that the new players are exceeding expectations. We all were expecting them to play better as a team. Posters are upset because it was so shocking to watch the Nicholls game. So many posters here have coached and played, and almost everyone has memories of having watched and also having heard announcers praise the fundamental soundness and consistency of Pitt basketball. We all know what it looks like. Nicholls made us look fundamentally bad.
Souf said in another thread that we got outplayed and the better team won. It might be just one game, but he was talking about Nicholls State. It's one thing to get outplayed by UNC or UConn or Louisville in the ACC or BE. But we have seen lots of quick teams with shooters like Nicholls before in the OOC. For years and years before the current era, we handled them easily, with only a few exceptions. It may be early in the season or early in the players' careers, but this loss to Nicholls, particularly with the way it happened, really justifies the concerns people are expressing
Off-season we talked about improved post play, improved midrange play, and a continuing long-range threat via replacing Frame with Murphy and Drumgoole for potential mitigation as the roster's quality expands. However, after FSU, Capel said that the attacking style is who we are, and both Capel and Hamilton credited our win to our aggressiveness affecting FSU and knocking them back on their heels. We saw that collateral effect in our rebounding and in FSU's reaching fouls. So we want them to attack.
But how much? Against Nicholls St, our two lead guards looked like hot dogs. What does it mean to blame immaturity, as Capel and many posters have? These guys have been playing competitively for a dozen years or more. Maybe they can't finish as consistently at this level (to say nothing of the next) because the defenders are better. Maybe Capel still thinks he has Coach K's players.
It's true that the season is young, and they have time to improve. The coaches are knowledgeable and certainly know exactly why they lost to Nicholls, but we now hear them talking vaguely about a process with the players, which it obviously is, and talking slightly less about their sets. They mention execution, of course, but they don't blame their players too much in public. What does it mean? We will have to watch the next games to infer what they are preaching about guard play and team chemistry.
Pittman71 actually titled his thread "Pitt basketball IQ." The so-called immaturity extended to the level of teamwork, to the players without the ball, who too often didn't help their teammates out of traps, who didn't go to the ball on passes that became turnovers, who didn't position themselves well on shooters who were having success, who were not moving as quickly as the Nicholls players.
After the Italy trip, we heard that the team has bonded well. We have heard that the new players are exceeding expectations. We all were expecting them to play better as a team. Posters are upset because it was so shocking to watch the Nicholls game. So many posters here have coached and played, and almost everyone has memories of having watched and also having heard announcers praise the fundamental soundness and consistency of Pitt basketball. We all know what it looks like. Nicholls made us look fundamentally bad.
Souf said in another thread that we got outplayed and the better team won. It might be just one game, but he was talking about Nicholls State. It's one thing to get outplayed by UNC or UConn or Louisville in the ACC or BE. But we have seen lots of quick teams with shooters like Nicholls before in the OOC. For years and years before the current era, we handled them easily, with only a few exceptions. It may be early in the season or early in the players' careers, but this loss to Nicholls, particularly with the way it happened, really justifies the concerns people are expressing
Remember people we only played 2 games and some of you have cast the season a failure already! Someone said it on a thread that Pitt will win some games against teams we shouldn't beat and vice versa. JC will get them playing like a team as soon he can convince X and Trey to trust his new teammates all the time.
True, I was being nice and didn't want to appear as though I had all
the answers and insight to what he said post game. LOL
People on here need to listen to him more often. He sure as hell
doesn't share the notion that it's all gonna turn around easily
this season.
IMO it's a rebuild with an improving cast of players. He's not doing
it with All Americans or for that matter all league players. I'm glad to
see the coach being realistic and bringing people back down to earth.
We're not as good as FSU, and not as bad as we looked against
Nicholls State.
#1 i agree that no one REALLY thought this was a bubble team, but by beating FSU, that is one less acc win they would need in January-March to get on the bubble, so yeah, it gave a hint of optimisim.
#2 This your observation in this post is spot on. Nichols State certainly wasn’t bad and certainly gave pitt the business. That being said, Nichols State can be pretty good and we can still be upset by the loss, those two things aren’t mutually exclusive.
Re #1-true that most didn't expect a bubble team. But, some certainly did.
Re #2- Absolutely true.
Re #2- Absolutely true.
Coach is referring to far more than just scoring when he says "attacking". What I have seen so far from this staff - is a single-minded focus on creating a culture based upon Toughness, Determination, Passion, and Aggression.
How we score, naturally has to have the same core values at play. So he is carefull not to limit them from assaulting the hoop very much, in order to keep "mixed messages" to a minimum. I see his reasoning clearly and it makes sense, in particular with teenagers.
"Wait - you want me to play tough and aggressive in every fasit of the game except the most important one - offense?"
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