Its just bad luck

[Sean Miller Fan]

That has become Dixon's undoing. I am so sick of hearing the tired excuse that Dixon has gotten away from his roots and has recruited a different kind of athlete and we need to start recruiting tough, gritty players again. Nothing can be further from the truth.

Jamie recruited offensive superstars in the Big East and is continuing to recruit those players. He just never has landed them. So, his 2nd choice players, a guy like Wanamaker, who Villanova didn't seriously recruit from their backyard, turned out to be really good. Did Jamie have a great eye for talent? Or did he just get lucky? Similarly, he recruited Josh Newkirk from NCSU's backyard. They passed on him. We took him and he wasnt any good. That's just bad luck.

GB vs Durand Johnson - same thing

Robinson vs Fields - similarly ranked players coming out of HS

Chris Jones vs Antonio Graves - lightly recruited players, Graves considerably better

Malcolm Gilbert vs Gary McGhee

Ashton Gibbs vs John Johnson

We can do this all day. The "type" of player coming out of HS, remains the same. 75-200 type guys. Under-recruited. Earlier, these guys turned out to be really good players. Lately, almost every one has been a "miss."

The "level of recruit" Pitt gets, then and now, is no different than almost any middle of the pack or low end P5 school. I think its just a simple case that Jamie got lucky before. Guys improved, wanted to play D, had an edge to them that you cant accurately guage watching them in HS or AAU.

There's no big mystery here. Our recruiting has been the same in many ways. We've just had an unbelievable string of "misses." And that's what can happen if you cant bring in 1 big-time player per class.

 

[PittPoker]

I am still baffled that we can't bring in more than 1 or 2 McDonald's All-Americans in 20 years. I mean, nice city to play in, nice venue in the Pete and there has been a little success in the NBA like Adams and Blair and Gray.

Look I get that Taylor and Khem didn't work out but c'mon, keep getting a few and I'm sure we'll see some success.

 

[UPitt129]

That has become Dixon's undoing. I am so sick of hearing the tired excuse that Dixon has gotten away from his roots and has recruited a different kind of athlete and we need to start recruiting tough, gritty players again. Nothing can be further from the truth.

Jamie recruited offensive superstars in the Big East and is continuing to recruit those players. He just never has landed them. So, his 2nd choice players, a guy like Wanamaker, who Villanova didn't seriously recruit from their backyard, turned out to be really good. Did Jamie have a great eye for talent? Or did he just get lucky? Similarly, he recruited Josh Newkirk from NCSU's backyard. They passed on him. We took him and he wasnt any good. That's just bad luck.

GB vs Durand Johnson - same thing

Robinson vs Fields - similarly ranked players coming out of HS

Chris Jones vs Antonio Graves - lightly recruited players, Graves considerably better

Malcolm Gilbert vs Gary McGhee

Ashton Gibbs vs John Johnson

We can do this all day. The "type" of player coming out of HS, remains the same. 75-200 type guys. Under-recruited. Earlier, these guys turned out to be really good players. Lately, almost every one has been a "miss."

The "level of recruit" Pitt gets, then and now, is no different than almost any middle of the pack or low end P5 school. I think its just a simple case that Jamie got lucky before. Guys improved, wanted to play D, had an edge to them that you cant accurately guage watching them in HS or AAU.

There's no big mystery here. Our recruiting has been the same in many ways. We've just had an unbelievable string of "misses." And that's what can happen if you cant bring in 1 big-time player per class.

Just because a player is the same star level doesn't mean they have the same skill set. Artis vs Wanamaker is a great example.

Again, the issue isn't offensive skill, it is a basic lack of ability to play defense.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I don't know. A former coach when asked if Jamie has changed recruiting targets he said he is looking for more skilled guys who can score. So in his estimation, we have changed somewhat.

Luck is bringing in a kid, and the kid tearing up a knee, or something like that and not living up to potential. Evaluation issues is when you bring in a kid and he is either a) not able to play at this level, b) he plays but is not good c) he just doesn't develop.

I see much more of the latter. I don't care if player A was the 57th ranked player in Year Y and player B was the 61st ranked player in Year Z, and player A was an All Conference performer, and player B was a mediocre player most of his career. That is not luck. There is no "slotting" system, and these rankings completely subjective so there is no real true algebraic relationship between a player ranked in one year vs the next.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I am still baffled that we can't bring in more than 1 or 2 McDonald's All-Americans in 20 years. I mean, nice city to play in, nice venue in the Pete and there has been a little success in the NBA like Adams and Blair and Gray.

Look I get that Taylor and Khem didn't work out but c'mon, keep getting a few and I'm sure we'll see some success.

I'm a top 20 kid from Philly I'd like you to sell me on why I'd play at Pitt and not Duke ,UNC, Kentuckey ,Nova. Give me the recruiting rap to make that happen.
Ps : this could be a job interview

 

[bobfree]

I'm a top 20 kid from Philly I'd like you to sell me on why I'd play at Pitt and not Duke ,UNC, Kentuckey ,Nova. Give me the recruiting rap to make that happen.
Ps : this could be a job interview

I'd call pat chambers because he was able to do it.

 

[KiwiJeff]

I'd call pat chambers because he was able to do it.

Poker was asking why we can't get more than one every once in awhile. You are saying Chambers has done that? Maybe he has, I don't follow PSU hoops.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I don't know. A former coach when asked if Jamie has changed recruiting targets he said he is looking for more skilled guys who can score. So in his estimation, we have changed somewhat.

Luck is bringing in a kid, and the kid tearing up a knee, or something like that and not living up to potential. Evaluation issues is when you bring in a kid and he is either a) not able to play at this level, b) he plays but is not good c) he just doesn't develop.

I see much more of the latter. I don't care if player A was the 57th ranked player in Year Y and player B was the 61st ranked player in Year Z, and player A was an All Conference performer, and player B was a mediocre player most of his career. That is not luck. There is no "slotting" system, and these rankings completely subjective so there is no real true algebraic relationship between a player ranked in one year vs the next.

I am saying that you cant accurately project what these kids are going to be 2-4 years later. They aren't "sure things." Jamie's eye for talent didnt diminish. You think he projected Gilbert to be a 1 PPG scorer in the MAAC. No, he saw him as the next McGhee. Its just that most of our last 20 recruits havent ended up being very good. That is bad luck.

 

[Cavalier Panther]

I'm a top 20 kid from Philly I'd like you to sell me on why I'd play at Pitt and not Duke ,UNC, Kentuckey ,Nova. Give me the recruiting rap to make that happen.
Ps : this could be a job interview

Agreed. We all love Pitt, but why come to Pitt over Duke, UNC, Kentucky? Further, why go to Pitt over Cinci, WVU, Xavier, Maryland, UVA, NCSU, Ohio State, on and on. There's just so many solid basketball schools fighting over the top 50 kids, I don't understand the mentality that Pitt should "just land" some of these kids. You know other coaches recruit too? You know 60-some schools play in the tournament every year? Pitt isn't a blue blood program, but it's also not head and shoulders above other solid Power 5 programs like the ones I listed above.

There's a lot of variance here. Once you're recruiting a solid 4- star, you have to beat out those good, but not elite, Power 5 programs and it's going to depend on geography, whether the student has a good visit, whether the team wins during that visit, if the friggin' weather is good on that visit, how many favorites their tweets on that visit received and a billion other things. The idea that recruiting is a simple, clean process and we deserve something because we're the University of Pittsburgh ignores all these variables.

 

[Pittx9]

Poker was asking why we can't get more than one every once in awhile. You are saying Chambers has done that? Maybe he has, I don't follow PSU hoops.

Poker was talking about McDonald's All-Americans. bob was just referring to PSU recruiting highly recruited kids out of Philly. Which still, quite frankly he shouldn't be able to do. Pretty mind boggling.

 

[KiwiJeff]

Poker was talking about McDonald's All-Americans. bob was just referring to PSU recruiting highly recruited kids out of Philly. Which still, quite frankly he shouldn't be able to do. Pretty mind boggling.

How many times has he got one, that's the point. Poker was asking for sustained recruiting, not random once in a blue moon. Maybe PSU has been getting one every year, like I said, I don't follow them. ANY school can snag one once in a blue moon. That isn't some amazing trend or anything going on at PSU, at least not that I am aware of. If it is, then we shouldn't be jealous of Chambers, because if he IS getting top 25 players every year, he sucks.

 

[Pittx9]

How many times has he got one, that's the point. Poker was asking for sustained recruiting, not random once in a blue moon. Maybe PSU has been getting one every year, like I said, I don't follow them. ANY school can snag one once in a blue moon. That isn't some amazing trend or anything going on at PSU, at least not that I am aware of. If it is, then we shouldn't be jealous of Chambers, because if he IS getting top 25 players every year, he sucks.

Oh I was just saying PSU is getting good recruits, highly regarded, from Philly. They are not just reeling in All-Americans. But yes, Chambers does suck as a coach.

But with you and Poker on Pitt, I agree. Some more highly regarded guys more consistently would be relieving news. There isn't much to say going against UNC, Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, etc. But Pitt should be able to blow Cincy, Xavier, Ohio State, WVU, and others out of the water in recruiting.

 

[bobfree]

Poker was asking why we can't get more than one every once in awhile. You are saying Chambers has done that? Maybe he has, I don't follow PSU hoops.

I didn't say that. I directly responded to the post I quoted.

 

[TFloss]

I didn't say that. I directly responded to the post I quoted.

But they didn't get any Top 20 kids. Lamar Stevens and Tony Carr are good recruits, but they would be "good" or "solid" if Pitt got them.

 

[KiwiJeff]

I didn't say that. I directly responded to the post I quoted.

I think everything was meant in the context of recruiting overall, but that's fine, not going to go back and forth on it.