Narduzzi Recruiting Perspective

[Revenge Of The Noise]

We cheated!! For the 1 millionth time.

And we should again! For the trillionth time.

Like we did then, specifically. Because we are doing it now too. Corners are still being cut. Elicit things are still given. We just do it half assed now. Actually, more like quarter-assed What good does that do for anyone?

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

Probably because the things that mattered in recruiting then matter a lot less now. If you ever expect Pitt to get back to the levels of 1976, you will continually be disappointed

Money looks pretty much the same. I guess some presidents heads are a little bigger now.

Drugs of choice might differ now.

Hot cars are either better or worse now depending on your protective.

And women seem hotter now than then, probably due to the hot black yoga pants they all wear (had to have been invented by a hetero dude...a hero to us all).

Free tech a lot better now than the "hi fis" and console tvs.

Otherwise, the things recruits want are pretty much the same.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Probably because the things that mattered in recruiting then matter a lot less now. If you ever expect Pitt to get back to the levels of 1976, you will continually be disappointed

That is exactly what was said in the late 1960s and very early 1970s. Just substitute "1937" for 1976 in this argument.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

That is exactly what was said in the late 1960s and very early 1970s. Just substitute "1937" for 1976 in this argument.

But, to be fair, it was 39 years between those two championship seasons and we are now about to start our 41st season since 1976 and it is 34-35 seasons since we were a legit contender for a National Championship. We seem to be headed in the direction of the latter. However, it remains to be seen if we can move from being around a top 25-35-ish team to a top 10-15-ish team with the possibility of more in a given season "should the stars allign."

 

[pittdan77]

Pitt cheated more (pretty much everyone did/remember SMU?) but HS football was better in Western PA in the 70's and 80's and Pitt benefitted from that. PSU as well. I recall playing against at least one or two guys that went D1 just about every Friday. We had four. Also remember the 5-Star recruiting camp at Mt Lebo. Was packed with incredible talent and a lot of D1 coaches scouted that camp.

 

[TD_istheman]

Excuses. WVU with NO KIDS IN THEIR STATE are out working us. It's ok to be a fan and honest as well

 

[DiehardPanther]

Excuses. WVU with NO KIDS IN THEIR STATE are out working us. It's ok to be a fan and honest as well

Stop the clown show. Narduzzi has recruited better than WV the last 2 years. The recruiting for this year is not done.

 

[BBG65]

In the ACC Coastal, the only teams that have really out-recruited Pitt are Va. Tech and Miami. The problem is that Pitt seems to be trending down under Narduzzi.

 

[Pizzaboy1]

Diehard according to the recruiting experts Narduzzi hasn't out recruited WVU the last two years! I'd say it was a toss up between the two.Holgy hasn't set the world on fire at WVU by any means and neither has Narduzzi.Pitt and WVU unfortunately are the middle of the pack when it comes to recruiting

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

The problem is that Pitt seems to be trending down under Narduzzi.

Please explain the basis for this assessment.

 

[Swervin27]

Please explain the basis for this assessment.

you really need this explained to you? Here, see if this is clear enough.

2016 Pittsburgh Football
Commitment List


Team Recruiting Rank
29



2017 Pittsburgh Football
Commitment List

[URL='https://rivals.com/team_rankings/2017']Team Recruiting Rank
38

2018 Pittsburgh Football
Commitment List


Team Recruiting Rank
60
[/URL]

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Are you really this myopic?

1) The player rankings for 2018 aren't complete yet like in the other years you posted.

2) 2018 recruiting isn't over yet.

3) Class size plays major roll in the team rankings

4) The average rivals rating of the players in each of those classes is basically the same.

So, yeah please explain it to me.

 

[DiehardPanther]

Diehard according to the recruiting experts Narduzzi hasn't out recruited WVU the last two years! I'd say it was a toss up between the two.Holgy hasn't set the world on fire at WVU by any means and neither has Narduzzi.Pitt and WVU unfortunately are the middle of the pack when it comes to recruiting

2 years ago - Pitt was better. All the services agreed.
Last Year - The majority of the services said Pitt was better.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Seems like he recruits pretty much at about average for what the other Pitt coaches have done.

YR/Avg Stars

06 - 3.04
07 - 3.04
08 - 3.16
09 - 2.95
10 - 3.13 (Transition year)
11 - 2.67 (Transition year)
12 - 3.13
13 - 2.81
14 - 3.0
15 - 2.8 (Transition year)
16 - 3.08
17 - 3.04

 

[H2P333]

Seems like he recruits pretty much at about average for what the other Pitt coaches have done.

YR/Avg Stars

06 - 3.04
07 - 3.04
08 - 3.16
09 - 2.95
10 - 3.13 (Transition year)
11 - 2.67 (Transition year)
12 - 3.13
13 - 2.81
14 - 3.0
15 - 2.8 (Transition year)
16 - 3.08
17 - 3.04

Give coach Narduzzi a full 4 years with his and players and he easily pushes this 3.04 to 3.74 or greatwr. It takes time but he has a keen eye for talent above and beyond any other coaches he is recoruiting against. He is a better coach than most in ACC and most in Big Ten save for urban Meyer who is always going to get it done with his reputation and facilities and Recent NFL drawing power of. Ohio State. We can't compete in star power against the likes of OSU, Bama, Clemson (for now), ND, and Michigan but outside of that coach can and will produce on the recruiting field.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Seems like he recruits pretty much at about average for what the other Pitt coaches have done.

YR/Avg Stars

06 - 3.04
07 - 3.04
08 - 3.16
09 - 2.95
10 - 3.13 (Transition year)
11 - 2.67 (Transition year)
12 - 3.13
13 - 2.81
14 - 3.0
15 - 2.8 (Transition year)
16 - 3.08
17 - 3.04

If you get even more granular with the rivals rating which is more indicative of the recruit than the star value, the differences are less. A 5.7 rating is a three star, but a 5.8 is a 4 star. Whereas a 5.5 is also a 3 star and a 6.0 is still a 4 star.

Narduzzi's classes have averaged:
2016 - 5.6
2017 - 5.58
2018 - 5.59 (at this point)

PC's classes were:
2015 - 5.56 (transition)
2014 - 5.54
2013 - 5.54

But, as is always the case, we'll really find out when they step on the field.

 

[cashisking884]

Are you really this myopic?

1) The player rankings for 2018 aren't complete yet like in the other years you posted.

2) 2018 recruiting isn't over yet.

3) Class size plays major roll in the team rankings

4) The average rivals rating of the players in each of those classes is basically the same.

So, yeah please explain it to me.

Would be interested in looking at the Pitt class average relative to other Coastal classes.
Recruiting is based on two things:

1. How is your recruiting going in a vacuum?

2. How is your recruiting going relative to the teams you have to play going forward? Meaning, if team A's recruiting improved incrementally or stayed the same, but team B's recruiting improved significantly, then one could say recruiting is trending down, because college football isn't played in a vacuum.

If Miami's and VT's and UNC's and even say Duke's recruiting is improving, thereby increasing the talent gap or closing it, depending on where Pitt is relative to the team, that would be a cause for a concern I think.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Would be interested in looking at the Pitt class average relative to other Coastal classes.
Recruiting is based on two things:

1. How is your recruiting going in a vacuum?

2. How is your recruiting going relative to the teams you have to play going forward? Meaning, if team A's recruiting improved incrementally or stayed the same, but team B's recruiting improved significantly, then one could say recruiting is trending down, because college football isn't played in a vacuum.

If Miami's and VT's and UNC's and even say Duke's recruiting is improving, thereby increasing the talent gap or closing it, depending on where Pitt is relative to the team, that would be a cause for a concern I think.

What these rankings can never account for is the assumption that all teams are fulfilling all their position needs adequately--not being overly excellent in stars or numerical ratings at certain positions and not others or having recruited too few OL or DL or LBs or too few whatever. These kinds of things are a built in inaccuracies in the entire system. It also doesn't account for transfers in (or out) of players with high ratings from high school. It also has no way of measuring whether one coach vs another has a better eye for potential (i.e., better at picking 3-stars who turn out to have 4 or 5 star level careers).

Nevertheless, it s the only system we have to use and as a general rule gives a very rough correlation with outcomes.

 

[H2Pittisit]

That is exactly what was said in the late 1960s and very early 1970s. Just substitute "1937" for 1976 in this argument.

So wrong I don't even know where to begin. You really social Media and Television haven't had any effect? There were not huge stadiums, TV deals. Most recruits probably didn't even know what Pitt was like on game day. Recruits didn't spend their time DM'ing each other. There are Huge differences right now and much larger than there were between the 30s and 70s

 

[cashisking884]

What these rankings can never account for is the assumption that all teams are fulfilling all their position needs adequately--not being overly excellent in stars or numerical ratings at certain positions and not others or having recruited too few OL or DL or LBs or too few whatever. These kinds of things are a built in inaccuracies in the entire system. It also doesn't account for transfers in (or out) of players with high ratings from high school. It also has no way of measuring whether one coach vs another has a better eye for potential (i.e., better at picking 3-stars who turn out to have 4 or 5 star level careers).

Nevertheless, it s the only system we have to use and as a general rule gives a very rough correlation with outcomes.

I wouldn't even say "very rough" correlation. The correlation is so good there are very few outliers. Which is why the "needs" argument just doesn't hold up. If the correlation wasn't so good, that might be true. But over any given 4 year cycle, it's going to be correct. We have enough recruiting ranking studies to show us that.

 

[TD_istheman]

My point was, don't complain or use Pittsburgh has less people , no football here anymore , then go to WVU, where they don't have 5 D 1 players a year , and they seem to do as well as us with absolutely nothing to pick close to home. Statement stands and is true

 

[Jpripper88]

Give coach Narduzzi a full 4 years with his and players and he easily pushes this 3.04 to 3.74 or greatwr. It takes time but he has a keen eye for talent above and beyond any other coaches he is recoruiting against. He is a better coach than most in ACC and most in Big Ten save for urban Meyer who is always going to get it done with his reputation and facilities and Recent NFL drawing power of. Ohio State. We can't compete in star power against the likes of OSU, Bama, Clemson (for now), ND, and Michigan but outside of that coach can and will produce on the recruiting field.

You are literally an insane person or complete troll. 3.74 would put us 3rd in average stars in last year's class.

You need to either get a job as HCPN personal PR man or his HJ assistant because this kind of support is utterly insane

 

[jason21psu]

Would be interested in looking at the Pitt class average relative to other Coastal classes.
Recruiting is based on two things:

1. How is your recruiting going in a vacuum?

2. How is your recruiting going relative to the teams you have to play going forward? Meaning, if team A's recruiting improved incrementally or stayed the same, but team B's recruiting improved significantly, then one could say recruiting is trending down, because college football isn't played in a vacuum.

If Miami's and VT's and UNC's and even say Duke's recruiting is improving, thereby increasing the talent gap or closing it, depending on where Pitt is relative to the team, that would be a cause for a concern I think.

The 247 composite scores for the ACC since 2013 with the obvious caveat that 2018 is incomplete. See if you can guess the teams

ACC Coastal:


ACC Atlantic:

 

[DiehardPanther]

The 247 composite scores for the ACC since 2013 with the obvious caveat that 2018 is incomplete. See if you can guess the teams

ACC Coastal:


ACC Atlantic:

Why does a PS fan care so much about Pitt and the ACC?

 

[jason21psu]

Why does a PS fan care so much about Pitt and the ACC?

I care some (we do play you 2 more years after this season) but mostly I like data and cashisking posed the question of how recruiting is compared to ACC peers so I whipped up a spreadsheet. You should see my B1G recruiting spreadsheet

 

[TD_istheman]

You are literally an insane person or complete troll. 3.74 would put us 3rd in average stars in last year's class.

You need to either get a job as HCPN personal PR man or his HJ assistant because this kind of support is utterly insane

He is one of those Pirate defenders and Nutting , so there is that

 

[TD_istheman]

Duzz talks about winning the ACC, so that is the standard. If he thinks he can get it done with the 12th rated class in he conference , well then good for him. He will be judged on wins and losses , and 8-4 is nothing to write home about to be honest.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Dooz is about as charismatic as they come, and even more so with his team than with the media. Have you paid attention to how he interacts with his players and the kids he's recruiting?

His results are open to debate, but lack of charisma is not an issue.

Now the last guy, on the other hand.....

That lump went 10-3 last year

 

[DiehardPanther]

That lump went 10-3 last year

PN has a better record at Pitt than PC. The only thing that matters.

 

[cbpitt2]

Diehard according to the recruiting experts Narduzzi hasn't out recruited WVU the last two years! I'd say it was a toss up between the two.Holgy hasn't set the world on fire at WVU by any means and neither has Narduzzi.Pitt and WVU unfortunately are the middle of the pack when it comes to recruiting

Where do you think it's easier to recruit Pitt or West Virginia? Narduzzi should be out recruiting Holgy. Pitt should always out recruit West Virginia.

 

[joeydavid]

That lump plays an incredibly soft schedule with usually 9 built in wins.

That lump went 10-3 last year

 

[Pizzaboy1]

CB what do you think the big drawing points are that Narduzzi has over Holgersen?Both coaches have a few positives and both have negatives to deal with!

 

[RaleighPittFan]

CB what do you think the big drawing points are that Narduzzi has over Holgersen?Both coaches have a few positives and both have negatives to deal with!

Coach Narduzzi's not a drunk. That's a positive.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Technology and media have completely changed the recruiting landscape forever. It lends itself to the rich getting richer as diamonds in the rough are fewer and fewer. Camps have become a smorgasboard for the better programs where only a handful of teams get to select from the best of the best . National media exposure is phenomenal for the top schools . I remember reading about the recruitment of Shane Conlan and how little exposure there was even in the early 80's. Now he would be a 4star with bama, osu and everybody else beating on his door. Look at James Connor and how he almost didn't even have the resources to camp at Pitt. What if he was able to hit all the regional rivals,scout, etc camps ? He may have wound up a 4 star with an all expenses paid official visit to Southern Cal and others. He may have still wound up at Pitt but definitely more competition. Now if you go early 70's there are some obvious things like Johnny Majors 73 class with over 70 recruits including Dorsett . Also , look at things like the espn 30for30 on Marcus Dupree and how Barry Switzer talks about buying dupree's mom a new place. I'm sure there is plenty of "stuff" that still goes on but social media/internet have definitely made things like that a little trickier in todays world. People LOVE to tell on other people and what better place than twitter.
http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/05/hall_of_famer_shane_conlan_wan.html

There's still plenty of diamonds in the rough. Look at these three UNC players that were drafted back in April:

- Mitch Trubisky, 3*** QB from Mentor, OH (1st Rd pick, #2 overall - Chicago). He was from tOSU's perennial hotbed of talent, the greater Cleveland area, and yet tOSU barely gave him a look until way too late in the process. UNC was the only school to consistently recruit him hard from early on and he stayed committed to the Heels.
- Ryan Switzer, 3*** TB from Charleston, WV (4th Rd pick, #133 overall - Dallas). Ryan was another 3*** who was very lightly recruited by his in-state school West Virginia. Fedora and staff were on him from the start and saw him as a slot receiver instead of a tailback. Set the UNC record for most-ever receptions and receiving yards. Also had 7 career punt returns for TDs (sorry!)
- Mack Hollins N/R walk-on WR from Rockville, Maryland (4th Rd pick, #118 overall - Philadelphia). Hollins was a walk-on and ended up being one of the best receivers and special teams players in UNC history as well as becoming team captain. He is poised to potentially win a starting job with the Eagles this fall as a rookie.

So the diamonds in the rough are still out there a-plenty, even with all the modern technology of 2017.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Seems like he recruits pretty much at about average for what the other Pitt coaches have done.

YR/Avg Stars

06 - 3.04
07 - 3.04
08 - 3.16
09 - 2.95
10 - 3.13 (Transition year)
11 - 2.67 (Transition year)
12 - 3.13
13 - 2.81
14 - 3.0
15 - 2.8 (Transition year)
16 - 3.08
17 - 3.04

Which equals 7-6 and 8-5 seasons. We are what we are.

 

[cbpitt2]

CB what do you think the big drawing points are that Narduzzi has over Holgersen?Both coaches have a few positives and both have negatives to deal with!

Good one Raleigh. LOL.

- Better education from a much higher rated university. That should be point #1. That would matter to an intelligent kid. I would hammer this home over and over and over.
- Play in the ACC or Big 12? The Big 12 could implode at some point.
- Far greater history of Pitt players in the NFL versus WVU.
- Pittsburgh vs. Morgantown. You want the amenities and benefits of playing and going to school in a city that has everything or be in a much smaller city as Morgantown?

- I would say play for a defensive coach in Narduzzi over a passing offensive-minded coach in Holgy but Pitt's defense has been terrible the past two years and with a month to prepare for their bowl opponents, Narduzzi couldn't come up with a defense to stop Navy or Northwestern, so I'm not sold yet. Narduzzi's defense might have worked in the passing quarterback-challenged Big 10 but it hasn't in the ACC.

The biggest thing WVU has going for it is their stadium is full most games and has a much better game day atmosphere with their on-campus stadium on the hill. On a football Saturday in West Virginia, Morgantown is the place to be in the entire state as they are the state's football team. Pitt doesn't even have its own stadium. That would be WVU's selling point.

 

[Cathedral Lawn Frisbee]

butt hurt from 42-39

SPU cares so much for footballing! Pitt enjoys it but has perspective. Drives nits crazy after losing to Pitt!

I care some (we do play you 2 more years after this season) but mostly I like data and cashisking posed the question of how recruiting is compared to ACC peers so I whipped up a spreadsheet. You should see my B1G recruiting spreadsheet

 

[cashisking884]

There's still plenty of diamonds in the rough. Look at these three UNC players that were drafted back in April:

- Mitch Trubisky, 3*** QB from Mentor, OH (1st Rd pick, #2 overall - Chicago). He was from tOSU's perennial hotbed of talent, the greater Cleveland area, and yet tOSU barely gave him a look until way too late in the process. UNC was the only school to consistently recruit him hard from early on and he stayed committed to the Heels.


So the diamonds in the rough are still out there a-plenty, even with all the modern technology of 2017.

Trubisky was a composite 4 star, and was high as a 95 on 247. He had offers from Alabama, Tenn., and Ohio State. He wasn't a diamond in the rough.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Trubisky was a composite 4 star, and was high as a 95 on 247. He had offers from Alabama, Tenn., and Ohio State. He wasn't a diamond in the rough.

He was a 3*** on Rivals, and the Bama and Tennessee offer came way let in the process. But okay. Take him out if you want. My other two examples still prove my point.

Especially Hollins. Unranked walk-on to front line starter to 4th round draft pick.

 

[Jpripper88]

He was a 3*** on Rivals, and the Bama and Tennessee offer came way let in the process. But okay. Take him out if you want. My other two examples still prove my point.

Especially Hollins. Unranked walk-on to front line starter to 4th round draft pick.

Yeah, but pretty much everyone has, at least, 2-3 players who were 3 stars or lower and were major contributors. We have Quadree Henderson and Brian O'Neil, who are better players and will be higher draft picks.