Jerry Palm in a sense "exposes" Jamie's early season scheduling argument

[PittPoker]

Article in the Post-Gazette this morning about (what a surprise) Jamie and the yearly criticism about his scheduling.

Here's a little of the article and what Jerry Palm said and I'll link the whole thing

But the reality is, according to CBS Sports RPI and bracketology expert Jerry Palm, the numbers almost are too objective and are not very meaningful this early in the season.

“If someone’s only argument to defend their schedule in December is RPI and strength-of-schedule numbers, then they don’t really have an argument,” Palm said. “The reality is those numbers aren’t terribly meaningful right now. I look at Pitt’s numbers, they are high because they have played nine teams and seven of them have winning records.

“But that is a nine-game sample, and none of those teams have gotten into their conference play yet. Pitt’s non-conference schedule is definitely not going to do them any favors come March unless a few of these teams go on and do really well in their conference.”

Palm said the one thing Pitt fans should understand — and in Dixon’s defense — is Pitt’s schedule isn’t much different than many major-conference teams that rely on doing well in their conferences to put them in the NCAA tournament.

“A lot of teams don’t play road games, so it is not just Pitt,” Palm said. “They want to compile wins at home and maybe play a few neutral-site games and then hope to do well in their conference. Some teams will challenge themselves more than others, but this is how a lot of teams do it.”



Yes it was unfortunate about the Gonzaga game getting cancelled but this is a yearly criticism and I agree with Palm.

The vast majority of our games sucked, the opponents were meh and it showed by the attendance. It's time for Dixon to upgrade this schedule SIGNIFICANTLY in my opinion.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...tt-s-basketball-schedule/stories/201512180155

 

[KiwiJeff]

Yeah, and he also says Pitt's just like every other school that relies on their conference play to get into the tourney and "that a lot of teams do that". So? Did you actually read what you posted?

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Yeah, and he also says Pitt's just like every other school that relies on their conference play to get into the tourney and "that a lot of teams do that". So? Did you actually read what you posted?

No
And isn't it Jerry Palm who has Pitt as a 6 seed right now ?
Interesting that he seems to be able to judge enough from a 9 game sample to determine we are a quality team

 

[KiwiJeff]

No

If the goal is to go to and win the tourney, per poker, then the goal is NOT to play the one of the most difficult OOC in the country. That would be AGAINST the goal of making the tourney in most cases. A team needs to play a few challenging games in OOC, and that's it, if they are Ina major conference. Playing more then that just hurts your chances IMO. Get a good record, and good RPI, make the tourney and get the best seed possible? Isn't that the goal, or has that goal post now shifted too?

I wonder how many teams in the country have even played 7 teams with winning records so far?

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

If the goal is to go to and win the tourney, per poker, then the goal is NOT to play the one of the most difficult OOC in the country. That would be AGAINST the goal of making the tourney in most cases. A team needs to play a few challenging games in OOC, and that's it, if they are Ina major conference. Playing more then that just hurts your chances IMO. Get a good record, and good RPI, make the tourney and get the best seed possible? Isn't that the goal, or has that goal post now shifted too?

I wonder how many teams in the country have even played 7 teams with winning records so far?

Maybe Monmouth ?

 

[KiwiJeff]

Maybe Monmouth ?

Speaking of Monmouth, USC's top 3 games in OOC are Wichita St, Xavier and Monmouth. Enfield exposed!!!!!!!!!!

 

[KiwiJeff]

No
And isn't it Jerry Palm who has Pitt as a 6 seed right now ?
Interesting that he seems to be able to judge enough from a 9 game sample to determine we are a quality team

That what made the article so odd. If Palm truly believed what he wrote, then why rank Pitt so high? You know why. Because there are SOOOOOO many teams who do the same thing, there would be no teams to put in his Bracketology if the "exposed" teams were removed. It was a silly article.

 

[OriginalEther]

How many of these teams with good records would we expect to collapse once conference play starts?
His point is only valid if teams like 8-1 Duquesne ends up 5-11 in the Atlantic 10.

 

[KiwiJeff]

How many of these teams with good records would we expect to collapse once conference play starts?
His point is only valid if teams like 8-1 Duquesne ends up 5-11 in the Atlantic 10.

It's actually smart strategy to schedule good mid major teams that will go far in their own conference. Small chance they will beat you, high chance they elevate your RPI. Palm understands that. Our fans don't in general. The OP in particular. Palm wrote RPI is not that important at this point in the season. Well, duhhhhhh. But that's breaking news to poker.

 

[NTOP]

Yeah, and he also says Pitt's just like every other school that relies on their conference play to get into the tourney and "that a lot of teams do that". So? Did you actually read what you posted?

He only posted what he agrees with....LOL.

 

[OriginalEther]

It's actually smart strategy to schedule good mid major teams that will go far in their own conference. Small chance they will beat you, high chance they elevate your RPI. Palm understands that. Our fans don't in general. The OP in particular. Palm wrote RPI is not that important at this point in the season. Well, duhhhhhh. But that's breaking news to poker.

Years ago, I think 2005, pitt got bashed for noncon sos. But someone figured out if Pitt replaced two scribe, their SOS would have been #2. But it wasn't replace the scrubs with Kansas or duke. It was replace them with Niagra and Delaware St, two midmajors that won their conferences.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

My thoughts on the early season OOC schedule, is I would like it to include at least one more power team......just for my pure enjoyment and entertainment value. That's it.

 

[wbrpanther]

Yeah, and he also says Pitt's just like every other school that relies on their conference play to get into the tourney and "that a lot of teams do that". So? Did you actually read what you posted?

evidently beside the point.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I know everyone else does it ,but I feel the real disservice is to the season ticket holders everywhere. Now some people will go see Pitt ( or their team ) play anyone ,but as you can see at the Pete it's not the majority of season ticket holders. A lot of the fans attending these games are there because the ticket owner found someone who would take the tickets for free. Three or four tuneup games is enough just imagine how much more enjoyable the season would be if Pitt played the likes of OSU , CONN, KY etc . If all the teams did this then everyone's record would be way more representative of their ability. In a weak conference prove yourself in your non conference schedule or if your in a tough conference and you pounded all your non conference opponents there's a measuring stick. Pipe dream absolutely ,but wouldn't it be nice. It would be detrimental to the schools getting paid to get clobbered. There's a lot of competition for your money and time and without a quality opponent the empty blue seats are winning.

 

[Swervin27]

too much smoke on this topic to discount it. Now, even the AD is discussing it.. Dixon needs to step it up, this "preseason" mentality is a joke.. Barnes is on it and it will be addressed.. . Only die hard apologists can defend this silliness..

 

[76Stingray]

Why doesn't anyone play a true home and away series OOC? Playing someone like UCLA home and away in the same season would help both teams in the RPI category and would be a lot of fun. The neutral site venues are generally pretty lame.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I know everyone else does it ,but I feel the real disservice is to the season ticket holders everywhere. Now some people will go see Pitt ( or their team ) play anyone ,but as you can see at the Pete it's not the majority of season ticket holders. A lot of the fans attending these games are there because the ticket owner found someone who would take the tickets for free. Three or four tuneup games is enough just imagine how much more enjoyable the season would be if Pitt played the likes of OSU , CONN, KY etc . If all the teams did this then everyone's record would be way more representative of their ability. In a weak conference prove yourself in your non conference schedule or if your in a tough conference and you pounded all your non conference opponents there's a measuring stick. Pipe dream absolutely ,but wouldn't it be nice. It would be detrimental to the schools getting paid to get clobbered. There's a lot of competition for your money and time and without a quality opponent the empty blue seats are winning.

Coaches would despise it but I think the P5 or P10 (including BE, A10, American, MWC, WCC) should agree to only play each other. Everybody would have more losses but so what. A 17-14 team would make the NCAAT.

An ACC team's OOC could look like:

4 exempt games
Dayton
Temple
Seton Hall
Indiana
Mississippi State
Oklahoma State
Oregon
UNLV
BYU

Say half those games at home. I am sure the value of a season ticket package (any team's season ticket package) would go up by dumping nonname opponents for brand names......and if everyone does it, there is no downside. You'll lose 3, 4, 5 games. So will the others you are competing with.

Regular season tv ratings and attendance is a problem everywhere. I wished the power teams would be more creative in forming better schedules.

 

[Swervin27]

76 stingray nailed it, this is such an easy thing to fix.. outside of holiday tournaments and games on naval aircraft carriers, good pre-conference games rarely exist.. Why not a nice home and home? It all comes from coaches not wanting to leave their home til conference.. They, like Dixon, play that rpi game and want the 12 warmup games because God forbid, their conference schedule is so challenging. From a fans standpoint, it's mind boggling. A loss or 3 in November or December means nothing.. You play 16 or 18 conference games, plenty of time to climb the ranking ladders or build your resume.. Just coaches wanting and getting their way.. Plain and simple.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

76 stingray nailed it, this is such an easy thing to fix.. outside of holiday tournaments and games on naval aircraft carriers, good pre-conference games rarely exist.. Why not a nice home and home? It all comes from coaches not wanting to leave their home til conference.. They, like Dixon, play that rpi game and want the 12 warmup games because God forbid, their conference schedule is so challenging. From a fans standpoint, it's mind boggling. A loss or 3 in November or December means nothing.. You play 16 or 18 conference games, plenty of time to climb the ranking ladders or build your resume.. Just coaches wanting and getting their way.. Plain and simple.

Almost all major programs play at least 1 high level home and home. Duke, Pitt, and ND are the only ACC programs that do not. The myth that most teams dont is just that. Most teams do. I estimate about 30-40% of teams play 2 such games.

 

[lunzhegu]

Dixon says he looks for most OOC opponents to be those he thinks will be strong in their conference, to the limited extent he can project that criterion. The goal is to prepare his team to win the conference. Dixon's so-called gaming the RPI shows that he does a pretty good job scheduling the OOC. The RPI has its limitations but it also has its reality.

Unlike those who project our future losses, whether on message boards or ranking sites or betting sites, Dixon and his staff are thinking about how they are going to beat Duke, Louisville, North Carolina, Miami, Notre Dame, and the rest of our conference opponents. That is how they won their championships in the Big East. They have a very different mindset from the fans and the media. They go into those games expecting to win.

They want to challenge the team in the OOC, but they are not thinking about a schedule so tough that they will not have a chance to develop all their players as well as work through their rotation options, their defensive execution, and their offensive sets. They work on their weaknesses; they work on their strengths; they work on building confidence; they work on eliminating mistakes. One cannot expect to go through a conference like the ACC without doing that type of preparation.

 

[NTOP]

too much smoke on this topic to discount it. Now, even the AD is discussing it.. Dixon needs to step it up, this "preseason" mentality is a joke.. Barnes is on it and it will be addressed.. . Only die hard apologists can defend this silliness..

Or folks who don't look at other teams' schedules. We are NOT alone.

 

[NTOP]

Almost all major programs play at least 1 high level home and home. Duke, Pitt, and ND are the only ACC programs that do not. The myth that most teams dont is just that. Most teams do. I estimate about 30-40% of teams play 2 such games.

Which is it?? The "most teams"??? Or your 30-40% proclamation??? Can't be both of those.

 

[Swervin27]

Or folks who don't look at other teams' schedules. We are NOT alone.

I agree, it's not just a Dixon/Pitt thing. Boheim didn't leave the state of NY before January in about 2 decades. Coaches need to relax a bit and grow a pair...

 

[Hero of the Oppressed]

Palm Shmalm....................Jerry versus Lunardi in a made for televison event...................."Predicting Tournament Seeds in December by a couple of big ass losers"

 

[NTOP]

I agree, it's not just a Dixon/Pitt thing. Boheim didn't leave the state of NY before January in about 2 decades. Coaches need to relax a bit and grow a pair...

I'd hope so, too.....season tix since 1982. But the selection committee stuff dictates the process. I'd love to see some of our old BE rivals + some Big10 dummies (No, not psu). Not sure Barnes can do much, though. wvu sux.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Which is it?? The "most teams"??? Or your 30-40% proclamation??? Can't be both of those.

Reading comprehension is key. Most teams play 1. 30-40% of teams play 2.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

What you always hear is that we need these many home games to support the program. I hate to use them but look at PSU football they get 85-90,000 fans ( whatever # ) paying fans ,they fill up the hotels,restaurants and bars and flood the town with money . I understand this ,but let's talk Pitt bb ,they sell 8000 tickets not counting students of which 3-4000 show up. Where's the money? Wouldn't it be better to bring in teams that pack the place? Sell parking ,food ,tee shirts ,programs ,help local bars and restaurants ? Maybe the problem could be with Pitt , in a home and home series we all crave is that their not that attractive opponent to fill up the opposing teams arena. (except WVU ) . Whose dying to play Pitt ?