Movie OT: Arrival (spoilers)

[KiwiJeff]

So I saw this movie was largely considered a good to great movie. I watched it last night and had no idea what happened. She learned their language then could see the future? That makes no sense. I get sci fi doesn't have to make sense, I mean in Star Trek every alien spoke English with little to no accent while Chekov had a Russian accent.

Then I go to Rotten Tomatoes to figure out what the hubbub is and one review said "Arrival is an amazing film that is cautionary for all Americans". Then I think, oh great, another "preachy movie from Hollywood on how we should all think. But I still don't get it. If their was a social message in there, I didn't see it. Was the message she didn't abort her baby even though it would die of cancer? No can't be, Hollywood is pro abortion. So what were Americans to learn from that? Why was this movie great?

As an aside, I mourn the days where movies told stories that didn't have a preachy social undertone to it. Many movies today seem that they try to outdo each other seeing who can be the most preachy. That's a shame that we lost the ability to tell great stories in movies versus just being a political hack. I guess that must be the only way to make it any more in Hollywood.

 

[HailtoPitt]

I'm not sure I can recall a preachy social undertone" to the Arrival. It was a well crafted sci fi movie reminding my a bit of movies like Close Encounters.

 

[Swervin27]

As an aside, I mourn the days where movies told stories that didn't have a preachy social undertone to it. .

that is why I spend my evenings, after I put my kids to bed, watching TeenWolf and three's company reruns. no hidden messages (outside of telling us to NEVER go on a date with two girls at the same time), just pure entertainment.

 

[Ski11585]

Movies have always been social commentary. Frankly, I'd find media boring if it didn't try to have an impact on society. To think otherwise is ignoring reality. Sure, there have been, and still are mindless shows and songs and films. But there have also been shows that speak to the times in which they're made.

 

[Swervin27]

Movies have always been social commentary. Frankly, I'd find media boring if it didn't try to have an impact on society. To think otherwise is ignoring reality. Sure, there have been, and still are mindless shows and songs and films. But there have also been shows that speak to the times in which they're made.

I think the argument would be, how much is enough, how much is too much? Obviously the last election has been very polarizing, recent social agendas have been all over the news and we are seeing it spill over too much in our movies.. A few threads on here are relevant to the topic. we had one on espn's demise and a lot believe it was the push to be more political that was a big reason for their failures. Sometimes less is more..

It's ok to have a movie now and then that covers the political cause of the day, I mean I enjoyed Denzel holding up an ER trying to get his kid a heart despite having no insurance despite despising Obamacare but the pure volume of these shows and movies is overkill.

call me crazy but sometimes people turn on sports network to watch sports, sometimes people go see a Sci - Fi movie to see aliens in the future, sometimes people don't want to talk about political topics. not a crazy thought.

 

[Ski11585]

I think the argument would be, how much is enough, how much is too much? Obviously the last election has been very polarizing, recent social agendas have been all over the news and we are seeing it spill over too much in our movies.. A few threads on here are relevant to the topic. we had one on espn's demise and a lot believe it was the push to be more political that was a big reason for their failures. Sometimes less is more..

It's ok to have a movie now and then that covers the political cause of the day, I mean I enjoyed Denzel holding up an ER trying to get his kid a heart despite having no insurance despite despising Obamacare but the pure volume of these shows and movies is overkill.

call me crazy but sometimes people turn on sports network to watch sports, sometimes people go see a Sci - Fi movie to see aliens in the future, sometimes people don't want to talk about political topics. not a crazy thought.

And I get it. But my point is that there have ALWAYS been those social messages encoded in those different things. Sure, perhaps there isn't a lot of social commentary in Ridley Scott's original Alien. But there certainly is in Frank Herbert's Dune.

 

[upj87]

So I saw this movie was largely considered a good to great movie. I watched it last night and had no idea what happened. She learned their language then could see the future? That makes no sense. I get sci fi doesn't have to make sense, I mean in Star Trek every alien spoke English with little to no accent while Chekov had a Russian accent.

Then I go to Rotten Tomatoes to figure out what the hubbub is and one review said "Arrival is an amazing film that is cautionary for all Americans". Then I think, oh great, another "preachy movie from Hollywood on how we should all think. But I still don't get it. If their was a social message in there, I didn't see it. Was the message she didn't abort her baby even though it would die of cancer? No can't be, Hollywood is pro abortion. So what were Americans to learn from that? Why was this movie great?

As an aside, I mourn the days where movies told stories that didn't have a preachy social undertone to it. Many movies today seem that they try to outdo each other seeing who can be the most preachy. That's a shame that we lost the ability to tell great stories in movies versus just being a political hack. I guess that must be the only way to make it any more in Hollywood.

wait, there is actually a non-Marvel movie out?

 

[upj87]

And I get it. But my point is that there have ALWAYS been those social messages encoded in those different things. Sure, perhaps there isn't a lot of social commentary in Ridley Scott's original Alien. But there certainly is in Frank Herbert's Dune.

thus Alien is cool and Dune sucks...man, when that thing pops out of his stomach, that's some fine film making there.. blowed it up real good...

 

[KiwiJeff]

thus Alien is cool and Dune sucks...man, when that thing pops out of his stomach, that's some fine film making there.. blowed it up real good...

Yeah, maybe it just goes over my head, but great movies like Godfather told a great story. I guess the social story is either don't become a mobster or Italians are mobsters. I just liked the story though. To suggest non-preachy movies are mindless was silly of him.

 

[KiwiJeff]

I'm not sure I can recall a preachy social undertone" to the Arrival. It was a well crafted sci fi movie reminding my a bit of movies like Close Encounters.

Why was it well crafted? She could see the future because of knowing their language? Does that mean I'll love Jerry Lewis if I learn French?

 

[KiwiJeff]

And I get it. But my point is that there have ALWAYS been those social messages encoded in those different things. Sure, perhaps there isn't a lot of social commentary in Ridley Scott's original Alien. But there certainly is in Frank Herbert's Dune.

That's fine, and I actually agree. Many films had a social message in the past. But movies like Godfather and Sophie's Choice were great stories that didn't come off as preachy.

But I didn't find Arrival preachy at all, but many reviews said it has a great social message, and one review in particular said it was a cautionary tale to all Americans. What was the caution? Maybe I just need to be hit in the face with a fish to see it this time.

 

[KiwiJeff]

thus Alien is cool and Dune sucks...man, when that thing pops out of his stomach, that's some fine film making there.. blowed it up real good...

Just like Private Ryan was much better than A Thin Red Line.

 

[KiwiJeff]

And I get it. But my point is that there have ALWAYS been those social messages encoded in those different things. Sure, perhaps there isn't a lot of social commentary in Ridley Scott's original Alien. But there certainly is in Frank Herbert's Dune.

My favorite preachy movie is the old Grapes of Wrath movie.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Three's company? We may need your man card back

that is why I spend my evenings, after I put my kids to bed, watching TeenWolf and three's company reruns. no hidden messages (outside of telling us to NEVER go on a date with two girls at the same time), just pure entertainment.

 

[Ski11585]

That's fine, and I actually agree. Many films had a social message in the past. But movies like Godfather and Sophie's Choice were great stories that didn't come off as preachy.

But I didn't find Arrival preachy at all, but many reviews said it has a great social message, and one review in particular said it was a cautionary tale to all Americans. What was the caution? Maybe I just need to be hit in the face with a fish to see it this time.

Right, but a lot of these things are "preachy" only if you choose to look for it. Had you not read the review, you'd never have considered that angle. I'm sure plenty of folks did. How you consume media is up to you.

 

[Swervin27]

Just like Private Ryan was much better than A Thin Red Line.

I may be the only person on this planet to like "A thin red line." Slow as malasses but that's sort of the point. more poetic than watching Tom Hanks and Vin Diesel kill germans..

 

[KiwiJeff]

Right, but a lot of these things are "preachy" only if you choose to look for it. Had you not read the review, you'd never have considered that angle. I'm sure plenty of folks did. How you consume media is up to you.

I didn't find it preachy at all, that's why I am asking. The review said it had a great social message that I apparently didn't catch and I am hoping someone who saw it can tell me what it was. I just thought the movie was dumb on its own merit.

 

[Swervin27]

Right, but a lot of these things are "preachy" only if you choose to look for it. Had you not read the review, you'd never have considered that angle. I'm sure plenty of folks did. How you consume media is up to you.

I agree with this, like I said, I actually liked John Q despite believing universal healthcare is a bad idea... Heck, I even watched happy feet with my kids and I used to work for an oil/gas company..

last samurai with tom cruise is a good movie and that is filled with about 4 or 5 Hollywood-leftist political messages.. sometimes you just got to chalk it up to Hollywood being what they are and just enjoying the movie without thinking too deeply about it. some gratuitous nudity helps

 

[pittzap]

I think the argument would be, how much is enough, how much is too much? Obviously the last election has been very polarizing, recent social agendas have been all over the news and we are seeing it spill over too much in our movies.. A few threads on here are relevant to the topic. we had one on espn's demise and a lot believe it was the push to be more political that was a big reason for their failures. Sometimes less is more..

It's ok to have a movie now and then that covers the political cause of the day, I mean I enjoyed Denzel holding up an ER trying to get his kid a heart despite having no insurance despite despising Obamacare but the pure volume of these shows and movies is overkill.

call me crazy but sometimes people turn on sports network to watch sports, sometimes people go see a Sci - Fi movie to see aliens in the future, sometimes people don't want to talk about political topics. not a crazy thought.

Yeah, some people want to watch movies, shows, comedians, etc. to escape from everyday crap. In fact, I just saw an interview clip with the comedian, Sabastian Maniscalco. They asked why he veers away from politics and he said the same thing. People want to laugh at a comedy show. If you get political, it already alienates and maybe upsets half your audience.

I get that comedy shows are different from movies. But people don't want every movie to have something shoved at them that is political. Enough people these days think they are PoliSci majors because they complained about Hillary or Trump and Googled a few things. Sometimes you want to watch Road House, to see some guys get their a$$ kicked and hot chicks.

 

[KiwiJeff]

I agree with this, like I said, I actually liked John Q despite believing universal healthcare is a bad idea... Heck, I even watched happy feet with my kids and I used to work for an oil/gas company..

last samurai with tom cruise is a good movie and that is filled with about 4 or 5 Hollywood-leftist political messages.. sometimes you just got to chalk it up to Hollywood being what they are and just enjoying the movie without thinking too deeply about it. some gratuitous nudity helps

I didn't even see any major political messages in Last Samurai, but I wasn't looking for them. I don't scrutinize movies for them, I will notice them if they stand out. If the message being pushed outweighs the goodness of the movie, I'll turn it off.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Why was it well crafted? She could see the future because of knowing their language? Does that mean I'll love Jerry Lewis if I learn French?

Correct on both.

 

[Swervin27]

I didn't even see any major political messages in Last Samurai, but I wasn't looking for them. I don't scrutinize movies for them, I will notice them if they stand out. If the message being pushed outweighs the goodness of the movie, I'll turn it off.

they are there but you got to look for them.. I really liked that movie, does drag on a bit but a lot of those Tom Cruise "epic" style movies do..

 

[upj87]

View embedded media

ah, the buddies of the guy that rigged the BC hoops games...

 

[Swervin27]

ah, the guy that rigged the BC hoops games...

30-30 special on that was fantastic. that BC point shaving thing only came up by a fluke. he was busted by fbi, talking to them and mentioned it almost in passing and I think the FBI director was a BC guy and started asking questions about it..

plus, a lot of Pittsburgh references in it as well.

 

[upj87]

they are there but you got to look for them.. I really liked that movie, does drag on a bit but a lot of those Tom Cruise "epic" style movies do..

liked the one where he kept living the same day over and over again fighting the aliens. No hidden message and he blowed em up real good in the end.

 

[Swervin27]

liked the one where he kept living the same day over and over again fighting the aliens. No hidden message and he blowed up real good in the end.

that damn movie, I watched it about 30 times and every time, I didnt' watch the end, had to do something or something came up. got so annoyed because I had to see how it ended..

Im not an Emily Blunt fan but there is a scene when she is doing military training, she's on ground, all sweaty and does this back arch thing and damn if it's not a ridiculously fantastic 3 second scene.. good for that goof ball in "the office" for getting her..

pic below doesn't do it justice

 

[HailtoPitt]

 

[KiwiJeff]

they are there but you got to look for them.. I really liked that movie, does drag on a bit but a lot of those Tom Cruise "epic" style movies do..

My co-worker just explained, you were confused all movie why she was having flashbacks, then at the end you find out they were flash forwards. I get that now and I guess I like it slightly better. I still find it ridiculous to think learning a language enables you to do something like see the future, and I still don't get what social message was in there. I actually don't think it's me the one looking for social messages in everything, I think Hollywood critics do. "What a fine example of........we all can learn from". I learned squat from that movie.

 

[Swervin27]

My man.. I pretend she is looking at me..

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Why was it well crafted? She could see the future because of knowing their language? Does that mean I'll love Jerry Lewis if I learn French?

Seriously kiwi?

Their language has no beginning or end- because they don't have time as a reference. Hence the circles.
When she learns and begins to understand how they communicate it's because her own brain has to reprogram to grasp it.(time as a circle not as linear)

The whole point is ultimately that although she sees all the tragedy in the future and personal pain it causes her... she chooses to make the same same decisions (husband, kid, going into the space ship, etc)

And they came to earth to teach some humans this language and concept because they know they will need the humans help in the future

Literally they explained it in the movie.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Right, but a lot of these things are "preachy" only if you choose to look for it. Had you not read the review, you'd never have considered that angle. I'm sure plenty of folks did. How you consume media is up to you.

It's a shame, people do this so much nowadays instead of just enjoying being entertained. I loved State Of Grace, I don't love Sean Penn's politics, I never watched that movie looking for hidden messages in regards to Penn's politics. Some I guess are over the top in its political message.................but..............oh what the ****, I don't care. The Pens won Game 1 of the Cap series. All is cool.

 

[pitt-girl]

I didn't find it preachy at all, that's why I am asking. The review said it had a great social message that I apparently didn't catch and I am hoping someone who saw it can tell me what it was. I just thought the movie was dumb on its own merit.

Kiwi - I saw this movie with my husband and one of my son's. I liked it much more than them. But I'll admit it took watching it a second time for me to fully understand what was happening (probably not a good thing for any movie). After watching it a second time though, I began to understand that it is really a very delicate movie - not so much sic-fi, but a more human experience kind of thing.

Is it preachy? Kind of, only in the sense that sometimes it's helpful to step back and try to understand something that is foreign to us as opposed to immediately getting defensive. It wasn't preachy at all IMHO in the underlying story about love and families - meaning that even knowing what would happen to her child, Amy Adams character still chose to go ahead because the joy of having that child in her life trumped the sorrow. Kind of like decisions a lot of us make in smaller ways every day.

It's a shame that bonus footage for DVD's aren't available publicly but only if you purchase it. The bonus footage for this movie did a masterful job of breaking down the main components of the movie including communication via language and what a big part that plays in every society.

Having said that, it isn't a movie for everyone. Most certainly not for those who wanted more of an "Edge of Tomorrow" kind of experience (another great flick btw). Like I said it really is quite subtle.

 

[pitt-girl]

Just like Private Ryan was much better than A Thin Red Line.

Digressing completely, but talking about war movies, I am completely stoked about "Dunkirk" coming out this summer. Obviously a great story but helmed by Christopher Nolan? Must see.

 

[pitt-girl]

Seriously kiwi?

Their language has no beginning or end- because they don't have time as a reference. Hence the circles.
When she learns and begins to understand how they communicate it's because her own brain has to reprogram to grasp it.(time as a circle not as linear)

The whole point is ultimately that although she sees all the tragedy in the future and personal pain it causes her... she chooses to make the same same decisions (husband, kid, going into the space ship, etc)

And they came to earth to teach some humans this language and concept because they know they will need the humans help in the future

Literally they explained it in the movie.

Souf I can understand that the movie was a bit hard to grasp. Some like you got it right away, for me, it took 2 times. I liked it a lot first viewing but all the pieces snapped into place the second and I loved it. Probably one of my top 5 movies from last year.

 

[KiwiJeff]

Seriously kiwi?

Their language has no beginning or end- because they don't have time as a reference. Hence the circles.
When she learns and begins to understand how they communicate it's because her own brain has to reprogram to grasp it.(time as a circle not as linear)

The whole point is ultimately that although she sees all the tragedy in the future and personal pain it causes her... she chooses to make the same same decisions (husband, kid, going into the space ship, etc)

And they came to earth to teach some humans this language and concept because they know they will need the humans help in the future

Literally they explained it in the movie.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. But then again, you are very adept at speaking in circles. Now THAT was well crafted.

 

[magadog]

I'm not sure I can recall a preachy social undertone" to the Arrival. It was a well crafted sci fi movie reminding my a bit of movies like Close Encounters.

Why was it well crafted? She could see the future because of knowing their language? Does that mean I'll love Jerry Lewis if I learn French?

Mais les films de jerry lewis sont drôles

 

[KiwiJeff]

Mais les films de jerry lewis sont drôles

Mais oui!

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

Sci-fi as a genre is renowned for social commentary. It's difficult to name all-time sci-fi flicks not steeped in social commentary.

Blade Runner
District 9
Hunger Games
Close Encounters
Terminator
Matrix
Day The Earth Stood Still
Clockwork Orange
Brazil
Children Of Men
Metropolis
Solaris
Minority Report
WALL-E
Ex Machina
Eternal Sunshine
Sunshine
RoboCop
Moon
Dark City

There's many more... Alien has distinct commentary as well. Remember the real villains that know more all the while are an android and the mega computer he reports that deceive the crew and know what's there.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Just like Private Ryan was much better than A Thin Red Line.

A Thin Red Line is the superior war movie. In fact, much better imo. If it weren't for John Travolta I might consider it the top war based movie ever.

 

[raleighpanther]

So I saw this movie was largely considered a good to great movie. I watched it last night and had no idea what happened. She learned their language then could see the future? That makes no sense. I get sci fi doesn't have to make sense, I mean in Star Trek every alien spoke English with little to no accent while Chekov had a Russian accent.

Then I go to Rotten Tomatoes to figure out what the hubbub is and one review said "Arrival is an amazing film that is cautionary for all Americans". Then I think, oh great, another "preachy movie from Hollywood on how we should all think. But I still don't get it. If their was a social message in there, I didn't see it. Was the message she didn't abort her baby even though it would die of cancer? No can't be, Hollywood is pro abortion. So what were Americans to learn from that? Why was this movie great?

As an aside, I mourn the days where movies told stories that didn't have a preachy social undertone to it. Many movies today seem that they try to outdo each other seeing who can be the most preachy. That's a shame that we lost the ability to tell great stories in movies versus just being a political hack. I guess that must be the only way to make it any more in Hollywood.

If you accept the premise "Every act is a political act," it is pointless to wish that films won't be political. Cartoons are political; comedy is political, etc.

A good film will have subtle political messages that we will agree with, disagree with, and most importantly, make us uncomfortable and have to think about things in a new light.

Personally, I found the way Arrival was filmed was pretentious. I much prefer slow, thoughtful movies to action pictures, but this just bored me. Too much time spent watching actors standing, staring in awe, etc.