Pitt drops for 4th year in a row in US News rankings

[CrazyPaco]

Interestingly as you say....."Individual rankings were not broken down above #50" 24 years ago when Pitt was in the 52 - 116 group. US News hasn't done much to refine things 24 years later. Here are the rankings now above #50. For schools rated 51 to 70 (Pitt's current ranking).....

• 3 schools tied at 51
• 4 schools tied at 54
• 5 schools tied at 58
• 7 schools tied at 63
• 3 schools tied at 70 (one of which is Pitt)

So there we have it....23 schools bunched into 5 rankings. If we can leapfrog the 7 schools grouped at 63....we come in at 58 with 5 other schools....and maybe none of us are wringing our hands about Pitt's rating. But I get it.....just like NIL in sports....the US News rankings are what we have to deal with. Incidentally....that group of 7 includes Penn State, Michigan State, Tulane, and Miami....good schools but I'll keep my degree from Pitt....thank you very much! One last thing....I did have one WTF moment at looking at these rankings....University of Georgia at 46 🤣. That's all.

Texas and UF at #30...Rutgers...yes Rutgers which recently has been in the 60s and 70s...at #41..uh, no. Wake has dropped down to #46 ...usually in the top 30.

Texas, Florida, California, Virginia, Georgia: large growing states, often with pre-paid tuition programs and substantially more affordable in-state tuition where there aren't significant privates to draw top in-state students. These state flagship schools are top or near drop draws for their in-state students and comparative really good values. These states have a huge advantage over schools in PA. Pitt is in danger of continuing to be passed by other schools from such states, like it has been passed by Texas A&M, Virginia Tech, and FSU, if it doesn't work to address these rankings.

 

[AllegeneeGenacGenac]

I think PA is way stronger. The poster listed:
PENN,
Carnegie Mellon
Drexel
Villanova
Dickinson
Gettysburg
Bucknell
Scranton (Scranton, really?)

But also:
Swarthmore
Lehigh
Lafayette
Bryn Mawr is one of the Seven Sisters colleges (think Wellsley, Vassar, Smith etc..)
Even Allegheny and W&J

Right, it's not even close. UVA and W&M are great public schools. VT is also good.

After that, you have a bunch of publics that are basically party schools or commuter schools and a bunch of small private schools that serve no real purpose today. Basically the same as the private schools in PA, after you remove all the ones on the list above (other than Scranton of course, and probably Gettysburg and Dickinson).

North Carolina is about the same, with a weaker public system than VA overall.

 

[accindc]

Right, it's not even close. UVA and W&M are great public schools. VT is also good.

After that, you have a bunch of publics that are basically party schools or commuter schools and a bunch of small private schools that serve no real purpose today. Basically the same as the private schools in PA, after you remove all the ones on the list above (other than Scranton of course, and probably Gettysburg and Dickinson).

North Carolina is about the same, with a weaker public system than VA overall.

So Washington & Lee and Richmond are irrelevant? Interesting...

 

[CrazyPaco]

In the meaningless stats department, but sure to been as a bragging point, as far as average conference ranking, the ACC maintains its long-standing place at the top.

Average US News member ranking among Power 4 conferences:
ACC: 51.6
Big Ten: 53.9
SEC: 114.2
B12: 140.9

 

[vantheman1976]

Texas and UF at #30...Rutgers...yes Rutgers which recently has been in the 60s and 70s...at #41..uh, no. Wake has dropped down to #46 ...usually in the top 30.

Texas, Florida, California, Virginia, Georgia: large growing states, often with pre-paid tuition programs and substantially more affordable in-state tuition where there aren't significant privates to draw top in-state students. These state flagship schools are top or near drop draws for their in-state students and comparative really good values. These states have a huge advantage over schools in PA. Pitt is in danger of continuing to be passed by other schools from such states, like it has been passed by Texas A&M, Virginia Tech, and FSU, if it doesn't work to address these rankings.

OK....that helps explain the low rating of LSU (179) and the University of Mississippi (171) and University of Alabama (171) to some extent but wouldn't Arizona State at 121 and the University of Arizona at 109 fit your growing state hypothesis? Also...shouldn't membership in the Association of American Universities have weight in the ratings......been wondering about that?

 

[CrazyPaco]

OK....that helps explain the low rating of LSU (179) and the University of Mississippi (171) and University of Alabama (171) to some extent but wouldn't Arizona State at 121 and the University of Arizona at 109 fit your growing state hypothesis? Also...shouldn't membership in the Association of American Universities have weight in the ratings......been wondering about that?

The AAU has zero to do with any rankings. Zero.

ASU is a huge...giant...diploma mill when it comes to undergrad enrollment. It is the largest school in the country. When you are that large, I don't know how much quality control goes on. But I haven't looked into their stats to know why they are where they are. They've haven't really moved a ton. I don't know much about Arizona as an institution either. I imagine a lot of top achieving Arizona students look to go to school in CA.

 

[AllegeneeGenacGenac]

So Washington & Lee and Richmond are irrelevant? Interesting...

What about them makes them relevant, let alone competitive with Penn, CMU, Lehigh, and Swarthmore?

They're above average private schools in VA, but perform no meaningful research and have no noteworthy undergraduate or graduate specialties. If both went away tomorrow no one other than the employees, students, alumni, and people in close proximity to the campus would notice, which to be clear is true for all of their many peers (by definition I suppose).

 

[caleco's]

Here is what is out-of-whack for Pitt and this ranking...and always has been.

A list of the top 25 universities (which have undergrad components) in terms of research expenditures with their corresponding US News undergrad rankings in (_):

1. Johns Hopkins (6)
2. Penn (10)
3. Michigan (21)
4. Washington (46)
5. UCLA (15)
6 UCSD (29)
7. Wisconsin (39)
8. Duke (6)
9. Stanford (4)
10. Ohio State (41)
11. UNC (27)
12. Harvard (3)
13. Cornell (11)
14. NYU (30)
15. Pitt (70)
16. Georgia Tech (33)
17. Columbia (13)
18. Maryland (44)
19. Minnesota (54)
20. Yale (5)
21. Texas A&M (51)
22. Vanderbilt (18)
23. Florida (30)
24. Washington U St. Louis (21)
25. USC (27)

Pitt is the only top 25 research university outside the top 54 of US News. By far the largest disparity. You see the same thing with med school rankings. By its research and graduate characteristics, Pitt should be ranked in US News between 40-50. No matter what you think about it, US News is huge for perception and student/parent decision making. Pitt is definitely doing something wrong and has been for a long time. This slide is a trend that Gabel needs to address.

If we would just tarp the upper deck all of this would change

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

If we would just tarp the upper deck all of this would change

So we should tarp the top 10 or 15 floors of the Cathedral?

 

[Pitt_Boss]

In years past, I have worked with a lot of students going through college application and choice. Many students don’t care about academic rankings, they care about cost (mostly), location, major/program, etc.

However for the ones that DO care about academic stature, they would say "I want to go to a 10 school” or a Top 25 or Top 50, 100. The exact number would vary, but when they said that , they ALWAYS meant by the US News ranking. So as Paco said, it doesn’t matter if the methodology is total garbage, it’s the metric that matters.

And worse, the students that do care about rankings are EXACTLY the students you need to be applying/ accepting to support your ranking. So there is a spiral effect as you drop where it becomes harder to get the students you need to move back up.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Aren’t applications at a record high though?

 

[pittchagg]

Aren’t applications at a record high though?

they are, but mostly because kids are applying to more colleges than they used to. Everyone is setting application records.

 

[RaleighPittFan]

So we should tarp the top 10 or 15 floors of the Cathedral?

POTD!

 

[Atlanta Panther]

Interestingly as you say....."Individual rankings were not broken down above #50" 24 years ago when Pitt was in the 52 - 116 group. US News hasn't done much to refine things 24 years later. Here are the rankings now above #50. For schools rated 51 to 70 (Pitt's current ranking).....

• 3 schools tied at 51
• 4 schools tied at 54
• 5 schools tied at 58
• 7 schools tied at 63
• 3 schools tied at 70 (one of which is Pitt)

So there we have it....23 schools bunched into 5 rankings. If we can leapfrog the 7 schools grouped at 63....we come in at 58 with 5 other schools....and maybe none of us are wringing our hands about Pitt's rating. But I get it.....just like NIL in sports....the US News rankings are what we have to deal with. Incidentally....that group of 7 includes Penn State, Michigan State, Tulane, and Miami....good schools but I'll keep my degree from Pitt....thank you very much! One last thing....I did have one WTF moment at looking at these rankings....University of Georgia at 46 🤣. That's all.

On Georgia’s behalf (since I take classes there as part of the over-62program) let me tell you that it’s all about the Hope Scholarship money coming from the lottery that started in 1993. If you got high enough grades, you go to school on the Lottery’s dime. You don’t think that attracts top students? Back in the 80s you barely needed a 900 sat to get in. Now it’s 1300 and better.
There are new buildings all around a pretty campus. Plus they have great sports teams and the student life here is pretty great!

Georgia used its lottery to fund the future. As I understand it, I’m PA used it’s to find seniors.

 

[NKSplitter]

PA used it’s to find seniors.

And the effort was an unprecedented success!

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

In the meaningless stats department, but sure to been as a bragging point, as far as average conference ranking, the ACC maintains its long-standing place at the top.

Average US News member ranking among Power 4 conferences:
ACC: 51.6
Big Ten: 53.9
SEC: 114.2
B12: 140.9

Again, the Big 12 living up to the "Truck Stop Conference" moniker. Yikes.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

So we should tarp the top 10 or 15 floors of the Cathedral?

Whammy

 

[Conemaugh]

US News & World Report still exists?

Only for the college rankings issue..... much like Sports Illustrated and the swimsuit issue. Available online!

 

[Conemaugh]

On Georgia’s behalf (since I take classes there as part of the over-62program) let me tell you that it’s all about the Hope Scholarship money coming from the lottery that started in 1993. If you got high enough grades, you go to school on the Lottery’s dime. You don’t think that attracts top students? Back in the 80s you barely needed a 900 sat to get in. Now it’s 1300 and better.
There are new buildings all around a pretty campus. Plus they have great sports teams and the student life here is pretty great!

Georgia used its lottery to fund the future. As I understand it, I’m PA used it’s to find seniors.

Georgia's lottery approach for college students is great. Every stack of cynder blocks with a roof and a gas pump has state gambling machines and alcohol sold by the single can though..... so you have that too.

The cynic would say the poor are paying for college kids to party at school. The optimist would say that money would be gambled away anyway.

Either way, there are interesting things to see if you stop at a dump gas station in the middle of nowhere Georgia on payday.

 

[mike412]

My niece and nephew both graduated from public HSs in Georgia with GPAs high enough for them to go to UGA basically for free (excluding room and board). While they chose not to, a significant number of their HS friends did go to UGA. Many of them were rewarded with cars by their parents in consideration for saving the parents around $40,000 in tuition.

It’s funny. I went to Pitt about the time it became a state-related university. Tuition back then was $25 per credit, so a full 15 credit semester cost $375. It’s extraordinary to me how much tuition has increased, not just at Pitt but everywhere.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

The AAU has zero to do with any rankings. Zero.

ASU is a huge...giant...diploma mill when it comes to undergrad enrollment. It is the largest school in the country. When you are that large, I don't know how much quality control goes on. But I haven't looked into their stats to know why they are where they are. They've haven't really moved a ton. I don't know much about Arizona as an institution either. I imagine a lot of top achieving Arizona students look to go to school in CA.

Remember that US News also has another Ranking comparing Universities "US News Global Ranking"

What I found interesting is that there is a huge discrepancy when comparing Pitt's Global Ranking vs Pitt's National Ranking compared to other Universities.

For Example:

US News "National Ranking in the US" and "Global Ranking":

Pitt: National Ranking #70 and Global Ranking #50
CMU: National Ranking #21 and Global Ranking #134
Rutgers: National Ranking #41 and Global Ranking #148
Northeastern University: National Ranking #54 and Global Ranking #227.

Isn't it ironic that Pitt ranks significantly higher Globally than in the US.

Aside from the US Schools you also have to compete against great international universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Univ of Toronto, Imperial College of London, Peking University and University of Amsterdam to name a few.

Each of these rankings have their own set of criteria.

I guess the Pitt administration needs to look into why Pitt is Great on the Global Ranking and only Good on the National Ranking.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[FreeportPanther]

I blame Victory Heights!

 

[CrazyPaco]

Remember that US News also has another Ranking comparing Universities "US News Global Ranking"

What I found interesting is that there is a huge discrepancy when comparing Pitt's Global Ranking vs Pitt's National Ranking compared to other Universities.

For Example:

US News "National Ranking in the US" and "Global Ranking":

Pitt: National Ranking #70 and Global Ranking #50
CMU: National Ranking #21 and Global Ranking #134
Rutgers: National Ranking #41 and Global Ranking #148
Northeastern University: National Ranking #54 and Global Ranking #227.

Isn't it ironic that Pitt ranks significantly higher Globally than in the US.

Aside from the US Schools you also have to compete against great international universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Univ of Toronto, Imperial College of London, Peking University and University of Amsterdam to name a few.

Each of these rankings have their own set of criteria.

I guess the Pitt administration needs to look into why Pitt is Great on the Global Ranking and only Good on the National Ranking.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

These and other global rankings focus primarily or solely on research output measures. See post #4 in this thread. Pitt always does really well in these, and is almost always in the US top 50.

There has always been a huge disconnect between Pitt's place when the methodology focuses on research output compared to "undergrad" specific measures. And that is the problem....Pitt is completely undervalued in the US reputationally. And unfortunately, none of these international rankings caries any weight in the US, at least for the target recruitment population from where Pitt derives 25% of its operating budget: tuition and fees.

In Post #4 I looked at straight total R&D expenditures compared to the US News undergrad ranks. Below, I post a similar list of the top 25 domestic schools in the 2024-25 US News Global universities (only US universities as ranked by their place only amongst other US universities in that global list) with their corresponding 2025 US News undergrad best colleges rank. Again, the most extreme outlier here between the two ranks is Pitt... and it isn't even close.

1. Harvard (3)
2. MIT (2)
3. Stanford (4)
4. Cal (17)
5. Washington (46)
6. Columbia (13)
7. Yale (5)
8. UCLA (15)
9. Johns Hopkins (6)
10. Penn (10)
11. UCSF (no undergrad component)
12. Princeton (1)
13. Cornell (11)
13. Michigan (21)
15. UCSD (29)
16. Cal Tech (6)
17. Northwestern (6)
18. Chicago (11)
19. Duke (6)
20. Washington U-St. Louis (21)
21. NYU (30)
22. Mount Sinai Med (no undergrad component)
23. UNC (27)
24. Pitt (70)
25. Texas (30)

In my opinion, addressing the disparity in the pervasive domestic cultural reputation of the university and its extremely high level of innovative output should be a high priority of the administration as it there has been a significant gap for decades that has been seemingly ignored. Pitt should, at minimum, be in the top 50 of US News best colleges rankings based on the where its research peers line up.

 

[TheSeldomSeenKid]

4) NIL for really smart students

 

[Panther_in_Kentucky]

Commonwealth funding to Pitt in FY 2000 was $312,574,900 in 2024 CPI-adjusted dollars representing 16.2% of Pitt's overall budget.

For 2024-25, Pitt will receive $151,500,000 in general funding which represents about 5% of Pitt's overall operating budget.

Go private.