There’s a lot less competition for Gonzaga on the West Coast. I don’t think Loyola can get anywhere close to the level of sustained success as Gonzaga. I think Butler or Wichita St. level of success would be a stretch.
Loyola
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Agree with you. Gonzaga is kind of in its own category. They have become THE program on the west coast. Loyola could never come close due to its own circumstances.
Yes and no. There is no reason whatsoever that Loyola shouldn’t 1: win the MVC every single year and 2: be there best program in Chicago.
Maybe that’s not enough to be the Gonzaga of the Midwest but that’s enough to make it one of the five best mid major programs in the country.
Yeah. I can see this. Just gotta get in. They wouldn't get #1 seeds like the Zags but could get 2 through 5 type seeds in big years.
This is a special team Loyola has this year. I wouldn’t be surprised in the least to see them in the Final 4. But what makes them special moving forward? It requires $$ and big-time support to keep a program at an elite level.
It would be like saying St. Joe’s should have been a dominant program on the East Coast when they had Jameer Nelson or UMass under Calipari. These things aren’t sustainable for programs at that level.
Loyola hoops is very well supported relative to its competition in the MVC. Just built new practice facilities. They basically get what they want.
I’m not saying they’re going to be perennial top 10. But they should absolutely be in the tournament every 8/10 years.
And yet in the real world they've made it twice in the last 10 years.
And also twice in the last 20.
Yup - flash in the pan is a lot more likely than making the Dance 8/10 years.
Sure. But it has the resources and location to be the hands down best team in the MVC. That’s all I’m saying. Whether or not that translates to Gonzaga’s level of success or simply winning their conference regularly who knows. They’re not facing great competition in-city either.
Gonzaga basketball is uniquely situated. Loyola basketball is not.
There will never be another "Gonzaga." But I do think the A10 should look into scooping up Loyola as they did with George Mason, VCU, Butler, and Davidson after their deep NCAAT runs.
None of them are situated to become a perennial NCAA tournament team and NC contender, and none of them ever will be.
I agree regarding a perennial NC contender. I'm talking about being a perennial NCAA tournament team and we'll have to disagree there.
Time will tell, I suppose. In all likelihood, Moser leaves after this year and this discussion is made pointless. But I do think Moser has much more of a chance to be a regular in the NCAA tournament at Loyola than at a bottom feeder school like DePaul in a bigger conference.
Nobody in the MVC is set up for prolonged success. Most years they’re going to get 1, possibly 2 bids if they’re lucky. And a good coach is going to eventually move onto bigger and better things.
I agree with that last statement. And Moser shoud leave--but I have a feeling he won't.
They play in the smallest arena in their league, and there's only one other building in the league that they are even close to in size. Several of the other arenas are well more than twice as large. If they truly have the best resources and location in the league they are doing essentially nothing to leverage that.
What they are is a mid-major who has built a couple good tournament runs because they have a good coach. As soon as the coach goes, they are back to the school that didn't make the tournament in 18 of the last 20 years. Which could be just a couple weeks from now.
They also just built a new 8-figure practice facility. And my entire premise is based on Moser staying. He’ll have more success at Loyola than a bottom feeder P5 school.
Loyola could win a NC. If St Johns can win, then Loyola can. Chicago supplies much of the Big Ten and Missouri Valley Conference with tons of talent.
I wish we had the basketball pedigree if Cleveland. Hell I’d take the pedigree of Toledo HS basketball. Chicago? Every day all day.
I wish we had the basketball pedigree if Cleveland. Hell I’d take the pedigree of Toledo HS basketball. Chicago? Every day all day.
St. John’s never won a NC and 1985 was the last time they made the Final 4.
The elite players in Chicago will be going to other places not named Loyola. This is a very unique situation and I’m rooting for them. But to expect this to be the norm is foolish.
Yeah the blue bloods are going to get theirs
But Loyola can still succeed as they have
Loyola can’t win a NC. Neither can St John’s. College basketball is a very different world than it was when St John’s was good.
Hell St John’s didn’t even win it with 4 future NBA first rounders (who were all top HS prospects equivalent to 4-5 star players) on the same team. And they will never have that again.
Also-Loyola has 2 Chicago kids on its roster. So it’s not like they’re making their living on overlooked Chicago high school players.
Like everywhere else. The big boys pluck what they want out of the city. Programs like Loyola have to find their guys outside that orbit in small rural towns like the one Krutwig is from.
I mean... Algonquin ain’t the biggest place in the world but it’s less than an hour from Chicago. Not like Krutwig waa hiding in some cornfield.
This brings up another interesting discussion: what mid major programs, outside of Gonzaga, are/have been able to sustain prolonged success? You could say Butler and Wichita State but both of them are in power conferences now. Perhaps some A10 or WCC programs? By prolonged success, I mean competing for conference championships and tournament appearances + national relevance each year.
Small HS and low level of competition get a 6’10 guy an offer sheet with 3 offers Loyola, Vermont and UAB. Schools like Loyola take those guys that excel against small time competition and sometimes they hit.
Have you ever driven an hour in just about any direction from any major Midwestern city? hardly anyone’s idea of a metropolitan area.
Sure. I mean imagine how big the ear of corn would have to be for him to hide behind it!
Sure. Just never really think of Algonquin that way. One hour out and you still have some fairly good sized towns.
A bit odd to assert that a team currently in the Sweet 16 and that actually made the Final Four a mere 3 years ago “can’t” win the NC. Seems to me they are 1 of 16 teams that actually “can” win.
No sense in bothering with facts.
Give me nonstop Sister Jean over five seconds of Jay Bilas.
In 2013, Pitt was the KenPom #8 team as an 8-seed entering their game against Wichita St.
Since you like to throw around "facts", why don't you tell us when the last small conference mid-major won the national championship. I'll save you some time--it was 1966 when Texas Southern officially broke the color barrier in college basketball. Loyola won it 3 years before that with 4 black starters. Then UCLA and Wooden went out and signed the best African-American players in the country and changed college basketball forever. A mere 55 years ago.
They don't have the players necessary to go all the way. There's always a mid-major that makes a run. The run never gets them all the way. At some point they run out of gas and the deeper, more talented opponent knocks them off. Pretty much every national champ in the modern era has had multiple future NBA players on its roster. Loyola doesn't have any, maybe Krutwig gets a cup of coffee before he goes to Europe.
that said, if there was ever a year a team like that could do it, this might be it. This is a bizarre year and the most watered down the field has ever been, and Loyola's bracket has worked out nicely for them. But it aint gonna happen.
Pitt was BADLY underseeded. I think we were also 9th or 10th in BPI. I used to do my own bracketlogy and I had us as 4 or 5 seed. I was never as off as I was on Pitt that year.
You’re probably right. I was going off the info in a Tweet I saw at the time, can’t seem to find it now though.
Pitt got blown out and finished at #11, so it isn't obvious if you only look at the final listings.
In 2017, Wichita St entered their first round game as the KenPom #5 team and were a 10-seed.
I think they can win most years with the team they have this year for sure, BUT BUT BUT I think Gonzaga is so damn good, nobody but Gonzaga can win this year , just what my eyes tell me
