Luther officially out for the season - Pitt will apply for a hardship waiver

[Chris Peak]

From Pitt:

Ryan Luther, a senior forward from Gibsonia, Pa., will miss the remainder of the season due to a stress reaction in his right foot. He missed 12 games a season ago with a stress fracture in the same foot.

“Ryan’s injury has not responded as well as we had hoped and our medical team has recommended shutting him down for the remainder of the season,” said head coach Kevin Stallings. “I know Ryan is frustrated with the injuries to the foot the past two years but everyone involved agrees that it is in his best interest to rest the foot and allow it adequate time to make a complete recovery.”

Luther was in the midst of his best season as a Panther averaging 12.7 points, 10.1 rebounds, 2.8 assists and 1.6 steals per game prior to the injury. He scored in double figures in eight of the first 10 games of the season and had four double-doubles. Luther grabbed eight or more rebounds in all 10 games and led the Panthers in rebounding in each of the final nine games he played.

“It hurts not to be out on the court and in practice with my teammates,” said Luther. “We have a good young core of players that I believe are going to continue to improve each day. I was hopeful that the latest MRI would show solid improvement in the foot but it was pretty clear that it has not responded well enough to return to action without the threat of it becoming a stress fracture like last season.”

Luther played in the first 10 games of the season and will be eligible to apply for a medical hardship. Under NCAA rules, players must play less than 10 percent of a team’s games over the first half of the season to remain eligible to apply for a medical hardship.

“I am going to apply for a medical hardship and hope to remain at the University of Pittsburgh for another season,” said Luther. “I love my coaches and teammates and believe in what we are building. This university and the city of Pittsburgh are home to me. I am anxious to get healthy and look forward to doing something special here next season.”

If Luther were granted the medical hardship, Pitt would likely return the bulk of its roster and production just one season after a complete roster overhaul. He would join an incoming class of Bryce Golden, a rugged 6-9 forward out of Maryland, and Danya Kingsby, the No. 2 JUCO combo guard in the country. Pitt will also get a boost from ultra-athletic wing Malik Ellison, who is sitting out this season due to NCAA transfer rules.

In his absence, Pitt will continue to field one of the youngest teams in the country in the always-challenging ACC. The Panthers have started four or more freshmen in each of the past six games since Luther was sideline, including five freshman starters for the first time in program history at Louisville.

Pitt returns to action Saturday, Jan. 13 against Georgia Tech (2pm – ACC Network).

 

[AJSH2P]

"I am going to apply for a medical hardship and hope to remain at the University of Pittsburgh for another season,” said Luther. “I love my coaches and teammates and believe in what we are building. This university and the city of Pittsburgh are home to me. I am anxious to get healthy and look forward to doing something special here next season.”

Where are all the people that told me yesterday he would transfer? Here's to hoping he gets healthy and comes back stronger than ever next year.

 

[Haydman]

"I am going to apply for a medical hardship and hope to remain at the University of Pittsburgh for another season,” said Luther. “I love my coaches and teammates and believe in what we are building. This university and the city of Pittsburgh are home to me. I am anxious to get healthy and look forward to doing something special here next season.”

Where are all the people that told me yesterday he would transfer? Here's to hoping he gets healthy and comes back stronger than ever next year.

For the record i don't believe he will transfer but even if that was his intention what exactly would you expect him to say? It's the middle of a season and he's still sitting on the bench with his teammates.

 

[Chris Peak]

Obviously Pitt has a typo in there. Players have to play less than 30% of games - not 10%. Luther meets the standard.

 

[DiehardPanther]

I applaud Ryan Luther. He is a true Pitt man. Hopefully he regains full strength, and leads the team to the NCAA tournament next year.

 

[Ronnyp91]

Hope he gets it, would be real nice to have him next year!

 

[Franb]

Obviously Pitt has a typo in there. Players have to play less than 30% of games - not 10%. Luther meets the standard.

How does he meet the standard - Pitt plays 31 games, and he played in 10. 30% of 31 is 9, and he played in more than 9.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Obviously Pitt has a typo in there. Players have to play less than 30% of games - not 10%. Luther meets the standard.

What is the difference between applying for a redshirt and applying for a medical hardship? Is a medical hardship waiver simply the formal language for "redshirt."

I mean I get that you have to "apply." But he either meets the game limit or he doesn't. If this happened in game 1 or game 9, would they still have said he had to apply for a "medical hardship?"

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

If this happened in game 1 or game 9, would they still have said he had to apply for a "medical hardship?"

Yes.

For a medical redshirt you have to provide information to the NCAA about the injury, including a doctor's statement about the severity of the injury and why it kept the player from playing. As far as I know it's all pretty much a formality, I don't know that they ever turn anyone down who meets the games played requirement and has the doctor's statements.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

How does he meet the standard - Pitt plays 31 games, and he played in 10. 30% of 31 is 9, and he played in more than 9.

Here's the way that it goes. Because everyone plays a conference tournament you are allowed to count one, and only one, post season game in your games played total. So Pitt will have played 32 games. 32 games times 30% of the season comes out to 9.6 games. In cases of non-whole numbers the NCAA always rounds up to the next higher number, so 9.6 games becomes 10 games for the NCAA's purposes. So the maximum number of games that a Pitt player could play this season and still be eligible for a medical redshirt is 10. Because of the way basketball schedules work, the number is 9 or 10 for (probably) everyone, and for most teams it would be 10.

 

[pitt2533]

This is good news for next season. For this season, I think this probably all but guarantees a winless ACC record but really who cares. What is the difference between winning maybe 2 games with him versus none without him.

Next season, he definitely helps if he can stay healthy. One of things I know I have been saying is they need to get a Grad Transfer or Stud Freshmen big man who can contribute right away.

We know they were not getting that Stud Freshmen and most likely they were not getting a good grad transfer either because they don't come to teams rebuilding if they are any good.

So Luther is the best option available for next season who can provide immediate help. If healthy, he can basically be a double double player and really help next season. As we have seen though, unfortunately for Ryan, staying healthy is going to be the biggest question mark.

 

[levance2]

Here's the way that it goes. Because everyone plays a conference tournament you are allowed to count one, and only one, post season game in your games played total. So Pitt will have played 32 games. 32 games times 30% of the season comes out to 9.6 games. In cases of non-whole numbers the NCAA always rounds up to the next higher number, so 9.6 games becomes 10 games for the NCAA's purposes. So the maximum number of games that a Pitt player could play this season and still be eligible for a medical redshirt is 10. Because of the way basketball schedules work, the number is 9 or 10 for (probably) everyone, and for most teams it would be 10.

In 2008, Mike Cook was injured in the Duke game, which was the 11th game. He applied for the waiver and was rejected.

Joe, do you know whether NCAA tournament games count individually? If you say Pitt played 31+1+2 games that year, Cook's number was 10.2 but was not "rounded up" as you suggest. I heard sentiment at the time that if Pitt had won another tournament game, Mike might have gotten the waiver. If Pitt had played 31+1+3, that would have been 10.5, presumably rounded to 11.

 

[pitt2533]

In 2008, Mike Cook was injured in the Duke game, which was the 11th game. He applied for the waiver and was rejected.

Joe, do you know whether NCAA tournament games count individually? If you say Pitt played 31+1+2 games that year, Cook's number was 10.2 but was not "rounded up" as you suggest. I heard sentiment at the time that if Pitt had won another tournament game, Mike might have gotten the waiver. If Pitt had played 31+1+3, that would have been 10.5, presumably rounded to 11.

I am not 100% certain but I thought I read that the NCAA tourney only counted as 1 game no matter how far you make it.

 

[levance2]

I am not 100% certain but I thought I read that the NCAA tourney only counted as 1 game no matter how far you make it.

That would make sense. I was just mentioning what I heard at the time, which could obviously be incorrect.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Here's the way that it goes. Because everyone plays a conference tournament you are allowed to count one, and only one, post season game in your games played total. So Pitt will have played 32 games. 32 games times 30% of the season comes out to 9.6 games. In cases of non-whole numbers the NCAA always rounds up to the next higher number, so 9.6 games becomes 10 games for the NCAA's purposes. So the maximum number of games that a Pitt player could play this season and still be eligible for a medical redshirt is 10. Because of the way basketball schedules work, the number is 9 or 10 for (probably) everyone, and for most teams it would be 10.

In 2008, Mike Cook was injured in the Duke game, which was the 11th game. He applied for the waiver and was rejected.

Joe, do you know whether NCAA tournament games count individually? If you say Pitt played 31+1+2 games that year, Cook's number was 10.2 but was not "rounded up" as you suggest. I heard sentiment at the time that if Pitt had won another tournament game, Mike might have gotten the waiver. If Pitt had played 31+1+3, that would have been 10.5, presumably rounded to 11.

Cook was applying for a 6th year which he was never going to get even if he was injured on the opening tip-off of the 1st game.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Long term, I think this is the best thing that could happen. We were going to get beat up this year, so adding him to the mix next year if we can, will only help us more.

 

[levance2]

Cook was applying for a 6th year which he was never going to get even if he was injured on the opening tip-off of the 1st game.

Based on what? Mallorie Winn played a 6th year.

 

[Haydman]

Long term, I think this is the best thing that could happen. We were going to get beat up this year, so adding him to the mix next year if we can, will only help us more.

I don't know. I like Ryan but it seems like at best some are predicting an NIT run with him but many still feel that's not realistic. So if that's the case wouldn't it be better to have young guy developing in the program next year so they might contribute when our current freshmen are upperclassmen? I would by no means push Ryan out but hypothetically is it a benefit long term?

 

[hoopsguy72]

I don't know. I like Ryan but it seems like at best some are predicting an NIT run with him but many still feel that's not realistic. So if that's the case wouldn't it be better to have young guy developing in the program next year so they might contribute when our current freshmen are upperclassmen? I would by no means push Ryan out but hypothetically is it a benefit long term?

Sure it is. Lots of folks were suggesting the possibility of redshirting guys like George, Ilegomah, or Brown this year, but it wasn't possible because the cupboard is so bare. ... Next year, with Golden in the fold and Luther back, that redshirting possibility comes back on the table for one or more of those players, giving them more time to develop. In the event Luther were injured again, they could choose to give up on that plan.

 

[Haydman]

Sure it is. Lots of folks were suggesting the possibility of redshirting guys like George, Ilegomah, or Brown this year, but it wasn't possible because the cupboard is so bare. ... Next year, with Golden in the fold and Luther back, that redshirting possibility comes back on the table for one or more of those players, giving them more time to develop. In the event Luther were injured again, they could choose to give up on that plan.

I would agree more with you if this team wasn't in such a desperate need of an infusion of talent. Can't imagine Brown redshirting but would you rather see Peace/George redshirt or hopefully a more highly rated, more talented freshman redshirt?

 

[Franb]

Here's the way that it goes. Because everyone plays a conference tournament you are allowed to count one, and only one, post season game in your games played total. So Pitt will have played 32 games. 32 games times 30% of the season comes out to 9.6 games. In cases of non-whole numbers the NCAA always rounds up to the next higher number, so 9.6 games becomes 10 games for the NCAA's purposes. So the maximum number of games that a Pitt player could play this season and still be eligible for a medical redshirt is 10. Because of the way basketball schedules work, the number is 9 or 10 for (probably) everyone, and for most teams it would be 10.

Thanks - did not realize the conference tournament game counted.

 

[hoopsguy72]

I would agree more with you if this team wasn't in such a desperate need of an infusion of talent. Can't imagine Brown redshirting but would you rather see Peace/George redshirt or hopefully a more highly rated, more talented freshman redshirt?

I'd probably opt for George, but hard to say right now. I like Peace a lot and tend to disagree with those who think Brown has more upside. I personally like big men with motors, which Chukwuka, Ilegomah, and George all have. Brown too often looks like he's sleeping out there, though he obviously has some skills the other guys don't have. I think, with an offseason of development ahead, the coaches can determine who might be best-suited for a redshirt, if it's even on the table.

Definitely unlikely to have a highly rated, more talented freshman to redshirt, as Luther's return means no more scholarships available. That's not to say the coaches couldn't recruit over one of the developmental bigs, but we'll see.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I am not 100% certain but I thought I read that the NCAA tourney only counted as 1 game no matter how far you make it.

Same with preseason tourneys

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

In 2008, Mike Cook was injured in the Duke game, which was the 11th game. He applied for the waiver and was rejected.

Joe, do you know whether NCAA tournament games count individually? If you say Pitt played 31+1+2 games that year, Cook's number was 10.2 but was not "rounded up" as you suggest. I heard sentiment at the time that if Pitt had won another tournament game, Mike might have gotten the waiver. If Pitt had played 31+1+3, that would have been 10.5, presumably rounded to 11.

NCAA tournament games don't really count at all. Schools are allowed to count one, and only one, post season game in their total. Otherwise a team that goes on a long postseason run would be able to get redshirts for guys who played several extra games as opposed to a team that gets knocked out after one game.

For purposes of medical redshirts Pitt's number of games this year is 32. And it will be 32 if we lose in the first round of the ACC Tournament or if we follow up our ACC championship by winning the whole damn thing.

 

[levance2]

For purposes of medical redshirts Pitt's number of games this year is 32. And it will be 32 if we lose in the first round of the ACC Tournament or if we follow up our ACC championship by winning the whole damn thing.

Why don't they just say you must play in 10 or fewer games then? Seems unnecessarily complicated.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Why don't they just say you must play in 10 or fewer games then? Seems unnecessarily complicated.

Because the rule isn't just for basketball, it's for all sports. A basketball team might play 32 games but a football team only plays 12. A soccer team might play 18. A volleyball team might play 30. A baseball team will play somewhere in the 50s. Rather than have a different rule or a different number for every sport the rule simply says 30% of the number of scheduled games rounded up. It really isn't all that complicated.

 

[goalieman]

Yes.

For a medical redshirt you have to provide information to the NCAA about the injury, including a doctor's statement about the severity of the injury and why it kept the player from playing. As far as I know it's all pretty much a formality, I don't know that they ever turn anyone down who meets the games played requirement and has the doctor's statements.

To clarify .... in the case of a Hardship Waiver/Medical Redshirt you apply for the waiver to your conference not to the NCAA and in Luther's case it will be the ACC not the NCAA who will grant or deny the request ..... if the ACC denies the waiver, then Luther can appeal to the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement which has the power to grant the waiver on it's own ...... if a team is not in a conference then the request for a Hardship Waiver goes directly to the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement for a decision.

 

[goalieman]

In 2008, Mike Cook was injured in the Duke game, which was the 11th game. He applied for the waiver and was rejected.

Joe, do you know whether NCAA tournament games count individually? If you say Pitt played 31+1+2 games that year, Cook's number was 10.2 but was not "rounded up" as you suggest. I heard sentiment at the time that if Pitt had won another tournament game, Mike might have gotten the waiver. If Pitt had played 31+1+3, that would have been 10.5, presumably rounded to 11.

The conference tournament counts as one game no matter how many games you play in the conference tournament and any games past the conference tournament (NCAAT, NIT, CBI,etc.) do not count at all.

Remember also that Pitt played an exhibition game against Slippery Rock and a scrimmage against Villanova ....... you are allowed to exempt two exhibition games against non-DI opponents or one exhibition game against a non-DI opponent and one scrimmage game, so those games should be excluded from the calculations.

For the Hardship Waiver, the injury must be prior to the 1st game of the 2nd half of the season, be season ending as documented by the attending physician(s), and the player cannot have played in more than 3 games or 30% of the games whichever number is higher ..... for Pitt this season, 30% x 32 games (31 regular season + one conference tournament = 32) is 9.6 games which as Joe stated is rounded up to 10 games (anytime there is a fraction of a game you round up to the next whole number) ....... therefore, he can't have played in more than 10 games .... Ryan played in 10 games so he qualifies on all accounts to apply for a medical redshirt as long as he does not play in anymore games this season ..... the ACC has to decide whether to grant the waiver or not and it is very likely they will .... if they don't, Ryan can appeal to the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement which can hear the appeal and has the power to grant the waiver.

 

[Pittx9]

I applaud Ryan Luther. He is a true Pitt man. Hopefully he regains full strength, and leads the team to the NCAA tournament next year.

Hopefully he comes back. At the very least he more than anyone in recent years deserves a healthy senior day.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

To clarify .... in the case of a Hardship Waiver/Medical Redshirt you apply for the waiver to your conference not to the NCAA and in Luther's case it will be the ACC not the NCAA who will grant or deny the request ..... if the ACC denies the waiver, then Luther can appeal to the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement which has the power to grant the waiver on it's own ...... if a team is not in a conference then the request for a Hardship Waiver goes directly to the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement for a decision.

Yeah, technically it is the conference that make the decisions, but the rules that the conferences follow come from the NCAA. That's part of the reason for the appeals process, if the conference does not follow the NCAA's rules then the appeals committee most certainly will.

 

[levance2]

The conference tournament counts as one game no matter how many games you play in the conference tournament and any games past the conference tournament (NCAAT, NIT, CBI,etc.) do not count at all.

Remember also that Pitt played an exhibition game against Slippery Rock and a scrimmage against Villanova ....... you are allowed to exempt two exhibition games against non-DI opponents or one exhibition game against a non-DI opponent and one scrimmage game, so those games should be excluded from the calculations.

For the Hardship Waiver, the injury must be prior to the 1st game of the 2nd half of the season, be season ending as documented by the attending physician(s), and the player cannot have played in more than 3 games or 30% of the games whichever number is higher ..... for Pitt this season, 30% x 32 games (31 regular season + one conference tournament = 32) is 9.6 games which as Joe stated is rounded up to 10 games (anytime there is a fraction of a game you round up to the next whole number) ....... therefore, he can't have played in more than 10 games .... Ryan played in 10 games so he qualifies on all accounts to apply for a medical redshirt as long as he does not play in anymore games this season ..... the ACC has to decide whether to grant the waiver or not and it is very likely they will .... if they don't, Ryan can appeal to the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement which can hear the appeal and has the power to grant the waiver.

Thanks for the summary. Given all that, why did KS originally announce he wouldn’t seek a RS because he didn’t think Ryan would qualify? Seems pretty clear he would.

My thought was he was afraid he might transfer after graduating and would rather use him for any games this year than none next year.

 

[FireballZ]

Thanks for the summary. Given all that, why did KS originally announce he wouldn’t seek a RS because he didn’t think Ryan would qualify? Seems pretty clear he would.

My thought was he was afraid he might transfer after graduating and would rather use him for any games this year than none next year.

I give you credit, you're really creative in your ability to put a negative Stallings spin on any and every thing possible.

 

[rmf05]

Based on what? Mallorie Winn played a 6th year.

Winn wasn't a med hardship. She convinced the NCAA that she was in a hostile situation at her former school and requested an out to Pitt. If I remember right, her second injury happened after she transferred.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Winn wasn't a med hardship. She convinced the NCAA that she was in a hostile situation at her former school and requested an out to Pitt. If I remember right, her second injury happened after she transferred.

Usually to get a sixth season there has to be some sort of extenuating circumstances. If you use up a redshirt year transferring and then you get hurt the NCAA's attitude is that you knew you only had five years to play when you decided to transfer so they aren't going to "reward" you when you knew the consequences in the first place. If a player suffers two major injuries and can't play two seasons they look at that as if it isn't your fault, and you shouldn't be punished for something that is not your fault. In other cases you have to show them something beyond just "I didn't like it there so I transferred" as a reason.

It was a surprise (to the public, at least) when Winn got a 6th season, because no one really knows what went on and what she argued to the NCAA to get an exemption that most players do not get.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Thanks for the summary. Given all that, why did KS originally announce he wouldn’t seek a RS because he didn’t think Ryan would qualify? Seems pretty clear he would.

My thought was he was afraid he might transfer after graduating and would rather use him for any games this year than none next year.

Did you ever think that the doctors who are treating Ryan’s injury told them that two three weeks of rest in a boot was the anwser ? If he could come back and play the majority of this ACC season he should , but to possibly play 2/3 games at the end of the season , what’s the point ?

 

[levance2]

Did you ever think that the doctors who are treating Ryan’s injury told them that two three weeks of rest in a boot was the anwser ? If he could come back and play the majority of this ACC season he should , but to possibly play 2/3 games at the end of the season , what’s the point ?

Kevin Stallings said he thought Ryan played too many games and was not eligible. If you and @FireballZ want to argue that KS just doesn’t understand NCAA rules, then I accept that. He said it, not me.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Kevin Stallings said he thought Ryan played too many games and was not eligible. If you and @FireballZ want to argue that KS just doesn’t understand NCAA rules, then I accept that. He said it, not me.

Does “my thought that he ... “ sound familiar ? That’s what I was responding to.

 

[levance2]

Does “my thought that he ... “ sound familiar ? That’s what I was responding to.

KS came out to a crowd of reporters and said, “No, we aren’t pursuing a RS because he played too many games.” Someone on his staff or within the AD could have easily explained that wasn’t the case, as was done in this thread. So where did that rather confident answer come from when it is definitely wrong?

This season is obviously already off the rails and keeping Ryan another year is one of the biggest additions he can make. Why would he definitively discount that option? Pitt might have been able to win a couple games this year when Ryan came back, even if he came back really late. My theory here has nothing to do with KS, just the total risk an uncertainty these days when it comes to grad transfers. KS shouldn’t sacrifice wins this year so Ryan can go play somewhere else next year. But of course you SIGers need to paint it differently.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

KS came out to a crowd of reporters and said, “No, we aren’t pursuing a RS because he played too many games.” Someone on his staff or within the AD could have easily explained that wasn’t the case, as was done in this thread. So where did that rather confident answer come from when it is definitely wrong?

This season is obviously already off the rails and keeping Ryan another year is one of the biggest additions he can make. Why would he definitively discount that option? Pitt might have been able to win a couple games this year when Ryan came back, even if he came back really late. My theory here has nothing to do with KS, just the total risk an uncertainty these days when it comes to grad transfers. KS shouldn’t sacrifice wins this year so Ryan can go play somewhere else next year. But of course you SIGers need to paint it differently.

Maybe he made a mistake , have you ever ?

 

[levance2]

Maybe he made a mistake , have you ever ?

If I were getting paid millions as a NCAA HC, I would understand when a RS is allowed and when it isn’t, at least before presenting my conclusion at a press conference.