Kenny Payne…..

[TD_6082]

There are a number of stories of guys who started outside of coaching in high-paying corporate jobs and bet on themselves by taking a low-level coaching job. I believe Brad Stevens is a prime example. Knight obviously is doing a nice job of distributing the bags of cash at Rutgers because we all know he was a below average recruiter when he was Jamie’s top assistant. I root for the guy, but he shouldn’t be in the Top 50 candidates for the Pitt job if/when Capel is done.

That's a different scenario. You're talking about someone outside the profession trying to break in.

For those already in the profession, I can't see many taking the kind of pay cut SMF is talking about.

It really takes a special breed to do what you're suggesting. It's an absolute brutal profession trying to work your way up starting out at as a student assistant or GA. I've personally known three friends who have coached in the college game. Ironically, the one who rode the bench in high school and never played college ball had far and away the most successful career. (currently a D1 HC). The others started out at their alma mater for the coach they played under. One is a HC at a small D2 school in South Carolina & the other is currently a successful high school coach in Little Rock, Arkansas. Lol - He was forced out of the college game really fast by his wife.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

There are a number of stories of guys who started outside of coaching in high-paying corporate jobs and bet on themselves by taking a low-level coaching job. I believe Brad Stevens is a prime example. Knight obviously is doing a nice job of distributing the bags of cash at Rutgers because we all know he was a below average recruiter when he was Jamie’s top assistant. I root for the guy, but he shouldn’t be in the Top 50 candidates for the Pitt job if/when Capel is done.

Yeah guys in the profession never take a half salary pay cut to become head coaches. I’m not even suggesting he be the Pitt head coach next. He will be a HM head coach first though. Unless it’s a prime MM job that pays him a mill plus.

Also, what do you think our current head coach did at Duke? They got the kid from GA because of brandin’s relationship there and the $.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

That's a different scenario. You're talking about someone outside the profession trying to break in.

For those already in the profession, I can't see many taking the kind of pay cut SMF is talking about.

It really takes a special breed to do what you're suggesting. It's an absolute brutal profession trying to work your way up starting out at as a student assistant or GA. I've personally known three friends who have coached in the college game. Ironically, the one who rode the bench in high school and never played college ball had far and away the most successful career. (currently a D1 HC). The others started out at their alma mater for the coach they played under. One is a HC at a small D2 school in South Carolina & the other is currently a successful high school coach in Little Rock, Arkansas. Lol - He was forced out of the college game really fast by his wife.

Are you people messing with me or what? There have been hundreds if not thousands of P6 assistant coaches that took paycuts to go be a low or mid major HC. There is such a thing as playing the long game? Do you guys not understand that? The coaching cats are a different breed. Most of them make close to $0 until they are 30, passing up good paying corporate jobs. They bet on themselves because they want to accomplish that dream of being a HC. Its almost that same mentality of being an entrepreneur, putting in years of sweat equity making nothing. Its unfathomable that you people dont understand the college basketball career path. I'm not saying Brandin Knight won't be a good HC. But I am saying he is a gigantic risk for a P6 because he doesn't appear to have that inner drive. He has a cushy gig and doesn't care to have his own program unless its a P6 and maybe just a few P6s: Rutgers, SHU, or Pitt

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Are you people messing with me or what? There have been hundreds if not thousands of P6 assistant coaches that took paycuts to go be a low or mid major HC. There is such a thing as playing the long game? Do you guys not understand that? The coaching cats are a different breed. Most of them make close to $0 until they are 30, passing up good paying corporate jobs. They bet on themselves because they want to accomplish that dream of being a HC. Its almost that same mentality of being an entrepreneur, putting in years of sweat equity making nothing. Its unfathomable that you people dont understand the college basketball career path. I'm not saying Brandin Knight won't be a good HC. But I am saying he is a gigantic risk for a P6 because he doesn't appear to have that inner drive. He has a cushy gig and doesn't care to have his own program unless its a P6 and maybe just a few P6s: Rutgers, SHU, or Pitt

There has never been one assistant coach making what Brandin Knight is making, right around what Jeff Capel, Orlando Antigua, Micah Shrewsberry, etc, were making as assistants when they took their leap. Antigua was actually making about 250k less and got a 1.4 mill head job at USF. Shrewsberry was making around 600 so still less and got Penn State for 1.9. Capel was making slightly more at 900 and got Pitt for 3.2.

So yes 15-20 years ago when jobs like Pitt only paid 120-150k for assistants they’d take NEC or similar jobs. That’s simply not the case anymore. Go look at the last few hiring cycles. Even Oregon’s top assistant who wasn’t very good, Stubblefield, was making 350 and wouldn’t take a small job. He got DePaul for over a mill. It doesn’t happen the way you think it does anymore . It’s not 2006.

BK will either get a Duquesne MM where they will pay him 1 mill or more or a big East/HM job. If he waits long enough, he’ll just take over at Rutgers.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

There has never been one assistant coach making what Brandin Knight is making, right around what Jeff Capel, Orlando Antigua, Micah Shrewsberry, etc, were making as assistants when they took their leap. Antigua was actually making about 250k less and got a 1.4 mill head job at USF. Shrewsberry was making around 600 so still less and got Penn State for 1.9. Capel was making slightly more at 900 and got Pitt for 3.2.

So yes 15-20 years ago when jobs like Pitt only paid 120-150k for assistants they’d take NEC or similar jobs. That’s simply not the case anymore. Go look at the last few hiring cycles. Even Oregon’s top assistant who wasn’t very good, Stubblefield, was making 350 and wouldn’t take a small job. He got DePaul for over a mill. It doesn’t happen the way you think it does anymore . It’s not 2006.

BK will either get a Duquesne MM where they will pay him 1 mill or more or a big East/HM job. If he waits long enough, he’ll just take over at Rutgers.

Ok, so we have established that a P6 assistant coach would never take a paycut to take a MM job ever again.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Ok, so we have established that a P6 assistant coach would never take a paycut to take a MM job ever again.

No, we have established a top 5 paid assistant coach is not taking a drastic pay cut to be a head coach ever again. Because it’s never happened.

When Mike Rice left Pitt for RMU, he was making 150 at Pitt. He made 130 his first year at RMU. That’s a reasonable pay cut to be a head coach.

RMU now pays about 225. If someone took a pay cut from 750 to 225 they would be put in the insane asylum

 

[JD1976]

No, we have established a top 5 paid assistant coach is not taking a drastic pay cut to be a head coach ever again. Because it’s never happened.

When Mike Rice left Pitt for RMU, he was making 150 at Pitt. He made 130 his first year at RMU. That’s a reasonable pay cut to be a head coach.

RMU now pays about 225. If someone took a pay cut from 750 to 225 they would be put in the insane asylum

Good perspective. I just laugh at the people who default to BK as a head coaching option without realizing that Pitt, for all of its historic faults, can attract a diverse candidate field of guys that have actually run programs and won games.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Good perspective. I just laugh at the people who default to BK as a head coaching option without realizing that Pitt, for all of its historic faults, can attract a diverse candidate field of guys that have actually run programs and won games.

It would be impossible to hire Brandin at Pitt if Capel is fired in 26 or 27 without head coaching experience which is a point in SMF’s favor. But he’s not gonna take a historic pay cut to get that experience. The only timing that would’ve worked for BK to get the head job was instead of Stallings because we were a somewhat stable program that you could’ve said continuity/legendary player taking over. Unfortunately, because of the hire I think BK would’ve had more NCAAT appearances in the last 8 years than the guys we hired because Stallings stunk and was wrong for the job and Capel, well that has been rehashed 100x. But yes, Pitt can go grab a guy like Takayo Siddle or Will Wade (if it were this year) Ryan Odom or other hot MM coach. They’re gonna pay well and if you can convince Bickell hoops is the right investment, you have good NIL.

 

[thebadby2]

I always considered Sideways among my 10 favorite films of all time and I can watch it each and every time I see it on cable. But I just saw the Holdovers and I may have like it more.

I did not like Election nearly as much. Not sure why that film doesn't do it for me.

Watched The Holdovers last night with my wife. A worthwhile watch but not Payne's best work IMO. Pretty clunky and forced IMO, at least compared to Sideways, Election, the Descendants. Probably because he only directed Holdovers, he didn't write it as he did the other 3 I referenced.

 

[DT_PITT]

Watched The Holdovers last night with my wife. A worthwhile watch but not Payne's best work IMO. Pretty clunky and forced IMO, at least compared to Sideways, Election, the Descendants. Probably because he only directed Holdovers, he didn't write it as he did the other 3 I referenced.

I actually liked Nebraska a smidge better than the Descendants. Haven't yet seen Downsizing which I have avoided because of the reviews.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Yeah guys in the profession never take a half salary pay cut to become head coaches. I’m not even suggesting he be the Pitt head coach next. He will be a HM head coach first though. Unless it’s a prime MM job that pays him a mill plus.

Also, what do you think our current head coach did at Duke? They got the kid from GA because of brandin’s relationship there and the $.

He’s not getting a HM offer being a bench guy at Rutgers
Let’s be real

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

He’s not getting a HM offer being a bench guy at Rutgers
Let’s be real

I define high majors as A10, American, WCC, MWC. P6 is P6 and is a different category. He might mean he may take a job at Fordham, St. Bonaventure, or UAB

 

[S.R.M.]

No, we have established a top 5 paid assistant coach is not taking a drastic pay cut to be a head coach ever again. Because it’s never happened.

When Mike Rice left Pitt for RMU, he was making 150 at Pitt. He made 130 his first year at RMU. That’s a reasonable pay cut to be a head coach.

RMU now pays about 225. If someone took a pay cut from 750 to 225 they would be put in the insane asylum

Andy Toole makes $400K at Robert Morris.
(https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/251120678). Still doesn't change the fact that saying someone should take a massive paycut to become a low major head coach is a really dumb argument.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Andy Toole makes $400K at Robert Morris.
(https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/251120678). Still doesn't change the fact that saying someone should take a massive paycut to become a low major head coach is a really dumb argument.

Wow good for him. That’s higher end of Horizon league. About 100k more than YSU who is much better. That’s pretty damn good for RMu

 

[PittPharm2002]

Earl Grant at Charleston $682k
Iona pays their coach $565k
Seems most are doing pretty well

Introducing the Mid-Major Madness Coaching Contract Database

www.midmajormadness.com

But , certainly more stress and risk if you don’t have confidence you can succeed

 

[JD1976]

Louisville just pulled off a WTF road win at Miami. Man, the ACC just continues to be puzzling outside of 2 or 3 programs.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Louisville just pulled off a WTF road win at Miami. Man, the ACC just continues to be puzzling outside of 2 or 3 programs.

3 point shooting

Louisville 43.5%
Miami 32.4%

And Miami took way too many 3s. Did Louisville play zone. Miami was 11-34 from 3 and not much better from 2. 15-33

Miami is out. ACC gets 4 teams right now with Duke, UNC, Clem, and Wake. All Carolinas schools so that's interesting. VT beat Clemson tonight but has work to do.

How bout that gutty overtime win by Memphis against Texas's San Antonio campus. Tough schedule those guys have.