Has looked 70+ years old for at least the last 40 years. It's actually kind of amazing.
Jim Leyland...
- Thread starter TheWerewolfFromTwilight
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He's like a vampire who got bit at the age of 72. There was a thing on him during the rain delay yesterday, so I randomly looked up his age. 79 isn't young, per se, but I expected him to be more like 87. He was way too young, when he was here, to look as old as he did. And now he doesn't look THAT old, so it's like he's been hovering around the same level for four decades.
You ever see those social media posts showing people who we thought were old but really weren’t…and in many cases younger than some of us now? In addition to Leyland, I’ll add Archie Bunker and Alice from the Brady Bunch. Plenty of great example ls out there.
In snaphook's defense, Leyland did leave a Springsteen concert early in 2014.
Now, in Jim's defense, that was not a setlist for casual fans. There were 6 covers played and 5 songs played that did not make albums. I could see a casual fan sitting there and thinking, "wtf?"
When taking everything into consideration, I cannot label Jim a piece of sh*t. I'll go as far as a "piece of work."
A piece of work who has been 72 years old for 40 years.
I think Bonds adores Jim Leyland, which maybe could lead one to think supports Leyland’s scumbagery. Lol.
As always he was all class and graciousness in that nice ceremony the Tigers had for him at Comerica Park yesterday. He’s one of those guys who embodies the golden age of baseball. Not many of them left.
When he was managing the Tigers Leyland was a regular at a restaurant in the suburban Detroit city I live in. He was always open, friendly and engaging. He is beloved here. The Tigers went over a cliff shortly after he retired and have never recovered.
Snapdick aka Titleman, on the other hand, always lives down to expectations.
When he was managing the Tigers Leyland was a regular at a restaurant in the suburban Detroit city I live in. He was always open, friendly and engaging. He is beloved here. The Tigers went over a cliff shortly after he retired and have never recovered.
Snapdick aka Titleman, on the other hand, always lives down to expectations.
He saw where things were going and ran away as fast as he could.
Just like he did in Pittsburgh, and in Miami, and in Colorado.
Which was certainly his prerogative. But it doesn't make him some sort of hero either.
Hardly true of his Tigers stint. He retired after a crushing pennant loss to the Red Sox and went into the Tigers front office. The Tigers then made the catastrophic mistake of handing the keys to the fully gassed Ferrari to a guy who’s only prior managerial experience was one season with the Israeli national team in the world baseball classic. Mind bogglingly terrible move. Brad Ausmus drove that Ferrari straight over a cliff, Dave Dombrowski left, and the organization imploded.
this is so true. You can add George Jefferson/Sherman Hemsley. I think he was only late 30's? I think James Amos in Good Times was pretty young too. But Archie & Edith are the ones that get me. I think Jennifer Aniston is probably older now than Edith was during the show and it is no comparison in looks.
Of course, Hollywood does wonders with makeup too. Marlon Brando wasn't much older than James Caan and Al Pacino in the Godfather. But the makeup room worked magic there.
They lost their .819 OPS first baseman and replaced him with a .700 OPS rookie third baseman. They lost their .795 OPS second baseman and replaced him with a .727 OPS second baseman. They lost one of their best starting pitchers and tried to replace him with a guy who only pitched in relief the year before. Their fans might not have thought so, but it was pretty clear they were in for a step back no matter who the manager was.
But yeah, even with all that the stupid managerial change they made dropped their win total by three whole wins, and dropped them in the standings by, well, it didn't actually drop them in the standings at all.
Can't blame him for leaving Pittsburgh. Thought he had commitments from ownership and of course that didn't pan out.
As I said, it was certainly his prerogative to leave all those places. After he became an established manager he had no interest at all in a rebuild. That's why after the Marlins won the world series and did what they do, he couldn't find the door fast enough. And then he went to Colorado, who was supposed to be a young team on the rise, and he found out that in reality they were no such thing, and so he left there after one season.
We all saw here how hard he took losses. After he got to a certain point in his career he decided that he wasn't going to manage a building team any more, he only wanted to manage good teams, teams that were ready to win. He's not the first manager to get to a point like that in his career, and he surely won't be the last.
The 2014 Tigers were loaded by any measure. The best starting pitching rotation since the old Braves glory days added David Price to the mix. Prince Fielder underperformed at 1B the entire time he was in Detroit and Tigers fans were happy to see him get the boot and Miggy, who was never a competent 3rd baseman in the field, replace him at 1st. Ian Kinsler replaced Omar Infante at 2B and nearly doubled Infante’s HR and RBI totals. In 2013 they had the RSox on the ropes in the ALCS. In 2014 they lost their first playoff series in 3 straight.
Jim Leyland made the MLB HOF on his first ballot. He won a World Series, took his teams to 3 of them, and won pennants in both leagues.
Ausmus, well, he didn’t. He took the Tigers from 1st to worst in the AL Central in short order. After Detroit fired him, the Angels hired him. And thought so highly of his work they fired him after one season. He has not managed since.
So you may have your own personal reasons for not liking Jim Leyland, but the rest of the objective baseball world seems to believe he was pretty F’in good. I can tell you won’t find anyone in Detroit that was glad he retired when he did. The glory days of the Pirates and Tigers were all on his watch. I guess he just got lucky with his personnel, right?
He had that personnel because of the general managers that he worked for. You understand that he didn't really have anything to do with the personnel at any of the places that he managed, right? I mean that's not some sort of shot, that's the way it is and has been in every organization for a long time.
And Tiger fans might have been happy to be rid of Fielder, but Fielder was a hell of a lot better then than the player that essentially replaced him (a rookie Nick Castellano). And they might have been happy to replace Infante with Kinsler because Kinsler hit more home runs, but that isn't a sign that Kinsler was better, that's a sign that sometimes fans are dumb.
Infante in 2013, .318/.345/.450, Kinsler in 2014, .275/.307/.420. One of those is better than the other, and it's not hard to figure out which. Hell, even with all of those extra home runs Infante still had a better slugging percentage than Kinsler. If the Tiger fans liked Kinsler better because he was a better hitter then Tiger fans are fools.
And they didn't add David Price to the mix until the trade deadline. He wasn't on the team at the beginning of the year. No Tiger fans went into that season thinking about how much better David Price was going to make them, because David Price threw his first 170 innings that year for Tampa. The plan to replace Doug Fister that season was Drew Smyly, who was a reliever the year before, literally zero starts. He was one of the guys they traded to Tampa at the deadline to get Price.
He had that personnel because of the general managers that he worked for. You understand that he didn't really have anything to do with the personnel at any of the places that he managed, right? I mean that's not some sort of shot, that's the way it is and has been in every organization for a long time.
Of course I understand that. I'm a lifelong baseball guy, and 20 year Tigers season ticket holder. Dave Dombrowski built the Tigers, hired Leyland, and inexplicably hired Brad Ausmus when Leyland retired. You are more or less attributing Leyland's success versus Brad Ausmus's success to Leyland having the benefit of a better roster. To the extent that 2013 roster was better than the 2014 roster, and it was not, it was only marginally better. Prince Fielder was brought in to hit home runs --he was a complete dud in his Tigers tenure and had his lowest HR and RBI totals of his career in his 2 years in Detroit. The Tigers added JD Martinez to their linuep in 2014. Ian Kinsler was at worst a wash with Infante. The starting pitching both seasons was stellar. The bullpen was meh as it had been throughout the Tigers run of excellence from 2006 to 2013. And what about that 2006 team of no-names Leyland took to the WS? On paper that team couldn't hold the jock or either the 2013 or 2014 team. Does he get any credit from you for that?
Leyland did a great job in Detroit and he did it with class, grace and genuine affection and respect for the organization, the players, the owner, the fans, and the town. I don't think it was any accident that the Pirates were at their best under him, as were the Tigers. You may find 1000 ways to disagree with that, but none of them changes the undeniable fact that the best stretch of baseball either of those teams have had in past 30 years were with Leyland managing.
Of course I understand that. I'm a lifelong baseball guy, and 20 year Tigers season ticket holder. Dave Dombrowski built the Tigers, hired Leyland, and inexplicably hired Brad Ausmus when Leyland retired. You are more or less attributing Leyland's success versus Brad Ausmus's success to Leyland having the benefit of a better roster. To the extent that 2013 roster was better than the 2014 roster, and it was not, it was only marginally better. Prince Fielder was brought in to hit home runs --he was a complete dud in his Tigers tenure and had his lowest HR and RBI totals of his career in his 2 years in Detroit. The Tigers added JD Martinez to their linuep in 2014. Ian Kinsler was at worst a wash with Infante. The starting pitching both seasons was stellar. The bullpen was meh as it had been throughout the Tigers run of excellence from 2006 to 2013. And what about that 2006 team of no-names Leyland took to the WS? On paper that team couldn't hold the jock or either the 2013 or 2014 team. Does he get any credit from you for that?
Leyland did a great job in Detroit and he did it with class, grace and genuine affection and respect for the organization, the players, the owner, the fans, and the town. I don't think it was any accident that the Pirates were at their best under him, as were the Tigers. You may find 1000 ways to disagree with that, but none of them changes the undeniable fact that the best stretch of baseball either of those teams have had in past 30 years were with Leyland managing.
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