More P4 schools cancelling spring games… could Pitt be next?

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

An "even playing field" is a joke. The B1G and SEC think that they are a welfare state who needs everything tipped in their favor. They shouldn't be taken seriously. The other conferences need to be publicly shaming them for their actions.

We are sensitive to that end of it without realizing how many advantages the ACC has over the G5 schools, etc. Just goes right down the food chain, and the whole thing sucks.

I'd opt for the ACC/Big 12/some G5 schools to tear up their grants of rights tomorrow, let anyone who wants to join the big two do so, and make the best of whatever new league they can come up with. I'd adapt to that. As it stands, however, this slow descent - in conjunction with now knowing what BS they'll come up with next - is making me apathetic, and I doubt I'm still watching college football by 2036.

Obviously this will never happen, because administrative salaries would decrease quite a bit. They'd much rather be fed big two scraps and comply with their demands than actually be competitive.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

The fact that schools can and can't do certain things with these players that compete within the same conference let alone the same format to qualify for a championship shows how dysfunctional college sports has become. And when you have no one in charge as truly the governing body, it will continue to be like this.

 

[cashisking884]

There are many ways around that issue, mainly centered around not calling the players employees of the university.

There’s no right for non-employees to collectively bargain against somebody that isn’t their employer.

So there’s no really a work around the collective bargaining issue, which is the real issue.

 

[cashisking884]

An "even playing field" is a joke. The B1G and SEC think that they are a welfare state who needs everything tipped in their favor. They shouldn't be taken seriously. The other conferences need to be publicly shaming them for their actions.

I mean as it relates to each other.

It is an interesting issue in terms of creating a college football collective bargaining agreement.

Some schools could allow it if they wanted to.
Other schools literally can’t even if they want to allow it.

 

[cashisking884]

The fact that schools can and can't do certain things with these players that compete within the same conference let alone the same format to qualify for a championship shows how dysfunctional college sports has become. And when you have no one in charge as truly the governing body, it will continue to be like this.

Or even within the same state.
Texas forbids public collectively bargaining except for teachers and I think firefighters.

So Texas would be forbidden from allowing the players to collectively bargain.
But SMU or TCU could allow it.

 

[ADoseofReality]

If players are going to be paid they should be under some sort of contract and be allowed to transfer before the contract is up.

The reality is, this makes no sense. What’s the point of having them sign a contract if they can break it whenever they want?

 

[Saboteur II]

This is not one of life's great tragedies.

No. But if OHIO STATE cancels, 100,000 people will want to fire Ryan Day.

 

[forbesfield]

There’s no right for non-employees to collectively bargain against somebody that isn’t their employer.

So there’s no really a work around the collective bargaining issue, which is the real issue.

It's pretty complicated, I imagine. Who's in the union? Would it be just P-4 players? How about the FCS? What happens to the non-revenue sports that are still receiving some amount of NIL regardless? Women?

All of these groups will have competing interests, and I'm not sure how easy it is to exclude groups without them running straight to the courts.

This will take a long, long time.

 

[joeydavid]

I mean as it relates to each other.

It is an interesting issue in terms of creating a college football collective bargaining agreement.

Some schools could allow it if they wanted to.
Other schools literally can’t even if they want to allow it.

I was attempting to call them the hypocrites that they are.... Lol.

 

[AllegeneeGenacGenac]

There’s no right for non-employees to collectively bargain against somebody that isn’t their employer.

So there’s no really a work around the collective bargaining issue, which is the real issue.

Serious question, how do the guilds like SAG work then? They do what seems to me like collective bargaining but the members are not employees of the movie studio or production company I assume.

 

[HailtoPitt]

The reality is, this makes no sense. What’s the point of having them sign a contract if they can break it whenever they want?

Typo. Should not be allowed.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

outside of a few blue blood programs who can still get 75k to these, most programs should cancel the spring game and just do another "closed" scrimmage..


Here is an idea. maybe not televise it but offer a condensed highlight of it. Kind of like a condensed game edited and released by pitt. Similar to what they do after every game but maybe a little longer..

 

[pittdan77]

Spring games were always dumb. Always were more of a publicity stunt to get obsessed donors onto campus to spend money.

I do enjoy all of the scheming that our fan base is doing to try to prevent the insanity that has taken over college football. It's kind of cute but pointless.

 

[HailToPitt725]

outside of a few blue blood programs who can still get 75k to these, most programs should cancel the spring game and just do another "closed" scrimmage..


Here is an idea. maybe not televise it but offer a condensed highlight of it. Kind of like a condensed game edited and released by pitt. Similar to what they do after every game but maybe a little longer..

I liked what we did back in 2015 when it was held at Highmark Stadium (the last one I’ve been to). It created a much smaller, more intimate atmosphere that made you feel close to the players and coach (as well as Shady and Fitz!). I’d love it if we did that again.

 

[cashisking884]

Serious question, how do the guilds like SAG work then? They do what seems to me like collective bargaining but the members are not employees of the movie studio or production company I assume.

Because the government is not a party to it, and the positions in question aren’t government positions.

You need the state government’s permission to do anything to it that isn’t stated in the federal Constitution. You can’t even sue your state government without its permission.

These states outlaw collective bargaining in the public sector. Georgia does not allow the government to even recognize unions in relation to the public sector.

Whether you’re an employee or independent contractor, it won’t matter. You will be occupying a position that is an extension of the state. You do not have a right to hold up such services/duties as part of collective bargaining. The players would need the government’s permission, and therefore a statutory exception.

 

[AllegeneeGenacGenac]

Because the government is not a party to it, and the positions in question aren’t government positions.

You need the state government’s permission to do anything to it that isn’t stated in the federal Constitution. You can’t even sue your state government without its permission.

These states outlaw collective bargaining in the public sector. Georgia does not allow the government to even recognize unions in relation to the public sector.

Whether you’re an employee or independent contractor, it won’t matter. You will be occupying a position that is an extension of the state. You do not have a right to hold up such services/duties as part of collective bargaining. The players would need the government’s permission, and therefore a statutory exception.

So it doesn't matter whether they are employees or not, which is what I thought would be a loophole.

I suspect a lot of these southern states would be more than ok with a statutory exception if they feel their flagship university's football team would be less competitive without an exception, but we'll see at some point I think.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

There’s no right for non-employees to collectively bargain against somebody that isn’t their employer.

So there’s no really a work around the collective bargaining issue, which is the real issue.

(Fwiw, I've been a union organizer for about 25 years and have a good understanding of both the NLRA and public sector labor law in a variety of pro and anti union states.) I

I think the easiest work around would be for the SEC and Big 10 to create a professional league that still uses those schools uniforms, traditions, etc., but this newly incorporated league itself becomes a private sector employer of the athletes. Then the players can chose to form a union and negotiate a CBA with a salary cap, floor, and so on.

I don't think this is that likely though. I think they'd prefer to create such a league someday but that leaves the players somewhat less powerful than a CBA could make them. And if Alabama feels it is becoming less competitive, then just throw more NIL money at the players and this messiness continues.

 

[cashisking884]

(Fwiw, I've been a union organizer for about 25 years and have a good understanding of both the NLRA and public sector labor law in a variety of pro and anti union states.) I

I think the easiest work around would be for the SEC and Big 10 to create a professional league that still uses those schools uniforms, traditions, etc., but this newly incorporated league itself becomes a private sector employer of the athletes. Then the players can chose to form a union and negotiate a CBA with a salary cap, floor, and so on.

I don't think this is that likely though. I think they'd prefer to create such a league someday but that leaves the players somewhat less powerful than a CBA could make them. And if Alabama feels it is becoming less competitive, then just throw more NIL money at the players and this messiness continues.

I agree. Some club that they just slap their name on. Like they do hospitals and such to say that is part of their network.

The easiest fix to all of this is to just end state owned teams.

 

[forbesfield]

Spring games were always dumb. Always were more of a publicity stunt to get obsessed donors onto campus to spend money.

I do enjoy all of the scheming that our fan base is doing to try to prevent the insanity that has taken over college football. It's kind of cute but pointless.

There's actually nothing wrong with pandering to obsessed donors who are willing to give.

I went to an OSU spring game some years back with a buddy, and it was a lot of fun. I don't remember the attendance, but it had to be well over 50K. And they are swimming in cash.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I agree. Some club that they just slap their name on. Like they do hospitals and such to say that is part of their network.

The easiest fix to all of this is to just end state owned teams.

why would a university want to affiliate their name/branding to a semi pro club sport team under this scenario? The players arent athletes, basically have nothing to do with the school under this scenario, so why would a school fund the stadium, locker room, university faciities and have the games on their campus for what is basically a semi pro team.

do you give access to educational opportunities to these players? if so, why? is the traditional 4 years of eligibility rule still relevant if these athletes are no longer students? If so, would that stand up in court?

 

[cbpitt2]

Spring games were always dumb. Always were more of a publicity stunt to get obsessed donors onto campus to spend money.

I do enjoy all of the scheming that our fan base is doing to try to prevent the insanity that has taken over college football. It's kind of cute but pointless.

No worries about Pitt doing that since Pitt's spring and football games aren't on campus thereby eliminating visits by obsessed donors.

 

[DruidTM]

Since Pickett and Maddox are coaching the game this year I guess the answer is no… Pitt won’t be next?

 

[AllegeneeGenacGenac]

why would a university want to affiliate their name/branding to a semi pro club sport team under this scenario? The players arent athletes, basically have nothing to do with the school under this scenario, so why would a school fund the stadium, locker room, university faciities and have the games on their campus for what is basically a semi pro team.

do you give access to educational opportunities to these players? if so, why? is the traditional 4 years of eligibility rule still relevant if these athletes are no longer students? If so, would that stand up in court?

Nearly every question you have here is already applicable to the status quo. If you think P4 players today (or any time in our lifetimes generally) are there to play school or interact with the "regular" student body population, I have some news for you.

And the answer to your question is the same as the answer to every question related to the current mess that college athletics has turned into: $$$$$

 

[pittdan77]

There's actually nothing wrong with pandering to obsessed donors who are willing to give.

I went to an OSU spring game some years back with a buddy, and it was a lot of fun. I don't remember the attendance, but it had to be well over 50K. And they are swimming in cash.

Absolutely nothing wrong with pandering to donors from the school's vantage point.

 

[pafootballguy]

If you were going to the spring game for the game you already ****ed up but getting to tailgate in April is always fun.