Maverick Rowan has officially reclassified AND...
- Thread starter Joe the Panther Fan
- Start date
Don't think this was a kosher recruiting battle. The bottom line in recruiting is that Pitt isn't willing to cheat to win . Here's a local kid whose dream at one time was to play here and OTHER forces came into play. College athletics really is a cesspool.
Fortunately he can out coach them.
But he does need to get his recruiting dumpster fire of the last few years under control.
You are surprised by this commitment? This happened ages ago. We knew Rowan wasn't coming here. Wake up.
Well yeah, he probably knew that. But he needed something to make him feel bad for today and this was as good as anything.
I understand I shouldn't feel like this, but I hope the kid does nothing and fails. Maybe it's him. Probably it's his dad. But I want that family to be zapped of basketball happiness the next four years for how this whole thing was handled.
Hopefully the zoo will be prepared to boo this sucker off the court... or worse... when he comes to town.
Would be even better if his DAD came and they booed HIM out of the building.
Would be even better if his DAD came and they booed HIM out of the building.
This is the excuse in both sports, all the time. It is pathetic. EVERY other school is paying players, families, and handlers and Pitt is the altar boy, who just won't break the rules like EVERY other school does for EVERY player we miss out on.
And it's a bogus excuse in both sports all the time.
We aren't selling Pitt as well as other schools are selling themselves. This kid going elsewhere is on Dixon and staff, alone. Same with Heron.
What makes me scratch my head is why NCST? I don't really buy the "oh its becasue NC State cheats and we don't" camp. Its more like: what do they have to offer that Pitt does not? They are similar schools in stature and recent success.
I coaching staff who does a great job recruiting and selling their school.
I think much less of Gottfried as a coach, but, he's cleaning out clock in any head to head recruiting battles to date.
I know, I am the critic. But a lot of people on here sure make a lot of excuses on why Pitt can't. Some of you love Pitt basketball so much, yet make it easy on justifying why a kid would not want to play at Pitt. I really don't get that. As Souf said, it is about selling, that is what recruiting is. We are not Duke. We are not Kentucky. But...
1) We are the ONLY show in town so to speak when it comes to basketball. There is no NBA team, While we see what sharing a city with an NFL franchise hampers the football team, this is not true of basketball. And...there is no big, in state school hovering over us, taking up media time.
2) We are in a great conference, have been in arguably the best basketball conference the last few decades, whether the Big East or the new ACC. Very high visibility and level of play, lots of TV time.
3) We have great facilities and the ZOO has become legendary as far as crowd reputations are concerned. Again, quite the opposite the football program has been.
4) We have been really successful, maybe no Final Four's, but top 10's, #1 seeds, you can sell that coming to Pitt you can win a championship.
5) While not an NBA factory, you can get to the NBA from here.
I just don't understand how we always are out recruited by other schools save for a few assistants when they come here. I know Slice is considered overrated by many of yinz (because he is not here) but man he had us in with a lot of kids. This should be a fairly easy sell. And to those who counter "well you have to play defense here". Ever watch Louisville? Think Syracuse don't play defense? Duke? Kentucky? Okay, it may not be roll out the ball Roy at UNC, but Pitino's and Calipari's teams play fierce defense. So again, that is another excuse.
This is not just geared towards Rowan, obviously there was more there than just a decommit, but still....Jamie and company needs to start closing and locking some of these kids up.
1) We are the ONLY show in town so to speak when it comes to basketball. There is no NBA team, While we see what sharing a city with an NFL franchise hampers the football team, this is not true of basketball. And...there is no big, in state school hovering over us, taking up media time.
2) We are in a great conference, have been in arguably the best basketball conference the last few decades, whether the Big East or the new ACC. Very high visibility and level of play, lots of TV time.
3) We have great facilities and the ZOO has become legendary as far as crowd reputations are concerned. Again, quite the opposite the football program has been.
4) We have been really successful, maybe no Final Four's, but top 10's, #1 seeds, you can sell that coming to Pitt you can win a championship.
5) While not an NBA factory, you can get to the NBA from here.
I just don't understand how we always are out recruited by other schools save for a few assistants when they come here. I know Slice is considered overrated by many of yinz (because he is not here) but man he had us in with a lot of kids. This should be a fairly easy sell. And to those who counter "well you have to play defense here". Ever watch Louisville? Think Syracuse don't play defense? Duke? Kentucky? Okay, it may not be roll out the ball Roy at UNC, but Pitino's and Calipari's teams play fierce defense. So again, that is another excuse.
This is not just geared towards Rowan, obviously there was more there than just a decommit, but still....Jamie and company needs to start closing and locking some of these kids up.
1. I don't think kids care that interest in PGH is low for hoops, not much of a salespitch.
2. So is everybody else.
3. Our facilities are frankly average. The Pete helped level the playing field, not put us ahead of it.
4. Agreed..but, what about lately? I mean, we have fans hypothetically talking about when to part ways with Dixon...even in a hypothetical..it's not a great vibe.
5. Same from anywhere else.
I guess what I'm saying, we're just another program from perception standpoint...and it's showing on the recruiting trail.
Well on the first item, my point is that if you are basketball player, and there are basketball fans, you are going to be kids idols, etc... The attention is on you moreso than say at St Johns or Marquette or DePaul or other city schools that share w/ NBA teams.
As for the other stuff, I agree with you they aren't big advantages, but they also aren't roadblocks like they are in football. So...it puts us at an even position to sell the program.
The biggest drawback is the lack of local talent. There really aren't any drawbacks to this program other than the fact that they aren't Duke, UK, UNC, etc....but neither are most everyone else.
I think so too.
The Rowan recruitment was certainly a bit of an odd bird. Taken on it's own, as a singular situation, it is to me understandable why he ended up at NC State. And again, there is nothing I find troubling about this individual situation.
However, taken in the context of recruiting over the last couple years, it does fit an ongoing trend which does not look positive.
Long story short -- Dixon and Co. have a couple of open scholarships and a couple of months to demonstrate that this isn't part of a trend. I'm looking forward to seeing if they can get it done.
Well, for one, NCSU is an Adidas school, though this is the last year of their contract.
Also, NCSU plays up-tempo and Gottfried is viewed as a players' coach, one of the guys, so to speak. He's a great communicator and recruiter and that resonates. He's never been accused of being a very good coach but the guy has always been an above average recruiter. He always has players, dont worry about that. What he does with them is another story.
The only saving grace for Pitt is that Rowan chose an Adidas school. Other than that, it would be really really embarrassing that a local Top 25-50 recruit decommitted from the local ACC school to choose another ACC school which is pretty much equal in every way that matters to Pitt. Never in a million years would a Raleigh Top 25-50 recruit decommit from NCSU to choose Pitt over NCSU. Never, never, never.
Me too, because ultimately, they'll be held responsible for the outcome..which is why I don't bemoan it. It'll work itself out one way or another, I'm hoping it's with Dixon still in charge.
They aren't drawbacks or roadblocks for football, either.
Frankly... i've seen scrub players from old teams get fawned over in Chapel Hill and Durham out at bars and restaurants. Because those fans REALLY do care about hoops that much. Unless you're a star in Pittsburgh, you're not getting that attention..and even our stars are more anonymous.
There are some pretty basic facts that are occurring right now. One is that our level of success isn't at the same place it was 5 years ago. The second is that we are demonstrating difficulties with recruiting. The third is that Dixon will get things turned around or he won't.
Maybe Dixon could take a cardboard cutout of Slice with him when he sees recruits?? Or a letter of recommendation???
I think that Dixon should have a reputation at this point for not being overly effusive in promising to tailor a team to fit a player. Think Khem Birch. You come in, you aren't promised a position or a starting job. Jeter lost a whole year at JC just to ride the pine here for a while. If you don't prove you are worth running plays for, or starting, or potentially becoming a star, you won't be. I think there are plenty of teams (especially teams that are worse than Pitt) who can promise the world to a kid, whether it materializes or not.
Rowan probably has a promise that he'll start immediately or within X years, he'll have the freedom to shoot as often or poorly as he wants, etc. Whether any of that actually happens is secondary. Dixon almost surely would not offer that.
Without revealing any premium information, do you know of or do you think anything is currently being done to address our difficulties in recruiting?
See you can look back at Ashton Gibbs, he certainly had his shots. He scored. His Senior year he was in the top 40 in FGA, and basically had as many shot attempts per game as Harrison Barnes, Deandre Kane (with Marshall), Doug McDermott, this is another item on Pitt under Dixon that gets overblown (lack of individual shots).
I'm not saying those critiques are valid, I am saying that is likely his reputation. Gibbs played his way into that role, just as a terrible Gary McGhee played his way to starting center on a #1 seed. My point is that Dixon doesn't promise these roles to kids, and requires them to perform to get them. I have no idea what went on with Jeter this past year, but nobody can honestly believe that he left a D-I school, sat out a year, and then joined Pitt just to go multiple games with zero minutes played. It ended up working itself out and Jeter proved to be a pretty productive guy overall. However, someone without his circumstance or patience might have just given up.
Look at a guy like John Johnson. He wanted minutes. He thought he deserved them, rightly or wrongly. He wasn't "handed" the minutes at the expense of others, so he left. Recruits seem to all think they deserve everything, and if all the other recruiters are promising you everything, why on earth would you choose the one guy who isn't? Even if you are confident you'll earn the opportunities, why take the risk? Epps thought he was a 1-and-done and look how that turned out.
The Rowans played the recruiting game almost to perfection. Commit as a sophomore, every article that is written mentions that you have committed to school "x", the commitment elevates your profile & bigger schools start to take notice, job offers come to family members, decommitment & a new set of schools to choose from.
You're right. Dixon is "old school" in a lot of ways and we owe a lot of our epic success to those philosophies.......but maybe also our big downslide. Seems as if this generation of players is much different than the generation when he took the job. I dont know if its the social media, the smart phones, etc but these kids are just really spoiled and really into themselves. Its almost as if you're not automatically BFFs with these 16 year old recruits, you have no chance because they want to be promised the world and promised how great they are.
I like Dixon. He's honest and he's a really good coach. I just hope he's able to land enough of these me-first Millenials to win enough games.
I can't imagine a coach having credibility in promising court time to a player. I have heard interviews that are just the opposite, in which players say they were attracted to a program because they were told they would have to earn their time. A coach can talk about how he sees the strengths and weaknesses of a recruit's game and where it might fit in with the team, but even athletes at this level and up know that there are levels of play above their standard, and they know they have to work hard and improve in order to compete.
In the same vein, the often-stated dichotomy between recruiting and coaching does not make much sense, either. Players want to play for coaches who are going to help them improve to their highest possible extent, and that is what Dixon does, as attested by Pitt's most--improved-player awards. Pitt might not get the top NBA-bound kids who are marking time for a year, but just about anybody who played at Pitt and has health can be found somewhere in the world playing professionally.
In the same vein, the often-stated dichotomy between recruiting and coaching does not make much sense, either. Players want to play for coaches who are going to help them improve to their highest possible extent, and that is what Dixon does, as attested by Pitt's most--improved-player awards. Pitt might not get the top NBA-bound kids who are marking time for a year, but just about anybody who played at Pitt and has health can be found somewhere in the world playing professionally.
I think the comcept of regression to the mean is at play the past few years.
Several years we had average teams who over performed... So mathematics say we were prone to have less luck and success in time.
The key question is where is Dixon 's average and is that an appropriate place for our program?
Several years we had average teams who over performed... So mathematics say we were prone to have less luck and success in time.
The key question is where is Dixon 's average and is that an appropriate place for our program?
I don't know of anything specific. We have a whole bunch of offers out there right now. Hopefully, a couple of them will work out.
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