Jeter

[Zaratoughda]

I have been thinking about this for a bit (yeah, I can hear the groans already) and... I really think Dixon has got to get Sheldon Jeter into the starting lineup.

The thing is... Sheldon was a good player for us last year... and in Dixon's words... had 'separated himself' from the rest of the players as far as what he was bringing in training camp.

Also, Sheldon seemed to play better the more minutes he got... oftentimes bringing it in the second half and down the stretch. And the thing is, from what I saw of Sheldon last year, he made the plays that made the difference between winning and losing.

Another thing... Jeter goes good with Artis... and you can play Jeter at PF and Artis at SF... and have them that way on D but then swap them on O... allowing both of them to play the positions they played last year... on O.

So, what I would do... start Young at C... along with Jeter at PF and Artis at SF... then sit Young down early and bring in ANO (at C). Then, when it came time to spell Jeter (and Artis), you would bring MY in at PF.

Right now... despite what Dixon has said about Jeter... it is really up in the air as to where he is gonna get playing time. Right now he is slotted in the PF slot spelling Young... but unless they play MY some at C, or play Jeter some at SF, there is not starter minutes for Jeter and IMO, we need to get him those minutes. And in any case, it is not well defined right now as to when he comes into the game and how many minutes he can expect to play.

Of course, against Gonzaga, with their extreme bigs, this is all kinda moot. But, after the Gonzaga game, IMO we would be a better team if Jeter is starting.

 

[Scruffy the Panther]

I'd be worried that having both Artis and Jeter on the floor together with Young at center would lead to some pretty poor defense like we saw last season, and not enough offense to offset it. Plus, Jeter had some nice games but has to show he's consistent.

 

[Pitt5593]

I have been thinking about this for a bit (yeah, I can hear the groans already) and... I really think Dixon has got to get Sheldon Jeter into the starting lineup.

The thing is... Sheldon was a good player for us last year... and in Dixon's words... had 'separated himself' from the rest of the players as far as what he was bringing in training camp.

Also, Sheldon seemed to play better the more minutes he got... oftentimes bringing it in the second half and down the stretch. And the thing is, from what I saw of Sheldon last year, he made the plays that made the difference between winning and losing.

Another thing... Jeter goes good with Artis... and you can play Jeter at PF and Artis at SF... and have them that way on D but then swap them on O... allowing both of them to play the positions they played last year... on O.

So, what I would do... start Young at C... along with Jeter at PF and Artis at SF... then sit Young down early and bring in ANO (at C). Then, when it came time to spell Jeter (and Artis), you would bring MY in at PF.

Right now... despite what Dixon has said about Jeter... it is really up in the air as to where he is gonna get playing time. Right now he is slotted in the PF slot spelling Young... but unless they play MY some at C, or play Jeter some at SF, there is not starter minutes for Jeter and IMO, we need to get him those minutes. And in any case, it is not well defined right now as to when he comes into the game and how many minutes he can expect to play.

Of course, against Gonzaga, with their extreme bigs, this is all kinda moot. But, after the Gonzaga game, IMO we would be a better team if Jeter is starting.

Didn't we learn anything from last year????

 

[Chescat]

Zara, I gotta give you credit....you just won't let this Artis at PF belief of yours go, (with more minutes for
Young at Center). You've been pushing this notion for months. Personally, I don't think it's a bad notion
at all, especially the way you described Jeter's value and need to be on the floor. The biggest problem with
this is.... Jamie will look foolish after bringing in three Bigs if he goes with your scenario. On the other hand,
if his plan with the three Bigs fails, he may be forced to go with what you've been suggesting all along. Now,
with that said, I wouldn't hold my breath expecting Jamie to back off his master plan. IMO I think Jamie will stick with his transfer plan for center, with limited minutes for Young at C and most of his minutes at PF. Of course that leaves Artis mostly at SF.
Something you might want to consider....coaches at this level talk with players and their future potential as pros.
If Artis ever has a shot at the pros, Jamie will and should do what he can to get him ready. Obviously if Artis
has any pro aspirations, it HAS to be as a SF. Conversely, if he's being helpful to Young, his future is definitely
not as a Center, but as a PF. Believe me, this has ramifications for future recruits too. Coaches have to be able
to convince recruits of their ability to get their players ready for the future.

 

[Zaratoughda]

I was just trying to see where we might get some offense.

Last year, before Artis took off.... we were 'Mike Young and not much else' on offense.... and were overall equivalent to one of the bottom dweller ACC teams... and played like that in our first couple of ACC games. Then Artis took off, averaging over 20 PPG in the meat of the ACC schedule... and then Jeter contributed on top of that and... Jones had some good games before we just lost it completely in our last 5 games.

I'm looking at the Gonzaga game and the first thing is keeping their bigs from dominating... but then the second thing is we have to put the ball in the hoop... and Smith is a good 3 ball shooter... well he WAS last year but hasn't shown it so far this year... but he is not a big time scorer. Jones, is erratic. And as far as our new bigs are concerned, they are just support scorers.

So, where are we gonna get our scoring from?

IMO, what you need is one or more players really bringing it and the others... bring their support scoring.

But, if we don't have anyone really bringing it.... we will be in trouble. Yeah, I can just see the ball being passed around the perimeter until... gee wiz.. shot clock violation.

Mike Young is a good scorer but I have never seen him bring it like Artis did last year. Passed out MY as our leading scorer even though Jamel only averaged around 6 PPG in the first half of last year's schedule.

The thing is... if you play Jeter and Artis at the same time... they are interchangeable. In other words, if Jamel is going good at SF offensively then he can keep playing there as Jeter can play PF offensively.

I actually think Dixon is PLANNING on doing this... playing both of those two at the same time. Thus the only thing I am saying, is I think you need these two in the starting lineup. As I see it... Artis and Jeter are our two 'go-to' scorers.

The OTHER thing... I would rather Jeter was starting rather than playing unknown minutes off the bench.

Yeah, this is not the starting lineup that Dixon is planning but... if we get bounced by the Zags, maybe he will consider it.

Of course, I would much rather we come away with a W out of Okinawa. But to do that we might need Robinson and, say, Slim, to carry the load offensively.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

ANO's defense and rebounding are invaluable. Jeter and Artis cant defend. Tough to have them both on the floor at the same time, especially with an undersized center in Young.

 

[Pitt20]

I personally think Jeter will be the key to the season. I completely agree with everything Zaratoughda has said.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Why not wait and actually see how they play before worrying about players minutes. Remember we don't get to see them practice and believe it or not I think JD has a better insight .

 

[Zaratoughda]

I am starting to think... maybe the best way to do this would be go with the starting lineup he has now (ANO, Young and Artis frontcourt), but sit MY down early and bring Jeter in then. Just give MY enough time to get warmed up and then bring in Jeter, at PF.

IMO, MY can play better than he has.. and having him being the one that gets sat down early... will tick him off... and if he gets ticked off he is big danger to the other team when he comes back.

You bring him back at C, spelling ANO, for a while... then swing him back to PF when Jeter gets spelled. You can do this at any time but I would want to keep ANO in there for a while for D and to wear the other team down a bit.

For Jeter... IMO the important thing is to get him starter minutes... or close to it... and in a regular fashion. When Young comes back in he comes in at C.... you give Jeter a full shift and this is a regular occurrence. After you spell him, you would want to bring him in for another full shift along with Artis at the same time.

Yeah, we will have to so to what degree Jeter has separated himself from the other players.... and if he is able to sustain it. But he needs the regular minutes to show this. Bouncing him around is not the right thing with Sheldon.

 

[Pittx9]

I think the key is Jamie has a deeper bench this year than last, so we should use it. Just because Jeter may not be in the starting lineup is no reason for him not to still play 15-20 mpg. I think last year he was best as a spark off the bench, so I think a 6th man role would fit him well. I wouldn't be against him being in the starting lineup, but Mike Young is not going to be the starting center this year, that is clear. So he's at the 4, Artis at the 3, pretty much leaves Jeter to come off the bench. As long as he still gets significant PT, he will make his presence on this team felt. He's a good basketball player all-around.

 

[Chescat]

Zara, every scenario that you present, no matter how you work and re work it centers on one thing only....
and that one thing is to have Artis at PF. I gave some reasons above, why IMO Jamie will play him at
SF:
1. He recruited three Bigs to play Center.
2. He wants Young at PF (his natural position).
3. Artis as you have pointed out, played better at PF, and his D was horrible at SF. BUT, for the sake of
points 1 and 2 above ...he'll be at SF.
4. Jeter, has you have also pointed out, is better at PF and his D at SF may actually be worse than Artis'.
I agree with you that Jeter has to see the floor more this year, but IMO it has to be at PF when Young
takes a breather. I know, I know, you would move Young to center and bring Artis to PF. It may happen,
but I doubt it (see #1 above).
5. And as I have previously mentioned, I truly believe that Dixon has promised Young to play his natural
position, PF. I'm sure Young wants to go pro someday, and again IMO, Jamie has promised him that
he'd do everything he could to get Center help this and next year. Same goes for Artis incidentally....his
future is at SF. Don't undersell this last point.....D1 coaches have to be able to say to recruits and their
handlers that they will do whatever they can to help their future aspirations. The "better: players want to
know what coach and program will get then to the next level. Not playing players in their natural
position, i.e. Young at Center is suicidal for a coach when it comes to recruiting.
I guess we will start to see how this plays out in the next few weeks,

 

[Zaratoughda]

Zara, every scenario that you present, no matter how you work and re work it centers on one thing only....
and that one thing is to have Artis at PF. I gave some reasons above, why IMO Jamie will play him at
SF:
1. He recruited three Bigs to play Center.
2. He wants Young at PF (his natural position).
3. Artis as you have pointed out, played better at PF, and his D was horrible at SF. BUT, for the sake of
points 1 and 2 above ...he'll be at SF.
4. Jeter, has you have also pointed out, is better at PF and his D at SF may actually be worse than Artis'.
I agree with you that Jeter has to see the floor more this year, but IMO it has to be at PF when Young
takes a breather. I know, I know, you would move Young to center and bring Artis to PF. It may happen,
but I doubt it (see #1 above).
5. And as I have previously mentioned, I truly believe that Dixon has promised Young to play his natural
position, PF. I'm sure Young wants to go pro someday, and again IMO, Jamie has promised him that
he'd do everything he could to get Center help this and next year. Same goes for Artis incidentally....his
future is at SF. Don't undersell this last point.....D1 coaches have to be able to say to recruits and their
handlers that they will do whatever they can to help their future aspirations. The "better: players want to
know what coach and program will get then to the next level. Not playing players in their natural
position, i.e. Young at Center is suicidal for a coach when it comes to recruiting.
I guess we will start to see how this plays out in the next few weeks,

Like I said in one of my posts... if you play Artis and Jeter together.... you can have either of them play either position on offense (I would just play Artis at SF on defense and Jeter at PF. Artis is undersized for PF and Jeter seems to have problems on the perimeter). If Artis is doing good at SF then let him continue to play there... Jeter can bring his game at PF. But, if that is not working... swap them on O and.... then you got Artis running through the lane, getting open and, catch and shoot which he did so well last year.

It's good to have options in what you can do... you can adjust what you are doing based on what the other team is doing, who is hot, etc.

 

[Zaratoughda]

Zara, every scenario that you present, no matter how you work and re work it centers on one thing only....
and that one thing is to have Artis at PF. I gave some reasons above, why IMO Jamie will play him at
SF:
1. He recruited three Bigs to play Center.
2. He wants Young at PF (his natural position).
3. Artis as you have pointed out, played better at PF, and his D was horrible at SF. BUT, for the sake of
points 1 and 2 above ...he'll be at SF.
4. Jeter, has you have also pointed out, is better at PF and his D at SF may actually be worse than Artis'.
I agree with you that Jeter has to see the floor more this year, but IMO it has to be at PF when Young
takes a breather. I know, I know, you would move Young to center and bring Artis to PF. It may happen,
but I doubt it (see #1 above).
5. And as I have previously mentioned, I truly believe that Dixon has promised Young to play his natural
position, PF. I'm sure Young wants to go pro someday, and again IMO, Jamie has promised him that
he'd do everything he could to get Center help this and next year. Same goes for Artis incidentally....his
future is at SF. Don't undersell this last point.....D1 coaches have to be able to say to recruits and their
handlers that they will do whatever they can to help their future aspirations. The "better: players want to
know what coach and program will get then to the next level. Not playing players in their natural
position, i.e. Young at Center is suicidal for a coach when it comes to recruiting.
I guess we will start to see how this plays out in the next few weeks,

Oh, Chescat... the OTHER thing here... is when asked about it recently, Dixon has said he expects to play Young at BOTH PF and C.

 

[Chescat]

Good Points on your last two posts,. If Young does play Center, it's because the experiment of three transfers (all BIGS),didn't work out. His real challenge is giving the most minutes to his best players. Those players
IMO are Young, Artis, Robinson, and Jeter. Three of them are BIGS. Young can only play PF; Artis and
Jeter can also play PF, but somehow they're also gonna have to succeed at SF or their minutes
will be reduced. This will be interesting.

 

[raleighpanther]

Ok, here is what I know about Pitt basketball under Dixon (/ Howland):

Our recruiting is, and has mostly been, at a modest level.
Despite that Pitt has been quite successful.
That success was predicated on playing older, stronger players who played great defense and out-rebounded their opponents.

Pitt was not successful last year. Defense was weak; we were undersized up front, and we got out-rebounded in about 2/3rds of our ACC games last year.

Dixon knows that and has stated that both must improve, and stressed the importance of improving both this season. He recruited to that end in the off-season, and has stressed it in practice. Artis didn't start the exhibition game due to insufficient defense in practice.

Any scenarios for player lineups this year have to start with this in mind.
In this light, I really doubt that we will ever see a lineup with Young, Jeter, and Artis in together in our front court, unless we are playing St. Francis.

 

[Zaratoughda]

Chescat.... right now Dixon's plan is to play Young at C some of his minutes. How much right now is unknown.

As far as Jeter is concerned.... Dixon's comment is that he is playing 'mostly' PF now.

Uh, I can see playing Jeter some at SF.... to get him starter minutes.... but I would rather play Artis and Jeter at the same time.

Also, at C we got ANO but.... after that you got Maia... who is not up to speed yet... and may be overweight.... and Luther... who at 215 will get eaten alive by true sized Cs (like, Karnowski and Edwards). So, we don't have much at C right now other than ANO and.... Young.

Meanwhile, at SF, besides Artis we got Jones and Slim... both of whom have more potential than Luther or Maia. Yeah, you could play them at SG, but we got Smith and, probably once Wilson gets back into the swing of things, Milligan.

Against Gonzaga... IMO everything is up in the air due to their profound bigs. But, after that, in the 4 games before Purdue, we should be seeing the rotation shaping up.

 

[heybandguy]

Zara & Chescat - you both make really good cases.
I think this kind of debate is going to stretch long into the season - I still think there are too many unknowns about the Ano & Maia (once he is ready). If Wilson, CJ & Sterling Smith are really hot and contributing, where does that put Jones? If he falls into the mix at SF rather than SG, then you have to manage another body that will vie for minutes. Jeter will earn plenty of minutes on his own, but his impact will not necessarily show up in the box score all the time. I want to see MY at C as little as possible, so I am hopeful that the JD's big recruiting pans out. The nice part about this roster is the depth and the possibility for combinations to be used to get the win. The only bad part is for the PantherLair servers who have to store all these threads as rotations are debated!